My eyes see no glory
Wednesday, January 26, 2011 at 1:01PM guest blog by Chris King
My eyes are closed.
All I have is darkness. The black of darkness illuminated only by memories; of a time when peace existed in this land. It was a land where fan stood together with fellow fan, each with the same song in voice and heart. Each with a dream they held true.
My eyes are closed.
All I can hear is the noise of unrest; the incessant din of anger and hatred. We are in a battle with ourselves. No longer do we cherish those same dreams. No longer do we sing from the same hymn sheet. We are now heading in different directions, with tears and bitterness the only likely outcome.
My eyes are closed.
Open them he says. Open them and see the majesty of our plans; the glory those plans will bring. Our time here is up. The future is elsewhere. This land is dying. If we stay here, we will also die. He extends his hand. Come with me. Let me lead you to the Promised Land. We will set up home on yonder plains. This is our destiny.
My eyes are open.
But still I cannot see. I cannot see the truth. I cannot see the shared vision. I cannot see the future in exactly the same way others do. Oh eyes, poor misguided eyes. Give me the clarity this issue calls for. Give me the chance to soar high in to the sky – to look upon the dying soil, that very Promised Land and see. See for myself why this is the only option left to us.
My eyes are closed. Only my heart can see.
When it’s hard to be objective, it is always easier to be dramatic. That’s what a lot of people will be accusing Spurs fans of in the coming months; being overly dramatic. Yes we do like a moan and our board does like to install an element of drama in to our lives. But this drama is not ours. This drama need never have started in the first place.
If London hadn’t have won the Olympics, we would not be at this stage in our club’s history. If those who had organised the bid had nailed down a definite plan moving forward, from the point Boris stumbles on stage and drops the Olympic torch at the feet of the delegates from Rio, we would not be at this monumental precipice, which is forcing supporter against supporter; tearing the fabric of our beloved club apart.
I hear and read different views on a near hourly basis at the moment. ‘SAY NO TO STRATFORD’ reverberates around the stadium, outside on the streets, on WebPages and through a multitude of twitter timelines. Those who shout or type with venom and anger, do so with an unwavering passion. They know not what the answer to this mess is. All they know is that the final outcome has to rest with their club, our club, your club still residing in N17. To some this battle is just about a postcode. To others, it is all about the postcode.
Yet their actions don’t hold true with everyone. “It’s all right for them, they have a ticket… they can moan about leaving, but leaving would mean I may also get a ticket.” For the dissenters, history is unbending – we are Tottenham, we have to stay Tottenham. For the, shall we call them free thinkers or liberal minded supporter, a football club is more than just its history – it is its future as well. Mr Levy now claims we have no future in Tottenham. The NPD is dead in the water, as will the club be if we fail to secure the Stratford move.
Clearly this argument can be countered, and has been in this open letter from Martin Cloake.
The sermon appears to have changed and some, not all, are buying in to the new faith. It is a faith that appears to rely on the highest bidder taking some kind of control over the future of the club. A future existence that may rely as much on concert ticket sales as goals scored on the pitch.
My heart has been blinded.
A good friend of mine doesn’t want to move, yet he is far more objective on the subject than I am. His view is that the soil is no longer fertile. That the land is dying. Football is more than just 90 minutes of watching over paid, often underachieving stars. It is as much about what goes on between fellow supporters; before, during and after the game. We are all sold the view that the atmosphere is far better away from the Lane, but it’s surely made worse by the fact that our patch is being eroded, killing the pre- and post- game enjoyment associated with a trip to the match.
Think of the number of pubs that have come and gone, even since the start of the Premier League.
The Cockerel, The Corner Pin, The White Hart and Northumberland Arms. It’s like a roll call of fallen soldiers. All gone, replaced by expanded merchandise outlets or blocks of flats. A last game ritual for him was to finish the season off with a pub crawl along the High Road; a pint in 12 pubs. That last happened three years ago. Now there are simply not enough pubs. Instead they drink in Liverpool Street and dive in and out, spending just enough time in N17 to watch the match, before heading somewhere else for their fill of beer, stories and football songs.
