Harry Out!
Monday, September 3, 2012 at 10:03PM Here's some more pro-Villas-Boas commentary (or should that be pro-Tottenham?) from other apologists, via my Twitter time-line, also taking the balanced approach. No agenda here. Just common sense.
AVB is going to need time. Fixing a "broken" squad, coping with life after King/Modric, introducing new methodology. Can't expect top 4.
The majority of Spurs fans (anyone vaguely level-headed) can see this. The rest expect too much, too soon. We will likely fall back this...
Those "fans" booing Jenas at the first home game, booing at half-time, and booing at full-time need to get a grip & get behind the team IMO.
@WindyCOYS
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I think its important to remember that we have won 3 league games since that demolition of newcastle in mid february
None of these players were performing before avb took over
And we have weakened the squad by selling 2 out of our 3 best players and arguably the 2 most creative players in our entire squad
"there are rich teams, there are poor teams and then there is us". No not something Daniel Levy said - it's a quote from Moneyball but v apt
@DarrenLA
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When you look at the squad Redknapp left, he would have needed to majorly overhaul it for this season if he had stayed.
Only Walker, Kaboul, Daws, Caulker, BAE, Bale, Lennon, Parker, Bale, Sandro & Defoe realistically in his plans for next 2 seasons
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I've gone into the season expecting a step back before we take 2 forward. The media will use the fans booing as signs of trouble.
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Who was the last high profile big name player Spurs brought? Excluding the reasonably priced fluke of VdV
The likes of Rebrov and Bentley have probably burnt Levy. Truth is that we have never been a club to buy a player at their very peak
Without CL it is perhaps completely understandable that Levy remains tight with purse strings
As fans we perhaps expect too much to keep up with the city's and Utds... But in recent years we have always nurtured young talent...
... Or given a final chance to great players.
This is what saw us finish 5th twice under Jol, and 4th, 5th, 4th under Redknapp
If you were Levy with that success you would probably be rightly cagey to spend money.
However as fans we want the best and want that marquee player
Parker and Friedel. Now Dembele, Sigurdsson, Dempsey. All reasonably priced, all proven in Premiership
If players all had exotic Spanish sounding names or were from Brazil or Portugal and cost 2x as much, I think we would all be delighted
... But we get two players from Fulham and a guy from Iceland (no denying Lloris and Vertonghen are great though)
Maybe Harry had a point? "Never had it so good" - wasn't referring to 61/62, but the 90's - fan expectation high compared to recent success
Wanna play in Premier League or spank all our cash and end up deducted points, playing in League One, or worse, bankrupt?
Levy is tight, likes a bargain. Sometimes it works, sometimes it don't. But we still have a club in the premiership. (Portsmouth Leeds)
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Following tweeted (via TwitLonger) by @EwanRoberts. You'll find it's familar as I've been banging the same drum.
Wrote some stuff about Spurs' form in 2012, pre-AVB:
Many people have said that all AVB had to do to succeed was continue the good work done by Redknapp and build upon healthy foundations. But that’s just not the case. Totally ignoring the players we’ve lost for a moment, AVB’s having to repair rotten foundations, re-build the soul of the team, boost confidence and morale, get a losing team back to winning ways.
Our form now is a hangover from our form at the end of last season. AVB was given a team that was rock bottom in so many respects. We may have finished fourth, but that did not adequately represent just how truly awful we’d been in 2012.
If you take the second half of our season – the second set of 19 games – we won just seven matches. A win percentage of just 36%...and three of those wins (none of which were convincing) came in our final four games. If the league existed just over that period of time we’d have been in 9th position, behind Wigan, Fulham, Everton and the usual suspects.
Those figures include an additional game for us compared to all the other sides (the postponed Everton match @ WHL, because of the riots). If those three points are discounted, we drop to 11th place.
There’s been lots of people saying “mid-table here we come” and such, well mid-table’s been beckoning for a while. We’ve had the form of a mid-table side for 5 months prior to AVB’s arrival. This isn’t his fault, our poor early season form isn’t exclusively of his doing.
If you look at the nine game run from the 5-2 loss at the Emirates in February until the 1-0 loss to QPR in April – a period that represents almost a quarter of the season – we were 19th in the form guide. Played 9, won 1, drew 3, lost 5. 6 points from a possible 27. Goals scored = 9, goals conceded = 14. 0.67 ppg. Only Wolves were worse off. Only two sides (Wolves and Norwich) conceded more goals.
Five teams conceded five goals twice or more in a single game in the league last year, and we were one of them. Norwich, QPR, Bolton and ourselves conceded five goals twice, Wolves conceded five goals three times. Two of the five teams are now in the Championship.
We’ve been crap for a while. Not only is AVB having to prepare for life after King, Modric and van der Vaart, he’s also having to turn around the fortunes of a club that has been in a six month slump. Frankly, given the form of the side it’s easy to see why AVB is happy to undertake wholesale changes to the squad. And it’s also clear that it will take time for AVB to mend a broken team. And that's what AVB inherited: a broken team, not a title-challenger.
