Robbie Keane: Captain or Scapegoat?
Tuesday, August 18, 2009 at 3:43PM He's always divided opinion - but on form, he's as good as it gets OUTSIDE of the top 4. And when played alongside a genuine world class player (although I guess this is debatable, re: Berba being world class) he is more than triffic. On his day. But are those days behind him now?
Should he be team captain? I'd say no to that personally. Error made by HR for two obvious reasons. First, he left the club and was only signed back because Defoe got himself injured. Secondly, considering the 'experience' he had at Anfield, it's not like he came back brimming with confidence, regardless of his prior loyalty and goal-scoring record. Although you could argue that he did help us out in those early games that saw us push gradually upwards. But it wasn't a dynamic Keano of old, leading from the front like he had a thousand firecrackers up his arse. It was more akin to holding up a single sparkler and waving it around. He lacks the fireworks since Rafa ruined him. Ruined, but not beyond rebuilding.
Does he deserve some of the negativity and abuse being dished out to him on message boards and in the stands? IMO, no he doesn't. But then stick around and watch how some of the village idiots turn on other players (and the manager) when we manage to get ourselves unstuck. Keane splits the fans much like Jenas does.
He's an easy target at the moment just because he doesn't hit it as often as we'd like. Big debate ongoing over at where all the Spurs melters live (Glory-Glory.co.uk). Here's some of the sound-bites in a thread that simply asks: Why, after such a good performance, is there STILL scapgoating? (in reference to Keane playing well against Liverpool).
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I am referring to the frankly ignorant bashing of our team captain, Robbie Keane. I mean why? The bloke had a really good game yesterday, was at the heart of most things good, missed one sitter yes but saw two great saves on him, linked supremely well, yet the bashers come out with a f@ck this and f@ck that, someone even complains about the amount of time it took him to limp off the field (indeed, he should've been jogging n that injured foot, and if he did that then you'd be saying he should waste more time!)...
The guy cannot win. And I think it's pathetic. Seriously. Pathetic - thfcsteff
He's a shadow of the player he was, who has shown his true colours. I support him while he is on the pitch but that doesn't mean I have to like him or rate him. Personally, I'd rather any of the other strikers at the club played instead of him because in my opinion they are all better than him - ledleysswollenknee
The Keane bashing is ridiculous. He finally looked his old good self again yesterday and I thought he had a great game. Some people are just bitter cunts. We hate the likes of Campbell who leaves us on a free, not Keane who we got 20 fucking million for. Was good to see that he could play well with Defoe too - disc0
He missed chances which could have won us the match. He has been crap since re-signing and yesterday, although one of his better games, was too wasteful to be deemed a good performance. People see him as a traitor, especially due to his poor form on returning to Spurs, and many are angered by the fact he seems to be 'stealing' Ledley's captaincy and has attained an 'undroppable' status. Objectively I think he didn't have a great game, but shouldn't suffer the abuse he is now getting. I don't think he should be in the first team, even if Crouch wasn't fit enough yesterday, Pav's performance against Olympiakos, for me, meant he should have played ahead of Keane - Pandy
Keane isn't a clinical finisher, we all know that. He had a good, very Keane-esque game. If he makes 3 chances like that for himself every game I'll be quite happy - McBoggers
Keane is becoming such a controversial player that even the press and match commentators are picking up on the observation that he looks past it.
Even his body language and look doesn't resemble the old Keane... I guess he is really struggling now, and his 60 min substitution looks to me the first nail in his career coffin for spurs.
My loyalties are to the club - and I'd be happy to sell Keane if we can find a replacement. Fine you may think Keane is good, I think we need and have always had better in attack. If Keane has to start, he has to perform; if he is a striker he has to be expected to put away chances with ruthless efficiency. Lets not make apologies for underperformance - metalgear
Read more of the discussion here.
So, should Robbie Keane still be captain? Should he start games ahead of Crouch or Pav? Has Robbie Keane lost it?
Love or hate?
Reader Comments (61)
show him a little more respect he has scored over a centry of goals for the club and works his arse off every game surly he shud at least be considered as captain
Where in there does Spooky slate Robbie? I think if anything, he's trying to prove a point about the fickle Yid faithful.
