I love Martin Jol, I like Harry Redknapp
Saturday, November 5, 2011 at 12:57PM There was something rather special about Martin Jol and the relationship we shared with him. It was a two-way thing. He loved us as much as we loved him. Although he never broke out in song and serenaded the Park Lane he did take to the mic on one occasion to thank us all for the support. Poor bastard even thanked Daniel Levy on that day.
He’s the dad you had in that parallel universe you often dreamt about where you're half Dutch. He understood how to make a connection with the supporters without any of it appearing contrived. His personality was so infectious that for the first time in an absolute age Spurs would get decent press from the journos. Perhaps they were scared of a Jol bear-crush hug, but regardless we all lapped it up. He was sincere, jovial and yet commanded a presence strong enough to inspire team spirit and unity. Football was good too. His soundbites were also pretty decent. English cup of tea, anyone?
We all know how it ended. The Director of Football system corrupted and soured and destroyed, leaving Jol checking his text messages whilst sitting in the dugout mid-game to discover he was going to be sacked. At the time there was genuine guilt felt by myself. Not that I was taking responsibility for anything the chairman and the DoF were cooking up. Rather the fact that it was inevitable it would lead to this. The Berbatov saga and the overly ambitious agenda to step up a further level undermined him and although we don’t truly know what happens behind closed doors, the script had been written months earlier and everyone just went through the motions. The football suffered. Whether it was because of the problems behind the scenes or because Jol had reached the end of the road, we wont ever know. Bit of both perhaps.
I felt guilty because I struggled with the latter. I felt the end of the road had been reached.
The question marks surrounded our inability to compete with the Top Four clubs at the time in games against them. As much as I’d have loved to have found out if he had it in him to build on 2006 he had not a chance in hell to do so because of the interference. Club obviously believing a transitional season was too much of a risk and a better quality appointment was required (the irony, I know). Stories of him interviewing/inquiring about the Newcastle job didn't help either.
Since he’s left he’s not been outstanding in his other jobs, enough to perhaps answer some of the questions (I) we had. But life doesn’t work on such comparisons. Had he stayed, had he the support of the board, chairman and DoF then he might have found that extra spark we required. Instead, it went pear-shaped as we are accustomed and conditioned too. Ramos won us a cup (which I’m forever grateful for) but language and headaches relating to over-complicated selection and tactics left us with...a certain quota of points from a series of games played.
It’s sad because Jol was a fantastic bloke. What he did do is set the foundations for hope that there was a chance of breaking into the Top Four. Give him credit, at the time it was a far more difficult challenge to achieve. The Ramos dip proved to be the shortest of transitional seasons and we all know what happened in the aftermath (some back to basics reconstruction work to make us look pretty again).
There will always be an argument that Jol’s personality masks his weaknesses. The fact we took him into our hearts with such comparative ease made it difficult when he was eventually sacked because deep down it was the only conclusion to a sorry mess. But if you think back, quite a few of us quietly hoped for change. A most uncomfortable sacrifice.
Another argument is that there is nothing to suggest you need to necessarily like your manager. Jose Mourinho has a certain manner about the way he works. It’s not everyone’s cup of tea but you’d hardly complain if he was your gaffer if he won you silverware but you might still do because his media siege mentality irks you. Jol managed to give us the two things that matter most: Pride and good football without the necessity of self-serving his own agendas.
That isn’t a dig at Harry Redknapp but parallels are always made between the two. Their game to game record is quite similar, but you can’t compare two different states of play (in terms of where football currently sits and where it sat when Jol was last with us).
The reality is; the past is the past and the future looks bright with Harry leading the way. Personally, if Redknapp wasn’t so mediacentric we’d probably not complain too much about him (don’t ignore the fact that Jol was susceptible to tactically questions and scratches of the head many a time during his tenure). Harry’s achievements are aided both by the squad we possess and the collapse of the monopoly’s overpowering dominance – but kudos to his man-management and he deserves credit. His associations with other clubs and his single-mindedness to look after number one actually rubs off on the club in a good way on the pitch as he knows the better he does the better the Redknapp brand looks. I’d rather he didn’t pretend to be one of us if he doesn’t truly feel affiliated and continue being a custodian of team affairs as we cement stability in the top tier.