Want more of that brooding drum?
From The Fighting Cock forum, via @vadimivich:
On 08/02/12 Harry Redknapp was cleared of tax evasion charges. On 12/02/12 Tottenham absolutely smashed Newcastle 5-0 in front of a delerious crowd at White Hart Lane
Since that night...Spurs have won only 4 of 16 Premier League matches:
That's 18 points from the last 16 league matches, which is barely above the relegation mark. And we're talking about almost half a seasons worth of matches now. The frustration setting in with the crowd isn't just for a few matches under AVB, the entire club has been in a very long, deep funk for quite a while now - and under 2 different managers.
We know there's quality out there on the pitch, but it's been a long time since it showed itself. The club is mired playing relegation level football and something needs to happen to snap everyone out of it. I'm not sure what that needs to be, but this isn't just a few games under a new manager kind of funk...it's set in deep at this point.I think the point is that it's not really all on the manager - there's a group of talented players that for whatever reason haven't been playing to their talent level for some time now.
Frankly, it looks like a confidence thing ... the players on the pitch look tentative and lost, not just attacking but also defending. There's not the assertiveness and aggression we saw when this group was playing at their best. I'm sure the nervous home fans aren't helping, I'm sure the negative press isn't helping, but what this teams needs more than anything else is to just go out and smash someone and get that confidence back.
Notice the trend? It's in there. I promise if you look deep enough you'll see it.
It's the international break now, so this civil war is going to drag on for a little while longer. With any luck I'll find something else to blog about by the time the weekend arrives. If you want the flip side of the argument, then please read the comments section on the last few articles published on this blog.
Follow @Spooky23 on Twitter.
Reader Comments (74)
I'm happy coming 6 th or 7th if the promise is there. I never had CL expectations for this season. But does Levy??? I hope, I'd we finish way of 4th that levy backs VB into the next. There's a lot of work to be done, I hope levy recognises this and gives VB the time he needs
The problem is AVB will get stick in the press non stop because unlike level headed people like those in this blog some people are plain stupid and listen to the media propaganda.
Chelsea fans keep saying to me look at what AVB is doing he is ruining you're club blah blah blah and i respond with under Harry we lost 2-1 at home to Norwich and won barely any games from feb to the end of the season & they reply with but you ended 4th and i reply with we dropped a 13point gap over Arsenal.
My point is as long as there are stupid people in this world & people in the press that love Arry then AVB will not get a chance with the English media out to get the successor to the mighty "Arry" i mean look at all the piss taking they gave Roy just because Arry did not get the England Job.
Give AVB time and if we are still looking piss poor come May then do something about it.
really good article, some common sense and not tarnished with the media smear that Harry's mates like to use in an effort to big him up. I really believe spurs will come good under the new management, we have a squad able to play a controlled passing and pressing game, just need time to find ourselves and rule the roost.
Just want to say, Spooky, that I'm with you absolutely, despite not posting to your last two pieces (because you said it all, with your usual thoughtfulness) ......... what we need to do at all costs is avoid the kind of booing and caustic self-destruction that seems to be building in a certain section of our 'supporters'. If we all get behind the team they will begin to grow again and we can build on that. If we collapse into negativity and people force through another change in management, the boo-boys may end up with more (meaning less) than they bargain for.
I'm tired of the obsession with the Champions League. Some people don't seem to be able to enjoy each game in isolation. What's the point?
Look at the Europa League group we're in, it's decent. Watching Spurs take on famous European teams is still a lot of fun and if we were to keep up qualifying for the Europa League for a couple of years, developing a nice style of football, beating the scum and chelsea sometimes, and beating the manc sides sometimes, I'd be made up. We'd get less booing and less "I've paid my money, so I'm entitled to lots of goals" nonsense.
Of course I want us to win the league and the Champions League. But all this tunnel vision and entitlement is sucking the fun from supporting Spurs.
Thanks for the points above. I just used them to address moaning Spurs fans on TalkSport's Sportsbar.
Cheers up me spurs muckers...look across at our neighbours for 2 reasons, plus one more.
1. We clearly have lots of talent and just need to play better which we know we can, they might be about as good now as they'll get
2. They had a stinker last season and still came good, as long as we see some improvement and results all things CL are still possible from 6th,7th,8th at Christmas....but we'll be better than that
3. Taking the Europa seriously and some better tactical nous and we might win a cup or just get a couple of big away scalps, it would all look a lot better then.....
I do find Levy's actions, at times, embarrassing. If the stories are to be believed, we messed Lyon around with regard Lloris and I recall reading a comment of their chairman saying that it was the hardest transfer he has had to preside over in the 25 years. I half admire Levy's hardline, but think he takes it too far on occasions.
