'North London is ours'

Three protests yesterday. One outside the gates, 'We are N17' with petitions outside the Bell and Hare pub and at half-time, a lady by the name of Helen inspiring one or two to sing a song. A girl after my own heart.

Didn't make the tv (that last one) but point made. She was ejected, expected, but not banned - which would not have made good PR had the club gone down that particular route.

If anyone has any more vids or photos, please share.

Olympic Stadium chit chat with Spurs and West Ham fans

You might have seen one or two people interviewed over the FA Cup weekend, at the Lane and in the depths of the East End. Question posed; Stratford, yes or no? Here's a short preview montage of opinions. As you might (quite obviously) expect both sets of fans are pretty much of the same fragmented opinions we've argued about plenty of times here and on practically every other discussion board and blog that has asked the same question. Some like the idea, some don't.  And some really don't.

No big shock here. Would be interested to know whether West Ham fans want to move there as much as some of us don't. Equally so the fans that do want a move. Curious that one of the West Ham fans thought they could fill the OS and one Spurs fan thought we've got the money to just go ahead with the Northumberland Project.

Referendum anyone?

For the full videos for both sets of fans, Spurs and West Ham - click below:

Tottenham Fans

West Ham Fans

Be sure to visit We are N17 for your anti-Stratford fix and latest news. You can also find them on Twitter and Facebook.

Previous Stratford/N17 articles:

N17: Home is where the heart is

A nail in the coffin of Stratford?

For some, it's a brutal interrogation...

If Stratford Hotspur happens...it ends there (guest blog tehTrunk)

And as an alternative form of petition against moving out of North London and into East London...click and follow: FC Hotspur of Tottenham.

Tottenham till I die - reprise

Off the back of tehTrunk's article about the club, N17 and Stratford causing one or two ripples of fragmented opinion within the Lilywhite fanbase, someone reminded me of a prior blog that asked the simple question 'How did you come to support Tottenham?'.

That article and the comments shared is drenched in the type of nostalgia and history that a number of us wish to remain anchored to. We're a bit soft like that. So here's the article again, to hopefully stir up one or two new stories.

Original article and comments posted can be found here. Comments are really worth looking at.

Ta.

-

A question was posed on a forum asking why you support who you support. Not highly original, I know, but it's always interesting to delve into the responses to see how other peoples allegiances were birthed.

Your answer ought to be geographically influenced, but commonly it's down to immediate family and on occasions, if you are devoid of having a dad (or mum) or siblings who are interested in the beautiful game you just pick whomever is top of the league. Which is why when I was a young lad everyone in London seemed to support Liverpool*.

*Two minutes silence for their current plight please people. Two minutes.

Of course, not everyone glory-hunts. And many live abroad and simply fall in love with the history or traditions of a club in another country, based on a game they've witnessed or a book they've read or the majesty of a shirt. I appreciate that not everyone is pre-selected.

I had the privilege (curse) of having a family of Spurs supporters around me. I was also born in Tottenham. Well actually, no I wasn't. A hospital on Tottenham Court Road. Well, actually the hospital was just a brisk walk from Tottenham Court Road. Nowhere near N17, but that's just a  technicality. Tottenham Court Road, right? COYS.

My grandfather (God rest his soul) was a keen follower and frequenter of White Hart Lane during the 50's and 60's and my uncle, a fanatic during the 70's hardly missed a game. The latter, the one who influenced me and guided me into the light that is Lilywhite.

No rebellious I want to support someone else or I like their badge so I'm going to choose this lot instead - which wasn't uncommon, again, with people who had no given affiliations to a club when they were old enough to understand and make their selection. A successful team, usually defeating the local team as the winning option if they wished to fast-track themselves to the top tier. But plenty followed their hearts instead.

How some families managed to be split down the middle between two clubs always fascinated me. It's fragmentation that can never be resolved. My dad supports Spurs. My brother. My sister. My uncle's kids. We have no split. I did celebrate Trevor Brookings goal in the 1980 Cup final by running outside into the garden and attempting to head the ball into an imaginary net but that isn't confliction, it's a natural reaction. An acceptable lapse. A Newcastle supporting father and a Sunderland supporting son a story I remember hearing about. They hardly spoke, always fought. Football before family, always.

Reminds me of a bloke who stood in front of me in one of the East stand turnstiles back in the very early 90's. 1991 season I reckon, home to the scum. 0-0. Gooners waving their wallets at us from the Park Lane. Gazza almost scoring an own goal as I stood in the corner of the Shelf side in those cracking days of terraces. So this bloke in the queue had a Spurs and Arsenal badge on his jumper. A ridiculous paradox.

"I support both", he stated proudly.

The steward looked at me and I just blankly stared back. If you support two clubs, two rival clubs, then you've not quite grasped the concept, have you? It's like people who ask the question: Who's you favourite team? There is no place for favourite team in football. If you do it properly, you don't have a favourite team. You just have the one. A relationship for life. No break-up. Plenty of heartaches and headaches, and the two of you are together until your very last breath.