Jol gave it a right old go and I'll be forever grateful for that. Redknapp did something very few expected and continues to prove many of us wrong. Its the state the club is left in when he leaves that will allow him to secure a legacy in our history regardless of whether his personality is not our cup of tea.
I’ll let you decide if Jol could achieve similar success with the current squad we have. But then it doesn't matter what you theorise, Harry is in charge now even if Harry doesn't have many songs sang for him.
So thanks Martin. My only regret is that you didn’t push Wenger to the floor when you squared up to him. Although that would have been a little bit like a Polar Bear fighting an Ostrich.
Thank you Harry. Might not agree with certain elements of how you handle team affairs and not a fan of your media work (yes, we're popular with the journos) and your them and me word plays, but you've got to take the good with the bad and thus far the good out weighs the bad.
COYS.
Love the shirt.
Reader Comments (66)
Agree. I wish he had come on earlier. Would have been easier on 'arry's ticker--and mine too! But well done to the side for coming up with a crucial win.
Reality check for the most vociferous members of the Harry Brigade: Martin Jol led us to league finishes of 9th, 5th and 5th with an inferior squad and the Sky Four at the top of their games. Compare this to Harry's finishes of 8th, 4th and 5th with our best squad ever and Liverpool/Arsenal in decline.
There is no way I would swap Jol's squad for Harry's. Anybody who says they would are either mad or stupid. Below are the teams from our 3-3 draw in the FA Cup.
Chelsea: Cech, Ferreira (Wright-Phillips 34), Essien, Carvalho, Ashley Cole (Kalou 64), Diarra (Boulahrouz 57), Lampard, Robben, Ballack, Drogba, Shevchenko.
Tottenham: Cerny, Stalteri, Dawson, Rocha, Young-Pyo Lee, Ghaly (Gardner 81), Tainio, Zokora, Lennon (Malbranque 76), Berbatov (Mido 66), Defoe.
Look at our midfield!!!!
But until May 2012 it is impossible to judge this season, failure to get CL football thus season will be seen as a bigger failure than when Jol finished 5th in my opinion.
Just to throw my thoughts in here as well. I loved (love) Jol as THFC manager, he got us back to back 5th places and while I though that he deserved the chance to have one more crack at the top 4 (without being undermined by the Ramos affair) there was a definite feeling that we'd gone as far as we could have under him. Had the board got rid in the summer of '07 then it would have been a better all around situation (if a little ruthless). Our results against the Sky4 of the time and our cup exits in 2007 were testament to the feeling we'd gone as far as we could without either a change or more investment.
Ramos was seen as a progression by the board (he had just won the UEFA with a triffic Seville side) and while he won us a trophy for which I'm forever grateful the language barrier gave the players an excuse to underperform imho.
Redknapp was ideal when appointed in '08 for the mess we were in, no nonsense was what we needed and what we got, he has show glimpses of a tactical shrewdness beyond his reputation (Milan away) but that still remains a slight question mark for me. I've never warmed to him overly as a person, I never liked him before so it would be hypocritical if I suddenly loved him regardless, but I have an increasing respect and admiration. His record is, literally, second to none in terms of points per game and that's on our all time list, not just since '92 when most records began. However, better players mean we expect more (why shouldn't we, just because we were crap in the '90's?) and last season was a disappointment because it was a "failure" of our own making. HR's reaction to that irked me more than actually missing out on 4th...yes we've had a great couple of years but where Gallas and vdv admitted we had messed up a little Redknapp was overly defensive (maybe rightly so given his overall record) but as Spooky pointed out at the end of last season just a gentle nod that we've done well but maybe just lacked the cutting edge in certain games and that winning at Arsenal and Liverpool is a sign of our progression (not like achieving the holy grail) would have been more palatable. In fact I'd have "loved" him a bit more for saying that.