Also, I think that his hardline hampers us and loses us 3 or 4 games at the start of the season. Generally, Man U have the players they want in place at the beginning of pre-season. This gives SAF a chance to build a team and integrate new players into the side. Every single year we seem to be playing silly b*ggers, holding out until the very last moment in order to get a bargain or squeeze the last pound out of those buying from us. This has a dual negative effect - 1 - the squad take until the end of September to gel together - 2 - we invariably can't get rid of the flotsam and jetsam that are a drain on our resources. No disrespect to players like Jenas, Gomes, and Bentley but between them they are probably taking £7m to £8m a year out of the club - money that could better spent on youth development or world class wages.
I still believe we will come good this season and challenge for a top 4 place, it's just a shame we only have less the 35 games to achieve that goal.
People should stop baying for AVB blood. He's young, enthusiastic and has to prove himself...could work out well if we're patient
Cival war about sums it up ,really fucking sad all round .
I really don't understand these fans who love Harry so much. I agree we at times played wonderful football, but we slacked off at the end of each season in a huge way. We were buying old players on the cheap with no real plan for the long term (Saha, Nelson), we would have lost our best players anyway (King/Modric), and he's an old man commuting 100 miles a day to do the training. None of these things are good for long term success. A fan wanting that is just in this continual state of fear and hope that we can make top 4 each season, forget the cups, forget Europa league, hope King can make it through a few more matches, play 4-4-2 everywhere and get spanked (5-2 at Arsenal anyone?) by the good teams. Each year starting afresh.
I'd much rather have a young manager in, change to a decent 'modern' style of play (ball possession, players with good touch, control and vision), take interest in the youth set-up, plan for the move to the new stadium, nurture the Tottenham way through all levels at the club, etc.
Now, I'm not sure if AVB is that wonderful long term manager or not, but no-one else here does. So give him a season at least. If we're mid-table but playing good football (like Swansea, for example), with Lloris playing out from the back to Caulker and Vert - I'm in. I'm in.
I was at that Newcastle game, and I didn't join in the 'we want you to stay' chants, but I don't hate Harry either. If he'd have taken the England job, fine. Just like Modric did well for us and moved to a bigger club, you can't stop someone moving to the 'ultimate' job. Plus I knew that if things turned to crap, those same chanters would be chanting for him to be sacked. They're probably the ones who boo-ed Jenas - a guy who puts on our shirt and always gives 100% for the team. I remember 'ooing' when Palacios was back and not playing well, but that wasn't against him, it was oooh that's embarrassing or oooh that's dangerous. I still love the guy and applauded him whenever I could. Get behind the team and that includes the management, ffs.
I am a Spurs fan living in Dublin so I only personally know 5 genuine 7 genuine thfc fans. 2 of those are my children. The main source of interaction I have with spurs fans is on Twitter and I really have not witnessed any anti- AVB/Levy knee-jerkism.Maybe I'm fortunate enough that the 100 or so spurs fans I follow are all level headed reasoned, seasoned fans. Or perhaps more is being made of the few fair weather, glory hunting fans who've given booing players in our beloved lilywhite shirt. I feel as a real fan that we have a team and a manager be proud of, who we can understand and assumes some accountability. One who speaks with respect for other teams players and certainly all parts of his squad and the club generally. A man who understands what the aspirations of the club are on and off the field and will tow the line in that respect. AVB shares the ambition of the chairman and was brave enough to take on the challenge of re igniting a misfiring squad with the British media praying it all goes wrong and doing all they can to pile on the pressure. I personally feel it is just a matter of time until it all clicks.
I am still very positive about our future. After some really good signings thus summer we have a squad which will challenge on 4 fronts this season and VB has a habit of picking up trophies. He's already had mire success in his career then Redknapp.
COYS
I agree wholeheartedly that AVB should be given time to put the team he wants together but the problem is our chairman also acts as the front runner in any of our transfer business.
This is made all the more obvious by Levy insisting upon the "Head Coach" role. Levy is not a football manager and when he is left to his own devices to replace valuable squad members (ie: Michael Carrick- Didier Zokora scenario) he doesn't always get it right.
Regardless of form, we have no playmaker and no Modric replacement and our team is unbalanced. Levy has had 1 YEAR to replace him and he has failed.
He promised AVB a significant transfer budget and we've spent net -6m. 16 players have left whilst only 6 have been signed.
Panic buying on the last day of the transfer window is a disgrace, I'm pro Tottenham as much as you guys but the buck stops at Levy on this one I'm afraid.
