Clattenburg 2 Tottenham 0
Saturday, October 30, 2010 at 11:43PM Let's get the Nani goal out of the way first.
I'm doing this from memory as I watched it on a stream and if there is anything that's not quite on the money with regards to the time-line of the incident and it's events, then talk up. That's the whole point of a discussion thread.
Okay, so here we go...
1) Nani in the box, Kaboul is pulling the red shirt down, and the United player decides he may as well give into gravity and tumble over. He handballs the ball after falling (diving). The ref doesn't award a penalty - which is contentious because they've been given for that sort of thing in the past - but equally so, you could argue he went to ground with relative ease. Would have been soft if it was awarded. Probably because Nani tried far too hard to con the ref when it wasn't necessary.
2) No matter if you think it was a pen, a dive or just a nothing incident - there was no indication from the ref or the lino at this juncture that the hand ball had been acknowledged by either of them. Was not a penalty for certain as far as the ref was concerned. And I don't remember that much of a protest from the United players who got on with the game.
3) Now this is where it gets a bit messy. The only certainty at this point is that Nani had blatantly and unequivocally handled the ball. So much so that the Spurs players - and especially Gomes - do not, for a single second, think that it is anything other than a stone cold free-kick. So much so, they take it for granted.
In fact, note the assistant referee at this stage of the incident. He doesn't raise his flag because he assumes Clattenburg - who witnessed the fall (dive) in the box and the handball - is taking control because of the obviousness. What I mean by control is - unquestionably making it clear it was a free kick. Except the ref doesn't make anything clear.
4) So, this far, we have a blatant handball, Clattenburg (as far as I could tell) was in clear sight. But either he didn't see it or did see, but either way - as the official - doesn't make it clear to anyone other than the voice in his head. The assistant ref (the lino), sees it but makes a mistake. He doesn't raise his flag and wave it about. Had he done so, Clattenburg would have been forced into using his arm and hands and voice to clearly state free-kick/play on/whatever - although a free kick would probably have been given due to the raising of the lino's flag. And everyone's mistake it to accept the obvious, i.e. a free-kick from a dead ball.
4) Gomes, dear innocent Gomes, places the ball down (having looked at Nani and shook his head at the player and then looked at the lino for confirmation which might have been given with a stare or again a telepathic assumption, which is hardly the basis you should accept). Again, another massive assumption in the belief that everybody on the pitch understand that Nani handled the ball.
And I'm certain everyone on the pitch did. Including Fletcher (I think it was) who shouted at Nani to drop back to defend. Everyone apart from Nani, who knew he had handled the ball and also knew the ref had not blown his whistle or made it abundantly clear what was meant to be going on. I think Clattenburg was running back to the half-way line at this point. Which begs the question, did he think Gomes was taking the free-kick or that the keeper was going to play advantage?
5) So Gomes places the ball down (twice) ten yards from the actual incident, then remonstrates with his players to get out of he box, and Nani looks around (did he ask permission from the ref or someone if it was okay to kick the ball?) and then kicks the ball under Gomes and in. Apologetic celebration, looking around at first, making sure it counted. Which it did. Which he accepted.
6) Everyone (in Lilywhite) goes a bit mental, Gomes running to the lino smacking his arm/hand, and the lino decides now is the best moment to be lifting his flag up and waves it for the attention of Mark. Clattenburg has already given a goal, but runs down to his assistant, listens to his assistant (who has already mouthed to Gomes 'I know' in response to 'handball') but alas...it's not disallowed.
Too much has happened. Clattenburg signals again, it's a goal. Two things here - the lino flagging when prompted by Gomes (why did he not do it when the hand ball happened so he can make sure the ref saw it so they could both be on the same page in terms of the flow of the game? Or do such incidents, where hand ball occur, always result with a free-kick, therefore, no need for communication? Well? Second thing worth mentioning; Pav flapping his arms like a chicken at the lino.
7) Also - you've got to laugh at our players being told to walk away from the lino whilst Rio is allowed to stand next to both Clattenburg and the lino and stick his oar in. Although if he talks like he tweets, there's a likelihood neither understood his complaining.