We have a team that should be competing for 3rd now and that's Harry's challenge. If he achieves that, frankly I don't think anyone can doubt him any more. Whatever he's doing, it's working, however basic or subtle it may or may not be, and frankly none of us really know the truth on that one.
Now we've got a new t-shirt...7 wins, 8 games. COYS
So JH what was 2points from 8 is now 22pts from 8 games..... I will take that and smile...
give martin jol a clap but singing his name out loud when our team is playing AGAINST his was just plain embarrassing. Cheer our own fucking manager, our own fucking players and our own fucking club!!
HARRY REDKNAPP'S blue and white army! CL here we come! COYS!!
I believe that is now officially our best ever start to a PL season.
Yesterday's 2nd half became somewhat of a horror show and I chewed my finger nails off altogether.
That said, we do have a resilience that we didn't have 2/3 years ago. We would have completely buckled under the pressure that Fulham piled on. Thank God that King & Kaboul were fit, or we'd have lost by 5 with Bassong at the back!
A lot of people have said that we've almost thrown away the points in the 2nd half of the games against QPR and Fulham. The way I look at it is that we got good leads at half-time and the opposition could do nothing other than throw the kitchen sink at us from that point on. Against teams like Fulham we are always going to get closed down a lot quicker. Danny Murphy even said last Sunday that he thought the only way to avoid defeat was to prevent us from moving the ball around quickly. The Villa game will be a different story as they try to play an open game. That should leave us able to play proper attacking football.
Thought Adebayor did a good job for the team both offensively and defensively. Brilliant bit of play to set up Defoe's goal. Most teams would have looked to keep the ball in the corner that late, but he had a moment of magical vision to pick out JD instead of shepherding the ball away.
Modric didn't have the best of games, but again, he was constantly being harried by Sidwell & Murphy. There was a serious lack of space in the middle of the park.
22 points from our first 10 games, not bad going at all.......
Walkerboy, you are absolutely right. Fantastic day's work by Ade. He was not taking his chances and I thought he and VDV should have gone off for Sandro and JD, but he proved his worth to the team with his defensive play and that final assist.
But he needs to start scoring again though!
Diaz, who assembles and picks the team?
In as much as I loved Martin Jol, the honest truth is he couldn't have achieved the level of success 'Arry has achieved for us if he was in 'Arry's position. I cannot envision Jol attacking both Milan teams the way 'Arry made our team did as it would go against Jol's conservative nature. Jol seemed to always give too much respect to teams he perceived as superior to ours hence why we never had a good record against the Sky4.
It is 'Arry for me any time of the day, and any day of the week. No tactics 'Arry has shown he knows how to assemble a team and get the right players to fit into the missing puzzle that propels us forward. In his first game, he took charge against Bolton and instilled the believe to get us to win that match. He brought Palacious to add steel into the midfield and act as an enforcer since that was one area he noted we were weak in. That transformed us instantly into a difficult team to beat.
'Arry may be a media whore but hasn't he earned the right to be one? Don't great managers love to be a sound bite? We live in the present so as long as 'Arry is winning and making us a serious team to watch rather than a laughing stock for the scums, then we all have to say in unison: "In 'Arry we trust". That includes you, Spooky.
Well said, laG! I can never understand the desire for some to be so begrudging of Harry.....I don't like some of his media comments but frankly I couldn't care less if he made the most crass comments imaginable as long as he continues to put out a team that gives me as much entertainment (and the potential for more) as I've had in the last couple of years. There is a need in this country for a minority of people to be cynical and curmudgeonly about the successful people. Note that the same thing happened with Beckham/Robson/Gascoigne and even Winston Churchill! If Harry was managing a team in the USA and getting this sort of success on a budget far smaller than his competitors then he would be feted as a magician and treated like a god.
IaG Think it would be fair to say that half of the current first team were not assembled by Harry and half of the team Jol had were not assembled by him either.