'Yeah, so, I really love Man U but I dig Real Madrid in their all white kit and also adore Wolves because they got a cool name. So Utd are my best, Madrid my second bestest and Wolves my third bestestest. If any of them play each other, I'd like a draw'

If you ever met someone who stated a resemblance of the above, I wouldn't look down on you if you smothered and buried him in a shallow grave in Epping forest. Favourite? There's no room for favouritism. Following the results of your local side, if you perhaps don't actually support your local side isn't betrayal. There are no affairs and no two-timing. 100% unequivocal commitment. You love your team, but you can have a soft spot for your local side. Bit like some Spurs fans I know who watch Barnet or Orient. They don't 'love' Barnet. They would practically (heavily metaphorically) die for Spurs.

However, every now and again we do get some Sol Campbells amongst us. Ooh.

My brother-in-law knew someone who, after a depressing Saturday at the Lane in a depressing season (I guess the mid-90's), and partly thanks to some peer-pressure from outside his group of friends, 'quit' supporting Spurs and not long after ended up an Arsenal fan. Quitting because your team lost? Spare a thought for supporters of clubs who never climb out of the lower tier divisions. The spirit of Benedict Arnold lives on with some.

I knew someone a few years back, a Hammers fan, who revealed he was a Spurs fan when he was a teenager but ended up following the Irons because his group of mates got involved with the ICF and he was more interested in the friendships and fighting than the football. It was, to him, more about being part of a group. A hooligan rather than standing on his own every Saturday at 3pm. Each to their own I guess.

My personal favourite (I'm using that word here because it's in context) has to be the story about these two blokes (in Leyton at the time), one of whom was completely disinterested in football and the other a West Ham fan. They both lusted after this one girl who was an Arsenal supporter. And both of them became gooners as a consequence to win her over. They both actually dated her, one after the other (she went out with one, dumped him then went out with the other one). The two blokes even had a punch up at one point outside the local pub. Heated stuff. The bloke who supported West Ham and defected for the sake of having her thighs wrapped round his back, paraded himself  in a JVC shirt often without shame.

It's a bit like sh**ting yourself in public whilst wearing white trousers. You will never live it down. Nobody will forget the humiliation. The white trousers are bad enough, but the diarrhoea? It will define you forever. How could anyone look you in the eyes and take you seriously after something like that? You would automatically lose all credibility. For life. A few years later I spotted him back in a West Ham shirt. Pathetic.

You simply cannot disdain the fabric of football and the lack of its complexities relating to allegiances. It's quite simple. You choose your team and are bound to them for life. No get out clause. That's it.

As for me, I have an almost five (edit: almost eight now) month old baby daughter (I've managed to part name her after our beloved club - work it out yourselves) so getting her to follow the Spurs might be a difficult task if her mother pampers her with shopping trips, Jimmy Choos and Gucci handbags when she's old enough to succumb to the frivolous vanity driven past-times of womanhood. However, there is hope. When she was just two months old, she projectile vomited when Cesc Fabregas appeared on the tv during a Sky Sports News report. There's hope for my THFC family bloodline yet.

TTID.

If Stratford Hotspur happens, it ends there...

Guest blog by Jack aka tehTrunk.

Yes hello, you may remember me, I was the bloke what done them little cartoon things with the voices and stuff. I'm here today in a different capacity, to share my thoughts on the eerily quiet new stadium goings on at Stra...Tottenham Hotspur. I say quiet, but thankfully Karen Brady's constant barking does serve some purpose, if only in reminding us of the fact that we could well, genuinely, be leaving not just White Hart Lane but Tottenham itself.

Yeah, this could actually happen. WTF OMG?!!1! (I'm writing on the internet, it's allowed (lol))

Now, I'm not from Tottenham, I don't even live in North London. My allegiance with Spurs is the age old father son connection familiar with many football fans. You know, when dad creeps into your bedroom at night, gagging you with an Arsenal scarf in order to play hide the magic banana? Since those days, anything bearing the cannon of them lot down the road turns my stomach and reminds me of those mornings where I'd have to swagger into school like a cowboy. This then reminds me of cowboys which I also hate (I always preferred Indians). Suffice to say that sitting through Brokeback Mountain was a nightmare.

Alas, I digress.

Where was I?

Oh yes, I support Tottenham but I'm not from Tottenham, there we go.

These recent mutterings that we could be leaving Tottenham to take up residence in the Millennium Dome (er Olympic Stadium mate?!)have created a strange and uncomfortable conflict within my thoughts, much like when I catch a glimpse of Niko Kranjcar. As I've already covered but will tell you again, Tottenham isn't my home, the team Tottenham Hotspur isn't my local team so why should I care where the team plies it's trade? I don't know really, but I do.

History has always been an important part of this club, given that during the years I've supported them there has been little success, but it's been instilled into me that this is a club with heritage, with tradition. I'm sure most clubs think this way, but we support Spurs, we don't care what myths other clubs supporters perpetuate amongst themselves. We're onto a new chapter now, who knows where it goes. I'm enjoying, while it lasts, us grabbing headlines and having a squad filled with world class players, but this isn't why I support Spurs.

We all know about our cup runs, and double heroics and European glory glory nights so I'll save the maudlin mush.

Football is a business (no sheet Sherlock). It's easy to say, but it's hard to grasp what this actually means. Business' exist to make money. The chairmen, the board, they don't care about you, they don't care about me (they should care about me, I'm awesome. Not you though. D*ckhead) Does the CEO of McDonalds care that your burger doesn't look like it does in the picture on the board?

