Manchester Utd yoof, Spurs targets and The Project (Part II)

For Part I click here.

Part II

Spooky - Okay, enough of the boring off the field shenanigans and boardroom politics. Let's talk a bit of football. Does it get boring winning everything, you silverware-hugging show-off you?

Scott - Honestly? No. You hear our players talking about it and I think it reflects the fans' opinion too. The more you win, the more you want to win. You get greedy for it. You win the league title, and whether that's the first time for a few years or the third time in a row, it feels f***ing brilliant. I can't claim that the last time we won the league in 2009 made me feel the same way a City fan would feel if they won the league this year, because I imagine being used to winning things takes the edge of it a bit, but no, never boring.

Spooky - What's the gut feeling for this season then? Plenty of suggestions in the world of blogs and forums that United are over-extending themselves, masking over the cracks with one or two bacon-saving individual performances. It would be unwise to write you off considering that if currently United are considered off-key, you're still top 4 early season. Are you perhaps worried that there's not enough genuine balls deep world class quality in your side to really push Chelsea? Do you accept that you wont win the title?

Scott - I think we're going to win the league every year. We're not looking great right now but we haven't really got going yet. Nani and Berbatov have definitely stepped up to the plate, but players like Fletch and Evra who have been so important in years gone by, have gone off the boil. United tend to do well after a World Cup but it's looking to have a negative effect this time around. If we don't win the league, it's because Chelsea do, but I can't see Arsenal or City finishing ahead of us.

Spooky - So, in that case, you don't face a battle on your hands to finish in the top 4?

Scott - No.

Spooky - Do United fans prefer having to fight tooth and nail for the League with Chelsea or whomever, or do you prefer the 90s when you won everything at a canter, more or less?

Scott - Oh it's far more exciting having to fight for it. Winning the league by a point on the last day feels so much better than wrapping it up a few weeks before the end of the season. I wouldn't say we won things at a canter in the 90s though. You look at 99 and 96, with our squad spread across winning other trophies, and we just scraped through at the end.

Spooky - What do you think the fans reactions would be if you finished just outside the Top 4 and SAF was another year nearer retirement?

Scott - Devastation, I suppose. How would the fans react if we got relegated? How would the fans react if we won nothing for 10 years? I dunno. It's too hard to answer a question about a scenario you just can't imagine happening.

Spooky - Talking of which - who do the fans feel is likely to take over as Manager after SAF's retirement?

Scott - Erm, Mourinho is desperate for the job. I would rather Laurent Blanc or Pep Guardiola, and have battled long and hard against Mourinho getting the job, based on his dreadful personality and the job he did at Chelsea. He spent a f**k load of money but the team he left them with was inferior to the one he inherited. It's hard to argue with what he's achieved at Inter and is achieving at Real Madrid, playing the attacking football we require.

Spooky - Concerned about City? If not this season, next?

Scott - No. If anyone will f**k this up, City will. This is the 3rd year of The Project (TM) and they're not nailed on for anything. They've got less points this season than they did with the same games played under Hughes a couple of months before he got the sack, their best player is repeatedly talking of his unhappiness and wanting to retire, and as every transfer window passes they seem to make it their challenge to bring in a player with an even bigger ego than the ones the window before, to try and battle it out with Mancini's massive ego. They will implode sooner or later because all these stars who joined with the promise of lots of money and trophies will soon get bored of lots of money and no trophies. I think Robinho put it best at the start of this season: "When I arrived, the directors at City told me that, in a couple of years, we would overtake United, but the time has passed and nothing has changed."

Spooky - United have harvested a lot of young talent from around the world, sometimes at eyebrow raising expense (Bebe, Mame Diouf, Obertan, Tosic, Smalling). Are Utd fans concerned that very few of these appear to be worth the money paid? I know it's subjective, but it's a question birthed from the curiosity of other fans assuming United fans are scratching their heads.

Scott - All of those players are 21 or younger, so I don't know how you can say whether they're worth the money or not. Diouf has scored a hat trick at Blackburn this season, as well as scoring against Arsenal, Bebe has scored for Portugal's U-21, Smalling is doing well for England U-21 and has scored for them, Obertan is a fans' favourite. Tosic is the only one of those that didn't make the grade but we got our money back for him, so no biggie.

