N17: Home is where the heart is
Friday, November 19, 2010 at 11:48AM There's been plenty of debate and opinion in the past few days, spurned on in addition by David Lammy (Tottenham MP) who revealed via Twitter that Daniel Levy is serious about the Stratford bid. Well he's hardly not going to be serious is he? Of course he's serious. Levy is a business man and his responsibility is to THFC, unequivocally and unquestionable. Although the health and financial clout of ENIC is also of utmost importance. A new stadium would equate to our overall value quadrupling and some. It's about revenue and we have a power-house of a fan base, just not enough seats at the minute.
We all know this redevelopment and approval lark has dragged on and on, even though the reality is - it's just been going through the standard application process. Seems like we're all now tap dancing around the last hurdle. A substantial amount of work has gone into the vision and re-designs of the Northumberland Redevelopment Project. The question marks have always been about the transport links and traffic issues getting in and out of N17. Which is apparently one reason why moving to Stratford is a viable option. No more walking up Tottenham High Road rushing for the bus. Or leaving the game ten minutes early (that's for all the West Standers amongst you) and missing a late <insert promoted side here> winner.
Okay, so there are countless facets to this for and against argument. And plenty has been said already (mostly from the three stooges over in Green Street) about how we would not be allowed to uproot and move from one Borough to another (hey, if we did, we'd be so close to them lot they'll have a right to call us their rivals and it would mean something…derby matches against Orient would be guaranteed sell-outs. If they ever got themselves into the Prem that is).
I've even heard that Boris himself (a week or so away from announcing his approval/disapproval of the Northumberland project) invited Spurs to bid for Stratford. Supposedly because we would be far more beneficial to the area and the Olympic stadium in terms of fan base, money and stature. Sub-plots about running tracks and concerts don't sit well with me. But if there is no running track and the stadium could be touched up to include even more seats etc etc - financially, it would be the easier option to take/be given. Purely from the perspective of progression and cost. If we're talking about the club as a business entity. Far fewer headaches and possibly far more accommodating politically.
Haringey are tiresome and draining and it would seem not fully appreciative that without the club all they would have left in Tottenham is that quite wonderful kebab house just past the Paxton Rd and on the opposite side of the high road where they wrap up your chips in pita bread. Probably not worth a visit every other week if there's no dessert to feast on just after 3pm. However, they've approved the plans regardless.
Back to Levy. At the time that Spurs officially bid (confirmed their interest) in the Olympic Stadium, I was advised this was astute and shrewd of Mr Chairman. Covering all bases. Think about it. We have plans to knock down and build a brand spanking new stadium just to the side of WHL. It would aid in the regeneration of the surrounding area. The local council know this. All the reports and surveys and various must haves (i.e. the listed buildings) are simply standard hurdles. The final one is where Boris now stands, but he wont be the one jumping, just rubber-stamping. All the tap dancing being had is by us, the press, West Ham, MP's and journalists.
Levy had to declare interest in Stratford because if the NRP was rejected, we'd be stuck with our 36,000 capacity. We might still be stuck in Tottenham if there's an uproar and riots back in East London, a few miles from the border into the North. Sullivan with staff screaming, you shall not pass. The Lilywhite Balrog defeated. Karren Brady at the time made a big deal of Levy not telling her about it, presumably via Facebook. She misses the point like many. It's not about her or her poxy little club or anybody outside of THFC. It's about Tottenham Hotspur. And I applaud Levy for his tunnelled focus on making sure that whatever happens no rock is left unturned. Because the risk of ending up with nothing would be a disaster.
Levy, at his Machiavellian best you might say, could have initially used Stratford to pressure Haringey. But its gone to the Mayor so there is very little to be gained from political blackmail and at the end of the day, if there existed a third option he'd have probably gone after that with equalled motivation. Boris might do what's best for London or he might just opt to give us what we want. Levy is continuing on both fronts because he would be wholly unprofessional if he didn't. One thing is for certain, unlike us - he's not split in the middle. Levy knows what is best - from his perspective - for the club. Deep down. Everything he does, we question and attempt to second guess and decipher. Patience, not much of a virtue.
This is where it gets fragmented. If you had to guess, which way would you go?
What side of the fence do you sit on?