Some useful facts: average premier league finish pre-Levy 10.6
Average premier league finish post take-over: 7.6
There seems to be this odd view that he should be spending money we don't have. As for "Levy is tight" - ENIC have invested in a new stadium, something that Liverpools owners apparently won't stump up for. Basically he is being punished for not being the oil sheikh we know we deserve. [Under Enic our net transfer spending is about £130m [transferleague.co.uk]. And the 7th highest wage bill [Deloitte review of football finance 2010-11]. We have spent the 6th largest net amount out on transfers since 2003. [transferleague.co.uk]]]. This would suggest that finance wise, there are only 5 other sets of owners in the league who spend would be better in purely financial terms. So thats that one gone. Even if you think that Harry was the 2nd coming and Levy has made a mistake then that mistake can only have taken away what Levy has himself built up over the last 11 years with huge investment. He is not immune to criticism, in retrospect he has clearly made many mistakes over the years - but I am not arguing with reasoned criticism here, I am arguing with the baying, drooling, booing, Levy out morons.
leave me alone you mugs, we have been building since the prem began! you cant build for the future and sell your best players as soon as they are good! the days of man u's youth team coming through are well over! you buy instant success now or you fall behind! its a business, you buy the league now, you dont win it! unfortunately we are all still in love with the traditional football club of old! its painfull being a spurs supporter because we are always so close to being good. at times a little investment would have got us up there, but we are a selling club and a feeder club for the elite few. we just gotta deal with it and know our place! coys
Excellent post and the stats should be a must for all those fans with short memories or too many hours on Championship Manager. I must admit that I'm baffled as to how many Spurs fans seem genuinely happy about the slump we're in. Getting some kind of perverse satisfaction out of seeing the club (AVB, Levy, whoever... But the club nonetheless) suffer. One described himself to me the other day as a 'Harry fan' (I would presume that he used to follow Pompey, and Southampton & West Ham before that) and demanded to know if I was pro-Harry or Pro-AVB? I said 'neither, I'm Pro-Spurs', at which point he just looked confused. I always thought that we were quite an intelligent bunch but this really has me stumped as to how pig-sh*t stupid we're being.
Yes, please find something else to blog about. This entire conversation is getting boring. You at least have the ability to change it, Spooky. So please do us all a favor.
Just been looking at last season's results and couldn't believe we lost at home to Norwich.
Hope I am still allowed to post a quick few thoughts on the above at this esteemed Spurs blog, just to balance the above.
What I am worried most about is that a new myth is created to create unity amongst some supporters. Harry did not leave Spurs as a shambles. Everybody knows that he created a crisis, or failed to control the effects of the media hype about him becoming England manager. Harry is very much to blame for a large part in my opinion. But by the end of the season we won three out of four games. Yes we dipped in the second part of the season and it was painful.
But Spurs got to fourth. A result that is positive whichever way you look at it. Don't let your disappointment about fans not supporting the club enough make you rewrite history. And I am not a fan of Redknapp either. I hate seeing him and his family on adverts on the telly just like anyone else.
Everybody knows that the last season was freakish to say the least. Chelsea winning the CL, Harry touted as England manager, Modric constantly rumoured to leave.
Now I know that everybody who is critical of Levy and Boas will be suspected of being an evil remnant of the hated Harry regime that some people obviously feel so disgusted about. But it is always tempting to equal criticism with lack of support when it often only comes as a result from passion, passion for the club. I am critical of Levy and his appointment, but I am a big supporter, and would not bother having an opinion if I couldn't care less. But I also hate the boo-boys and I wouldn't think of booing players or even manger or chairman.
However, I reserve the right to be deeply critical of the management. And that is despite I will admit that they have done a reasonable job at keeping the finances intact.
However, I believe it is not the job of the management to please the fans and it is the fans job to keep a critical eye on the management at all times. Fraternisation is for players and supporters. Keep watching the management.
And this is not just a general opinion. I have serious reasons to be critical and suspicious.
I haven't forgotten the bid for the olympic stadium which would have taken the club out of the borough. Some people may think that is a minor matter that was required for financial reasons. It was more than that it was the threat to take something from the people here that they have built. Anyway I won't linger on that subject any longer, it is in the past now.
Another matter is the serious doubt anybody who has watched the club over the years (near 30 for me). We have seen the talent the management has had over the years to choose managers. Almost every manager who was chosen by the management, be it Enid or Sugar, had to be sacked due to various reasons.
You thought Harry's dip in the second half of the season was bad? What about Hoddle? The only successful managers Enid appointed were forced on them. Jol was assistant to the ill fated Santini and was promoted when the celebrated European manager failed to get along with the management, and especially their 'director of football'.
Harry, as we all know was appointed after Ramos had that disasterous start at the 2008 season, which still festers darkly in my memory. Management then had not much of a choice. A steady ship was required and they thought Harry would steer the ship past the rocks and then kindly give them some excuse be sacked as soon as a new fancy managerial superstar was available.
You may not share my concerns. You may think that in times of need everybody should just cheer the new regime and get on with their lives. That's not really an option for me. I feel just as some people are mindlessly glorifying 'arry and his clan and revel in his banter a bit too much, there are some people who want to bolster the shaky new boss by wiping all of Harry's achievements out of the history books. It won't succeed and it is not necessary. We can be critical and be supportive, in fact the two go hand in hand.