Daniel Levy is a business man. Don't ever forget that. For all his 'Spurs fan' talk, he's a business man. He's not big Dan from down the pub who wears a Spurs shirt on match days and gets asked to leave the pub when he's had a few too many and is getting loud sweary cross and scaring the couple who just popped in for an ale and glass of house white after finishing shopping, whilst he watches Spurs lose to Wolves at home (all in 3D mind). Levy, and the people surrounding him want to make money. This isn't all a bad thing, money has allowed us to assemble the squad we see before us today. Moving to the Olympic Stadium makes perfect business sense.

It's cheaper than building an entirely new stadium. It has a massive capacity. It looks well nice so will entice new fans. Having a massive, well nice stadium increases the club's prestige both at home and abroad. This will see a rise in the attendance, fan base and the type of investors and players we can attract to the club. Maybe it'll even see us become a more attractive option to a super mega rich foreign owner, who'll buy us Messi and we can win everything and be the best team in the world and even make it onto Sky Sports montages and have our players pictured on the front of the packets of football stickers found on the newsagent's counter.

Spurs, nay, football in general is entering into a dangerously vacuous and shallow era. This potential move to Stratford is a perfect example of that. Forget the history, forget about the locals, forget the name, we're going to move. We'll be Stratford Hotspur, it'll be just the same just we'll make more money and maybe win more stuff and then football will be more better, honest. Yeah, worked well for Wimbledon. 

You can scream at me until you're blue faced, the endless clichés that 'we have to do it to compete', 'we want to win stuff what with City getting better now', 'Liverpool will bounce back sooner or later'. I don't care. I didn't support Spurs because they competed, because they were amazing, I support Spurs because they're Spurs. Sacrificing what we are in order to get to what we perceive is a higher level is like the bloke who ditches all his ugly best mates because he wants to be more popular with women. He's a lonely, boring, desperate tool and everyone can see it but him.

I know my thoughts don't represent those of all Spurs fans, and I don't look down on anyone for feeling differently (I really do to be honest). I just see this as one of many examples of how appalling our society is now. It's like saying that I think my mum is fat and ugly and I want a new one with less droopy wangers that way it'll reflect better on me and then I'll be happier. I don't think you're fat and ugly by the way Mummy, Trunky wuvs woo.

If Stratford Hotspur happens, it ends there for me. FC Hotspur of Tottenham or whoever else likely pops up it'll be. You can take your Gareth Bales, VDVs and whoever else and shove them. Along with your reality TV, IKEA furniture, tabloid newspapers, celebrities, Thomas Cook holidays and most of all your Sky Sports.

If all of you told Levy where he could stick his plan, it wouldn't happen, fact. But you won't.

Think on. 

Be sure to visit We are N17 for your anti-Stratford fix and latest news. You can also find them on Twitter and Facebook.

Previous Stratford/N17 articles by Spooky:

N17: Home is where the heart is

A nail in the coffin of Stratford?

For some, it's a brutal interrogation...

Daniel Levy, stripped bare and naked

Club AGM. Questions asked and answered. Four topics of discussion.

Bale.
Redknapp and England.
Stratford and N17.
The January Transfer Window.

With boy wonder Gareth, Levy has basically said he's not for sale which means he won't be sold, citing the examples of Carrick and Berba as not quite the same thing because both players wanted to leave (with 2 years left on their contract). And because they wanted out the club sold them off. You can look at that in two differing ways. One way, the romantic notion of loyalty embraced, is that if a player doesn't want to wear the shirt he should not be deemed worthy of remaining at the club for a second longer it takes to kick him out. The alternative is to let the player sulk around the place, defecating on the badge and placing a gun to your head whilst holding you down, repeatedly calling you his little b****.

Player power, no matter the years on the contract, if they want to leave they can usually quite comfortably navigate and negotiate their way out. And let's be honest, it's the club that matters as a complete entity so if you have a malignant part of it, you want to see it removed. Players are commodities in that no matter how depressed/sad/angry you are when they leave controversially - they are always replaceable.

In the case of Gareth Bale, he appears not to be tainted with the ego virus. Not yet. All players are born with it, just a case of whether it ever manifests. He's level headed, feet on ground, leaving full-backs and transfer stories behind.

He's on a long contract and for the moment all is good. We don't need the money. Bale doesn't need to be playing his football anywhere else. I don't think for a second anybody actually believes some of the rubbish printed on paper and online about this that and the other being interested in the player. Even Fergie won't be bothering with a tap dance this new year.

No shocker with this answered question from Mr Chairman. Just confirmation of the obvious.

Harry and England? Levy points to another long term contract. Side-step by Daniel in that how exactly is he meant to answer it other than say it will be dealt with if it happens? And by deal with it, he means 'get compensation' from the FA. Because Harry would crawl over broken glass with Pompey and West Ham fans making sure said broken glass was aplenty at all times during the crawl.

Everybody knows Harry looks after number one. If England came calling he'd go. But that wouldn't be a disaster. Spurs are stable. Which was the whole point of bringing him to the Lane back in the days of two points eight games. The next appointment would have to be…ah, let's discuss this when we actually have to.

Again, no massive confirmation of anything we didn't know or could guess.

