Olympic Stadium chit chat with Spurs and West Ham fans
Monday, January 10, 2011 at 9:19PM You might have seen one or two people interviewed over the FA Cup weekend, at the Lane and in the depths of the East End. Question posed; Stratford, yes or no? Here's a short preview montage of opinions. As you might (quite obviously) expect both sets of fans are pretty much of the same fragmented opinions we've argued about plenty of times here and on practically every other discussion board and blog that has asked the same question. Some like the idea, some don't. And some really don't.
No big shock here. Would be interested to know whether West Ham fans want to move there as much as some of us don't. Equally so the fans that do want a move. Curious that one of the West Ham fans thought they could fill the OS and one Spurs fan thought we've got the money to just go ahead with the Northumberland Project.
Referendum anyone?
For the full videos for both sets of fans, Spurs and West Ham - click below:
Be sure to visit We are N17 for your anti-Stratford fix and latest news. You can also find them on Twitter and Facebook.
Previous Stratford/N17 articles:
N17: Home is where the heart is
A nail in the coffin of Stratford?
For some, it's a brutal interrogation...
If Stratford Hotspur happens...it ends there (guest blog tehTrunk)
And as an alternative form of petition against moving out of North London and into East London...click and follow: FC Hotspur of Tottenham.
Reader Comments (69)
That first Spurs fan is an idiot. NO TO STRATFORD!
It'd be great for me if we moved to Stratford, I would only have 4 stops on the central line. Save me a fortune on petrol as well!
Groundshare?? Less capital investment in stadium means less effect on ability to buy quality players and pay their wages. That's the least painful option financially, and probably the wisest in the long run too. BUT... I'm not sure if I could stomach it, and neither could Haringey, which is already one of the poorest boroughs in the country.
The whole Northumberland Project should have been wrapped up with heavy investment in improving the area, starting with better transport links. A proper tube station would be massively expensive, but would cater for the increased crowd numbers and it would also spark the regeneration of an area where housing is relatively cheap, compared to the rest of London.
It's a shame there isn't any money about to complete the vision - it's all gone to Stratford for the Olympics (and up the noses of the fookin bankers of course).
Sam Barton I hate you and your opinions are not valid!!!
Is that a bit harsh?
It would be interesting to know what percentage of our 38,000 home fans live nearer to WHL than Stratford?
hi spooky
is there a website for anyone who is pro stratford?
Hi Ham. I'm sure there are pro-Stratford supporters, but for them it's win win, so they don't bother too much with the protests and articles (although there is plenty of debate on forums). Pro-Stratters win if we move and win if we stay put and build on current site.
Anti-Strats, we lose if we move. Only win if we stay.
Good point, just about sums up my views exactly.
even though i am not opposed to moving to stratford ,with reservations, i really dont think it will happen
its a ploy by levi to secure some public money, and it suits the olympic brigade that west ham keep the running track
who without spurs` interest would have pushed to remove it.
Take it by the use of the word , we, that you have fallen on the anti side then
Wet Spam have such delusions of granduer its untrue..!! As the bloke quite rightly said "we cant even fill Upton Pk"......Rubbish Yo Yo club with no history COYS
The starting premise for the argument in favor of a move to the Olympic Stadium is that it will increase revenue. It seems to be a natural and intuitive assumption. But I wonder how much thought went into the actual accounting to support the premise.
One of the West Ham supporters called bullshit on the move; doubting that they could fill the extra capacity. And there already exists a vocal contingent of Spurs fans set strongly against the move. Would a moderate increase in revenue justify the move?
If the owners simply have plans to sell the team at a profit then perhaps the move makes either team more attractive to investors.
How can anyone agreeing with moving to Stratford possibly be an idiot, today's game is all about revenue and the ability to maintain and increase it, not be confined to mediocrity simply because some prefer to sit in Chelsea coloured seats in an area thats got absolutely nothing to do with the modern day club. Hotspur F.C. )as it was called originally) happened because, came into being because the people of Tottenham wanted it. Today the people of Essex and Middlesex are equally entitled to watch a great side playing in a modern stadium with decent transport links and infrastructure suitable for the modern fan to enjoy. All this without having to pander and PAY for a far more expensive option that'll take us donkeys years to repay, how that stupid?. Oh yeah I do want my cake and expect to eat it!. Dont give that history bullshit either, I watch eleven players, I dont give a toss about where so long as its top level football, and the Haringey option doesn't fit the bill!
