Clattenburg 2 Tottenham 0
Saturday, October 30, 2010 at 11:43PM Let's get the Nani goal out of the way first.
I'm doing this from memory as I watched it on a stream and if there is anything that's not quite on the money with regards to the time-line of the incident and it's events, then talk up. That's the whole point of a discussion thread.
Okay, so here we go...
1) Nani in the box, Kaboul is pulling the red shirt down, and the United player decides he may as well give into gravity and tumble over. He handballs the ball after falling (diving). The ref doesn't award a penalty - which is contentious because they've been given for that sort of thing in the past - but equally so, you could argue he went to ground with relative ease. Would have been soft if it was awarded. Probably because Nani tried far too hard to con the ref when it wasn't necessary.
2) No matter if you think it was a pen, a dive or just a nothing incident - there was no indication from the ref or the lino at this juncture that the hand ball had been acknowledged by either of them. Was not a penalty for certain as far as the ref was concerned. And I don't remember that much of a protest from the United players who got on with the game.
3) Now this is where it gets a bit messy. The only certainty at this point is that Nani had blatantly and unequivocally handled the ball. So much so that the Spurs players - and especially Gomes - do not, for a single second, think that it is anything other than a stone cold free-kick. So much so, they take it for granted.
In fact, note the assistant referee at this stage of the incident. He doesn't raise his flag because he assumes Clattenburg - who witnessed the fall (dive) in the box and the handball - is taking control because of the obviousness. What I mean by control is - unquestionably making it clear it was a free kick. Except the ref doesn't make anything clear.
4) So, this far, we have a blatant handball, Clattenburg (as far as I could tell) was in clear sight. But either he didn't see it or did see, but either way - as the official - doesn't make it clear to anyone other than the voice in his head. The assistant ref (the lino), sees it but makes a mistake. He doesn't raise his flag and wave it about. Had he done so, Clattenburg would have been forced into using his arm and hands and voice to clearly state free-kick/play on/whatever - although a free kick would probably have been given due to the raising of the lino's flag. And everyone's mistake it to accept the obvious, i.e. a free-kick from a dead ball.
4) Gomes, dear innocent Gomes, places the ball down (having looked at Nani and shook his head at the player and then looked at the lino for confirmation which might have been given with a stare or again a telepathic assumption, which is hardly the basis you should accept). Again, another massive assumption in the belief that everybody on the pitch understand that Nani handled the ball.
And I'm certain everyone on the pitch did. Including Fletcher (I think it was) who shouted at Nani to drop back to defend. Everyone apart from Nani, who knew he had handled the ball and also knew the ref had not blown his whistle or made it abundantly clear what was meant to be going on. I think Clattenburg was running back to the half-way line at this point. Which begs the question, did he think Gomes was taking the free-kick or that the keeper was going to play advantage?
5) So Gomes places the ball down (twice) ten yards from the actual incident, then remonstrates with his players to get out of he box, and Nani looks around (did he ask permission from the ref or someone if it was okay to kick the ball?) and then kicks the ball under Gomes and in. Apologetic celebration, looking around at first, making sure it counted. Which it did. Which he accepted.
6) Everyone (in Lilywhite) goes a bit mental, Gomes running to the lino smacking his arm/hand, and the lino decides now is the best moment to be lifting his flag up and waves it for the attention of Mark. Clattenburg has already given a goal, but runs down to his assistant, listens to his assistant (who has already mouthed to Gomes 'I know' in response to 'handball') but alas...it's not disallowed.
Too much has happened. Clattenburg signals again, it's a goal. Two things here - the lino flagging when prompted by Gomes (why did he not do it when the hand ball happened so he can make sure the ref saw it so they could both be on the same page in terms of the flow of the game? Or do such incidents, where hand ball occur, always result with a free-kick, therefore, no need for communication? Well? Second thing worth mentioning; Pav flapping his arms like a chicken at the lino.