8) It's 2-0 and that's that.
9) If you look back (on my stream of the game) the goal was missed because they were showing a replay - so that makes it the linesman, the fans (me and everyone else watching it would seem), the players on both sides and the frigging television producers - all making the assumption it was a dead ball kick. Playing advantage only works when the keeper with the ball in his hands actually knows it's advantage - which the ref failed to do.
10) Therefore: No communication from Clattenburg. Nothing definitive. Other than the ref running up the pitch away from the box where the ball was. Would you run up the pitch if you (the ref) had decided that the ball was still in play? Why not remain close(r) to the action until you can work out what the keeper is going to do?
11) Can I mention the handball again? If the ref saw it, which he must of if he was playing 'advantage' - then why exactly? It's slack. Also, where was the yellow card for Nani? Or is it okay to dismiss it and just forgive and let us have advantage so no time is lost in our favour? And loop yourself back to 10 again.
12) Do you see how the ref is responsible for birthing this bastard United debauchery of balls? No matter laying blame on Gomes for not playing to the whistle, it's still comes down to a creation of a goal out of subtle yet chaotic mismanagement of an incident. I'll say it again: If you're going to not do the obvious ( award a free-kick, yellow card the player) at least signal it's advantage. If by not doing anything, its therefore advantage, then it allows for too much ambiguity.
Also - Did the ref whistle at any stage? If he did initally, then surely its a free-kick. If he didn't - then why the f*ck not?
Conclusions
Fact is Clattenburg should have either made it abundantly clear it was an advantage - regardless of 'play to the whistle'. Everyone (apart from Nani who was sulking on the ground because he didn't get a pen) run off down the pitch - it tells you they all thought it was a free-kick. Had Clattenburg awarded the free-kick. No controversy. Had Clattenburg signalled advantage, no controversy. There is remonstrating of Gomes to his players around the box that might hint at some type of confusion, I did notice that. But I think that had more to do with Gomes wanting to pass it out to one of them rather than booting it down the pitch.
I wish we lost 1-0, instead of having that second go in. Because people will talk about yet another injustice when the reality is, we didn't quite have it going on in the final third. It's almost like we can't just lose at Old Trafford, we have to lose and there has to be something ridiculous in there to mess with our minds.
Lesson for us is simply: Do not entrust in the officials, do not leave doubt and ambiguity in what plays out simply by playing to the whistle. Talk to the ref if you have to. Just don't make assumptions even though it was more than obvious it was hand ball and should have been a free-kick.
Should, should, should.
Ref f*cked up. No question about it. It's now two for Clattenburg (you haven't forgotten about the Mendes goal have you - the one that would have blipped this woeful 68 game run of no wins away to the monopoly). Oh Howard, at least your calamities were more straightforward.
Next season, let's save ourselves a journey up there and just default the game.
Next blog article - I will not refer to any of this and just talk about the actual performance and players. Don't want all this dizziness to get in the way of what really matters. The football. And our season.
Reader Comments (87)
I am still angry. I am pretty sure we would have lost but we should have had a chance at losing fairly.
You mention one clear thing that Clattenberk didn't do and that clearly wave on advantage, only when Nani was closer to the ball about to shoot did he make that clear, and everyone else who thought it was a free kick and he was strangely asking Spurs to speed it up.
Officals want people not to threaten them, swear at them and show respect but football seems to be the only sport they seem to openly invite it by doing such strange things. There are only three logical explanations 1) he doesn't know what he is doing or 2) he is under the payroll of someone 3) orboth he forgot about the 100k he just received and forgot to award the penalty then remmebered to make sure his gambling debts were paid off awarding a random goal
I agree totally, there's no point in us even going to Old Trafford, or at least not until we have a referee who has some semblance of an understanding of the rules of the game. Clattenberg has brought disgrace on the game again.
like you said, don't really think we would have nicked an equaliser anyway.......still a joke of a goal tho
Spooky I have yet to read such 'gobbeldy gook' from you. I mean this is a farcicle situation. Should Spurs fail to get into the CL at the end of the season by a goal difference of 1, this gaff will be the reason why. Mark Clattenburg should not referee a EPL game this season again. He is a disgrace to football.