A proper side-step with questions around moving to the site of the Olympic Stadium. Levy is aware of the mood of the fans. Which would mean he knows the fans are fragmented with some of us not wanting to move and others happy. Mr Chairman states that he's a fan and he has friends who are fans and he interacts with them every day. And that he doesn't need a survey because he has a 'pretty good feel' as to what the mood is. Which is fragmented. Unless all his mates love East London. Which in that case, wipe that tear away and kiss Bill Nicholson Way goodbye for ever.

So pretty much nothing in the way of headline making news again.

And finally, the Jan transfer window. Take note 'In the Know' communities. You need to base your inside info around Daniel's comments about how he expects it to be a 'quiet transfer window'. So lay off linking us with 473 players in the next three weeks.

In all seriousness, soz, but nothing to read into again because we have another side-step from Levz. And why not? It's not like we want him to tell us we have X amount in the Consolidation War Chest and we're be paying £25M for young up and coming midfield engine room Scottie Parker.

What he does confirm is probably the only telling piece of information. We need to rationalise our squad (largest in the Prem league). In other words, goodbye to the likes of Robert Keane. Sell on, cut down on wages etc. And stating we do not anticipate a busy transfer window does sort of contradict this in that you'd expect us to sell more than one player which could be deemed as busy. And obviously sign a player. Or two. Although we do have one new arrival (from Africa) already due to arrive. So that would also fall under the 'busy' banner.

Okay then, hands up, I admit it. That wasn't actually a very telling piece of info was it? Much ado about narda.

Daniel Levy. Not quite stripped bare and naked with teasing finger in mouth. Rather fully clothed with a thick winter coat on, scarf & gloves and Ugg boots with additional darkened glasses moving slowly and strategically away, quietly repeating whatever it is you're saying.

"You ain't seen me, right?"

For some, it's a brutal interrogation. For others an itch that can be easily scratched

Stratford. It’s been discussed to death, then gets resuscitated and has the life sucked out of it once more before being dragged out of its shallow grave and throttled for just around the hundredth time. For some, it's a brutal interrogation. For others an itch that can be easily scratched.

It’s unlikely to change any time soon. Even with Boris rubber stamping the N17 project. I'll ignore the finer details of the various approval stages and clarity on funding until a later time when we know more. And I'll humour the prospect of East London because Levy believes its plausible even though others would suggest it would never be allowed to happen.

Humour on we go.

Spurs fans are split over the arguments for and against moving. Financially and in terms of progress, moving there makes sense if you take into account the avoidance of huge potentially crippling debt. A new chapter, same club, new area. The identity of the club is the fans so no matter where we stand or sing there won't be too much bother, right?

Well, no possibly wrong. Because philosophically it irks many of us considering the abuse aimed at Arsenal for their nomadic journey from South London to North London, renaming Gillespie Road etc etc. Football for many transcends corporate hospitality.

Let's have a sing-a-long...

"North London is ours North London is oooooooours, **** off back to Woolwich, North London is ours" - sang to the tune of Beach Boys / Sloop John B

...for how much longer we'll have to wait and see.

Might be just five miles down the road from N17 (doesn't look far at all when viewed on google maps)  the traditionalists do not want to lose what they define as the clubs identify which is something that over time can quite possibly happen. Hypothetically, the next generation or two of Spurs fans will be born into a club that resides in East London and may well never know anything different. The sentiment here is – we are Tottenham. And the very essence of any club is where the club is even if most of us travel into the area and don't actually live there.

If West Ham left their current location the same identity make over would happen to them over time. Upton Park sits in an unwelcoming area which still provides character and provokes an atmosphere. At least it does when we visit. Although that might still happen if they moved into the Olympic Stadium and we visited Stratford instead. But I'll hazard a guess that it will be far less moody. In fact it wont be the same thing at all. But then going to the Emirates rather than Highbury hasn't changed the match-day buzz and hatred. But then they haven't actually moved out of their squat attachment area. Just up the road into a new swamp.

Is five miles East up the road?

These types of non-associations to revenue increase intricateness are the anchors to our tribal instincts. It's the stuff some would render irrelevant to progression and ample for sacrifice. Time and its annoying way of changing stuff, the interfering SOB. Football is forever changing and compared to the 1980's it's changed massively from terraces to CCTV to all seaters to family sections and executive boxes.

And this is where it gets messy. People’s perception of what defines a club is varied from one to the next. Traditionalists versus new agers. Tottenham’s history will never be in doubt. That can never be altered and will always be spoken about and remembered and past on from father to son. But the unity of fans at our club still remains strong and I hardly feel like I'm detached from the majority (even though there are plenty of head-shaking moments).

So, five miles? Okay, so you don't need to live or be born in Tottenham to claim the supporting bloodline so the new agers will argue that it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things and that the club and the fans are far stronger in spirit than a location/area and it's geographical importance. So if the Spurs landscape was to change then it would be no different to what has happened with Arsenal. You know, that thing with Arsenal. You know it right? The thing with the south and the move and renaming and stuff.

I personally have no idea if anyone in Woolwich or South London support or perceive Arsenal as their club considering they’ve moved. I doubt it. It's been along time. I do know Spurs and one or two others were not happy with them shifting desperately into North London. And it sort of turns my stomach to think that had they remained in South London, would all of their North London based fans have supported...nah, let’s not go there.