Spooky has always been a big supporters of Keane. Don't think he's quite found his form again but then would you after going through what he did? Massive ego slap he got up there and he then comes back to a struggling side because there was no other way out. He'll prove the doubters wrong.
The blogger is posing a question based on that discussion at GG. Personally, I'd much prefer King to be team captain (he's club captain). When King doesn't play - Woodgate will do. But he's injured. Keane needs to wind the lads up a bit more. He's definitely lacking something.
Sell him to Villa. Bring in Negredo.
Should he be team captain? I'd say no to that personally. Error made by HR for two obvious reasons.
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/\ What spooks said. He obviously doesn;t want him as captain.
Coming back to the club having left and in the circumstances, it wasn't the greatest idea. Pressure wise, he can't really help much either. Support the guy, want him to succeed (again) for us. But there are players in the side that should have been considered.
I guess Harry thought it would be inspirational.
Keane has one major thing going for him as far as I can see. He want's to be here and he wants to win back the heart of the club. You can tell it from his interviews and his play.
If that desire does translate to improved performances on the pitch to the level where he was before his unceremonious deprture then I'm all for it. He makes space and creates it for others when he's 'up and at it'.
I jsut want the old robbie back, and you get the feeling (well I do) that if he takes a few of these chances early on in the season, more will follow.
Not sure he's a natural captain or leader, but then I think that is a different issue as I can't see anyone better currently wit hthe 'natural' leadership skills that we need.
I cant see why Ledley shouldnt be captain with Woodgate number 2. U dont have a player who is one of four options being your captain. U dont just suddenley lose form in 6 months, so the guy definately deserves to play. A striker knows when he has played well, so if after 60 mins he`s not doing then he must come off, whoever he is. Defoe and Pav to start tomorrow, Crouch to join him and let Keane rest his shoulder .. properly
If we get rid of Keane, who's going to do all the pointing and shouting?
Keane is an industrious deep striker.great control, great fight, great positioning, great awareness, great ball retention, always troubles the opposition, drops deep left right and centre and so pulls the opposition defence all over the place
holds up the ball, links up the play, great captain for us, motivates the players, get team spirit up just by being on the team sheet, a talisman. His finishing was never great. He is the only deep striker we have . To say we should have kept Bent is a red herring. Bent plays much further up and cant hold up the ball. Keanes link up pla and hard work in deeper areas is essential to our success this season and anyone who thinks otherwise knows little about football or doesnt actually watch any Spurs games.
I'd get rid of him,over rated player imo.
Should he be captain? I don't know..I don't know what he says in the locker room or what impact he has on the other players relative to anyone else. if you base it off experience at spurs, then yeah, i don't have a problem with him being captain but i feel like as outsiders, we don't have much to base it on...
...as for playing, i'd say definitely give him another start tomorrow with defoe...see how it goes it back to back games...i really want to see pav out there soon though...he deserves a chance to prove if he's improved since last season...im sure it isn't easy adjusting to the english game after already playing all summer...
I have no problem with Keane. I sure wish we hadn't payed as much to get him back as we did, but you cannot deny that we needed him at the time of the sale. IMHO, the only thing that needs to get sorted out with him is his "undroppable" status. We have other strikers that deserve more time on the pitch and we need someone who compliments Defoe, our best finisher we have right now. Keane to me should be a super sub, coming on with energy and running for whichever of our strikers is the most tired around the 60 minute mark. By the way, our strikers should be running around like madmen. We have so many quality striker subs that their work rate should be much higher. They should know that we can substitute for them with quality and that we want them to be as active as possible as often as possible. I really like watching our pressing defense and think that with defensively active wings and strikers, we can play some hard nosed defense against ANYBODY.
can people actually quantify what they mean and say whether they actually go to any games. rather than frustrating unbacked up comments like "I'd get rid of him,over rated player imo." uttey tosh.