If that picture mirrors your very own, then what difference does it make where you go to see the game? The pubs around Stratford will be no better, but at least – and this is Mr Levy’s argument, we’ll be able to leave our meeting points later with no fear of getting to the ground.
My heart is closed.
He may have a point, the mate that is – not Mr Levy – but I don’t buy it. I’m blinded by passion, by familiarity, by a need to remain true to our history. Clubs have moved in the past. We all know about Arsenal and nomadic teams like QPR, but that was in a time before I was born; before football was the beast it now is. I can’t think of any club that has proposed such a dramatic move (other than when Wimbledon threatened to go to Dublin), where they’ve adopted the almost American like franchise model. Putting pressure on their local council before moving to another, more welcoming venue – do they even want us in Stratford?
A lot will be said until a final decision has been made by The Olympic Park Legacy Company. Mr Levy will claim, in cloaked daggers aimed at the heart, that those who do not follow the exodus are putting the future of the club in jeopardy. He will wipe the slate clean, go back on every highfaluting statement he ever made about NPD and use us, the fans, as pawns in his battle against the local council and the decision makers.
Some of us will be made out as bad guys in this; accused of fighting an unnecessary fight. They will say that we will bring the honour and heritage of the club down with our protests. They will mock us – as they do Liverpool and Manchester United fans that stand up for their own causes. They are the very people who wear the same replica shirts, sing the same songs and once shared the same dreams. The club is split and it’s hard to see where the winners will come from in this argument.
But there will be winners. More fans will get access to tickets; more revenue will be made by the club if we fill a 60,000 stadium out. Bigger, better stars may be attracted to the club, bringing bigger riches with them. In 20 or 30 years time, a new legion of fans may wonder what the fuss was all about. Why we even cared that we were leaving our home, when you consider the better home that we may move to. It just doesn’t have to be in Stratford!
Yet all of that, the future, rests with a body of people charged with making a single decision that could throw the club in to turmoil either way. Move to Stratford and Mr Levy alienates a body of supporters that will turn every public outing in to a protest. Lose the Stratford bid and there is nothing. No NPD, no Plan B (Stratford) and apparently no Plan C - and definitely no answers as to why NPD is no longer viable?
This whole internal battle appears to hinge on one thing – are you for the future or stuck in the past? You can’t be for both. We all know we have to move. To move, not just to challenge for the top honours, but to potentially compete just to exist, as money strangles the life further out of the beautiful game. Our argument is not to stay in the current stadium; it is a simple request for clarity and honesty. Something we feel our loyalty as fans at least deserves. Misguided? Very much so!
The battle lines have been drawn – are you with us or are you against us? Say no to Stratford.
Say no to Stratford – but then, do we really have a say?
Chris King was a regular on the old Shelf and held a season ticket in the Park Lane Upper. He now lives in Leeds, where he spends most Saturdays trying to teach his 20 month old daughter the words to Spurs’ songs.
Reader Comments (180)
Outstanding food for thought. Enjoyed that.
No closer to deciding whether to support the move or not. I'll have to keep reading on.
"The Cockerel, The Corner Pin, The White Hart and Northumberland Arms. It’s like a roll call of fallen soldiers"
That really hit a nerve.
I'm having my heart strings pulled all over the place. I keep saying to myself I wont read another pro or anti or sit on fence article about the move and just work through it in due course whilst I concentrate on the actual football but I keep refreshing my feeds and checking my subscriptions and I keep coming back for more.
There is something about all this that I can't put into words other than perhaps summing it up by saying 'it dont feel right'.
It just doesn't feel right to move.
Ask me again tomorrow, will have probably changed my mind again.
Very well written piece. However, I still want us to take the opportunity and move.
"More fans will get access to tickets; more revenue will be made by the club if we fill a 60,000 stadium out. Bigger, better stars may be attracted to the club, bringing bigger riches with them" - dangerous to assume that just because we move into a 60,000 seater then all the glory will rain down on us. It's hardly guaranteed. There might be a new monopoly of 'Top 4' and if we're not part of it, then what? And how do you fill a 60k stadium week in week out? 52k - easily I'd expect, most games.