On the one hand you could argue that Tottenham, it's essence, is the fans. We are the club. We get charged up to £50 - £70 per game for the privilege, but it's still all about us (although modern football is making the majority more and more disposable and replaceable with each passing decade). Some clubs, if they upped and moved would not need to offer cut-price tickets to re-generate a buzz. Although there still remains a risk of a curse not too dissimilar to the one Man City fans find themselves in.
We're the heart of the club. No matter where we are you could argue we would perceiver and make the most of it. If we moved away from N17, the club and its traditions would move with us. Sentimental, romantic notions of 'our patch' and the Glory Glory nights under the floodlights at the Lane - will remain strong in our history, and never be forgotten. We still lose WHL if we rebuild just next to it. So what difference moving a few miles away? It's not like we're moving from South London to North London? We'll just be moving the THFC franchise a few miles up the road. No need for a breakaway club. No change of name. Agree? Disagree? FC Hotspur of Tottenham anyone?
So up the road. To the Gardens of Babylon of East London. So what of the area?
Quite a number of European clubs have their grounds in not so glamorous surroundings. I guess moving from Tottenham to Stratford wouldn't make that much of a difference either way. Although Stratford will have some trees so obviously it's going to be prettier. I lived for some time in Leyton, stones throw from Stratford. Anyone know this part of the world? Allow me to describe it to you. There is a tradition for local residents to throw their broken tv sets and old and stained bed mattresses outside in the street. In fact, any old rubbish, just dump it outside because someone will pick it up.
Gang warfare from teenagers with knives to the East Europeans, muggings, killings, drunken fights in the streets, pockets of poverty and run down buildings aplenty. A lack of respect. It's a bit like moving from Basrah to Baghdad. Or say, I don't know, from Tottenham to Stratford. Hmm.
People from that part of the world might think I'm being harsh, but I'm just picking up on the bad things that outweigh the good. Much like you would for N17. Both, personally, from the perspective of living there, are hardly paragons of beauty to look at. But then in regards to Spurs, the high road is something you walk down to get to the ground. It's not the reason for going to Tottenham. WHL is.
It's all fairly redundant. Most parts of London are rundown, unless we decided to build a stadium in the middle of Knightsbridge.
So who gives a f*ck where the stadium sits when all that matters is what goes on inside it?
We are Tottenham. That's all that matters. Right?
If Spurs and Levy genuinely believe we will be paralysed in parts with the transport aspect (would cost billions to extend the Victoria Line) of staying in N17 (the only negative long term issue worthy of discussion, well that and the 'just under 60,000 capacity') then I'll have to suck it up. Spurs will be around long after I'm gone. But as colourful as all the rhetoric is from all corners and taking in all the pros and cons of going or staying - I'm going to go with my heart. Because that's how I follow football. Gut feelings.
I will be shocked and surprised if Boris doesn't give the green light.
I will be shocked and surprised if Levy's vision, his priority, is not to stay in North London.
I will be shocked and surprised if the whole progress and process of submitting and re-designing the Northumberland Redevelopment Project that came with the hardly unsurprising initial rejections and demands of change has forced Levy into changing his focus from North to East Northish East London.
I will be shocked and surprised if after all this, Levy always knew that the cost of building a stadium in N17 would have a detrimental effect on the club in terms of transfers in and out long term and that the real ruse was the project and thus the real target was Stratford.
We could be here all day drowning deep in conspiracy theories and agendas (is Lammy tweeting for his own personal gains to look good or is he being played by Levy or are they both in on it? See what I mean?)
My heart says we don't want to move and there is very little chance of Boris rejecting it and that the fact its got as far as being sent to his office for final approval means that its practically done and dusted. IMO.
Tottenham Hotspur, the experience, it's match-day traditions and its soul is in the heart of N17, Tottenham. It's home. Even with the police signs calling for witnesses littering the high road and the distinct lack of pretty buildings. It's home. The pubs and the long walk down from Seven Sisters. The ridiculous queues to get a train from White Hart Lane station into Liverpool Street post-match. None of it actually matters. And yet it does. But then who cares as long as Spurs win?
It's our territory. It's our land. Just for one or two days every couple of weeks.