My point which you have spectacularly missed is that our team now is a lot better than Jol had and because of this our expectations as supporters has been raised.
Nothing to do with Harry v Jol, more to do with 2007 v 2012.
This club has come a long way in the past 5 years, and I can't credit Harry for signing Bale, Lennon, Modric, Assou Ekotto, Huddlestone, King, Dawson and VDV.
Not saying he hasn't bought out the best in some of these players, just that the foundations Harry had were better than the ones Jol had.
Look at the 5 seasons before Jol's arrival and the 5 before Harrys. Do you get my point now?
(And AC Milan were the better team than us over both legs - if that performance at the Lane was attack minded in your eyes then you must have really enjoyed the Fulham game this weekend)
Jol made Spurs fun again after a dull period...even though Harry has had more success, Jol was much cooler.
As much as I enjoyed the Jol era, and thank him for stepping up to the plate when the french man did one, I would take Harry over Jol, every time.
I really, sincerely hope that Harry sticks around for many many years to come. I actually enjoy his media soundbites, and ultimately I think he is a little like benny, i.e Spurs is a job to him, and I shan't hold that against him. His passion for good flowing football however, can never be brought into question, and while he still gets excited just to go to training (direct quote) I think we will continue to do well for us and the majority of players will continue to respond to him.
I don't think it is a majority of Spurs fans who think this way at all.
However, I can only speak for myself and I think that Martin Jol has a slightly bizarre mythical status amongst some fans that is a little embarrassing in my opinion, especially as he rarely reciprocates.
Harry, on the other hand, gets judged incredibly harshly. Some fans pick up on every little thing he says and look for ways to make it a negative. This is a born & bred Londoner, someone who grew up watching our double team (yes I know he used to support Arsenal too 'cos of his dad, but he was pretty much Spurs from 11 onwards. He was discovered by Billy Nick and trained with Spurs well before moving to West Ham and knew many of our famous team first hand. Since then his son has gone on to play for us and captain us & his grandson supports us.
There's a great article on Harry's Spurs connections here: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/feature?id=674916&sec=england&cc=5739
Basically, despite his Arsenal/West Ham connections, Harry is more Spurs than virtually any other Premier League manager
Its ridiculous. I heard people criticise him for saying "I lost" instead of "we lost" - seriously? I bet virtually every manager has said that at 1 time or another without a single person picking up on it. It certainly doesn't mean he is trying to disassociate himself with the club, more likely he is trying to deflect attention from his players by taking personal responsibility.
The whole Levy/Redknapp relationship thing is a nonsense too. Do people honestly believe they don't talk to each other? There is ZERO evidence of any break down and things like the Modric saga, where Harry appeared to be at odds with Levy, surely people realise that Harry is saying things to try and keep the player happy. Harry's the one who has to deal with him face-to-face everyday after all
And really, Jol was never that great to be honest. I'll always remember him fondly for squaring up to Wenger and 2 top 5 finishes but I really feel a huge amount of sentiment is born out of his perceived unfair dismissal. It wasn't handled great, but it glosses over the fact that we were in the relegation zone and he had lost the dressing room.
There is much about Jol's tenure that we conveniently sweep to 1 side (the fact we were a club divided as any one who wasn't a "Jol-signing" (something we're very quick to accuse Harry of, even when it isn't true) was made to train separately, as Benoit revealed; the fact he slyed off to talks with Newcastle; Jol's tactical ineptness; Jol's lack of fitness training ("we don't do running at Spurs" as Hossam Ghaly once stated)) as we desperately eulogise Jol yet it is the opposite with Harry.
All the times Harry has said how happy he is at Spurs, how he wants to end his career here, it all gets ignored just so a few can have a jip. Jol was in charge for 106 League games at Spurs and managed a points ratio of 1.51 per game. Harry's is considerably better at 1.75 points per game and when you factor in the start Harry had, plus the fact that Jol's record brought him 2 consecutive top 5 finishes, that ratio looks all the better.