White Strat Lane

What about the national stadium? Wembley is North London, right? It's not been discussed as an option for ages because it's not an option. If we did move there – would you be happy with it? Geographically you would argue that Stratford is closer to our current home, so back to the question of whether we are all getting dizzy over the semantics of location and the name of said location?

We’re Tottenham, we’re North London, we sing it in songs, we remind our neighbours about it – in fact it’s the reason our neighbours are rivals and enemies. Perhaps if we moved to Stratford, in thirty years time, West Ham will be considered our main rivals (easy there Spammers, it's still 30 years off and it's theoretical so stick the champagne back into the ice bucket) because of the bitterness caused by moving onto their patch. Whilst over in North London, Arsenal are sat there on their own, Billy-no-mates. Doubtful of course that many many decades of hatred would be dismissed because of a five mile move. But one or two new songs will be birthed, for and against, by our fans and rival fans. And over time, priorities of hatred will probably change. But then we shouldn't be defining ourselves on who hates us. Who cares? But the point is - the club (five miles or not) will change at various fundamental levels which are dismissive to some but imperative to others.

These (dare I say) little things are important to many and outweigh the current obsessions with financial clout and branding and this relentless objective to expand and turn into footballing beast. Which is hardly a little thing. We need a 60,000 (more or less) ground.

Am I doing a good job of illustrating confliction of the soul?

I don’t think Stratford will be handed over to us if we wanted it any ways. I'd be shocked. Riots on the streets and such. Levy planting a flag on the site of the Olympic Stadium whilst chased by Sullivan and Gold and Brady who are throwing jellied eels and mash in his direction, foaming at mouth.

Haringey are blatantly taking the mick, as you would expect, with Levy in terms of using us to regenerate the area with our money as they appear to have no available monies to do the job themselves. Politics at play. Feasibility it seems on paper is winning the battle to remain ahead of matters of the heart. £460M is potentially crippling, as mentioned many times already - by fans and club.

And the club has to move forward, because it's not certain we can do it standing still?

So what do we do?

I don’t know.

What I do know is; there is an immediate necessity to reshape the club’s progression to maximise revenue in-order to remain competitive and appease the thousands waiting for season ticket availability and fans who wish to hold onto the past with what makes it special to be a Tottenham fan who do not want the foundations dug up and replaced with new building blocks of identity. We fear change. And those little things discussed surrounding rivalries, generational associations and geographic history - they matter.

Unfortunately suggestions that we should re-look at perhaps slowly rebuilding WHL, a stand at a time, are not considered viable. And remaining at a standstill would equate to stagnation.

This should not feel like being stuck between a rock and a hard place.

A nail in the coffin of Stratford?

N17: Home is where the heart is

Exercise or play sport regularly? Join Spurs legend Graham Roberts and tell Arthritis Research UK about your experiences of sports pain or injuries: painoutofsport.org



A nail in the coffin of Stratford?

Wasn't expecting the Boris decision today. Happy days he's approved it. The below article was written pre-decision (with the last paragraph or so amended post-decision), but as there is still some way to go (at least until Levy makes a statement on the official site) I'll continue to entertain the Stratford debate for arguments sake. Because going on the last statement made by the club, it's still a feasible option for the board.

All of the below (a mix of random musings and thoughts on the last statement) is still more or less relevant in that the final decision on our move will remain with the club.

It's now down to us.

---

Back onto the Stratford debate.

For anyone who wants the club to place heritage and history above and beyond the urgency to build it (and they will come) somewhere outside N17 then click here. Financial stability and growth is imperative, no doubt, but it's not quite gun to the head trigger to be pulled make a decision now or else. Is it?

Or is it?

If Northumberland doesn't get the green light (from all approvers) or Levy decides against it - is Stratford the only viable option? Unless there are underlying agendas as to why ENIC would want to get the ball rolling quick sharp. Not pulling a Lammy here and suggesting anything sinister. Just that their roadmap might have the here and now as prudent to moving forwards with an approved plan rather than left scratching our heads for potentially many more years.

I know - in comparison to others - we are 5/6 years behind and some. But it's not like we've been financially crippled in recent years and arguably we have competed in the transfer market with clubs who have double/triple our gate receipt revenue. Yes, we have 30,000+ waiting for season tickets. Our fan base is a strong one. Our development on the pitch is hardly being effected. But I do get it, get the stadium sorted now and in 5 or so years we'll be raking it in and you can't dispute the extra monies won't help us maximise the club further. Won’t count for much if it isn't working on the pitch. And I'd hate to think we are going to place all our eggs in the one basket with what goes on off it.

The football landscape is changing and emotional attachments are sold on for future investment. It's hard to accept which is why we are divided. Some wont let go, others want to conquer new territory with just a nod to the past. Them lot down the road left their original swamp and moved into another, remaining within North London. There are hardly any alternative options for us within N17 other than Northumberland/WHL.

Yes, I want us to get stronger and yes if the only way to dodge the bullet is to opt for East London then our hands our tied, but I can't help but believe we are more Jack Bauer than we are Jack on top of the hill, tumbling down.

Hopefully Stratford is taken out of the equation. Ask yourself, if Stratford was not in the equation - what would we do? Settle for nothing? Of course not. And there's your answer. Jack Bauer - never say die and do everything in your power to preserve. Let only the weak fall down and break their crown.