Stratford will make us look good on paper but if it goes to shit on the pitch it could be a disaster.
Brilliant Article, my thoughts are that the Olympic stadium is a good prosepct..more revenue, more fans and better Football players.
but we are a North London Football Club...so Mr Levy lets stay there. Picketts lock down the round might be a good option.
As for White hart lane I have been going there for the lat 20 years...and nothing has changed...the transport links have not been improved at all...and can you imagine 60,000 fans going to the lane...that spells big trouble.
Unfortunately football has become a massive business. Without a 55000 - 60000 seater stadium we will never be a top club. It is sad but true.
northumberland arms was a useless pub took about a year to get served. but yes, everything else agreed. I only wish the NDP could just happen, everyone would be behind it, we'd have an amazing stadium in our home. it deeply saddens me to think we won't be going to white hart lane anymore. Might be different when we actually go, but i just cant imagine having that same special feeling of arriving at the lane that i still get even after 12 years of owning a season ticket.
less than 1% local supporters; says it all.
The area has been in terminal decline for 30 years, the 'local's' and their politicians have just accepted it.
Let's just get out of there as fast as we can.
The current scheme is dead and buried.
If we can get the Olympic stadium site I'd be over the moon, as then and only then we'd be able to look to the future knowing that sometime during my lifetime we'll be able to complete amongst the elite once again.
If we lose and we stay were we are, then all we can look forward to is a slow but certain decline, which is just a continuation of where we were in the 90's.
The best thing for the people of Tottenham would be for the whole site to be redeveloped as affordable housing, a retail park and a small industry starter park, almost certainly it would create more permanent jobs and leave a better legacy than building a new stadium there.
As for the pubs closing if we move, big deal, pubs in case you haven't notice have been closing for years as the locals are now mainly wave after wave of immigrants who aren't into drinking.
If we lose some 'local' supporters then that is probably a price worth paying. 1%....1%!!!!
just to add something about the transport, before the taylor report and all that you'd get 50,000 odd piling into the stadium then - how did they all manage to get to the match?
Why couldn't they operate park and ride system around places like tottenham hale, seven sisters and edmonton green? would stop loads of cars having to pile through the high st and would disperse the crowds. Or maybe they could build a DLR style train system around the stadium? there must be some alternative!!
When I was 11, I fell in love with Tottenham Hotspur, watching them at White Hart Lane.
I realise the club has to move to a bigger stadium to be able progress and compete with the big boys, no matter what. But other teams have moved stadium and haven't upped sticks in such a big way. Levy's spin is that it is a move of a mere '5 miles'. There are two things wrong with this:
a) The distance as the crow flies is about 9 miles. The distance by car can be as long as 12 miles!
b) This is London. Seemingly smaller distances are much more pronounced by how densely populated the area is and how tightly squeezed the different boroughs are.
Levy's letter to me gave us a view out of a blue - that the NDP wasn't viable. He seemingly jumped from all the positive messages and colourful literature (clearly a stock market exercise, now I think of it) to stating everything that was wrong with the NDP - an exercise in spin, pure and simple. Martin Cloake's open letter was a polite retort of saying to Levy - 'Why have you all of a sudden moved the goalposts, without warning?'.
Sadly, I don't think what Levy is pursuing is wrong - he is just yet another example of the business that football has become. If you don't attempt to keep up you'll flounder and die. The problem is, (and I don't know what the answer is) that there is no sensitivity to the fans' wants and needs. The history, the traditions, the culture, the songs - they need to be preserved... and wherever we move - the club needs to do it's utmost to ensure this, as the move itself is going to be traumatic enough.
For me, my views may change as I get used to the idea - but I feel that I may move on. A location move will be hard enough on me - but a name change and area change is just not worth the season ticket price I pay (which I assume will rise, when we move to the new stadium).
I do wonder now, if fans of Woolwich Arsenal felt this way just before their big move from the South East to the North. I also have read the bitterness of Wimbledon fans towards the MK Dons 'franchise' and I wonder if there will be a mass exodus of fans (obviously to be immediately replaced by new fans) and a 'phoenix club' will rise.