We've had some of our highest point totals ever in the Premier League, we've been to a cup final and a semi-final, Champion's League QF and we're playing some of the best football in Europe and it is 95% down to Harry Redknapp.
I fkking love the geezer. Better still, he IS one of us, a London lad and a wideboy and someone I CAN relate to.
Whatever people think, Levy was right to get rid of Jol. He took us as far as he could, spent millions and we were going backwards, rapidly. Harry, net, has spent a fraction, and particularly in the last 2 years when we've really been doing well. Some might say we took a step back last season, I disagree. We've been going forwards every year under Redknapp and now we have the most exciting Spurs team I've ever seen since 86/87. Yes we got 5th instead of 4th, but we had a superb UCL run when we weren't even in Europe at all when we came 4th
Forget about the England stuff, so what. Harry has only said what any English man would & we're mugs for begrudging him that. Is it distracting him from the job he's doing at Spurs? No. Anyway, Harry owes the FA nothing and, if people actually read what Harry's said instead of jumping to conclusions, he has hardly said he "wants" it, just that it is difficult to turn down. He's not one to shy away from difficult decisions though and he has regularly criticised the England job too, saying it is a "poisoned chalice" and how you'd have to be mad to want the job. Doesn't sound to me like he's really that bothered.
Besides, even if he does go, look at what he's done for us. He'll have turned Spurs back into a force and leave us on a high. Venables is often fondly recalled by Spurs fans but he left for the England job (OK, it was a little more complicated than that & wasn't really at Spurs before, but England had been eyeing him up for a while whilst he was our manager & he did join them almost straight after his post at Spurs became untenable). I don't see the problem. If Harry goes, good luck to him, he'll have built one helluva platform for his successor to take us onto greater heights..
We owe Harry an awful lot. It pisses me off when I hear an element of Spurs fans having a go at him. I understand each to their own, but so many of their arguments are invalid and born from prejudice
Just to quote from that Redknapp article:
"Dickie Walker asked to see my dad for a chat and I ended up the next four years at Spurs training on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Tony Marchi took the kids and Bill Nicholson had time for us boys and that's where I first met Bill Nicholson. During the school holidays I would train at Cheshunt where I first came into contact with the likes of Dave Mackay and Danny Blanchflower.
"I ended up following all their games, especially the European midweek ties which were something special in those days; when Spurs played against sides like Gornick and Bobby Smith terrorised opposing goalkeepers the only way Bobby Smith could.
"I ended up at West Ham and people think they are my club. In many ways they were when I played there with Bobby Moore at the age of 15, but now Spurs are 1000% my club."
A thousand per cent Spurs? YIDDDDDDDOOO!
Totally agree with the last post, somehow a myth has been allowed to fester that Harry's had far better players than Jol when, in fact, he's simply done a far better job with a virtually identical squad.
Look closely at these squads if all fit (Jol's remains and current):
Tottenham 2007: GK: Robinson, LB: Assou-Ekotto, RB: Chimbonda, CB: Dawson, CB: King, LM: Bale, RM: Lennon, CM: Huddlestone, CM: Murphy, CF: Berbatov, CF: Keane.
Subs: GK: Cerny, DF: Kaboul, MF: Malbranque, CF: Defoe, CF: Mido
Tottenham 2012: GK: Friedel, LB: Assou-Ekotto, RB: Walker, CB: Dawson, CB: King, LM: Bale, RM: Lennon, CM: Parker, CM: Modric, CF: Adebayor, CF: van der Vart
Subs: GK: Cudicini, DF: Gallas, MF: Huddlestone, CF: Saha, CF: Defoe
Jol having nowhere near Redknapp's squad? Are you saying that with a straight face?
Sandro and Hudd's a toughie, give Hudd the edge with his form under Redknapp being miles better than the under-performing player seen under Jol. Done a bit more than Sandro in a Spurs shirt (hopefully he's the same after worrying injury lay-off).
Harry's a lovely bloke who's always respected Spurs anyway. Many of the anti-Harry statements are extremely bizarre, seriously, they make no sense at all.