I live in Haringey (the N8 end and I'm cool with the move to Stratford).
What I'm not cool with is the club being burdened with debt. Unless we get massive assistance to redevelop the transport infrastructure (tube and overland train) there's no way the WHL refurb will work.
You don't need to be a genius to realise that massive public investment in Haringey right now is not exactly top of the Govt's agenda. And if you care about N17 (as I do) I'm not sure £60k crowds would be all that good for the HIgh Road area anyway. It only works down the road at Arsenal because they sit on top of a train station and two local tubes.
Much as I'd love to stay at WHL in a bigger, refurbed stadium it ain't gonna happen. Choice is, stay where we are, watch Arsenal pull away when they repay the debt (or when Usmanov/Kroeke finally takes over) and watch West Ham get Stratford on the cheap, or...
...Move to Stratford.
"Today the people of Essex and Middlesex are equally entitled to watch a great side playing in a modern stadium with decent transport links and infrastructure suitable for the modern fan to enjoy."
Entitlement is where you're wrong, pal. Nobody is entitled to anything (you could say that Spurs supporters deserve great football, but you could say that Haringey deserves a fair shake from the club), but it's even worse to say that when you don't even live in London...sorry, you chose to move way the hell out, you can choose to support another team.
It used to be that clubs were part of the community. The community still supports the club, but clearly many on here don't want it to be a two-way street. Sorry if that sounds moralizing; I just think that you can't put a price on things like decency---I'd rather loan money to my family than see them struggle while I stay rich.
Why are we even considering moving to Stratford!!!!! I realise that the figure we are quoted as saving is around the £150 mil mark, but why even move if we can't push forward with the Northumberland park project???!!!! I pointed out the obvious yesterday, in that a relocation would lead to us having to legally change our name, though I was lambasted immediately. I did enjoy the fact that the 'supporter' in question was tagged as 'all Tottenham fans forever ever', or somethimg of a similarly ironic ilk - hilarious....... Unfortunately, those fans who are 'Tottenham Till they die' haven't really thought through this declaration, as the club will no longer be called Tottemham. It will be some mutation of our present registered title. The most appealing, in my opinion, to be Hotspur F.C. Not quite Totteham Hotspur F.C, is it? So, anyone suggesting they are 'Tottenham till they die' and proclaim to be pro Stratford ought to really, really, really think through what it is they are declaring. All this ironic lark can get awfully confusing, you see....... It makes it difficult to work out whether you are making a wonderfully ironic and subltle criticism of those morons who would make such a ridiculous error, or are, in fact, a moron making this very moronic mistake.
"I'm sure there are pro-Stratford supporters, but for them it's win win, so they don't bother too much with the protests and articles (although there is plenty of debate on forums). Pro-Stratters win if we move and win if we stay put and build on current site. Anti-Strats, we lose if we move. Only win if we stay."
The Stratfordites will always be losers as the Tottenham fans will always be able to hold their heads high, safe in the knowledge that they're not turncoat, scabby scum.
If Tottenham Hotspur did cease to exist by default if Tottenham were no longer to have its Hotspur, what meaningless and shameful events parading any trophies won in Stratford would be.
Would the Stratfordites realise then that they are supporting a different club, as the parade couldn't possibly go ahead in Tottenham, or would the delusion continue?
You're marginalising yourselves in your support for Stratford to the point where you're not welcome by true Tottenham fans.
You are either pro Tottenham or pro Stratford. This 'I would prefer Tottenham but I'm not opposed to Stratford' is wishy washy, fence sitting cowardice.
What's it going to be, Tottenham or Stratford?
me thinks its time for a london club to have the word"london" in their name before one of the other london clubs use it..how a bout"london spurs"?......
It's strange that London doesn't have a London City or United, but it's too late for all that now.
We are Tottenham!
......well, most of us anyway.