7) Also - you've got to laugh at our players being told to walk away from the lino whilst Rio is allowed to stand next to both Clattenburg and the lino and stick his oar in. Although if he talks like he tweets, there's a likelihood neither understood his complaining.
8) It's 2-0 and that's that.
9) If you look back (on my stream of the game) the goal was missed because they were showing a replay - so that makes it the linesman, the fans (me and everyone else watching it would seem), the players on both sides and the frigging television producers - all making the assumption it was a dead ball kick. Playing advantage only works when the keeper with the ball in his hands actually knows it's advantage - which the ref failed to do.
10) Therefore: No communication from Clattenburg. Nothing definitive. Other than the ref running up the pitch away from the box where the ball was. Would you run up the pitch if you (the ref) had decided that the ball was still in play? Why not remain close(r) to the action until you can work out what the keeper is going to do?
11) Can I mention the handball again? If the ref saw it, which he must of if he was playing 'advantage' - then why exactly? It's slack. Also, where was the yellow card for Nani? Or is it okay to dismiss it and just forgive and let us have advantage so no time is lost in our favour? And loop yourself back to 10 again.
12) Do you see how the ref is responsible for birthing this bastard United debauchery of balls? No matter laying blame on Gomes for not playing to the whistle, it's still comes down to a creation of a goal out of subtle yet chaotic mismanagement of an incident. I'll say it again: If you're going to not do the obvious ( award a free-kick, yellow card the player) at least signal it's advantage. If by not doing anything, its therefore advantage, then it allows for too much ambiguity.
Also - Did the ref whistle at any stage? If he did initally, then surely its a free-kick. If he didn't - then why the f*ck not?
Conclusions
Fact is Clattenburg should have either made it abundantly clear it was an advantage - regardless of 'play to the whistle'. Everyone (apart from Nani who was sulking on the ground because he didn't get a pen) run off down the pitch - it tells you they all thought it was a free-kick. Had Clattenburg awarded the free-kick. No controversy. Had Clattenburg signalled advantage, no controversy. There is remonstrating of Gomes to his players around the box that might hint at some type of confusion, I did notice that. But I think that had more to do with Gomes wanting to pass it out to one of them rather than booting it down the pitch.
I wish we lost 1-0, instead of having that second go in. Because people will talk about yet another injustice when the reality is, we didn't quite have it going on in the final third. It's almost like we can't just lose at Old Trafford, we have to lose and there has to be something ridiculous in there to mess with our minds.
Lesson for us is simply: Do not entrust in the officials, do not leave doubt and ambiguity in what plays out simply by playing to the whistle. Talk to the ref if you have to. Just don't make assumptions even though it was more than obvious it was hand ball and should have been a free-kick.
Should, should, should.
Ref f*cked up. No question about it. It's now two for Clattenburg (you haven't forgotten about the Mendes goal have you - the one that would have blipped this woeful 68 game run of no wins away to the monopoly). Oh Howard, at least your calamities were more straightforward.
Next season, let's save ourselves a journey up there and just default the game.
Next blog article - I will not refer to any of this and just talk about the actual performance and players. Don't want all this dizziness to get in the way of what really matters. The football. And our season.
Reader Comments (87)
Brook is sad little doggie who only barks when Spurs have a reverse. Never shows up when Spurs do well. Never shows up when the Arse have a set back. He's probabaly only truly happy when he's molesting children.
If Clattenburg really favors "Manure", he would hv given the penalty to Nani but he didn't. (seriously, you say Nani dived? I feel sorry for you). Just because Clattenburg and linesman missed Nani's handball you are all talking about ref's conspiracy? Pls don't be that pathetic. Stop whining accusing the ref of being biased.
Red24, I'm not claiming bias. My anger is about a ridiculous goal conceeded because the ref would not condescend to communicate his decision on the pitch. Look at the way this happened: Nani in the box; goes down after slight contact and grabs the ball. He then drops it and Gomes grabs it. Nani is shouting for a penalty; we are shouting no, and the ref says nothing. Gomes drops the ball to kick, but is asking if it’s a free or goal kick. Ref still says nothing. MU players motion Nani to get back and defend. Only then does the ref motion “play on.” Nani taps in and the lino–as confused as anyone–raises the flag.