Keane is our hardest working striker. bizarre comments again from Kevin
Personally I think that Keane shouldn't be Captain, it does as people have mentioned give him almost this undroppable status. From what I saw (only the highlights) he did well on Sunday, ok didn't get the goal but looked like he deserved it. I say leave off the bloke and give him a chance to prove himself again. Saying that I think putting Pav and Defoe upfront against Hull would be nice just to see how they get on.
can people actually quantify what they mean and say whether they actually go to any games. rather than frustrating unbacked up comments like "I'd get rid of him,over rated player imo." uttey tosh.
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OK I WILL!! HE'S THE MOST OVER RATED FORWARD IN EPL,EVERY TEAM HE HAS PLAYED FOR APART FROM THE SPUDS FIRST TIME AROUND HE'S BEEN FOUND OUT AND SOLD ON! I THINK YOU MADE A MASSIVE MISTAKE IN BRINGING HIM BACK. IS THAT ENUFF FOR YOU LASKOIR? OR IS IT LIKE THE "UTTEY TOSH" YOU COME OUT WITH!?
For the Keane bashers; are you goldfish with such short memories? The guy has given his heart and soul, scored lots of goals and works his bollocks of yet it's not good enough for some of you pricks. Defoe can miss many chances too and hardly plays the ball to other better positioned strikers. Don't hear or read many people bashing him?. Why? Some of our supporters and those especially in the Paxton end should fucking grow up and shut up.
Have a nice day...
HarrysGotAtwitch, you obviously know nuts about football! Check your Stats & you'll find that Keane is one of the most successful strikers in premier league history. Based on the 4 strikers that played against Livepool, Keane was the most prominent. Even Harry siad in the post match interview that he worked his socks off & was unlucky to score.
If you're truly a Spurs supporter, you should back your team & not slag individuals who make up the team just because you don't appreciate them.
Bottom line, even if he doesn't score, but helps the team win matches then thats all that matters.
Harry'sgotatwitch = dick
Keep PSB, he will get better. I vote we don't sell anyone else now.
COYS
I've always rated Keane. Sure, he's not been as good since his return from Liverpool, but anyone who scores more than 100 goals for our club instantly gets my respect.
HarrysGotATwitch do you actually support Spurs? From you speaking about us in the 3rd person I think not..... If not, it begs the question what you are doing on here in the first place.
I didn't want Keane to come back as much as anyone else, but now he is here we should support him until he leaves/gets sold. To be fair to him on Sunday even though he missed those 3 good chances, he was in the right place at the right time, more so than Defoe (who I rate more highly)
My first choice front two would be Pav/JD or 3MP/JD. But I don't think he has started too badly even though he didnt score. We should just get behind the Spurs, In Harry we trust, hasn't done us too badly so far........
Harry'sgotatwitch = dick
well thought out jt
JT = PRICK
there you go,feel better now ive dropped to your level?
Its too easy to get caught up in the he is a traitor issue with Keano and as much as I would like to rise above it if I am being honest in my eyes he went from hero to zero and has a long way to go to get back to the hero status and crowd favourite he obviously craves.
I thought he worked hard on Sunday but is the least we should expect. He is a good player and deserves to get his fair share of games but in my opinion he should definitely not be captain (I would have King, Woody & Dawson ahead of him) and should not be a guaranteed starter.
Hull could be a bit of a slog so I would go with Crouchie and Defoe.
I argued strongly that we should not have re-signed Keane on principle, not because he has not been a good player for the club but something along the lines of making beds and and lying in them and having some pride.
I was roundly criticised for cutting off my nose to spite my face which charge I accept.
Secondly I argued strongly that he should not have been been made captain, because it makes him virtually undroppable and he is not first or even second choice striker for me.
We don't know what effect he had on the dressing room after his return but it was almost certainly positive and we did better when he returned than before.
But he is not the player he was, Sunday's missed chances show that and his form in the run in last season was poor.
I think Spooky is hinting that he would like us to raise the level of the debate a little.
My instinct, very unfashionably, is that Robbie IS undroppable. He is going through a dry spell (although if you ask me Liverpool was actually a very good performance) but it just seems when he dosen't play (see the twenty mins or so on Sunday) we just shrivel and revert to Bent era Spurs where we appear more confident with the ball in our third then the oppositions. What sets Robbie apart is that he is always available for a pass, always wanting a pass, and having a player like that brings out the best in all those around him.