Again, some of us are back arguing whether Levy is using his Machiavellian tactics booklet to instigate some positive action from the local authorities or he's considering the brand of THFC has out grown the siren-ridden badlands of Tottenham. You can take a name out of Tottenham but you can never take Tottenham out of the name. Or something. A move away is just a new chapter in our history, what came before it will not be forgotten. There are countless philosophical for and against arguments to be had.

Last week Levy released an open letter/statement on the OS. Strategically (for the conspiracy freaks) not that long after Lammay's comments about Levy being serious about moving Spurs to Stratford were shared on Twitter. Again, if this is a tag-team to heighten awareness of why the Northumberland project is stagnating in theory then bravo. If it's not then at this very late late stage, it's either ballsy hard ball from Levy or desperation to save the N17 vision by gaining public sector assistance. You could say the gun is pointing at their head, trigger pull at the ready as much as it's pointing at ours. To dare is to do, right?

One issue is funding from the public sector where money is probably going to be prioritised for a dozen other projects to aid with unemployment and housing etc. I guess in terms of long term investment it's probably worth looking at the work we are trying to do for the community.

I don’t quite grasp how it all works politically but in the initial survey Spurs conducted surely they would have understood the potential for additional costs and problems with funding outside of the clubs power to invest?

As a side note - according to one or two people who work in civil engineering - they say all this listed buildings drama is much ado about nothing and that in several years they will probably be knocked down. Which is an expensive irony. My argument has always been - why have these listed buildings been left alone and allowed to degrade for so long but now suddenly it's vital they are retained and have to be pencilled into a re-design? Don't answer that question, it's obvious why.

As for the Olympic Stadium being our original choice, did this not get rejected out of hand because fans did not want to move from our current home? Anyone care to share?

And re: Stratford and travel, to be honest I can see it being carnage, thousands upon thousands of people using the one station (yes I know it has plenty of routes in and out and platforms and overground trains etc). Try using it on any working night from Monday to Friday. Carnage. I guess much like Seven Sisters is carnage, but at least fans disperse thanks to the walk/bus journey down the high road to the station and others opting for the over-ground to Liverpool Street. Also, three soul-destroying words for ya: The Central Line. Welcome to a world of signal failures.

Re: Stratford (and travel again) - The Olympic games will probably be a decent enough test for the transport there. I'm sure what with the money spent it will cope admirably. And if I wanted the easy option I would actually opt for the move because I could travel in from Essex within 30 minutes or so with a guaranteed seat every time. But my travel arrangements for match-day are hardly pressing.

Like I keep saying, you travel to see your team no matter what.

These are not serious discussion points by the way, I'm just pointing out you can make anything look big or small look bad or good thanks to personal opinion. And yes, Tottenham is not a great place to look at and there's plenty to moan about but its got its charm and character not because of what it is from one day to the next but because of what it is on match-days. And I guess my point here can be hijacked (I did say it myself to be fair in the last Stratford article - linked at the end of this article) that it’s the fans that make the experience worthwhile. But it's glued together by the identity of the club and where it stands at the moment in N17. To say Stratford is five miles away, then we may as well move to any place in London because 'you can still get to it quickly by tube'. Any choice locations South of the river?

One thing to note, we've acquired most of the land for the Northumberland project. I know it can be easily sold on (you would hope, surely, shopping centre where once Mackay and Blanchflower graced the ball around), but again, unless I'm ignoring the business sense Levy has used in also bidding for Stratford, I just think we are far too involved to give up on N17.

And moving further North of Tottenham is pretty much on par with moving to Stratford, in terms of moving. The whole point is to stay in N17 and not move out of Tottenham. Gun to head permitting. If we can't build on the current site.

Yes it would be cheaper/easier to move to Stratford. I get it. I appreciate the travel infrastructure is there, ready and willing. Yes we would appeal to tourists and day-trippers. But since when has any of this really mattered? Or is making as much money possible going to be the reason we evolve as a club?

You support Spurs. You will travel to see them. You won't bemoan a walk to and from the station.

"Any new stadium option must necessarily be one which is feasible in both land acquisition and financing terms" - Levy.

So was the Northumberland Project ever feasible?

Of course it was/is. Compare it to Stratford and it isn't.  First choice or second?

I'd be interested to see the club possible survey all the current season ticket holders and everyone on the waiting list - to gauge opinion. Yes or no. Just the one question. For demographic purposes.

One more thing - I'm not planning on throwing water balloons of urine over the West Stand entrance here. I think these types of discussions have a value because of the arguments for and against shared by supporters of the club. I actually think nobody is completely wrong and nobody is completely right. What I do believe is - if you want something bad enough then you fight for it. Underhanded in the shadows or out in the open throwing punches.

I want us to stay in N17.

Boris has today approved the plans. No surprise. It was never in doubt. It's now up to us to push ahead with them. Still a question with the public money we want. It's still one step closer.

In Levy we trust. We have to. He's the one responsible for representing us.

N17: Home is where the heart is

N17: Home is where the heart is

There's been plenty of debate and opinion in the past few days, spurned on in addition by David Lammy (Tottenham MP) who revealed via Twitter that Daniel Levy is serious about the Stratford bid. Well he's hardly not going to be serious is he? Of course he's serious. Levy is a business man and his responsibility is to THFC, unequivocally and unquestionable. Although the health and financial clout of ENIC is also of utmost importance. A new stadium would equate to our overall value quadrupling and some. It's about revenue and we have a power-house of a fan base, just not enough seats at the minute.