Sentimental, I guess I am after all. Stratford would feel like an away day, detached from the past. For a while perhaps. And having just under 60,000 in N17 would make the various queues even longer. But personally, I'd rather have the atmosphere of having the majestic swashbuckle of our club in a derelict area than moving outside of the place we are named after into the heartland of Orient and West Ham United.
A derelict area with a shiny new polished stadia in the middle of it.
If I lack ambition or perhaps allowing sentimentality to cloud my judgement, sorry. My heart rules. If Levy or you think otherwise then so be it.
And I guess my heart is also telling me I'm a traditionalist. If it was good enough for Bill Nicholson to live up the road from, then its good enough for me to travel to from my humble village dwellings just outside the M25 in Essex. To be honest I still have issues with losing White Hart Lane (the ground and it's name), so the sucking up I'll have to do to deal with a move to Stratford would have to take on epic proportions for me to accept it. But accept I'll have to. Sir Bill would not have wanted the club to stand still. Aim high.
It's about revenue. But foremost, in its purist form, it's about football. It should be. And it should be about us. The fans. The 'club'. So what do you want?
If we're progressing as a football club will it matter where the new chapter is being written?
I guess the crux of it is, either way, whatever happens, no matter which side of the fence you sit - no matter the final decision - you will move on. No matter the loyalties sacrificed. We'll move on. Together. With the club. As one.
Reader Comments (175)
Spooks, are you certain that a move will not result in a change of name? It happened with Wimbledon and even Arsenal.
I don't know for certain but that would obviously be a deal-breaker for me.
We're a North London club. It's ridiculous to even consider Stratford. Are there really no other options available to us? If Boris says no.
Spooky between you and Harry Hotspur we've been spoilt with some quality writing. If I'm honest with myself I can see the good and bad of staying or moving but I cant decide. I guess whatever happens I'll still wear the colours and still sign my heart out.
Great read. Even if its left me confused with my attachments to North London.
Nicely written and explained. What amazes me is the apparent disagreement between fans as to what they prefer. I won't put a link but on a site that was updated this morning with how best to go about forming a campaign against moving to stratford just in case people are thinking of such things the vast majority of comments came back saying why would we campaign when it's the better option for the club?
So more people want to go to Stratford than I originally thought. Personally Tottenham is N17. As you say, whatever happens we can kiss goodbye to White Hart Lane. That will no longer be around in 4-5 years. Stratford makes all the right sense financially and logistically. If we were to do it we would be the first big modern day club to move properly from their original area and I bet the likes of Liverpool and Chelsea would follow soon after once they realised the fans still went to watch their team and the fans soon got over the move., because that's what would happen. We would all get over it eventually.
I'm one for staying in N17 but the fact remains if we are the continue with the NDP we will be without money for squad strengthening for a very long time and will HAVE to get the transport links sorted at the same time somehow. More trains, more stations, more parking etc. It's not good enough just increasing the capacity without those things.
Like you I'd be amased if we ended up in Stratford. It's all a smokescreen to get what he wants and Levy in my opinion is pulling a master stroke.
I'd rather be playing Championship football at WHL than Premier League football in Stratford.
Simples.
Time for FC Hotspur of Tottenham!
I'm playing up front!!
Excellent. Sums up exactly how I feel. I don't want us to move but if we do the positives in the long term would be great. Does anyone know when we find out about the decision on the Northumberland Project?
For me, the biggest impact is not where the stadium is but the impact the ground has on the team.
I love the plans for the redeveloped WHL as it has kept the essence of what a football ground should be...fans, close to the pitch, in a hot cauldron of steaming spurs atmosphere.
Any stadium with a running track round it, loses any sense of atmosphere and occassion. Even Emirates (which is a great stadium BTW) didn't consider this factor, and it's worth remembering they haven't won anything since the move.
There is really only one choice here which is to stay at WHL. It's where our roots are and it's where we should always be.
Can someone tell levy for me that a Monorail from Seven Sisters to the new ground will solve the transport problems ans we can stay in Tottenham.
If we moved we would get over it but I would rather stay where our home for 100 years has been. It would be great to regenerate the whole area and see it all change before our eyes.