There we go. Just my opinion, yours will differ. Too bad. Modern technology makes ranting and spouting half-truths much too easy and I am guilty of that, of course. I don't think I would do it at a game or in the pub while watching. Anyway, hope the season gets properly underway now that the team is settling in, the booboys will fade away and we can all forget the bickering. COYS.
A possible reason why the "wrong paperwork" was sent on Moutinho (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19471132)? They were either going to sell Hulk or Moutinho, not both, and it seems that they may have had an inkling that the Hulk deal would bring in the greater money. Good luck to Hulk with regard to the Zenit racists.
@Mark: Which was the disgraceful panic buy on the last day of the window? the world class keeper, or the £4m player who scored boatloads last year, the buying of which completely screwed over Liverpool? Of the 16 (really?) that left, how many actually played more than 10 minutes last year? Believe me, I would love to be able to swoop and pay whatever the inflated asking price is for a player, but pushing the transfers to the limit is the only way that we were able to make that bid for Moutinho. The reason the net spend is so low is the new stadium - our net spend dropped a couple of seasons back as that gathered pace. Moutinho bid means there was another £22m + wages to spend btw, it just didn't come off.
"im happy coming 6th or 7th and building for the future"
"im such a loyal angelic supporter i cheer the team while were being mugged"
"i love jenas hes good you lot just cant see it"
"daniel levy is a fantastic chairman, look how much profit he brings the club"
"we did try to get damiao, moutino, kaka, hulk, ronaldinio, tevez, berbatov (again), sahin, huntelaar, blah blah blah blah..there was just a small hitch every time, always the players fault of course!"
"you must not boo or show your disappointment when the club is blatantly going down hill, go and support arsenal if your like that"
"im glad modric, berba, carrick, vdv, ect all left, our replacements are much better, ill give to them if we ever play them again"
"wasnt rednapps fault the team collapsed pathetically when the england job came up"
"so looking forward to the new stadium i wont be able to afford to go to"
mugs! stand up and be counted or just all buy yourselves a rape alarm and get on with it!!!
Selling club don't make me laugh. If that was the case with could've cashed in on Walker, Caulker, Sandro, Bale, Lennon, Defoe in the summer. Turns out they are the only ones from last season with a real future in front of them.
VDV was great in spurts but why did Real let him go? Where was the cue of Prem sides trying to buy him when we could all see signs of a departure? Dawson I love, in fact I have spent the last 5 years verbally battling a scouser at work, telling him Dawson is international quality... Who come in for him? Oh yeah QPR. I have struggled to defend Dawson as time went on but I love the bloke. Does AVB want a high line? Is Dawson known for his speed? As for Modric did the scum miss out on champions league when fab left? Will they struggle this year near the bottom of the table without RVP? Did Man utd fold when Ronaldo went Madrid?
So true!
spurs muaythai. Can't tell if serious.
HOW DARE I SUPPORT MY TEAM! A TRUE SUPPORTER WOULD DEMAND THAT THE ONLY SOLUTION IS TO WAVE THE WHITE FLAG AND SACK THE MANAGER AND START OVER*.
*Caps lock for added effect
Harry couldn't play chess against the big boys. You name the teams to these results from last season: 5-1, 3-0, 5 fecking 2, wot was the semi? My memory is blocking due to trama... But you get the drift. 4-4-2 make a striker sub between 65-90mins. Why didn't the FA want Harry? Who was Harry's first few signings? Keane, Crouch, chimbonda, Defoe, talk about forward thinking what a difference. Keane v Dempsey, Crouch v Dembele, Lloris v Chimbonda... Blah, blah. I don't know if AVB is the right man but I'm willing to gamble. Still can't get over the fact we lost at home to Norwich last season.
On the subject of blogging, there is no rule or regulation, no governance or order to it. I can go a week without writing or post 10 articles in the space of 2 days. The consumption part is up to you.
Just for clarity - people tend to browse in and post when we are not doing well. Many of you gravitate towards the misery and fail to say hello when we win.
Everyone who is of the opinion that the booing has to stop and are going to the QPR match, sing your heart out. We can't tell people what to do but we can lead by example. I can guarantee you there are more people at the match that are backing the manager and team than not. I'd say about 1/4 of the ground is booing, which is still a hell of a lot, but there's even more people there to do the singing and supporting. At QPR, we need to outsing all the idiots.