I can’t believe I read through all those comments on the ‘If Stratford Hotspur happens...it ends there (guest blog tehTrunk)’ (well actually there were 160 comments when I read it and now there are over 390 comments and it keeps on growing!) but it has been entertaining even though considering what is at stake is so important. There have been a lot of really good contributions from the ‘remain in N17’ viewpoint and some good ones arguing the benefits of the OS move, and there were a few of which were overstepping in insulting terms from both sides but that’s unsurprising as it’s such an emotive subject.
So I’m not going to cuss people calling them ‘sell-outs’ or ‘gooners’ if they are pro-Stratford but I definitely want to stay in Tottenham and if the Stratford move goes ahead then I will reluctantly follow but it would not be the same. It is a bit ironic how 97 years later Arsenal from Woolwich has potentially managed to achieve their aim of squeezing the existing football club i.e. Tottenham Hotspur FC out of North London. Who knows at this rate in another 100 years it might turn full circle and we might be in Woolwich and Charlton Athletic or Eltham Town fans will be singing "f*** off back to North London", hehe!
Please indulge me as I appear to stray off subject for a minute or two into a trail of seemingly useless information.
In the West End of London there is only one pub on the whole of Oxford Street and do you know what it’s called? It’s called ‘The Tottenham’ and that is at the end of the road near another road called ‘Tottenham Court Road’. Which, as any cab driver would tell you, is the only ‘Road’ in the West End as all others are named ‘Street’, ‘Place’, ‘Mews’, ‘Yard’, etc.
There is also a rather nice Fish & Chip plaice (sorry poor pun couldn’t resist) called Gigs (no Manchester connection) about half way up just off Tottenham Court Road and is owned by a family of gooners (but credit where credit is due the food is rather good and there’s no hint of gooner paraphernalia anywhere to put you off your chips!). Anyway this establishment is on ‘Tottenham Street’. Now if we get back onto Tottenham Court Road and continue our northward journey where do we get to? No, no, no, not Mornington Crescent, FFS! (For those of you old enough to remember that farcical game show on Radio 4). It is of course Warren Street a place where you can step on board an express portal (a.k.a Victoria Line) that transports you in 15 minutes to Seven Sisters where you can choose whether to combine the walk/bus/over-ground with or without a pub crawl to your final destination (or get out at Tottenham Hale if you’re in a rush and need a cab!)
Coming back to the useless trivia as far as I know there are no streets in the West End of London containing the name Stratford or Woolwich or Arsenal (or Chelsea or West Ham for that matter). Okay there is one but that doesn’t count as it’s only a ‘Place’ but it might start to count if the rumours are true; a little clue it is the one beginning with S. Oh now I come to think of it there is a Manchester Street too so that might partly explain their geographical fan base distribution.
Okay I’m digressing massively like Ronnie Corbett trying to explain as concisely as possible how he just popped out for a pint of milk!
So I was describing one of the ways I have travelled to WHL. I don’t see it as something to endure but more as a fun part of the pre-match build up. So let us imagine London is the face of a clock and WHL is on the dial at a little bit past 12 o’clock so why are we contemplating moving clockwise to just before 3 o’clock on the dial to occupy the Olympic Stadium?
To those who say if you draw a line from A to B then it is only 5 miles from point to point I say forget distance look at the clock instead. It says it is roughly like moving 3 hours clockwise around the dial. That would be the equivalent of moving time zone from London to Moscow or the Middle East. This may be a coincidental unintended benefit if ENIC’s ultimate goal is to find a potential suitor with billions in gas & oil wealth in order to sell the franchise on as that is what THFC will become in fact the name would have to change to SHFC.
The only way we could get away without having to change the name to Stratford would be to completely drop Tottenham and just be Hotspur F.C. just like if Woolwich Arsenal had tried to keep Woolwich they would have been forced to change their name to Highbury or Islington Arsenal so they just dropped Woolwich. It will be a sad day if we end up moving to east London. No more NLDs instead it will be ELDs with West Ham if they are still in same division and what of Leyton Orient.
I know thankfully it’s still hypothetical as no decision has been made yet but let’s suppose the following scenario has occurred:
We are now safely installed into the shiny new Stratford olympic-legacy-is-somewhere-else-shopping-dinning-sporting-utopian-ingress-and-egress-transport-infrastructure-links-golden-egg-laying-hen-of-a-multiplex or called the New White Hart Lane hopefully shortened to White Hart Lane and the home faithful are singing:
"We are Tottenham, We are Tottenham, Super Tottenham, From the Lane..."