Not understanding why any Spurs fan would want to leave North London. If we did like Spooky says it would be hard to stomach because change can be a bitch but this disregard for where we are from just because Stratford has tubes and trains its pathetic. If we have to leave because our hands are tied and the club will suffer badly I will support Levy and we should all back the club. But if there is any chance or hope everyone should be praying for us to remain in North London.
HOT SPURS has said all that is required.
Atmosphere is above and beyond EVERYTHING.
well be as bad as the caravan dwelling pikeys from woolwich if we left tottenham
I do wonder what David Lammy's motivations in all of this actually are. As a self proclaimed "lifelong" Spurs fan, he has spent the last week or so highlighting how much Daniel Levy and ENIC are putting money ahead of tradition. Funny that, being that they are primarily businessmen who have invested a huge amount of time and money into the club(which is ultimately a business). He obviously understands how devastating it would be to the local area to lose the club to another borough, but is it because he wants the club there or because he knows that without Spurs the borough is pretty much redundant.
Why is it, that when the initial plans for redevelopment of White Hart Lane where proposed, we didn't hear the MP for Tottenham urging the council that they should green light this redevelopment without any reservations? Perhaps if he'd been more pro-active and vocally supportive of the club then, would we be at this stage now? The club has had to deal with a number of obstacles through the various planning stages and are still faced with opposition from members of the council who reside closer to the old llibrary then they do to White Hart Lane and wouldn't consider stepping foot into Tottenham themselves, as they are far too busy opposing Wetherspoons pubs and branches of McDonalds from tainting the more desirable parts of the borough such as Crouchy End and Muswell Hill. To these people, they just don't understand the relevance of the club and its importance to the borough as a whole. David Lammy does, but it appears to be something that has just dawned on him and now deems that the best way of opposing any move is to publicly attack the motivations of the board. As we all know Levy likes a game of hardball, and David Lammy just isn't in his league.
Vital for Haringy to keep Spurs in N17 and Boris will know this.
http://www.haringey.gov.uk/index/news_and_events/latest_news/keep_spurs_in_tottenham.htm
Good post, spooky.
There is another thing to consider, though. The olympic site is always going to be a heck of a lot easier to get to than WHL. It would not just be about accomodating all those on the waiting list for season tickets but expanding our (admittedly already strong) fanbase. I personally don't mind too much if we leave N17. We are after all the pride of England, not just Haringey
That was an epic Spook and heartfelt....... You're right mate - AS ONE!
I'd rather watch Spurs in the Conference than in the Olympic fucking stadium. The traditions and passion are draining from the game because people accept that 'this is progress'. We slag off Arsenal because they are void of any heart, because of their nomadic history, but yet are ready to sell ourselves down the river by doing the exact same thing 'in the name of progress'.
Moving to Stratford is not acceptable. My hope is that if it does happen a splinter club will be formed where fans who genuinely love Tottenham Hotspur will go and watch their team play. All the rest can fuck off and enjoy their £1000 season tickets, sterile atmosphere, badge kissing bullshit players, franchise of a football club.
Another excellent post Spooky.
I personally have had splinters from the fence sitting. My heart says no- but my business head would say- do it- it expands the club, in terms of fan-base, generates better revenue and would help secure the long term future of the club. So as it stands now, my left buttock has less splinters than the right.
any help?
@Spanish Spur
As long as it's easier to get to mate.
Que Sera Sera
Do I want to see my beloved team play in Stratford? Yeeeennnnnnnnyeeeeeaaaannnnnnnyyeeeeaaaaannnnnnn.... I just don't know anymore. Great piece though Spooky...
I'd grudgingly accept a move to Stratford like you Spooky. Don't get why so many Spurs fans are so pro-Stratford. Personally believe that the amount of dis-association with things many might consider small and insignificant (match day stuff like the pubs and streets in and around WHL) build up to something that we'll lose if we move.
Just to comment on the atmosphere thing. The reason the Emirates is as quiet as it is isn't just because of the stadium design. Sure, a design can be modified to help keep some of the noise inside but mainly it's down to the fans. The reason it's quiet most of the time is the same reason Highbury was quiet.
It's also the same reason why half the home games this season at White Hart Lane have been quiet.
It's up to fans to make a noise and when it's quiet we can't blame the design of the stadium.