The problem is you can prove anything with facts. . . Redknapp won 3 of the last 4 games of the season - a points per game ratio of 4.44, which, if maintained for the entire season, would have won us the league ahead of City's 4.2. I really mean nothing more by that than that you can use stats and facts which ever way you wish. It is no less legitimate to use this run of games, or, more significantly, the run of 18 games that began from game week 3, in which we won 15, and drew 3, to argue Redknapp was a title-challenging manager. The heart of the issue is whether you think the slump in form - those infamous 9 games beginning at the Emirates - were indicative of a 'rot', of a need for fundamental reform, or whether you considered them a little blip. If you think the latter, then, regardless of what your opinion of Redknapp was, you have to question whether there is any need for us to be in 'transition'. We're not in Liverpool's situation, where Rodgers undoubtedly has rebuilding to do. If you happen to think that we performed like title-challengers for all but 9 games (which the stats suggest we did), and then consider that those 9 games included away trips to Arsenal, Chelsea, Sunderland, Everton, and a QPR side that had just halted Arsenal's 7-game winning run by beating them, and a home game against Utd, then you are left to analyse three home games we should have won - Swansea, Stoke and Norwich. We won 1, drew 1 and lost 1. That is, without doubt, not good enough. But nor is it the disaster that some of the 'balanced' pieces quoted in your post, Spooky, have presented.
Intersting thought spooky... Superstition has play on my post numbers... You see being close to success causes me to panic and go quite. I fear the mocking when the wheels come off in a home defeat to say a team like Norwich or a 5-2 drubbing by arseholes... I have a fear of being quoted and mocked in my moment of despair to complete my total humiliation. If and after we won trophies of worth I would post relentessly with no fear...
Osvaldo Ardiles & Ricky Villa for together man for man we no he,s goner play a blinder in the cup for Tottenham come on you Spurs are on there way to Wembley Tottenham,s goner do it again! Come you Spurs raise your game.
why is tottenham one of the most quietest grounds around we used to rock WHL now its more like a library sort it out get behind the team and cheer them on. we will come good lets rock WHL again
Oh when the Spurs,
Go marching in,
Oh when the Spurs, go marching in,
I wanna be in that number,
When the Spurs go marching in
It's what success does. And let's be honest, we've not even had any genuine success just progress. Playing the Spurs way should be enough, hiccups included.
The spurs way no longer exists Arthur Rowe revoltionised the game, Bill polished and created perfection. Everyone wants pretty winning football... even the scum. It's now the way of the game, not spurs' way. We need to find a way to grab a piece of the action. We know it's close but we can't touch it yet... We want to be Market leaders again.
Would just like to say thank you to Harry Redknapp for everything he done. I feel like I've been harsh on him in my defence of the current project. Harry you brought back the fun for me. I loved the way we played at times under you. I just don't think I could let you be in charge for the next 3 years. It's a shame you only had a year left on your contract, something had to be done as that would've or could've undermined your authority and set you up for failure. I just couldn't see us developing at a financially sustainable rate under your management. If levy is aiming for the top and there is cash that needs wise spending then there was no choice. I hope at AVB can better you but you certainly raised the bar. Thank you.
Grim. Grim. BOOING? 3 games in? Toddlers...
We have an enviable squad in many respects - they're just getting used to a new boss, with new ways. Maybe it will work out, and maybe it won't. If it doesn't there will be a new manager soon enough. If it does, then fantastic. Hooray.
Can everyone just calm down a bit? We weren't going to win the title last season, we really weren't, but we did blow third place really abominably. Getting fourth felt like a tragedy, and Chelsea winning the CL was for Harry's hubris.
@The moussia - we should reinstate Harry immediately if he was averaging 4.44 points per game. Fcuk me, we`d only need to play home games and we`d win everything! Don`t know how so many fans overlooked that startling stat.
Spooky, just to reassure you many of us do get it. Thank you for providing this forum and putting the hard work in so that we can do just what you do - express our opinions and feelings. I can`t believe how many people regard this site like a newspaper and seem to believe you have some moral responsibility to produce balanced pieces. Days like today must make you feel like knocking it on the head. Please don`t.
For those that don`t get it - this is Spooky`s therapy, his method of dealing with the ups and downs without smashing the house up or beating his missus. And he has every right to express his opinion as forcefully as he likes, as everyone else on her does.. For those sensitive souls who are offended by it.....probably best you go elsewhere for gentle chit chat.
wait 4 the calls of harry wen its 2pts from 8 games! the season is only 3 games old judge avb wen e has his whole team 2 pick from! personally hopin tht his plans dont include livermore sorry but he's awful!
Why are we not playing beautiful football like we used to? What is wrong with the team? Are the players not up to it anymore? Are the tactics beyond the skills of the players? Are WBA & Norwich the new Barcelona? Why was our best player, for two games in a row, the goalkeeper? Are we going to strike fear into our opponents this season? What is our ambition? Do we have any? After 3 games the questions get deeper and deeper. We are already way off the pace. WHY?