We all know this redevelopment and approval lark has dragged on and on, even though the reality is - it's just been going through the standard application process. Seems like we're all now tap dancing around the last hurdle. A substantial amount of work has gone into the vision and re-designs of the Northumberland Redevelopment Project. The question marks have always been about the transport links and traffic issues getting in and out of N17. Which is apparently one reason why moving to Stratford is a viable option. No more walking up Tottenham High Road rushing for the bus. Or leaving the game ten minutes early (that's for all the West Standers amongst you) and missing a late <insert promoted side here> winner.

Okay, so there are countless facets to this for and against argument. And plenty has been said already (mostly from the three stooges over in Green Street) about how we would not be allowed to uproot and move from one Borough to another (hey, if we did, we'd be so close to them lot they'll have a right to call us their rivals and it would mean something…derby matches against Orient would be guaranteed sell-outs. If they ever got themselves into the Prem that is).

I've even heard that Boris himself (a week or so away from announcing his approval/disapproval of the Northumberland project) invited Spurs to bid for Stratford. Supposedly because we would be far more beneficial to the area and the Olympic stadium in terms of fan base, money and stature. Sub-plots about running tracks and concerts don't sit well with me. But if there is no running track and the stadium could be touched up to include even more seats etc etc - financially, it would be the easier option to take/be given. Purely from the perspective of progression and cost. If we're talking about the club as a business entity. Far fewer headaches and possibly far more accommodating politically.

Haringey are tiresome and draining and it would seem not fully appreciative that without the club all they would have left in Tottenham is that quite wonderful kebab house just past the Paxton Rd and on the opposite side of the high road where they wrap up your chips in pita bread. Probably not worth a visit every other week if there's no dessert to feast on just after 3pm. However, they've approved the plans regardless.

Back to Levy. At the time that Spurs officially bid (confirmed their interest) in the Olympic Stadium, I was advised this was astute and shrewd of Mr Chairman. Covering all bases. Think about it. We have plans to knock down and build a brand spanking new stadium just to the side of WHL. It would aid in the regeneration of the surrounding area. The local council know this. All the reports and surveys and various must haves (i.e. the listed buildings) are simply standard hurdles. The final one is where Boris now stands, but he wont be the one jumping, just rubber-stamping. All the tap dancing being had is by us, the press, West Ham, MP's and journalists.

Levy had to declare interest in Stratford because if the NRP was rejected, we'd be stuck with our 36,000 capacity. We might still be stuck in Tottenham if there's an uproar and riots back in East London, a few miles from the border into the North. Sullivan with staff screaming, you shall not pass. The Lilywhite Balrog defeated. Karren Brady at the time made a big deal of Levy not telling her about it, presumably via Facebook. She misses the point like many. It's not about her or her poxy little club or anybody outside of THFC. It's about Tottenham Hotspur. And I applaud Levy for his tunnelled focus on making sure that whatever happens no rock is left unturned. Because the risk of ending up with nothing would be a disaster.

Levy, at his Machiavellian best you might say, could have initially used Stratford to pressure Haringey. But its gone to the Mayor so there is very little to be gained from political blackmail and at the end of the day, if there existed a third option he'd have probably gone after that with equalled motivation. Boris might do what's best for London or he might just opt to give us what we want. Levy is continuing on both fronts because he would be wholly unprofessional if he didn't. One thing is for certain, unlike us - he's not split in the middle. Levy knows what is best - from his perspective - for the club. Deep down. Everything he does, we question and attempt to second guess and decipher. Patience, not much of a virtue.

This is where it gets fragmented. If you had to guess, which way would you go?

What side of the fence do you sit on?

On the one hand you could argue that Tottenham, it's essence, is the fans. We are the club. We get charged up to £50 - £70 per game for the privilege, but it's still all about us (although modern football is making the majority more and more disposable and replaceable with each passing decade). Some clubs, if they upped and moved  would not need to offer cut-price tickets to re-generate a buzz. Although there still remains a risk of a curse not too dissimilar to the one Man City fans find themselves in.

We're the heart of the club. No matter where we are you could argue we would perceiver and make the most of it. If we moved away from N17, the club and its traditions would move with us. Sentimental, romantic notions of 'our patch' and the Glory Glory nights under the floodlights at the Lane - will remain strong in our history, and never be forgotten. We still lose WHL if we rebuild just next to it. So what difference moving a few miles away? It's not like we're moving from South London to North London? We'll just be moving the THFC franchise a few miles up the road. No need for a breakaway club. No change of name. Agree? Disagree? FC Hotspur of Tottenham anyone?

So up the road. To the Gardens of Babylon of East London. So what of the area?

Quite a number of European clubs have their grounds in not so glamorous surroundings. I guess moving from Tottenham to Stratford wouldn't make that much of a difference either way. Although Stratford will have some trees so obviously it's going to be prettier. I lived for some time in Leyton, stones throw from Stratford. Anyone know this part of the world? Allow me to describe it to you. There is a tradition for local residents to throw their broken tv sets and old and stained bed mattresses outside in the street. In fact, any old rubbish, just dump it outside because someone will pick it up.