If we start writing players off when they're 21, we're in trouble. Ronaldo scored 9 league goals in 33 games for us when he was 21. He was a one trick pony, a waste of money at £12m.

Spooky - On a similar note, who is the best of the home-grown Utd talent (i.e. Cleverley, King, Drinkwater, James etc etc)? Have United still got a stranglehold on the best of the country's youth?

Scott - Cleverley looks to be the business. Ravel Morrison is the next one for the future. Corry Evans (Jonny's bro) looks good, Will Keane too, and James Chester. Our youth set up is really impressive and Solskjaer helped the Reserves to be crowned champions of England last season.

Spooky - Are you worried that you have VDS, Rio, Scholes, Giggs, Neville, Berbatov, Owen, Hargreaves etc to replace in the next 2-3 years but have (i) no cash and (ii) a lot fewer decent young players making it into the first team squad than historically?

Scott - Neville, Hargreaves and Owen hardly play, so that's not such a worry. The idea is that Cleverley can fill Scholes' boots (nobody can fill Scholes' boots, he's the best midfielder the Prem has seen, but he'll give it a good crack), Chicharito, Macheda and hopefully Welbeck are options for up front, Bebe/Obertan to fill the gap on the wing. The only position that hasn't already got plans is the goalkeeper, which I imagine the club will take very seriously after the farce we endured once Schmeichel retired. There will be some money to spend though, if the players who have been earmarked for these positions aren't up to scratch.

Spooky - Berbatov and Rooney should be the strike partnership to end all strike partnerships. Why isn't it?
 

The casual guide to feeding squirrels by Dimitar Berbatov

Scott - Who knows? The manager can't get the best out of them and they never seem to hit form at the same time. Berbatov and Chicharito is a far more potent combination.

Spooky - Will you stop attempting to tap up and steal our players now you are so poor?

Scott - We should really take a leaf out of Spurs' book. Levy and Redknapp never attempt to tap up and steal players.

Spooky - Steady now. Our Daniel writes letters of an apologetic nature to the fans. He can't possibly be underhanded. What with all the donations to the Tottenham foundation. I might as well ask this so we can all prep ourselves for the inevitable knocking of the door...What do United fans think of the current Spurs squad? Which of our Lilywhites would you want at United and why? How many Utd players do you think would get into a combined Utd/Spurs side?

Scott - I remember towards the end of last season and we were still in the race, and Spurs came to Old Trafford. As the players and subs were read out over the speaker, it really hit me how many top class players you have. Probably the best squad to come to Old Trafford last season, no exaggeration. I mean, you didn't play well, but there's loads of great players at Spurs.

I like Dawson, Modric, Van der Vaart, Bale and Palacios but working out a best XI is difficult. Bale and Nani on the wings, and Modric and Van der Vaart in the centre of the park alongside Fletch (he isn't playing well this season though :S) or Palacios. Berbatov as a lone striker? I'd have Van der Sar over Gomes (WBA mistake aside), Rio and Vida over Dawson and King (even when they're not on the treatment table), Evra at left back and right back? Well, we've played O'Shea there more often than not this season, so I'd have Hutton over him. I like Rafael though.

Spooky - Bale, Modric, vdV…all linked already. Honestly, hand on heart. Can you see yet another one of those Levy complaint letters doing the rounds on the official site next summer?

Scott - It wouldn't surprise me if Bale and Modric came to United. I can't see Spurs doing well in Europe AND retaining top 4. Something has to give. Fergie is a fan of both and I imagine both would be interested in coming. But maybe Levy won't be so f***ing retarded as to send them on a plane to Manchester though.

Spooky - You're breaking my heart over here. And finally, we might as well mention Utd v Spurs. History tells us United will win. Regardless of Howard Webb or lack of goal line technology. We tend to implode up at Old Trafford. I'm sort of confident that we could get a point or even do the impossible and win away from home against a 'Sky Sports Top 4' side for the first time in 400 years. Thoughts on the game? You've not been amazing thus far, but neither have we. In fact, we have both dug deep to win games. So, close game? Dare you predict?