Isn't it also the case that the Premier League would have to ratify Spurs moving to Stratford, as there are rulings that state clubs cannot infringe on another clubs traditional territory and fanbase, I can't imagine Sullivan and Gold being too happy about that, although I suppose Championship clubs don't get a vote on Premier League issues!
We'll make noise even if we end up playing football in a vacuum devoid of air. Although WHL has been a little bit on the quiet side this season.
I hate the idea of moving to Stratford a little more today than I did yesterday. Great piece Spooky, I can tell you are conflicted but willing to go with it if happens. I dont think any Spurs would stop supporting their team if we moved.
Have to stay at home. Moving is dismal as the traditions that have been built are soaked into concrete, steel, glass and grass. I say this from the other side of the planet, never having visited the Lane. So some could question the validity of my opinion. So to illustrate, we have Australian football which in the 90's really flourished and tv rights became king. Clubs used to survive on members, members drawn from the local area. But when tv money overtook gate receipts the finances changed and so too has the soul. I know a lot of guys who no longer buy into the AFL because the soul is gone. How can't it change for the worse? It might seem far flung now but ground sharing would be almost inevitable. In the 80s there were 7 grounds used in Melbourne. For the last decade 90% of games are played in one of two venues. It's not the same. The memories are bland. Corporatised. The comradery from shot transport links, crap food, standing in pissing rain to support the team is gone in the sterile super stadium that isn't our home. Im rambling. Stay home. To move is a slipperier slope that it might first appear...
It's the media taking mundane streams of work Levy has to work through and turning it into a hyperbole of commentary when it hardly warrants it. We wont be moving from north London.
I love the journey in from Liverpool St to WHL. And journey home especially if we've won. Would miss the shit hole that is Tottenham if we left it behind. Don't give a fuck about people driving into the area in their Mercs.
Well written
My opinion is like yours. If we do move though I'll support it. The club is bigger than me or anyone else. Those who are at the helm are the ones we should trust to do the right thing.
I'd be concerned though that
a. we'd be just like the cunts up the road...on someone else's turf
b. we'd end up like MK Dons/AFC wimbledon
c. the Olympic stadium will be shit for football
d. the romance of and the identity of the club will slowly die...tottenham in stratford?....its like saying Scotland in England..
"Tottenham Hotspur, the experience, it's match-day traditions and its soul is in the heart of N17, Tottenham. It's home. Even with the police signs calling for witnesses littering the high road and the distinct lack of pretty buildings. It's home. The pubs and the long walk down from Seven Sisters. The ridiculous queues to get a train from White Hart Lane station into Liverpool Street post-match"
It's HOME
Solid writing Spooks.
Have to disagree though. I think its time we moved on. The money to be made out of moving to Stratford is far too much to ignore. And even though its surrounding are is a dump its still better than North London.
The money we would make out of staying in N 17 with a new stadium will probably amount to as much.
Not if we can have 10,000 more seats in the Olympic Stadium,
What is often forgotten is that for some people WHL is easy to get to. I will always get the train in on from Ware on the Hertford East line - 1/2 journey and even manage to get a seat. Moving to Stratford completely changes the goal posts for some - I for one have never been there nor do I intend to go there. To me, it is equivalent to Wimbledon moving to Milton Keynes. I will always love the Spurs, but tradition and the teams "home" are part of this.
I live in Walthamstow. Piece of piss to get there.
http://www.petitiononline.co.uk/petition/say-no-to-stratford-hotspur/434
Don't forget to sign the petition.
I may have got the wrong end of the stick, here, so if I'm up shite-creek without a paddle, do please elucidate.
Is not the Olympic Stadium (yes, just one, or else one might call them stadia) scheduled for demolition and rebuilding if and when Tottenham get it? If so, why not build the Northumberland Development Project design on top of the Olympic site? Then even the most sold-out games might leave a little breathing space in the gods and the odd urinal into which to piss? And with a fair chance of a tube/overground journey home that gets you home before MOTD?
As many of you will recall of your first visit to the Lane like me in the early-sixties, just what a Beirut-resembling, East Berlin in 1963, Moss Side Manchester dump our hallowed ground was sited – and every time I go it gets more favela-like . Do you think that those long shorted, furiously side burned, leviathans from our Hackney Mashes and Northumberland Park tenancies wee-weed themselves stupid when Carrington's offered them some green houses just off Tottenham High Street? Did they feck? They saw an opportunity to improve the club, attract as many people as possible to watch them and develop from Southern League / Second Division standards into what was achievable.