But what do I hear the opposing fans singing back at us there and at every away ground?
"You are Stratford, You are Stratford, Sh!tty Stratford, From West Ham Lane...You are Pikeys, East End Pikeys, You are Pikeys from West Ham Lane"
To avoid this unpleasant stigma we should embrace the name Stratford from the start, do the whole move properly. Also when the man who drums "Da! Da! Da-Da-Da-Da-Da!" and we normally chant "Yids!" we should change this too by adopting the derogatory word of the oppressed people in our new neighbourhood as our new badge of honour and chant "Pikeys!" defiantly instead. Henceforth we will be known as the ‘Pikeys’ and not ‘Yids’ a small price to pay for progress, hehe!
Okay I suppose we could get around it all by just substituting Hotspur wherever the world Tottenham appears in our existing chants. So for example Chas and Dave’s classic could be remixed as "Glory Glory Hotspur Hotspur" or "Glory Glory Glory Hotspur" or may be just have 2 glories and hold the Hot in the Hotspur for a bit longer like Ronnie Barker as ‘Arkwright’ stuttering the words "Glory Glory Ho-ha-hotspur" to Granville or even better Nurse Gladys, hmmm Nurse Gladys.. Ahem, excuse me!
Sorry for the length of this rambling. In short I don’t want to leave N17 and I hope a way will be found to stay but if we do move then somehow I will have to reconcile that it is still Tottenham Hotspur FC even though clearly it won’t be and it is too late in the day for me to find another football team to support. God this so emotionally draining the irrational love one has for a football team. Okay I want to forget about this for now and turn my energies towards a hoping for victory against Manchester United on Sunday. The future is bright the future is lilywhite, COYS!!!
There is no legal reason why Spurs would have to change their name if they move. I'm not saying I support the move, but some of the assertions above are just not true. Who exactly would be in a position to legally challenge the use of the word Tottenham? Sugar tried to stop street traders from selling unofficial merchandise with the word Tottenham years ago and failed miserably, the courts declaring that no one person or organisation could patent a place name. That, my friends, applies to Haringey council too. So please, lets try to stick to the facts when debating this point.
My personal view is that the Northumberland development plans are a farce. How the hell can we get 60k people to the stadium? Its all very well saying we managed it in the past, but that is to ignore demographics. In the past the support was overwhelmingly local (Tottenham, Edmonton, Wood Green, etc). Of course there were the exotic 'commuters' - notably jewish communities from north west London and the WAGN train 'corridor' up the lea valley to Harlow and Bishops Stortford. But it was easy for them - the train goes straight to WHL / Northumberland Park, while those driving faced far less traffic and no parking restrictions (there were simply far less cars then). Today it wont happen - i am sure a mathametician can prove that getting 60k people to WHL today, with the proposed parking restrictions in place (baisically no parking within 2 miles of the new stadium) will be an impossibility, unless 30k of them are forced to get to the ground 3 hours before kick-off. Even with a single tube line (the Vic) it will be tough. The only option for me, short of a massive upgrading of the area's transport (aint happening) is to stay where we are, re-build the east stand to take the capacity to 40k, and restrict the number of away fans to the current smaller entitlement. Because you wil NEVER get an extra 20k people up that high road.