Keane is experienced at all levels of football, has an excellent work rate and offers a whole lot more than a goal poacher such as Bent in that he can take people on and create chances. It's a team game and I'm not sure how giving him grief can be regarded as supporting your team. He's by no means perfect but he has the desire to win, an ingredient sometimes missing in a few of our players and doesn't go missing in games. This is why he is captain.
Nice to see Pav and Crouchy, despite being on the bench, enjoying BAE's goal on sunday. There must be a good team spirit in the dressing room nowadays.
Keane has the talent and the eye for goal which can find the back of the net like a magnet.........
at the moment he is slightly out of tune it seems with his mental picture.......if he had taken both chances against liverpool there would be comments saying how brilliant he is......he was in the right positions so it should sort etc
.... I think once he stops thinking about it.......his captaincy is due to his great experience for club and country......the main point is a sense of stability is felt by the team as a whole to keep the good signs as shown on the weekend.....
its not a bad situation for our front four...keane maybe without the berba factor is not there in some movement..he must know what redlknapp is seeing etc....
Given that Ledders played about 30 games last year (and there is no Europe), I do not see why he should not be Skipper. If he is fit, he plays. That should not be the case with Keane since we have four strikers all of whom should and will be used.
In my view a keane and defoe partnership is not as fruitful as a little and large partneship because it does restrict our options at times. For me, and in a little and large partnership, we would be better off with Defoe. I thought that even when Berba was with us. Not that I thought keane was lacking, its just that i see him as far more prolific. Keane will however fill that role perfectly well and I understand why we brought him back.
The danger is if it becomes the captaincy that gets keane in the side or if H tries to fit the side around giving keane enough time on the pitch, at left mid or behind the front two etc. He needs to give all the strikers an equal and fair crack and find the best partnerships for different tactics and the one that is most prolific. Keane should also play up top or not at all.
I would not have given Keane the captaincy. But since he now has it, I would not give it back to King. I would give Palacios a full season and he would be my pick come 2010. Big Willy is the man.
Oh my good lord.! Support really does seem to have a different neaning for some people.
disc0 , hello, anybody home ?
Let me say one thing. Do people honestly not think that players read these sites - after all it is about them we are talking about. You have to be very strong willed to not be tempted to have a read of what people are saying about you and you get the gist of it from the crowd's reaction on match day anyway. Now then, with all the criticism directed towards Keane and given the fact that we have atleast another 3 good strikers who want his place, all this pressure has to have an effect on the player, no matter how good or experienced they may be. Indeed they are only human after all. His main chance on Sunday, the header. A confident and on top form Keane with the crowd behind him, might well attempt to put that ball in the corner of the net. As things stand, it is better to guarantee hitting the target and forcing the GK to do his job by headering straight into the middle, as opposed to trying to guarantee the goal but increasing the chances of missing the target by aiming for the corner. If your confidence is up and also the crowd are in a more forgiving mood you will take bigger risks, on the contrary confidence not so high, unforgiving crowd, etc better to play percentages put it down the middle insuring hitting the target and hope for the best. Now people will say rubbish, he gets paid to bury those, etc, etc, etc. Fact is, strikers tend to get a few good chances every game so on that basis if they play 38 games a season why do they not score 38+ goals a season. After all 90 minutes on a football pitch, as a striker you are bound to get atleast 1 good chance if not many and if you do what your paid a lot of money to do, you should bloody make sure you bury it, after all that might be the only 1 contribution to the game. Then you get top players described as top players, because they have crap matches but put away that 1 chance they get and that makes them top players. If top player, why not getting more chances given game lasts 90 minutes and is confined to a rectangular box by players suppossedly at the peak of their ability and fitness, bla, bla, bla. The point is, Keane is a striker and firstly has to play well enough to out-fox potentially 4 defenders into getting into a decent position to be able to have a chance of scoring. He then has to actually connect properly etc and still has to beat a GK who is paid perhaps equally as much to keep them out (and Reina is a man mountain) - thus as long as he keeps getting into those position's and getting