No one knew what the situation was because the ref did communicate his initial decision. Spurs players had no idea; MU plays were running back to defend, and the linesmen did not know either. In my opinion, the ref is obligated to make sure his decisions are known. It isn’t hide the ball; the ref doesn’t win anything for deception. He is there to control and facilitate the match. Clattenburg wasn’t doing this.
You miss the point about Clattenburg half way down the pitch facing Gomes with his arms out from the elbows in an "I don't know" gesture. What was that all about?
Bad reffing. Bad linesmanning. Bad goalkeeping. Play to the whistle. Assume nothing. Believe no one. The truth is out there. I'm going back to bad because I forgot to change the fucking clock
Despite all the ridiculous comments from the mancs - please stop behaving like scum and get of your high fucking pedastall - if we want to debate this latest round of controversy that yet again favours you then we will. You pricks are going on like how dare we speak against the mighty northern fuck wits whose fan base is dominated by Africans and Asians and non mancs. Most of your posts on here are probably from some bandit in the middle east. Your club has been raped by these people, the Glazers and Wayne Rooney. Long may that continue - only then will your breathtaking arrogance begin to depart.
But the real fucking scum on here goes to goonie brook. And no that isn't because he has previously come on here and declared himself to be a homosexual. Although brook please spare us the links to your favourite gay porn DVDs this time. As I have previously asked of you (with no response of course) I wonder if this hatred for thfc will one day prompt you to express this hatred at WHL? When was the last time your shit club with even shitter fans got brave and brought a firm to Tottenham? Oh that would be the 90s and even then we were playing Oldham fucking Athletic and your down of a firm joined up with them.
Point is cunt if you want to come on here and spew hate for Spurs be brave enough to back it up - one day you will get what's coming to ya which is a nice shiny knife deeply implanted in your shit little pussy goonie face.
Brook hangings too good for you. Burn the fecker. You woolwich wandering gypsy child trafficing fibreglass loving stupid plastic scumbag
Most important facts here: 1) It SHOULD have been a penalty. I t doesn't matter what followed. If the ref gave penalty, no would complain because Kaboul tugged shirt. Nani doesn't even need to fall down for it to be a penalty. Kaboul was beaten. So we were lucky there. 2) Yes, the TV directory thought it was a dead ball too - because the replay was being shown. 3) Clattenburg did gesture that he was playing advantage with his hands behind his back. However he still needs to be in control of situation, and wasn't - so he did not see Nani's handball. 4) Gomes messed up. He had a good game, but he is over 30 and should be experienced enough to play to whistle, never assume, be wary of opposing players behind you etc... 5) Ref was clearly seen (on Motd) doing a "what are you doing?" gesture to Gomes as he rolled ball out. When ball is scored - surely before ref talks to lino, he should talk to Gomes to see what was the confusion before he gives final decision.
In short: Kaboul messed up (shirt tug), then Ref messed up (no pen, then not in control), then Gomes messed up (rolled ball out), then Ref messed up again (did not consult Gomes, let Rio in on discussion with lino).
Decent showing, even game, previously prolific Man U strikers did not have a sniff. Nani had sniff but dealt with until end. Set piece goal was only difference. Getting better which is the main thing.
We are losing the plot here!!! We never looked like winning, we did not play to win and we are slipping in the race for the top 4 !!! We have our eye on the wrong prize!!
Gomez, what can i say, he was also at fault!!
Finishing 5th, 6th,7th will be a disaster for the team!!! Wake up and lets get our priorities right!!
We have 3 - 4 world class players that may be on their way come next year!!!
Where will it leave us!!!