This is a topic that I have attempted to dissect endlessly on more forums and chat logs than I care to remember. All kinds of reactions pop up when this is mentioned, ranging from the fervently pro-Stratford who are absolutely furious that their (in their opinion) moronic fellow supporters cannot see the supposed financial ruin staring them in the face if we stay, to all the way across the spectrum to the foaming, rabid N17-ers who resemble the screaming, shrill lynch-mob leaders of the Deep South in the States in the 1800's, declaring that anyone who disagrees with their views are not Tottenham supporters at all and are 'turncoats', 'sell-outs', 'yellow scum', and 'Stratford filth'. I'm pretty sure someone, somewhere is using the terms 'Gooner sympathizer' and 'Pikey dirt' as I attempt to type as well. It is eerily reminiscent of George Bush's 'you're either with us or against us' declaration all those years back.Then there's the ones in the middle, the ones who remain undecided, those who can see both the benefits of a move to Stratford and feel the emotional tug keeping them in the bronzed old days, in N17. Both of the pro and anti-Stratfordites attempt to sway this segment to their side, and again, both are not particularly understanding in these matters. High-nosed stratfordites will furiously declare that they will be the bankruptcy of the club if they express disapproval about Stratford, and the witch-hunting N17-ers will call them traitors, Spammers and Gooners in disguise if they dare to disapprove of staying in N17. The way I look at it, the whole issue boils down to geography and age. Geography is fairly simple to grasp, those who live in the direct vicinity of the Lane(i.e in Haringey) seem to be overwhelmingly in favour of staying in N17. Those living outside Haringey, in the Home Counties, or anywhere else in Britain, really, are divided, but I'd say, judging by the number of people from essex and the like who express approval about Stratford, are pro-Stratford, if only slightly. Whereas the huge number of Spurs supporters living overseas don't really know which one to go for, one way or another, and it is these people that are the middle-ground, so to speak, though they would probably not have the emotional connection to N17 that the local people do, and thus I'm assuming tend to gravitate towards Stratford more, if only for reasons of economics. Then, age. The older supporters, those who have had time to establish match-day traditions, venerate the local history and Spurs culture around Haringey, and, by dint of seeing their beloved side play for so many years in their spiritual home of Tottenham, overwhelmingly support staying put. But the younger generation of fans, those who have only been supporting Tottenham for the last ten years or so, those who have seen Arsenal get their mega stadium, Chelsea move ahead of us in the London stature rivalry, and didn't have that much time to really appreciate Haringey, the Lane and its environs, would actually favour Stratford more. So, old 'uns versus young 'uns on this.Though, again, this is a gross generalisation, because I've missed out on the last major factor; family allegiances. If any of your family have been going to matches at the Lane for a long time (15 or so plus years), and you're youger than them, you would be pro-N17. I'm talking mainly about the father-son relationship here, but any family member who is that way will do, really.you're pro- N17. Whereas sons or daughters of families where the older members haven't gone to matches at the Lane all that much will be much more relaxed about the prospect of a move to Stratford, if only because of the older members'(parents, mostly) lack of passion on the N17 option or subject. But you have to remember, everything I've just noted above is a sweeping generalisation, and there are sure to be many, many exceptions. I'm only speaking from personal experience, arguing the topic time and time again. But this is what I've seen. As for me, well, I'm one of the many 'ambivalents', though I'm inclined towards Stratford, purely because of the economics and the ease of access, though I appreciate the passion in N17 and the passion about staying there, and therefore I can't slag off N17-ers or definitively argue for Stratford, since I've not been to many matches at the Lane in my eleven-year spell as a long-suffering Spurs supporter (Three, at last count, all in the last three years) and therefore am not entitled to argu about the passion and heritage of N17, something I know very little of. But the only thing about N17-ers that annoys me is the phrase 'you're either with us or against us'. So people aren't spurs supporters if they see the benefits of a move? Blatantly moronic attitude, stupid and narrow-minded. As for Stratfordites, well, the notion that everyone who feels that dedication to the history of the club and the passion for the heritage are clueless idiots with no grasp of modern economics in football is pretty pissing off too.
So in short DubaiSpur, you've added nothing to the argument at all. ;-)
I've been guilty of getting a bit carried on this one, but to put it simply, those in favour of Stratford are just plain wrong.
*carried away
Actually, TMWNN, I've added so much to both sides of the argument that I've cancelled myself out.;)
I don't want us to move ...... But we have to if we are to sustain progress in modern football.
If there was no premier league, no sky and no prospect of a European super league we could have kept the ideals of a community club. If we don't want a part of a new global football we can stay community focused.
In the end it's all about money and where you want hotspur fc to be globally.
Personally I like the idea of supporting tottenham , although not under the epically shit name of fc hotspur of tottenham.
Dubai Spur: Can't see a new location adding much to your journey time.
Anyone know when the decision will actually be made?
I've signed the petition but I've forgotten why.
Too old to change the habits of a lifetime probably
If the money men get a chance at Stratford they will take it.
Because they're money men.
Daniel has got used to Spooky sitting in his tree, even sends him out coffee and biscuits occasionally so no new threat there.