I'm perfectly willing to give AVB time and perfectly willing to agree that boo-ing the team is a disgrace. However, I will not agree that the side needed a total revamp from last season. We could have built upon that team without dismantling it. Let's face it. We dropped a lot of points last season but I don't recall many games where we got outplayed by the other side down the stretch. I remember games where we didn't take our chances and conceded sloppy goals. The performances against West Brom and Norwich were appalling and among the worst in 2012. If we batter a side and draw 1-1 or lose 1-0, its frustrating but you can remain optimistic. To be dominated at home by a Norwich side that lost 5-0 to Fulham 3 weeks ago is a different kettle of fish. I'm all for supporting the new manager but let's not sit here in denial and say there isn't something amiss. We didn't lose to Norwich or West Brom but we should have.. by a few goals in each game.
Getting back to the task at hand. I don't think you can understate the impact of losing the guts of the team. Dawson, King, Modric, Parker, VdV (and Freidel being replaced) is a shocking transformation as I would have said they were the leaders of the team last year. Clearly, some of this is due to injury (Parker), forced retirement/transfer (Modric, King), and the last remaining managers preference (Dawson, VdV, and Freidel).
I'm not convinced that AVB is right about replacing the final 3. I think Freidel had another year in him, we didn't need to spend 12mio on a keeper. I think the defense really lacked a physical presence in Dawson the last two matches. We struggled to win headers all game and suffered for it at the end of both matches. Not to mention Dawson's leadership qualities. As for VdV, he was a big game player and a leader. I don't see a straight swap Dempsey for VdV as improving this team, even if it means an additional 4mio quid in our pockets. Lloris is a top keeper, no doubt, but there were more pressing matters at hand.
That said, Dawson looks set for a recall which I think will give the team a lift. I think he can form a good partnership with Vertgohen (who has struggled physically so far but clearly is class). With Kaboul out and Gallas' injury history, Dawson will be needed despite Caulkner's arrival. Looking at next season, I see Gallas gone. Dawson, Kaboul, Vertoghen, Caulkner would be a formidable group of center backs.
Hopefully, Sandro (who I think has been outstanding this year breaking up play) forms a good partnership with Dembele in central midfield. Adebayor should be fit by next game and we'll be able to see Sigs/Dempsey, Bale, Lennon fit into a proper 4-2-3-1 side. Team should have a bit of depth now with Dempsey/Sigs, Defoe, Livermore, on the bench.
We need a performance as much as a win.
As I have said many a time on this side, - AVB need to be given time to implement his way of playing and bed in the new signings.
This comes from sombody who was screaming from the rooftop this summer, for Levy to extend Harrys contract and was totally flabbergasted when this did not happen.... HOWEVER, - this is all water under the bridge, - our New Manager is now AVB and I am 100% behind him and his Management Team
I do NOT believe in appointing a new coach and then straight away start to demand victories and Glory! Patience is the keyword !
In this regard,it would be fantastic if Levy would come out and say, - AVB is staying for the full term of his contract, - come what may ! We are building for a new era and positive thinking will win the day !
Keep the faith
the appointment of avb happened because redknapp made his position at spurs untenable.the end of last season when we lost form from febuary and won how many games?redknapps refusal to accept a one year rolling contract?redknapps constant snipping at spurs fans in the media and snipping at the club in the media...well bugger me..he cheesed of the chairman and alienated a vast majority of spurs fans(idiots).so what should the chairman do with a manager who doesnt want to commit to the club?a manager who refuses to follow the company(club)policy in public ie no comment no comment ect ect....a manager who was likely to bail out on spurs even if he had a 2 year contract to go to another club for more money?a manager who no matter what bad performances the players put in wouldnt resign...so the chairman had to take a calculated risk and oust redknapp and bring in avb...redknapp could have been a legend at spurs.it was his for the taking...redknapp took a chance playing hardball with levy on a 2 year deal and guess what?hes gone....so in the end he could have taken a 1 year rolling contract and managed spurs..he said he loved being in charge at spurs...but the reality was he was looking for more$$$$$$ and ended up getting a payout and no gold watch...thats why the club is in the positon it is now...but we have been here before and we will survive it again....coys....
@Moe, A good spot (it was past my bed-time, clearly). The fact remains, however. Last four games (10 points) is an average of 2.5 points per game, which is more than City got over the course of the season (2.3, I think).
So both sides of the 'civil war' have facts to back them up.Both sides could do with taking it easy and cutting back on the vitriol. The boo-boys need to find a better way of venting their frustration. And some of those of you on the other side just need to be a bit more sympathetic to those who feel genuinely frustrated, they have a different assessment of 'those 9 games'. That's the only difference.
I am quite happy for us to finish mid table this season. Why, because everything takes time. My favourite quote at the moment is Rome wasn't built in a day.
How true this saying is right now. We have been poor for a long time and it's time to change. How did Fergie get on in his first season?