All the same, these trolls. Not an ounce of imagination. 'Spuds are shite', 'Our feeder club' 'smarmy yid cockney cunts', etc, etc. United fans, focus on your ow many, many, many failings and the imminent disintegration of the wreck of a club you hold dear before your very eyes. Goons, enjoy finishing behind Chelsea in your perennial race to claim a title that is beyond your reach. I see Wenger treats the Carling Cup seriously now? My, my, how embarassing. 'We don't care about that cup, we play our kids'. Really now? A means to an end, you thick lumps of red-shirted gob.
As for the Republik of Mancunia, utter glory-hunting cunts, the lot of them save for Balaji and Costas. I tried to reason with them for four agonizing hours on their 'Same Old Spurs' article. Not an ounce of sense, save for the mentioned two.
This all goes back to that Mendes goal.We were well to nice that day and instead of officaly complaining we have been rolled over by bad refs at Old Trafford ever since.No bookings for Man Utd yesterday sums up the refs performence.
If Gomes had kicked the ball upfield the referee could have booked him if he had, in fact, awarded a free kick he should have done and as Gomes thought. I find it difficult to attach any blame to Gomes for not playing to the whistle when many times the players can't hear the whistle because of the crowd noise. The bottom line is that the referees must interpret the game fairly and in this instance he clearly failed to do so. Either he or his linesman must have seen the handball and if he claims he was playing advantage it's clear there was no advantage. It's time this referee was given some time off to consider why he appears to favour the home side in this fixture.
Hotspurs - dude, we were well in the game. We matched them. We both hit woodwork. Both had chances. A mere set-piece goal was the difference. Gomes was busier but with straightforward saves. Van der sar had the toughest save to make. Modric was look pretty neat out there - he is improving. Have you seen the table? We have in no way lost touch with the top. May I remind you that we lost to Man U twice last season and to Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool away and still finished 4th. I agree that focussing on a ref decision when 1-0 down with mins to go IS losing the plot. Relax man. It is going well.
I still want to know, it the ref was allowing play to continue, 'playing advantage' they call it, what advantage did we gain by their player escaping a yellow card and scoring a goal?
I was sitting with a load of Man U fans, who were laughing their heads off & saying it was a fair goal and a fair decision. This was until I asked them, if it was the other way round, would it have been give. Their answer, suprise, suprise, was a big fat NO.
What do United players have to do to get a yellow card at OT ?
After Nani dives and handles the ball, Scholes has his hands all over the ref, presumably trying to get a penalty.
And the chat between the 3 match officals ( Ref, Lino and Ferdinand ) before awarding the goal was unbelievable.
Re Hudd at Fulham, was there not also a Fulham player involved in that conversation ?
Whos the muppet that keeps saying stop whining? hiding behind sad little sites like this? You would whine if I got my hands on you........... W****r
This was a game of clear cheating that Clattenbug has got away with too many times!
Both Spurs centerbacks booked for 50/50 tackles (I think Kaboul actually got some ball)....Didgreacefull you may as well have chained them up for the rest of the game.
Of the incident that was a dive first and foremost, talented as Nani may be hes not Ronaldo who was by chance also the best diver in the game, it was also his 3rd dive and the ones before that he should have been booked for, consequently he should have been sent off for simulation or handball take your pick
(and dont talk to me about shirtpulling, players get away with it every game look at Crouch against Everton last week, more below par refereeing.).
So F*** off everybody and get back to being cheated like we always have
merry Christmas humbug
Also manc wankers you will win Fuck all this season ,your'e just not good enough, Chelsea and Arsenal and even Man City will do better
scum and you do deserve Rooney average little pikey
nuff said go buy Clattenburg his xmas prezzie and then go hide under the wretched hole you came from.
on the football front were doing ok but Keane must go I love hime but his times up!
I must be dreaming I keep thinking I see Utd fans justifying it with an "it should have been a penalty anyway" response and others with "well it's swings and roundabouts."