those chances, we know that he is good enough to score more than he misses and that is what makes a top striker. Defoe for whom there is no criticism did and just praise played more than Keane on Sunday and did not force the GK into one save for all that time. On this basis, will people accept that they are being biased against Keane and start supporting the guy instead of criticising unfairly and unjustly because at the end of the day he represents us on the pitch and one would assume that as the club pays his wages he will want to do the best possible by the club, of which there is conclusive proof of nearly 7 years of him having put on the white shirt. He showed ambition not treachery - a natural human trait and we were very well rewarded for him to have the balls to take the step up and get out of his comfort zone at Spurs - where he was loved and adored and knew he was 1st team every week, week in, week out. He is now back and at 29 knows these are his peak years for the next 2-3 years of his career and then that is probably it. Last year, must have been an emotional and mentally draining experience and still he scored around 10 league goals in 30 league games, a perfectly respectable tally for a Prem striker. If he gets back to his form of 2 years ago, we have a 20 per season striker and as we all know thpse are like gold dust. Not saying he should guaranteed captaincy or 1st team or whatever, but definetly should be guaranteed our respect and support - that is for sure. Not only for what he has done at the club in previous years but also what he still has to offer on the pitch in what is now his peak years.
As for Crouch, he should have the least to complain about at the club of the 4 strikers after all he is the new guy and actually cost less than any of his main rivals. More importantly than all that he gets to go home to Abby every night and is being paid 10's of thousands for the priviledge.
did anybody see the video of keane's reaction after gomes committed that foul in the box? i love keane but his reaction was disgraceful...going immediately down to his knees with a look of utter disgust...the part that really got me was when he got back up, he had an 'i told you so' look on his face when he got up and said something to carragher (which is left out of a lot of the online videos i've seen of it)...basically looking like he was talking trash on his own goalie to an opponent...i understand that it was a pretty dumb move on gomes' part but that is NOT something a captain should EVER do and i was very, very disappointed after seeing the footage.
i mean, no disrespect but is stuff like that more common across the pond? because if an american sports team captain did that he would get absolutely roasted by the media here.
In Keane's defence, seeing as am one of the few who is looking to do this, after being with us for 7 years and the amount of games in the last few years where we have been in the lead against the top 4 only to go and throw it away stupidly (how many times have we let 2-3 goal advantages slip let alone just 1 goal advantages) he was probably more like bloody hell not again. We outplay them and they get a crap goal or something. Also against the top teams we do seem to let them in a lot of times via penalties, lost count of the times we have lost to Utd by a bloody penalty or because of one and this time it was Liverpool. Against these sides, you want to make them earn their goals hard, not give them bloody penalties which just makes their life all that easier. In the end we got the win, but at that moment he probably thought here we go again...........
Baring in mind that for the time he was on the pitch, probably no one ran more than him and it is crushing to lose because of a mistake and not because of superior play by the opposition as has been the case with us for so many years when up against the top 4. If we can get leads against them, it means we are more than good enough to compete with them and beat them and like I say many a team it is sillyness more than anything that costs us. The fact is Johnson was going wide and Gomes if he makes that decision the truth is he has to get the ball if he leaves his 6 yard box like that.
i mean i'm cool with him being upset and maybe giving a sigh and looking at the ground for a minute but he looked like he just found out his mother was murdered or something...it was a bit over the top...and as i said it was his gesture to carragher that had me more upset...
and for the record i'm not in the camp that wants him out or to immediately relinquish his captain-ship...i like him...he's a big part of the reason as to why i because a fan of spurs...i'm just disappointed and upset with his conduct after the penalty...
Perhaps trying too hard to show what it means to him because fans claim he has no love for the club, is a Judas, etc, etc. Campbell left us for our worst rivals at a time when we were crap and we got nothing for him. The animosity there is understable, certainly not against Keane though.
I'm not anti-Keane. I don't want to sell him. I think he offers good things on the pitch. I don't want him as captain if it means he always plays no matter his form.