Another game at Old Trafford
Another refereeing fuck up in their favour!
WTF was Keane playing upfront? We could have done with some height in the box for more options, VDV n Crouch hav had a few good games together
On 2nd thoughts, from now on, we should just field a reserve team! we're never gonna win there anyway at this rate. And now VDV will miss the inter game - oh it just gets better n better doesnt it!
What I saw on one replay and not repeated on MOTD was that Gomes signalled to the referee, both hands out in front of himself towards the placed ball as if to say "is it a free kick?" and Twattenberg shrugged back an "I dont know".
Which may explain the confusion at least, if not explain the decision process.
Conclusive proof that referees favour Manure
Anyone disagreeing is biased and/or has no brains
Cookie, I've seen a few fellow yids state they though the ref didn't do anything wrong. I wanted to cover it for the sake of argument and discussion, and let you lot chit chat about the dynamics of the incident.
The game itself, the performance - that for me is where the true head shaking should be.
Fact is, ref's at OT cut us no slack. Should have seen it coming. I joked before kick-off 'oh fuck' when I remembered it was Cluttenburg.
Football pie in my face.
Clattenburg is a cunt.
Did anyone else think that the first goal was also dodgy as the freekick that was awarded shouldn't have been? In the replay it seems that Kaboul played the ball before bringing the player down accidentally. He certainly looked miffed as he was being booked.
Spooky, I can sum it up in one word:
BULLSHIT
Yes, we were not going to win the game but fuck me why does this idiot always botch up and why do refs always do this at Old Trafford in favour of the home side. This was far more clear cut than the Torres goal v Sunderland.
If he thought it was a free kick for the hand ball why did he put the ball 10 yards further forward
We looked like a quality team but lacked edge. Gallas left
Vidic to BAE and Clutterbuck was in charge. He needs money for wigs, how can he be trusted? We need to batter them irrespective of poor/ crooked decisions. We would have done but for Capello.
Bugger.
mendes, dodgy lasagne, vidic handball on the line. diving gooners we've seen and suffered it all. with all the skill and promise we have and have had in many a season we lack the killer instinct and a full on ball winning midfield general. the biggest farce of this incident wasnt the handball (non debateable) wasnt the fact that there should have been a free kick for spurs and a yellow card for nani (either for the handball or diving) but blatant bias shown in letting ferdinand approach, listen and butt in whilst clattentit and his linesman went over the incident, the linesman clearly stated that there was a deliberate handball which would automatically result in a yellow card for any other team than united but clattentit chose to ignore this hint and let the goal stand. cant change the result but clattentit should see a good gynaecologist
I don't think Harry thought the striker situation through for this one. He should definately have had height there for knock-downs. Spurs get shagged every time they go away to Manure and something will have to give. The fact that Nanni handled the ball, stopped play and a yellow card and a free kick should have been the outcome. Clattenburg is a prat and has no common decency or he would have explained the reason to allow the goal or hold his hands up and admit that he is as thick as two planks and shouldn't be refereeing games. Hansen says 'always play to the whistle' what bullshit.
Gomes did what all keepers do. He tried to steal some yards and get the ball a few yards further. Have you not see his kicks?
2 points
1: if advantage was played and spurs did not gain an advantage then the referee can call the game back to the original foul. It's not like spurs played on and lost the ball.
2: if the referee missed the handball then its a free kick to man utd as gomes picks the ball up twice.
Stop whining,
It's called discussion munn. If there was no discussion, the world, it would be a bore.
I personally want answers from Harry on Jenas. Fuck the ref and the Nani goal.
This is what is being said elsewhere. 'Harry Redknapp called the decision “scandalous” but with United having been denied a penalty when the Portuguese winger fell in the box after Younes Kaboul’s shirt-pull, Nani’s quick-thinking brought an eventual reward. The ball, still being live, was there to be played deemed the officials' Live, how could the ball be live after a blatent 'hand ball by a Manure player in the penalty box.