Are you for real? Swings and roundabouts and balancing itself out? NO club in England besides Utd gets the rub at OT and most clubs in England never get the rub against Utd WHEREVER a game is played. When was the last time we got a decision against Utd? Oh that's right, last night when it wasn't a penalty on Nani yet it's "balanced" out by a blatant handball not being given, advantage not being observed, a lino seeing it and saying "I know" then watching his balls shrink when he gets the chance to man up oh and the eloquent pug faced beanhead allowed to chat away with officials after our players are told to f*** off. I guess a 4 to 1 scale at Old Trafford is regarded as neutral officiating and "balancing itself out."
Facts (as I see it)
1) It wasn't penality (and wasn't given)
2) It was a free kick and yellow card for Nani which was not given, which is a shockingly bad refereeing decision.
3) Gomes should take some of the blame for making a bad assumption, even if the assumption was reasonable (i.e. the free kick couldn't possibly not be given)
4) Nani is a cheat.
5) We were basically denied the last five minutes of the game to pull one back, however this didn't look likely.
6) We lack the killer punch against the top sides in the final third, which means this "Top 4" away hoodoo isn't going to be cured anytime soon. JD returning is not the answer.
I would be more upset if we were a goal up, but it was clearly a huge refereeing cock up.
3) Gomes should take some of the blame for making a bad assumption, even if the assumption was reasonable (i.e. the free kick couldn't possibly not be given)?
You what!! I and every fucker watching wondered just what in the fuck Nani was doing! I honestly thought he was trying to prevent Gomes from taking the free kick (time wasting) - When he booted in the back of the net....I thought i I'd slipped into a parallel universe............. I'm still trying to remove the red wine I spat all over the ornamental rug!!
My mate Ishmael reckons that fatwa's are issued for less! I got a 3pm appointment at our local mosque - wish me luck
It's was Carroll not Howard
As it was 'Advantage' played. And Nani had only Gomes between him and the goal then he was offside. Whatever the referee did was rubbish. I am a neutral and this goal showed Nani to be a cheat just like Torres did to Sunderland a few weeks ago.
I am all for fair play and just do not like cheats. You see too much of it in professional sport.
the standard of officiating in the premier league is to keep the big clubs happy. players happy to rot in the reserves for money. refs without balls. greedy footballers. lack of fairplay. lack of decency. cheating. FIFA and its love of money.
am starting to hate football.
millions already dont care about the national team and so the rot begins.
FOOTBALL IS SLOWLY EATING ITSELF.
thank you FA. thank you FIFA. above all thank you mock cuntingberg you cocksuckingpussyeatingsaladtossing spineless excuse of a ref. when the truth behind your many frauds come to light you will get whats due
indeed, in all honesty, the decision was a shocker.
if officiated properly, it was either a penalty or a handball against Nani.
without being too harsh on Clattenburg, i don't think he has seen Nani handle the ball, i think there was too much going on in the box at the time - and waved play on.
you can forgive the ref as well for not really knowing what was going on and probably thinking what on earth is Gomes doing - think about it...
he sees Nani go down, and decides not to give a penalty - there is a it of harrasment from players of both teams - he tellsl them to beat it and in his head waves play on. Gomes has thrown the ball on the floor 5 yards away from where Nani went down.
he then sees Nani - to Gomes' surprise take a shot, and Gomes attempt to save it.
Spurs fans should be initially annoyed at the linesman for not signalling until after the ball went into the net and then the ref, after decides to go and speak to his linesman the conversation should have went somthing like this:
Ref: what happened?
linesman: gomes was under the impression it was a freekick
ref: why did he think it was a freekick, i never seen any foul?
linesman: becasue when Nani was denied a penalty he grabbed the ball
ref: did you see him grab the ball?
linesman: yes
referee: soooo, I say it's a goal, and you say it should be a free kick; ah Rio glad you turned up chuck, I say it's a goal and lino here says it should be a free to them.
Rio: I say goal (tweet)
referee: well I make it 1 vote for the free and 2 for the Goal, cheers for that Rio meh boy. - tweeeeet
Ridiculous, the ref should then have taken play back and awarded Spurs the freekick.
i'm not sure what on earth was said between the ref & linesman which led to the conclusion it was a goal.