Meritocracy please. The best partnership should our strikeforce. Nothing I saw 2-3 years ago, or last Sunday makes me think Keane and Defoe will work well together.
i will always go for the defoe - pavyluchenko combination. they had some games last season where both impressed together.
here we go :
Keane : i do rate him simply because of the loyalty he has shown before , because of his workrate and his will to win , could do with a striker like that in my team but lack the finances to buy him :-) The fact that he moved to liverpool does not make him a traitor like campbell or the sulky bulgarian ... Ok he points , shouts and shows a lot of emotion negative and positive but thats what football means to me : a decent first touch , pace and passion.
Berbatov : world class player IMO , scores easily , technical skills fenomenal , workrate also fenomenal but the other way around
Captain : i d say no ... for a player struggling with himself it is better to relieve him of any extra stress and responsabilities - King will do fine after all he is mister spurs more then anyone
Pav : really deserves a shot at partnering JD up front
I remember a certain Mr.Klinsmann leaving a certain team in the 90's to go to Bayern Munich, leaving his chairman seething with rage, and claiming he wouldn't even wash his car with his shirt. I also seem to remember he came back, whilst we were in peril of relegation, and scored a few goals. I may be wrong here, but, he is still loved, still a Tottenham Legend, still evokes great memories in us fans. True, yes? Fact is Keane left, same as Klinsmann, came back, same as Klinsmann, though back for good, not a loan, has scored a shitload of goals for us, been a Legend for us, same as Klinsmann, yet, there the parallells end. One is loved eternally, and the other castigated and Treated like a traitor.
Anyone care to elaborate on why this is the case?
US Futbol:
I missed Keane's reaction to the penalty! Thankfully, I recorded the match so I'll go back and watch it. If he did react negatively, then the manager should give him a thrashing. Would Harry do that at this point? Don't think so. We're off to a positive start, albeit with only one game under our belt and we will need to avoid all forms of negativity going into tonight's match @ Hull.
King is out for tonight so Keano will definitely start as we need a captain on the pitch regardless. I could say drop Keane as captain but when I think about it, who would we designate in that role? Only remaining person would be Woodgate but he isn't healthy either at this point. Robbie works hard and his "pointy shouty" attitude might just be what pushes our players on and off the pitch.
Another 3 points please! SPURS!!!!!!!!
elwehbi...i'm not sure if you'll catch it watching the game...i watched the whole game live and didn't know it happened until i watched sky sports last night where they showed him from an angle i hadn't seen before...i agree that at this point itd probably do more harm than good for harry to give him grief about it but its disappointing and frankly very disrespectful to gomes nonetheless
well if harry saw it, i'm hoping he had a quiet chat with robbie about it just to bring it to his attention that it's not proper for a captain to behave that way... i'm sure keano would listen and adjust accordingly
Keanes reaction to the penatly was not what you would expect from a captain. Especially when he failed to covert a header from 5 yards which was not far behind gomes rush of blood in terms of errors that could have impacted the result.
Interesting comparion with Jurgen made and them same can be said of Teddy but I don't remember either of them kissing the badge and stating that they would only leave if the club didn't want them....the main difference is probably just the passing of time and the perspective that brings. If Robbie plays another 5 years and scores 75-100 goals I am sure his legendary status will be in tact.
the guy deserves some credit IMO , if not for his history at the club then just for the effort he puts in his physical shape ... he gives all but after failing in Italy and Liverpool he has confidence issues
At least he works to come back compared to certain other players ...
He should try to get a grip , look for a positive attitude and start scoring again
But i am in no way claiming that he deserves a place in the starting 11 ... he just doesnt deserve to be treated as the worst player and getting a lot of foul criticism ...
Berbatov is a traitor (in the way he left not because off leaving ) - Robbie can't hardly be accused of behaving like Berb did. I ask myself the question , if someone was to offer me double my salary for the same type of job in another company would i leave , or if someone were to offer me a footballing contract would i leave my friends and go play the game i love somewhere else ... i would say yes ... thats not being a traitor thats just being realist. For them it is a job and i for one go to work every day to get paid ...