If Clattenburg ins't de-frocked for this 'fuck-up' then the FA are just a joke. They are saying that a player can be banned for play acting on 'trial by video' (as happened in Itlay last week) then referees should be also tried by video and struck off if they award goals that aren't. This bollix has awarded a goal to Manure today and disallowed the Mendes goal 5 years ago to deny Spurs 3 points.
I hate to say it, but we are seen as the gd boys of the league! We see it year after year, with none of these disgraceful decisions being challenged by us in anyway! And I for one are sick to fucking death of it. We need to stick up for ourselves a little bit and gain a few cheap points in the same way manure do each season. With that and a new CF, we can be a top 4 team each year
you all talking like bad losers. you play to the whistle. Gomes didn't. never make assumptions that it should be a free kick. watch the officials. it was a poor decision to play on but there was no indication not to, so it was Gomes' error. end of. hence why it was a goal. of more relevance should be how absolutely dreadful our crossing was and that we have nothing world class, or even top class up front. result was fair, we still someway off title challenging. can't score. goodnight.
Never mind NANIES Goal what about his great escape from the Fifa testers in the World Cup this his how it unfolded deep in the African Jungle, Nani and his Team mate Ronaldo ex Fergie boy where racing cheaters on the African plain. They had there tea then went to bed all was quite until Nanie was awakened by someone shaking him violently he looked up startled to see his Manager the Qeerone ex Man Utd coach. He told him to get out quick because the testers wanted to get a sample of piss instead Nani pissed off and came home his brave Manager got sacked and this is why Nani who raced cheaters in Africa was always favourite to reach the ball before Gomes and score
Stop discussing, you whining pr*cks.
There was no indication of play on. It was so blatent.
Tottenham's United curse
Jan 2005: Mark Clattenburg failed to give a goal when Pedro Mendes’s speculative 45-yard shot was fumbled two feet over the line by Roy Carroll with the score tied at 0-0.
Aug 2007: United got away with a foul by Nemanja Vidic on Dimitar Berbatov and a handball in the area by Wes Brown and duly ran out 1-0 winners.
April 2009: United were two goals down when Howard Webb awarded a penalty for Heurelho Gomes’s clean challenge on Michael Carrick. Cristiano Ronaldo converted and United ran out 5-2 winners.
It's not difficult to loose at United when the referee makes sure there's no possible other outcome. United have never ever won the EPL fairly. It's easy when you slip the referee his mortgage money.
I firmly believe that Clattenburg is a cheat.
If he wanted to favour Manure why not award the penalty?
Did Nani dive like a girl? Yes.
Was his shirt pulled (a penalty)? Yes.
Would you have lost anyways? Yes. (probably)
Bet you wouldn't be complaining if Clattenberg had missed the penalty (error) and Nani hadn't scored.
Frankly his error made up for his original error.....
You whingin Yids lost whether Nani's goal stood or not. The funniest thing I've seen on a pitch for years...
Love it...
I can remember further back than that Cookiebun. not sure what year it was but i remember manure getting a free kick in their own half, i think it was pallister who took it and past it back to schmeicel. Teddy sheringham intercepted the back pass and scored ( i think he scored anyway ). The ref called it back for god knows what reason, so it has gone on for a lot longer than just clattenberg and his mates fucking us over.
Clattenburg must have been spit roasted by Nani and Berbatoss with Rio shouting directions....
Surely blackmail is the only reason behind his decision?
Hilary, go on, who you support fella?
HH, great logic. Make up for a mistake with another mistake to cancel out the mistake.
Rio Ferdinand (on Twitter) has stated:
All a u askin what I said 2 gallas I told him if they had scored when the ball went out 1st half would they say NO GOAL the ball was out? NO
In other words, if you want to win games, then make sure you do so by any which way you can, even if it means cunting off the opposition.
Cut the conspiracy stories ffs. Clattenburg's fault was simply poor communication to play on as he intended when the ball was in Gomes' hands. But Gomes was still to blame by assuming a free kick had been awarded when there was no whistle or signal to indicate that either. Nor was there a flag from the linesman at that stage.
But if we keep on with this victim stuff we are ignoring the fact that the performance wasn't good enough to get a result from the weakest United team in some years. Take away Bale and VDV and we are still way short of challenging for the title by beating the top sides on a consistent basis.