One thing is for sure though, the ref did not stop play, but after consulting his assistant the decision could only go one way, disallow the goal, book Nani for deliberate handball, award a free kick, add the the time it took to sort out the situation from when when the ball was handled - and the 'play to the whistle' cliche is wearing thin, because if we were playing to the whistle why is Nani handling the ball in order to stop play and influence the decision.
@MGS The bottom line is that the referees must interpret the game fairly and in this instance he clearly failed to do so. Well said. LET THAT BE AN END TO IT. ALSO THE THREE YELLOWS SPURS PLAYERS GOT FOR UNSPORTING BEHAVIOUR LOOKS A BIT STRANGE WHEN NANI'S ANTIQUES ARE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT.
Right and it's clear to me that if nani hadn't cheated and gone for the cheap sleazy tactic of taking advantage of Gomes' confusion sir alex would have reamed him out. You win at all costs at united and that includes cheap cynical cheating. Despite sir alex's sanctimoniousness this shit is top down. That's the real hypocrisy and the reason I hate united more than cheatski. The chavs are loathsome glory-seeking twats who don't really pretend to be anything else. Manure and fergie pretend to have class but they are scum. The manc cunts who've shown up here confirm that this suits the knuckle dragging neandrathals who support them just fine.
And furthermore, I think Harry, despite whatever people say about him, has more class than that.
Interesting and fair article. As a United fan it is hard to disagree with a lot that is said here. Certainly it seems a mixture of the ref and his assistant being at fault. Some of the comments slating Nani seem harsh. I feel he had a legitimate penalty claim (I know he went down after a delay like a sack of shit) but it was very close call, and a challenge most attackers would have fallen down under. His grabbing the ball straight after is again something we see all the time -a tactic used to force the refs hand to make a decision. Not his fault the ref astonishingly avoided making a call. And as for the linesman - he too HAD to make the cal initially and has to shoulder some of the blame. And why then did Gomes take the "free kick" from where the infringement (that's the handball) took place rather than rolling it 10 yards from where it should have been? Nani had to stick the ball away. Who wouldn't have in that situation? But I totally feel for you. I would be just as aggrieved had the shoe been on the other foot. So I am not going to justify the goal anymore - fact is it should have been a free-kick to you, or a penalty to us. But Clattenburg wrongly gave neither and the game had to carry on...
On another note - some of the comments here are really vile towards United especially NYCYID. Not sure Spurs fans can be so 'holier than thou' after recent years after the way you've acted towards Sol Campbell and Arsene Wenger. My best mate is a Spurs season ticket holder and said he was sickened by the vile chants that ring out about Wenger and more so when Campbell first returned to WHL for Arsenal. Dad's and their kids uttering such vile words. So NYCSid, United aren't perfect pal, but look at your own lot before spouting such shit on blogs.
Also further to that - just read Pleat's column in the Guardian. Interesting to hear a Spurs man's take on the incident.
David Pleat, in The Guardian:
"The margin of Manchester United's victory on Saturday might have seemed hard on Tottenham Hotspur, but the home side's ability to nullify Gareth Bale, the visitors' most likely source of an equaliser, in the latter stages actually made this win feel comfortable...
...The second goal was unfortunate for Spurs, but it confirmed my suspicion that many commentators and pundits do not know the laws of the game. The referee did not signal either a free-kick or a dead ball as Nani reacted and Heurelho Gomes dozed. It was a fair goal, however harsh"
And finally a bit of evidence to counter the fact BIG decisions don't go against us at OT. Courtesy of ROM. Went on to lose 1-2.
http://therepublikofmancunia.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Offside.jpg
It's swings and roundabouts. Move on. Accept your own failings and inability to stick the ball in the back of the net, which enough less potent teams have managed so far this season.
DOM ... IF ITS SWINGS AND ROUNDABOUTS REMIND ME WHEN WE LAST GOT AN IFFY DECISION AGAINST YOU LOT AT OT.
APART FROM NANI GATE, WE ALSO HAD THE PEN 2 YEARS AGO AND MENDES GOAL FROM 5 YEARS AGO.