Scott - Given the strengths of your squad, this should be a game to make us worry, but like you say, you don't tend to do very well against us. You'll score against us, because everyone does, but I fancy a United win. 2-1.

Spooky - I fancy a Spurs 2-1. Ooh. It's going to be a corker. Cheers mate. I guess all that's left for me to say is - pleasure as always. And make sure you d*ck City at the very least. Ta.

Scott - Only if you make sure you do the same.

And they both lived happily ever after. Well, only one of them. To find out which, watch the game on Saturday.

The End.

Mancunia chats Rooney, Glazers and Spurs (Part I)

Once more we stand at the gates of hell staring into the devils eyes.

We have no fear.

Say it louder.

We have no fear.

Okay, look, standing there shaking like a leaf and stuttering the words isn't exactly going to work. Believe the words you speak. Live the words. And then follow it through rather than capitulate and implode.

Now onwards, Harry and soldiers of fortune. Onwards into the pits of hell itself...

Yes. It's that time of the season when we visit the Theatre of Howard Webb. We've not done badly in spurts against United in recent years. Taking the lead, bossing it, but then proceeding to fall back, bending over for them to all the deliver of their seasonal thrusts of hurt. United are not on top of their game at the moment and if we hold our nerve...Well, I guess we'll have to wait and see. Would dearly like us to finally win away to one of the traditional Top 4 sides for the first time in 60+ games. Letter to Santa posted.

So for the tradition of pre-match banter I thought I'd return the seasonal favour (no, no, not thrusts) and this time interview the Red over at the majestic Republik of Mancunia blog, rather than have him ask me the questions. It's the polite thing to do.

So warm welcome to Scott the Red losing his DML cherry. I promise to be gentle.

With thanks to the army of anti-United fans over at Glory Glory for their suggestions for questions. So enjoy. It's a good read. One or two fallacies about the Manc club we love to hate placed to bed. 

 

Spooky - First up, let's get Wayne Rooney out of the way. All a bit of a mess, no? What went down exactly? Stretford choking money out of United for his client? Ploy by Fergie and Wayne to get the Glazars to promise funds for the war chest? Surely it's not been done to maximise a potential future fee off the back of the five year contract signed? What's the feeling with how events unfolded in and amongst the United faithful?

Scott - We know football is dominated by mercenaries and I suppose United fans feel foolish for believing Rooney is any different. He'd kiss our badge, bang out about how he wanted to be like Giggsy and Scholes and spend his career with United, that he loved the club etc. And we believed him. So of course, it's disappointing to learn you've been conned.

It isn't just that he's money led though but that he was prepared to leave us for City. The deal was done but he bottled it after the reaction from the manager, the media and the fans. I think he figured out there would be a bit of fuss, some booing when he came back to Old Trafford and that would be that. I don't for one moment think he instigated it all, that would be former vacuum salesman Stretford, but Rooney is accountable for his own actions and shouldn't choose to associate with such a ****.

Still on the upside, it now looks we'll bring in top players, which is great. It also means we're in complete control of where Rooney goes and for how much. Before he signed the contract, we would have had to ship him off in January to whomever was prepared to pay the most, but that's not the case now.

Spooky - So, will you be accepting Wayne 'once a red always a red' Rooney back with open arms or accepting that he's royally mugged off the club and fans for a bumper pay packet always with that option to still move away?

Scott - He's completely ruined the relationship he had with the fans. There will be some who will revert to how it was the moment he starts scoring important goals, but for me personally, that's that now. I'll celebrate the goals he scores and I'll hope he does well, because he's a United player and I want the club to do well, but I'll never feel for him what I did. I suppose it's similar to the Robbie Keane situation, although Rooney hasn't gone around kissing someone else's badge saying it's a dream come true.

Spooky - And Fergie's quote about the cows?

Scott - Yeh, weird wasn't it.

Spooky -  Do you think there's any chance at all that Rooney would have agreed that Man Utd had an acceptable level of ambition and trust in Ferguson if an angry mob hadn't turned up at his house in the middle of the night threatening to kill him if he joined City?