Oh yes he does, I've seen the footage.
@Paul F (Jan 11, 2011 at 9:42 AM) - I was trying to be funny, or sarcastic at worst, of course you are right the name Tottenham would not legally be at issue wherever THFC is based. But how long did it take Woolwich Arsenal to drop the name Woolwich? I guess what I'm highlighting, as I suppose many others have, is if we move to Stratford there will be a short to medium term sense of confusion in our identity i.e. Are we a North London club yet based in East London? So you could see a scenario where the name Tottenham is dropped to become just Hotspur FC or London Hotspur FC. Fair enough you could say West Ham United isn’t even in the West Ham area either so according to my logic I should be demanding they change their name to East Ham United.
I'm with you in terms of if the Northumberland Park project doesn't go ahead then we could just redevelop the East Stand for now. As far as the practicalities of the increase in volume of people due to the proposed 56k NPP capacity I find at most venues getting there is not the problem because the arrivals are naturally staggered over time it is the getting away that is the real problem. At least with the tube stations so diabolically far away from WHL that there is a natural spread in traffic as people are walking back down the High Road (or perhaps nipping into one of the numerous pubs around the ground for a post-match pint) to enable Seven Sisters and Tottenham Hale to cope. Trying to get away from Wembley or the Emirates is not great either; even though those stadia have stations close by you end up being herded (kettling is too strong a term but it’s not pleasant) and then being filtered very slowly through police lines.
Anyway I don't know what the answer is if we can still compete financially as things are then let’s keep the status quo until things get better in the economy and central investment for infrastructure improvements is more forthcoming. I can see why people want the Stratford move because of all the public money that has been thrown at the Olympics and it would be a shame for West Ham to steal a march on us by getting it on the cheap; and regardless of what league position they end up in their owners would see that as a massive coup to fatten them up for a sale.
Arrgh, I’m going round in circles a bit like 'Dubai Spur' above. My head hurts I’m going to leave it now.
Oh and JimmyG2 "Dubai Spur: Can't see a new location adding much to your journey time." hehe, that's classic!
As far as a decision for the Olympic Stadium I believe it will be made around beginning of March
"We all need places in which we recognise ourselves and in which others can recognise us as easily as we recognise them."
Marc Augé
Even if I were in favour of Spurs moving to Stratford, which I am not, I would rather WHam get the stadium. Why? Because they've made a ridiculous committment to keep the stadium as it is today - a vast concrete bowl with a running track around it. It always amuses me that people seem to think this can be fixed by bolting a few seats over the track when it isnt being use. Which planet of stupidility do these people inhabit? Bolting seats onto a track might give a pitch side view to those couple of thousand who get those seats, but the rest of the stands, miles away from the pitch, stay intact. WHam playing there will be amazingly funny. Sure there'll be a 2 year period of excitement where they get big crowds, but it'll be followed by years of decline, where people simply cant be bothered going, simply refuse to pay money to sit miles away from the action, uncovered (the roof will only cover a few rows of seats), in a bowl completely void of atmosphere. They'll be lucky to bottom out at 10k hard core nutters. If you want precedents for this, just check out what happened to Italian clubs when they were forced to move into communal stadia built primarily for athletics. Juve at the Stadio della Alpi is a classic example: The biggest club in Italy, yet they struggled to get 20k people into the ground. WHam fans are in denial if they cannot see this. A move to that stadium, keeping it as it is now, will be the death of the club. The only winners would be Gold&Sullivan, who will wipe out the debt by selling Uption Park and sell on the club to a deluded foreigner who think he'll be able to fill the ground with paying fans, and Dagenham & Redbridge
Desktop, some of your previous comments have been eloquently stated (reminding me of a certain 9_37 who used to post on another blog). Judging by that quote, you're against the move - what are your thoughts?