Just whom among our little circle of correspondents lives in postcode N17?
OK... in the LB of Haringey? No? None? ....North Middlesex?
Within 15 miles??
Can drive and park for free and unmolested within 15 minutes of Park Lane?
What's all this NLD - North London derby - crap? We are now well beyond that. We should be looking at the London Derby... Spurs vs whomsoever the gods of arithmetic sling our way. Forget the pikeys down the road and the chavs from Novosibirsk SW87.
If the rebuild of WHL comes off, so good. If it's goona cost too much or is too politically expensive - feck 'em! A stadium of the KSS/Happold quality - but 70,000+ rather than 56K - with proper transport links, adequate parking, toilets for all, and most importantly a future!!! That's what Tottenham needs and deserves. How come those tiny clubs in Madrid, Barcelona, Milan and, dare I say it, Avenell Road can pull off the seismic move, why not Spurs? Are we too attached to our slum surrounds? Does playing in the Third World really offer suc a cachet?
Rant over! Nuff said.
Nurse! Nurse!! Where's me medication??
Geographically where do Spurs fans travel in from? I'm certain Tottenham would have done their research on this.
Bravo Spooky! Bravo!
The "easier to get to" thing for Stratford is a complete load of tripe. It should more accurately be "easier to get to by train", those of us who drive will be even more fucked than we are currently. There might be some In off the North Circ and through Leyton will be a much bigger nightmare than the short hop up the A10 into Tottenham, ditto that for access from the East to the olympic stadium via the Lea Valley Road.
Season ticket holder for 14 years (over half my life). I wouldn't care anymore if we moved to Stratford - would no longer have a club.
great piece of writing , Spooky
As a foreign fan i have less of an emotional bond with the area surrounding the Lane , although my annual visit to the ground remains the most important day of the year. The hassle to get to N17 , the long walks, the packed trains and the old fashioned ground offer both pro's and con's. I find myself wishing for a bigger stadium which would allow me to come a lot more often and easier (more comfort and so on) but it would take away the feeling of going back in to time that always haunts me on my way to the lane. The beaten down feeling of the area and the public transport makes the WHL experience a sort of time travel.
But we are one of the only top 20 european clubs (money wise we are in that top 20) with such a relatively small stadium and that's holding us back (long term) , i don't think any of us really want to leave the area and ideally the new and improved Lane will be approved. But i just don't think we can afford it and what's worse , it would take a lot more time to build a new ground than to just transform an existing spanking new stadium
But that's just the business side and again , as a foreign yid i can't really understand the deeper notions of east vs north ...
I love the club and will follow the club to the East if that is what it takes for us to progress.
"well be as bad as the caravan dwelling pikeys from woolwich if we left tottenham"..... My sentiments entirely emailyiddo. And therein lies the nub of the matter. One other small point. Yes, the walk to White Heart Lane is a pain in the arse.... but my, how the heart beats faster as the legs step out further and the voices get louder those last few hundred yards to the stadium.... sentimental? Yes. Impractical? No.
We are on the cusp of a new age folks; one which won't be ALL about money. Mark my words, in this "brave new world" the TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR brand is (and will be more so) priceless. Not Hotspur. Not Stratford. Not Albatross Airlines or whatever global player is interested in it, TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR.
Do the player peer out of their tinted windowed motors and complain on the occassional drive down/up The Seven Sisters Road (even that street/road name oozes branding potential). Do they fuck. Would they coo at the trees dotted around the Olympic stadium. No sodding way. Cheshunt is where they work (or should do) and that will soon be state-of-the-art.... they don't give a fuck one way or the other about history and tradition (and I'm not criticising them either; they know no better!).
My question is this. Are we "fans" or are we "punters"?
Shit.... I've gone on a bit there spooky.