AND HOW COME NONE OF YOUR PLAYERS WERE BOOKED ON SATURDAY ?
NANI FOR REPEATED DIVING, HANDBALL, DISSENT, FERDINAND FOR GATECRASHING THE REF/ LINO DISCUSSION AND SCHOLES FOR MANHANDLING THE REF.
WE HAD 2 PLAYERS BOOKED FOR TACKLES WHICH WERE THE FIRST FOULS THEY MADE IN THE GAME. YOUR PLAYERS COMMITTED EQUALLY BAD FOULS (PARK ON LENNON) NO CARD.
I LIKE UTD AND ENJOY WATCHING THEM PLAY BUT WHEN I SEE STUFF LIKE THIS I REALLY DO WONDER ABOUT THE BIAS IN THE GAME.
David - I take your point. You have definitely not had the rub of the green at OT, but I meant swings and roundabouts over the course of the season. I certainly agree the bigger sides (and I mean whoever that is) tend to get the decisions at home. And United's vs Spurs in recent times have got a couple of big ones. But as shown with the Chelsea offside picture I posted a link to, they do go against us. Hell I was at te other end of the ground that day and I could see that was offside. In the end it cost us 2 points and we only lost the league by 1. I 100% agree with the fact you seem to get a hard time against us at OT but over a season it levels out. And some of the comments are particularly harsh on the club when the officials are surely the main problem here?
The only way anyone could prove this swings and roundabouts argument would be to tot up every teams dodgy decisions over the season to see if the pluses and the minuses are equal. Nobody is ever going to do this and the chances of each team having an equal number of favourable and unfavourable decisions over a season is pretty slim. Therefore I think this is an old Chestnut which does not hold water.
As far as our 2 clubs are concerned we get plenty of unfavourable decisions which affect the match which I mentioned earlier but I cannot recall any that have helped us as much as the ones you have been given.
All most of us want is a level playing field and for the ref to apply the rules equally and fairly to both teams.
Given the yellow cards for my team and the fact none were given to yours, I do not think anyone can say that ref handled the teams equally.
The incident with Scholes and his decision to book Modric ( our captain) when he tried to discuss the second goal decision whilst allowing Ferdinand (not your captain) to discuss the incident with him and the lino while they were deciding whether to allow the goal is proof that the ref applied different rules to the teams.
And that, combined with the Mendes goal and Webb penalty decision is why so many on here are so angry about it.
Dom you seem relatively human for a Manc troll.
Now fuck off
Is comparing chants and songs of supporters even relevant? Really? Are you going to hold up United cheers as exemplary of all that is good and right in football? Pointless argument.
I'm talking about the culture at United of win at all costs. I'm saying that it includes cheating. What I saw from Nani the other day was a willingness to take advantage of a dodgy situation to score a cheap goal and your hallowed and glorious manager Sir Alex, whinger lay blame at the feet of Gomes (who was a dumbfuck for doing what he did no doubt) but not see that on some level that goal was demeaning and disgusting.
I don't see any class in the situation. I see low opportunism and a testament to what sucks about modern football.
You say, anyone would have done that. I don't know if that's true. I do know that a lot of Spurs would probably do the same. But I do know that I would be disgusted at that goal just as I am whenever my team scores a cheap disputed goal.
You call may call that sanctimonious. I call that class. I seriously wonder if you or any of your fans have any. I haven't seen any here.
You are somewhat less abrasive than the other trolls who've showed up here to rub salt in our wounds but you still are a troll and because of that you clearly have no compass.
It's because of twats like you that I will be cheering for your demise this year. I will even cheer for the Scum to thrash and humiliate you arrogant fucks at OT.
Like I said earlier, you deserve Rooney.
Oh, and when you do lose to Arsenal, Chelsea and City, and after we beat you at the Lane, don't worry mate--I still won't troll on one of your semi-illiterate blogs and gloat like an ignorant c*nt.
I'm not surprised I seem holier than thou to a peasant like you.