Thought that was pro-N17 that statement.
without trying to offend any fellow lilly whites i cannot understand anyone who thinks the stratford move is a good idea. sure if you live closer that would be nice....who cares? isnt the trvelling part of the day? (coming from bournemouth for all games i think i can judge that rather well) then again maybe the travelling is personal preference and some fans would rather step out of the front door nip to the game and be back home by 5.30..... move closer.
i think back at the 125 anniversary game against aston villa, cast your mind back to younes kaboul smashing the ball into the roof of the net to make it 4-4 in the final minute.....typical tottenham, end to end game, fascinating to watch, making it interesting for the whole 90 minutes....think of the games that our grand old stadium has witnessed over the years from the glory glory euro nights of the past to the inception of the premier league...AND THE PLAYERS! jeez! jimmy greeves, mackay, klinsmann, gazza, mabbutt, perryman, hoddle, ardiles, waddle.....the list is absolutely endless. in both ways..segei rebrov, gregorz rasiak, ronnie the rocket......im kind of getting off the point here but get excited thinking about all the greats weve had at white hart lane.
and hence i circle back nicely to my original argument, 2 parts of the above paragraph "typical tottenham" and "the greats weve had at white hart lane".....tottenham! not typical hotspurs, typical stratford....doesnt work. neither does bale lighting up the left wing ripping apart the worlds best right back at the mighty home of the spurs..the world famous olympic stadium. SERIOUSLY WHERES THE ARGUMENT?
its Tottenham, its white hart lane, its north london, seven sisters highroad....its history. The club is steeped in it, why try to take that away from it.....i dont want to drive down N17 and see WHL turned into a block of flats like the bloody library was.
if tottenham the club is in your heart then so is the name, area and heritage. Dont change it, we dont need the money. COYS
Reading through some of the comments on teh Trunk's piece, some people still seem to think we'll move into the OS as it will be after the 2012 games.
Not to mention the full blown running track, the OS is effectively a 25,000 seater stadium with 55,000 temporary seats bolted on top of that. The original idea being that after the games, rather than having a giant white elephant, there would be a decently sized and easily maintained athletics venue, or legacy as the suits would have it, in London. Leyton Orient were the first to register interest in using the stadium in its 25,000 seat form (obviously).
When complete, in its 80,000 capacity form, the stadium, in essence, will be shit. There will be no catering facilities (bars) on the inside and no real plumbing to speak of, the toilets will be some kind of self contained interchangeable piss pods. The pikeys would feel right at home, but it's not for us.
On the other hand, the notion that this half a billion pounds publicly funded Olympic Games 'centre piece' will be bull dozed after a fortnights use only to have another sports stadium built in exactly the same place with private money is INSANE!
Even if the demolition were to go ahead (which it won't), how can knocking down a stadium in Stratford to build another one, be £300m (a figure some Stratfordites have been waving around) cheaper than doing the same thing in Tottenham (even accounting for the loss of revenue from one of the stands)?
Has eveyone gone mad?
Wonder what the pro-Stratford people would think if we did just move straight into it? I keep hearing we have staked an interest in the site not the stadium. Hence, knocking it down.
can we just get back to discussing the football please!
okay koume2........ Tottenham are very exciting to watch at the moment,....on the other hand i could never say that statement about stratford hotspur =P
Phil Neville will not be signing! Does it even matter where we play anymore?
Tusekn: Beautifully put!
As i've said previously, no Spurs fan wants to leave WHL, no Spurs fan wants to move to Sratford, but at the moment we're not moving to Stratford so we're potentially all getting our knickers in a twist over nothing.
Every argument both for and against is hyperthetical. So far all i've heard from Mr Levy is that he has pumped tens of millions of pounds into redeveloping WHL and it's immediate surrounding areas and that will always be his primary objective, the interest in the Olympic Stadium is purely a back up option that provides additional leverage to get what he wants from LBH. Until i hear from the mouth of Mr Daniel Levy himself that we're moving to the Olympic Stadium and his reasons why I will personally reserve judgement.
Many of you will say that all Levy is is a business man and all he's interested in is money, I think that's a weak statement and is said purely to aid your own individual argument. Call me naive but I truly believe that Levy has THFC's best interests at heart and that includes protecting our identity as "the" football club that has always played the game in it's purest form and return us to the hallowed heights of being "the" biggest and best football club in London if not the country, who am i to argue with that!
Why do we support this famous club? Is it the postcode? Is it the hallowed turf? Is it the heritage or tradition? Is it the lilywhite shirt? Is it the badge? It's all of it... but what truly makes Spurs the mighty club it is are the generations (as well as new and future generations) of being the shining becon of what it is to be glorious passionate fans inherently demanding a legacy of beautiful attacking football... no-one will ever take that away from us.