Gang warfare from teenagers with knives to the East Europeans, muggings, killings, drunken fights in the streets, pockets of poverty and run down buildings aplenty. A lack of respect. It's a bit like moving from Basrah to Baghdad. Or say, I don't know, from Tottenham to Stratford. Hmm.

People from that part of the world might think I'm being harsh, but I'm just picking up on the bad things that outweigh the good. Much like you would for N17. Both, personally, from the perspective of living there, are hardly paragons of beauty to look at. But then in regards to Spurs, the high road is something you walk down to get to the ground. It's not the reason for going to Tottenham. WHL is.

It's all fairly redundant. Most parts of London are rundown, unless we decided to build a stadium in the middle of Knightsbridge.

So who gives a f*ck where the stadium sits when all that matters is what goes on inside it?

We are Tottenham. That's all that matters. Right?

If Spurs and Levy genuinely believe we will be paralysed in parts with the transport aspect (would cost billions to extend the Victoria Line) of staying in N17 (the only negative long term issue worthy of discussion, well that and the 'just under 60,000 capacity')  then I'll have to suck it up. Spurs will be around long after I'm gone. But as colourful as all the rhetoric is from all corners and taking in all the pros and cons of going or staying - I'm going to go with my heart. Because that's how I follow football. Gut feelings.

I will be shocked and surprised if Boris doesn't give the green light.
I will be shocked and surprised if Levy's vision, his priority, is not to stay in North London.
I will be shocked and surprised if the whole progress and process of submitting and re-designing the Northumberland Redevelopment Project that came with the hardly unsurprising initial rejections and demands of change has forced Levy into changing his focus from North to East Northish East London.
I will be shocked and surprised if after all this, Levy always knew that the cost of building a stadium in N17 would have a detrimental effect on the club in terms of transfers in and out long term and that the real ruse was the project and thus the real target was Stratford.

We could be here all day drowning deep in conspiracy theories and agendas (is Lammy tweeting for his own personal gains to look good or is he being played by Levy or are they both in on it? See what I mean?)

My heart says we don't want to move and there is very little chance of Boris rejecting it and that the fact its got as far as being sent to his office for final approval means that its practically done and dusted. IMO.

Tottenham Hotspur, the experience, it's match-day traditions and its soul is in the heart of N17, Tottenham. It's home. Even with the police signs calling for witnesses littering the high road and the distinct lack of pretty buildings. It's home. The pubs and the long walk down from Seven Sisters. The ridiculous queues to get a train from White Hart Lane station into Liverpool Street post-match. None of it actually matters. And yet it does. But then who cares as long as Spurs win?

It's our territory. It's our land. Just for one or two days every couple of weeks.

Sentimental, I guess I am after all. Stratford would feel like an away day, detached from the past. For a while perhaps. And having just under 60,000 in N17 would make the various queues even longer. But personally, I'd rather have the atmosphere of having the majestic swashbuckle of our club in a derelict area than moving outside of the place we are named after into the heartland of Orient and West Ham United.

A derelict area with a shiny new polished stadia in the middle of it.

If I lack ambition or perhaps allowing sentimentality to cloud my judgement, sorry. My heart rules. If Levy or you think otherwise then so be it.

And I guess my heart is also telling me I'm a traditionalist. If it was good enough for Bill Nicholson to live up the road from, then its good enough for me to travel to from my humble village dwellings just outside the M25 in Essex. To be honest I still have issues with losing White Hart Lane (the ground and it's name), so the sucking up I'll have to do to deal with a move to Stratford would have to take on epic proportions for me to accept it. But accept I'll have to. Sir Bill would not have wanted the club to stand still. Aim high.

It's about revenue. But foremost, in its purist form, it's about football. It should be. And it should be about us. The fans. The 'club'. So what do you want?

If we're progressing as a football club will it matter where the new chapter is being written?

I guess the crux of it is, either way, whatever happens, no matter which side of the fence you sit - no matter the final decision - you will move on. No matter the loyalties sacrificed. We'll move on. Together. With the club. As one.



Comedy gold

Catching up with yesterdays news. What is it with the three stooges over in East London? Their mouths permanently open. Don't they know only Harry has the copyright for that?

“Is it a ludicrous idea? It sounds like it to me. They have just got planning permission to build a new stadium. So what are they going to do, have one stadium for when it’s sunny and another for when it’s raining?” - Gold

No you moron. It's called having options, the type you are required to have by default when dealing with the matter of redevelopment and the future of a football club. What exactly is our chairman meant to do in this scenario? Not submit an application for the Olympic stadium meaning it would be impossible to have ever applied for it after the deadline had passed? What if Boris says no to the N17 plan? We'd be left scratching our heads.

Nah guv, it aint on is it? Nah, that pesky greedy Levy and his bang out of orderness of fulfilling his duty as club chairman to do everything in his power to have all corners covered, because that makes perfect and quite obvious business sense. Soz about the no text message to Kazza to let her know. Daniel has one less friend on Facebook now.

But don't fret Gold, Boris will say yes to the Northumberland project and you'll have Stratford and East London to yourselves to downsize the stadium to a modest size to make sure you're not left with empty seats and plenty of unsold tickets.

I still think, mixed in with the business thinking, part of this is a Levy ploy to make sure Boris rubber stamps it. Even in a worst case scenario, East London is not for me.