We'll still be Spurs no matter where we play. Hope we stuff the scummers tomorrow . Early doors beer for me . COYS
@czyrko
Lived in N17 for 30+ years, my dad has for 60 years now and alright it may not be the leafiest suburb in town, but the clubs foundations were built on the working class roots of the area and the people within it. I understand the point that you attempt to make but it becomes pretty hollow when you attack the local area and dismiss the local population with such ease. I take great pride in being able to walk to the stadium, through Bruce Castle Park, taking in a pre match pint at the Bell & Hare and a post match chicken box meal from Chick King. Things like this are the fabric on which the club was formed and the only ties that many football fans have to the game that was the staple of the working classes. Take that away and we may aswell shut up shop. So please take your Man City ideals and jog on.
czyrko - Cracker of a post. You bastard.
Dearest Flav (12.22)
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"I'd rather watch Spurs in the Conference than in the Olympic fucking stadium."
See ya' then! Bye-bye!!
"We slag off Arsenal because they are void of any heart"
No ... it's cos they're cunts. Silly boy.
"Moving to Stratford is not acceptable."
Why? Do you have creditors there?
"... a splinter club will be formed where fans who genuinely love Tottenham Hotspur will go and watch their team play."
Oh dear. This worked so well at Old Trefford didn't it? Their bankruptcy was certainly expecged!!
"All the rest can fuck off"
Now, now, dear. Chill!
"enjoy their £1000 season tickets, sterile atmosphere, badge kissing bullshit players, franchise of a football club."
Oh! And I thought we were talking about football, not Arse 'n' all?
Pip, pip
"things like this are the fabric on which the club was formed and the only ties that many football fans have to the game that was the staple of the working classes"
The above is what all these pro Stratford lot are missing.
Czyrko you are correct in that we are not special enough not to move from N17 but the point being made is that we can move but stay in N17 rather than move outside of North London.
If it was a move to another part of NL I doubt many of us myself included would be this bothered about it. But I am.
I don't want us to move to Stratford.
Who's you calling a barsterd, Spooks?
I may have got the training ground address wrong... but you get the drift. Also, I too live abroad. I'm not a "foreign fan" I'm an expatriate but I put in a good shift at The Lane when in lived in London so feel justified in my comments.
Further, a little bit odd-ball at first perhaps, but our club name is a big, big talking point when English football is being discussed this side of the channel.... Don't laugh at it, knock it or, worse, debase it you lot on the whatever floor at White Hart Lane !!
Ask any original Wimbledon fan their opinion of MK Dons?
If the club is not in Tottenham it ain't Tottenham Hotspurs... Simples
All that will have gone before will die guaranteed.
You may see in the future Sky Sports playing clips of our heroes lifting the cup but it will be a complete contradiction, it will not be Tottenham Hotspurs in the future, you will bebrainwashed to think so (short term only though!).
Imagine MK Dons in the Premiership now and highlights of their upcoming fixture against Liverpool on Sky? Do you think they would show clips of Wimbledons FA Cup triumph and cheeky Dennis Wise celebrating? No of course not, most MK Dons fans are from MK and don’t give a .... about Wimbledon or their loyal past fans and players who now support AFC.
Memories are made from the present and the future. 99.9% of hard core traditionalist Spurs fans will not accept the move including myself after 36 years.
The future is Stratford Hotspurs and that just aint' Tottenham.
Be careful what you wish for Spurs fans it will be the end as you know it and life would never feel the same again.
Watch the season ticket waiting list collapse and in years to come Stratford Hotspurs will be in majority a whole new breed of premiership football whores with no passion of the histroy.
Myself my children and future generations will not grow up supporting such a franchise - period.
I here certain individuals (mainly youths with no history) stating that regardless of where Spurs are located we need the move to grow etc etc and become a force.
Well we are not doing bad at 36,000 at the moment and the NRP would be 56,000 imagine!!
Example Gary Mabbutt , Glen Hoddle, Danny Blanchflower, jimmy Greaves and all the other legends will they then become Straford Hotspur legends?
NO!!
Ask Vinny Jones if he is a MK Dons legend ?
Go on I dare you!!!
No to Tottinghamization please please.
I repeat - Be careful what you wish for Spurs fans it will be the END as you know it and life would never feel the same again.
A hardcore loving Tottenham Hotspur FC fan 100%.
Famous quote from Keith Burkinshaw’ There once was a Football Club there’ how unimaginablytrue this quote could be when WHL no longer.
COYS.