Slightly off topic but Nani's cheating goal hammered something home for me.
United pretend to be a club built on class and reputation but they are just as vile and loathsome than Chelsea if not more so because of the pretentions attached to their great tradition and their shriveled c*nt of a manager.
United absolutely deserve Rooney.
He cheated United with a bullshit stunt. He cheated on his wife. He is more of a prostitute than the prostitute he hired could ever be. And best of all, his best years are behind him.
Perfect.
Was it not clattenburg that also ignored vidic handball clearence few seasons ago, or was it howard webb? !!!!!!! F@ck you to all the skanky manc w@nks coming on here, your the luckiest bunch of cheating h@lfwits iv ever seen. Ok performance but wrong team selection, sandro! Like we all knew all summer harry,levy, buy a or some new strikers plz, suarez!
We missed Thudd today and we are desperately missing Dawson.
Gallas scares me. Not sure what to make of Hutton though he has some great moments.
Our strikers are pretty useless. All of em. Can't wait for JD to get back.
I thought we played quite well today with 10 men until Pav came on.
End of the day, Tottenham have been fucked over yet again from a fair chance of getting a result, piling on the pressure for a (deserved) equaliser away to Man U. No matter what anyone says, the second goal took the piss, shouldnt have stood, clattenburg obviously knew this. The fact he told our players to fuck off countless times and then let Rio ferdiandned have his say AND listen to the conversation between ref and linesman? LOL, if nothing is done about this then, just LOL. Also the fact the linesman clearly reassured Gomes by saying 'i know' about 5 times when he claimed handball, and then to let it stand? well......
i hate the sickening manner in which we lose when we play up @OT. There is always a bad decision leading to a goal against us or ruling one of ours out. In addition to which it never looks likely & they did a good job of compressing the wing play..
also re. Cookie "i think Arry got it wrong with the strikers". I take it thats b4 the season started when we didnt stump up the 20-25 mill which we will have to pay to get the standard of cf we need to convert all the wasted bale crosses.
Republik of Mancunia = RETARDS
Why the fuck was Ferdinand allowed in the conversation with the referee and linesman when all of our players were ushered away!?!? Typical united although to be fair, didn't see an equaliser coming. Good performance from the mighty spurs, just lacked cutting edge and quality up front. Why keane started up front instead of pav i will never know!
Although Clattenberk ran him a close second, the most 'scandalous' aspect of the game was Redknapp starting with Keane up front. I don't think he touched the ball more than half a dozen times in the hour or so he was on the pitch. He's past it and should never play for us again. The only positive is that we had some nice approach play instead of hoofing it the pitch but when we worked the ball into good positions we had no aerial threat in the box. We put in one of our better performances of the season but never really looked like scoring because Keane is a waste of space.
If VDV had not done his hamstring we might have got something out of the game, but why was he replaced with Crouch? Same with Palacios for Jenas, how can a professional footballer be incapable of passing accurately over ten yards? Harry continues to baffle me with his team selections and substitutions.
It happens. Swings and roundabouts.
Sometimes the decisions have no effect on the result, like today, other times they define the winners...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/aug/21/stoke-city-tottenham-hotspur-premier-league
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Fulham-1-2-Tottenham-match-report-Controversial-Tom-Huddlestone-winner-inflicts-first-defeat-for-Mark-Hughes-article602023.html
hey spuds.
i feel your pain and frustration. that was a jock goal and the refree absolutely screwed it up. i wouldn't be sane for a week had it happened to The Arsenal. But...but...the fact that it happened to you only made me the happiest man around. i enjoy it for days to come. and don't forget that you were losing when the incident happened so don't blame it all on the ref.
happy halloween spuds! may such pain last long!
Gomez is a retardation and will always make f@ck ups just as much as united will always cheat to win. you would never see a spurs player do what nani did as we are not cunts. perhaps we should be from now on?
Oh and Brook..similarly, I hope you die a slow and painful death. fuck off onto your own forum you sad pathetic little prick with nothing better to do. seriously you really are a sad piece of dog shit.