It is no secret that the most successful teams have consistency and what makes that consistency is a consistent manager who has been in the job for some years and has stamped his style onto the team. With Harry Redknapp we'd finally found that manager who could make Spurs consistent as well as play great football. Levy wanted Harry out and wasn't backing him in the transfer market, Redknapp was distracted by the England job not to mention his court case and still managed to take spurs to a fourth place finish. I cannot believe Levy sacked Redknapp for AVB it is a laughable decision. I will always support the team but we really have just stepped back 10 years and it is sad.
I'm suprised no mentioned this angle before (or maybe they have). You cannot build for the future by revamping half the team because when you do, you'll end up with what AVB is doing, get 5th, 6th or 7th & what happens is your star players will leave at the end of the season coz there's no CL & top clubs are luring them with better pay & promise of CL footie. The likes of Bale, Dembele & Lennon can't hang around forever for building a team for the future. They have personal ambitions too. They are not getting any younger & the press for glory will be too great. Whereas the Club never ages.
The team we had last season was the foundation for the future. All AVB had to do was build on that, tweak it not crumble & start from scratch. Thats what any sane manager would do & its not rocket science. If you want to do it from scratch, then you'd better have the moola to do so. I mean seriously, all AVB had to do was fill the gaps 1st. Dembele for Modric, Vertthongen for King, Ade in & possibly another striker to replace defoe. There was certainly no need to replace VDV. If you watched the WBrom game, you would have seen some of the deft passing that VDV did to create openings for Bale & lennon. And how much would we have spent? There would have been enough for a top class striker.
With a solid defense, a creative midfield combo of Dembele & VDV, the fastest wingers in the EPL & Ade & 1 top class striker in front, the core of the team would still be there & we could be having 6 or 7 points after 3 games.
But now i fear, if we don't get 4th, come next season we will be building again for the future & if we DO get more class acts to replace those stars that we lose, we will only continue to repeat the vicious cycle. It will only stop when we have a team of mediocre players who are happy that come seasons end, we finished in the top 10. Wake up folks, we have been doing that for many seasons until probably the last 2. And no i'm not a fan of Harry.
A fan for 30+yrs & counting,
I was well aware of our poor form at the end of each of the last 2 seasons. I was not quite aware of some of the facts stated above, 4 wins in 16, appalling. This information needs to forced upon the idiots calling for AVB's head, and booing the team. It's been painful supporting Spurs since that 5-2, I have faith however, that AVB will bring it together, we have a decent squad, it will come together, someone is going to get a hiding sooner or later.
@ The moussia - can`t see your point about the last 4 games of last season, it`s as churlish as a gooner saying that over their last game they`ve averaged 3 points therefore better than city`s average last season?
But you have hit the nail on the head regards frustration. We all feel it, even those calling for patience are also frustrated in varying degrees. `More than one way to skin a cat` - people deal with it in different ways and should be allowed to. Yesterday on here was sickening, with people trying to shoot each other down. One writer even criticised `humerous` posts. Ffs, if someone finds humour to be their best medicine, then let them crack on.
Seems to me the extreme pro Redkrapp brigade have been waiting for their opportunity and actually believe it is most important to vindicaate themselves even at the expense of the team. Our team. People have every right to boo, but under current circumstances it is counter productive, it will not make the team play better. I think some should look in the mirror and ask themselves if it is really worth sabotaging the team for the sake of trying to prove their point.
We have differing views, that`s the beauty of the situation.
But, don`t forget the most important part here. We are kindred spirits. We are Tottenham supporters, and despite these superficial differences, WE AND WE ALONE KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS AND HOW TRAUMATIC AND AGONISING OUR GENERAL EXISTENCE IS. Too many have lost sight of that recently. Can we, on match day, put these differences to one side, support the team and give the new regime the best chance? Otherwise, if it doesn`t work out and VB walks/is sacked, which manager in their right mind is going to touch us with a barge pole?
The players/ manager cannot distinguish between booing and booing the chairman. You may as well spray the stadium with machine gun fire and say `Oh yeah, that was only intended for that bloke in the Park lane who pinched my programme last week`.
Pull together for the common cause. COYAVBS.
The squad was broken?
Statistically, our ppg in the last four years >>> any other period in our recent history. The only manager who came close was Jol (knifed and replaced by Mr.'Eight Games/Two Points').
2012- we suffered a slump, then picked up 10 points in the last 4 games. Fourth. Fulop. Robben. Demise. Out, now. Knee-jerk?
Just as anyone pleading for AVB to be given a chance does not a Levy-apologist make, any supporter who preferred the status quo (ie preferring not to fix what was not broken) does not automatically equal some kind of Redknapp-cult devotee.
Better the devil you know vs Hero Worship- it's a big difference.
Fans seem intent on making this personal. We have very different opinions on whom we think should be our manager..
Question: Has anybody ever bothered to ask the players whom (if anyone) THEY would prefer to work with?
.. It's a subject seldom broached, but it's a question that would seem to be, you know, important..
.