Scott - You think Rooney agreed a five year deal with a club because 30 lads in black showed up at his gates and couldn't get in? Be serious. I don't think Rooney was fearing for his life.

Spooky - Thirty lads? I heard it was Robbo, Paul McGrath and Norman Whiteside, all loaded with booze and waving broken bottles. Or perhaps not. Regardless, it all smells a bit funny to me. Just doesn't sit right. Rooney's form hasn't been anywhere near decent for a while. Would be disturbing if he played out of his skin when he returns to first team action. So is he genuinely injured?

Scott - Rooney has been injured since March when he did his ankle against Bayern. He was rushed back for the second leg, for the away game at City, with us wanting him around for the vital games at the end of the season. Had there been no World Cup he'd have been having treatment most of the summer. But obviously there was the World Cup and he carried his injury through the summer until the start of the new season. That's what was so bizarre about Rooney's claims that he'd never been injured. We'd all seen him sitting on the bench icing his ankle at the Reebok after being subbed off after an hour the week before, so who did he think he was kidding? The fact that he's been waiting for the wh*re story to come out and a deal with City to be finalised probably hasn't helped his state of mind though.

Spooky - Ah City. What is it with City fans and their obsessions with getting tattoos of players they've not (and don't) sign?

Scott - They're giddy. They've been waiting their whole lives to compete with United (think about it, a City fan would have to be at least 40-years-old to even have vague memories of his team winning something) and so desperately cling on to anything that seems like glory or success.

Spooky - Talking of the enemy, what about those pesky Glazers? It's good spin for them, no? Responding, supposedly to Fergie and Rooney's 'demands'? Perhaps a spin worthy of an ounce of respect from the dark depths of your soul?

Scott - Ha! The Glazers could come up with a cure for cancer, United fans still wouldn't have any time for them. You know, Forbes magazine this year said we're the most valuable sports franchise in the world... more so than the New York Yankees, Real Madrid, all that, so should we not be holding on to players like Rooney? Contrary to what the papers quote as his salary, which includes image rights and bonuses, Rooney has signed for £160k a week. Obviously that's an insane amount of money for normal people, but when you compare it to what Tevez, Ronaldo, Ibrahimovic, Adebayor earn, it's not great. When it comes to signing players and paying players, money should be no object to a club like ours, but it obviously is. The fact that the Glazers have managed to keep Rooney (I assume our season ticket prices won't be frozen for next season!) is standard, not something they should be praised for.

Spooky - On the subject of Yanks, considering the success Liverpool have had ousting their bogus owners don't you think as fans you have been a failure in ousting the Glazers? If that's been the attempt. Some would argue - the problem at OT - is practically the same as the one at Liverpool but at a far slower and less chaotic pace. Is it because there are too many glory hunters that are not hardcore enough that don't understand the situation? Many whinge bitterly about the Glazers, yet continue to hand money over to them every week by going to games - thus giving them their main source of revenue to pay the interest on the debt they've attached to the club.

Scott - Liverpool cost £300m. United cost £1b. Our problem is finding someone to pay that amount of money for us. If it was just a case of finding someone prepared to pay £300m, this would have been resolved years ago.

I renewed my season ticket this season and for the first time really considered not doing so. I had read stuff from MUST saying that since 2005, something like 50,000 people had given up their season tickets, and they'll be thousands more on top of that who didn't have season tickets but have stopped by match day tickets. But Old Trafford has 75,000 every home game, despite the fact that many people or more have boycotted the ground. Whilst I still believe that my seat will be filled by someone else, who doesn't sing, who views the ticket as a nice day out, I won't give up my seat. That's selfish on my part and it doesn't sit right with me, but if you give up your seat to get rid of the Glazers, and you do get rid of the Glazers, you don't get your seat back.

Spooky - How 'realistic' was the Red Knight's alleged bid?

Scott - Well, the Red Knights could be viewed in a similar way to NESV. A group of people who couldn't individually afford the club, but collectively could. You have to be wary that you're not just jumping out of the frying pan and in to the fire, but anyone who claims to have the fans best interest at heart is surely better than owners who refer to the fans as 'customers'. MUST gave their backing and the RK ship hasn't sailed just yet, but who knows what will happen.