COYS
I read somewhere that our new trainee David Beckham was honoured by the club and allowed to lay his Grandad - an avid spurs fan - by spreading his ashes at the Lane (The one and only great, irreplaceable, White Hart Lane).
Can we then rest assured that DB will not, in any way, assist his American, concert show organising employers, to....(I was going to say "rip the soul from the club", but realised the pun would be in poor taste)... make this unfortunate acquisition of a venue at the expense of our club?
However i do want to make one last point in advance of Mr Levy's decision:
We all acknowledge the fact that if we are to at least maintain our current standing as a top 4 club, we do need a bigger stadium, few would argue with that... but when we knock down that beautiful old stadium steeped in history and build a bright shiny new all singing and dancing one, seeing those heavenly stands being knocked down will bring a tear to my eyes. But will that new stadium be the same, feel the same, sound the same? It probably won't because it won't be the same... it might be better but in reality what's the difference when you're sat in that new stadium whether it's N17 or Stratford?
I'll tell you the main difference and crux of the issue... whether that new stadium is as electric as it's little older brother is largely irrelevant, but whether you're anti or pro Stratford, the one thing that will change if we do move down the road and that's our name... it will be painful enough knocking down the old man but losing our identity will be the deepest of wounds and pro Stratford Spurs fans please don't underestimate that damage!
Our glorious name "Tottenham Hotspur Football Club" will be no more. Yes, we may have a reincarnated version called London Hotspur FC, Hotspur FC or Spurs FC, whatever it is that change of identity will be painful to swallow and don't ever forget that.
Cheers DY, not a bad final paragraph yourself.
just the sort of pride that i think will make sure we remain N17. =)
The move will make business sense, but it will psychologically crush many fans. It challenges our sense of identity and place. No one – not just a football fan – wants to feel homeless, without a territory, an itinerant, an exile; and it’s strangely ironic that a ‘traditionally Jewish’ club is effectively proposing the diaspora of its supporters.
As human beings, we crave belonging and, as a club, we belong in N17. But, if THFC relocates, no doubt it will endure (certainly as a profitable enterprise). Yet many of its supporters – myself included – will feel deeply riven inside. I’ll be torn between what the club historically represents to me and the new entity which emerges from its commercial chrysalis. Walking along Tottenham High Road, I’ll feel like a ghost in my own town. The root and anchor of so many memories will be gone. And that feeling of being internally divided will remain – still loving Spurs, but loving with the longing of the exiled (and how much pain has there been already for so many of us – and nostalgia, too!).
The next generation of fans - or the generation after that - will eventually find a home in Stratford, and they’ll wonder what all our fuss was about. But it’s we who live through the changes who face the emotional struggle. Without emotions, attachment and identity, the business makes sense. But what’s a football club without emotions, attachment and identity? (Arse, that’s what. ;O))
As fans, the struggle – to stay or to move – is, ultimately, a struggle with our selves.
Hey, like I said, I'm not really entitled to fervently argue for one side or the other. 5500 kilometers is a hell of a trip to make, and should I ever go loopy enough to attempt it every week, I'm guessing I won't really care about an extra five miles at the end of it.;) just attempting to dissect what makes the two rabid, raging sides tick is all.
Desktop, beautiful last post there. Haunting, almost.
Except for the arse bit, that cracked me up.;)
Yeah Desktop. Nice work. Feel touched after that one.
What is with this constant change of name bullshit that people keep posting?? It's like some mass mental illness that everyone has suddenly contracted.
Chelsea play in Fulham
West Ham play in East Ham
Queens Park Rangers play in Shepherds Bush
Can we try and keep some perspective with the discussion and cut back on the delusional hsyteria please?
Desktop = 9_37
Oh yes, forgot about that. Good point Nayim. The name won't be changed, and the plan, if I remember correctly, seems to be to tear down the 'soulless' Olympic bowl and build the original 60,000 seater design and adjacent developments and public square on that site wihile funding a seperate Athletics venue in Crystal Palace or somewhere, on the grounds that this is still cheaper than building the Naming Rights Stadium in N17. There, those two points have been remade. Carry on.