Spooky - So are the yellow and green brigade fighting a losing battle?

Scott - The g&g was about raising awareness and putting on pressure. We went 5 years with limited media coverage and with the Glazers not feeling the heat at all. But a few months in to the campaign you have David Beckham joining in and the Red Knights talking about buying is, two things that never happened before. Maybe g&g is over now, I dunno, I still wear my scarf, but it has served a purpose.

Spooky - I guess wearing Norwich City scarfs is highly unlikely to scare off the Glazers. Perhaps pigs heads thrown onto the pitch will be far more effective? Or if possible a scooter?

Scott - It was never about scaring them. It was about getting worldwide recognition of our plight in hope of putting pressure on the Glazers to leave. We're not there yet. We could have saved the pig's head for Wastelands if Rooney had gone.

Spooky - Betty's hot-pots? Would be easy to smuggle into the ground and you could get a fair distance when throwing them? Err…anyways, moving on but remaining on the subject of the Glazers and scarfs, I've always scoffed at the irony of wearing the green & gold scarf then draping it around an AIG logo. It's akin to Spurs fans during the dark days throwing their season tickets onto the pitch in disgust…on the final day of the season.

Scott - Yeh and traipsing in to the Megastore to buy their United bedspread and lampshade and whatever else.

Spooky - You mentioned season ticket renewal. I'm assuming then that the 100k season ticket waiting list is a fallacy. People have alleged that getting tickets is relatively easy although the impression off the back of what some would call propaganda in terms of how hard it's perpetuated to get tickets.

Scott - Well, we know there is no waiting list now because they put the season tickets on general sale this year. If someone had told me ten years ago a United season ticket would go on general sale, I'd think we must have gone down to the Conference! But that waiting list has been whittled away year on year. We've got 52,000 season ticket holders now and over 50,000 people who have already given up their season ticket.

Continued in Part II

Berba - What does he do exactly?

Some NLD pre-match blogging on the way later today, but first for something off topic but still sort of related in that it's all about an ex-Tottenham player who moved onto bigger and greater things. Yes, it's true. The squirrels up in Manchester are better than the ones down south.

Dimi Berbatov. What does he do exactly? Well according to this article here over at The Republik of Mancunia - a lot. Far more this season than he has achieved in his prior ones - including the two years spent oozing swagger in Lilywhite. Sure, he looks as gloomy as ever, never smiling, dodgy unsexy haircut, and always apologetic in gestures. And there's no doubt that Fergie has not attempt to build the team around him, preferring instead to use the £30M man when required rather than use him as a Ronaldoesque talisman in every game, no matter the opponent.

So, do stats lie?

RoM concludes:

The number of goals Berbatov has scored and created this season is of a higher rate than any of his four years in England, higher than both Carlos Tevez’s years at United as well as Alan Smith’s first year at United (and only year he played as an out and out striker).

Berbatov has scored/assisted almost a quarter of a goals this season, despite not playing anywhere near as much, and scored/assisted over a quarter of our goals last season when competing with the likes of Cristiano Ronaldo, Wayne Rooney and Tevez.

Tricky one. I agree he's undervalued by most United fans I know and Spurs fans tend to believe he is wasted at Old Trafford simply because he is not deemed good enough to be the main man in a team of classy work-horses, which at Spurs he was (main man, not a workhorse) - as he was the catalyst of creation up front for us. Until his sulks won the day for his escape on the last day of the transfer window to CL football and titles.

The linked article does state an obvious reason, a reason why many fans turn on players quickly. Why there is patience lacking. The transfer fee. Darren Bent, David Bentley - both suffered because of it. Berbatov, it seems is creating and scoring. Okay, perhaps not scoring epic magical goals, but he's not exactly a dud either. And yet even though he's perhaps far better than what most would suggest, his body language and his lack of freedom to dictate his own tempo up front can suggest something is being lost in translation. He's playing fine, but perhaps not fine enough to warrant the money and effort spent to pull him out of Spurs and sign him for Utd.

Berba at Spurs, on fire, was/is a completely different kettle of fish than the one at United. But he appears to be more productive in red than white. Or perhaps not.

I guess it's all down to personal perspective in the end.

Cheeky bid?