It makes me think of another thing - there are 35,000 fans on the season ticket waiting list. How many of these are geniune leads (in that, if offered a seat, would they take it or pass due to financial or other restrictions). Also, how many of these fans are on the waiting list because they associate themselves and their support with Tottenham the club, it's history, it's location and not because we're currently in the Champions League and playing attractive football.
Well written and good points on there, with the final line the truest of them all.
I just hope whatever happens that it does not tear the club's current fan base apart. From my own point of view I couldn't imagine not supporting Spurs. So wherever we go I will follow, not blindly, but what choice do I really have?
I could watch my local team and sing that annoying song wherever I go I suppose.
i dont think they have the right to push and pull our hearts all over the place.
im honestly in bits about the whole thing. if we move, football is at fault, the pissing money into arseholes pockets, the sky corporate crew, the banking sector resident in a stand built especially for them in the new stadium, football is dying, football is to blame for this shit.
but if we stay, our football, our dreams of glory gather dust until we end up like Burnley, Wolves, teams once so massive they now sag under the weight of their own proud histories.
we have a responsiblity to keep our end up, to not let this happen. and thats why this is so important, and why Levy can go fuck himself if he wants to keep emotion out of it.
fucking mess
Let's turn our back on Tottenham and move to Stratford, and in 40 years time, let's turn our back on Stratford and move to perhaps the USA.
Suddenly everyone agrees Tottenham is a shit hole when we've known all our lives but it's where our club was born and it's where our club has been raised. Le'ts move out quick step and let it swallow itself up.
True colours, bleeding dirty white.
Thanks for that... A great piece.
Funny you mention Wimbledon- I remember there were thousands of Dubliners who thought it would be a great idea- seeing top clubs playing here every second week. Never mind the fact that it would have destroyed what little domestic leagues we have.
People talk of community- but are spurs community based, or based in a community? I had a massive argument with a Arsenal fan over this, when he said that Arsenal were a community based team.
The challenge is to compete at the highest level every season. Yes we are a community club- our history proves this- but the gut wrenching fact is that to succeed at the highest level every club has to expand at some stage. How can we possibly maintain our current progress otherwise? Spurs are being restricted by their own sense of community boundaries. We either stay local, and be a middle sized club, or build and go global.
cracking work, really struck a chord, especially with the old haunts that we too quickly forget. (is there something in that !!??)
like many of us I really don't know how i feel, i can certainly see a logical argument for moving and why the hell should we do the governments work for them (red or blue) BUT.....
this is about passion, emotion and my heart as well and not just my heart but the White Hart of the Lane. What i do know is this.....i want to be able to look a gooner in the eye and having bemoaned them, even if it is tongue in cheek these days for being Woolwich pikeys i am not sure if i will ever be able to do that if we give up our home. And i don't say this as a vitriolic scum hating fan, i say this as a man who can appreciate their football and their club but still.......this feels like a step too far.......what would Uncle Bill do i wonder, how would he feel?
Very balanced piece this.
Spooky, good work in not always coming at this subject with a crazed stare and the bleeding decapitated head of Chirpy in your hand by allowing others to share their thoughts.
Perhaps, too much to ask for a pro-Stratford article? If someone is willing.
P.S. The statistic about local supporters means nothing.
My example:
I was born in London. 3 months later, I moved to Dubai and lived there for 18 years.
I came to the UK for university and was in Bristol for 4 years, then Reading for 3 years, then I finally had a job that paid enough money to move into London and buy a season ticket. Since then I never looked back. I now currently live in deepest, darkest Essex. So Stratford would actually be GOOD for me, travel wise. But it doesn't strike any sort of practical cord with me.
I have no links or ties to the local area other than the team. That said I have trudged up and down Tottenham High Road and frequented many of the local pubs with friends / fellow supporters for as long as I remember. Haringey / Tottenham is a sh*t hole, yes. But you know what? It's OUR sh*t hole.
How many Utd fans live in Manchester?
Sorry, couldn't help it.
What is also bugging me is the thought of people thinking that most Spurs fans want to move there.
Only 1/4 of fans support the move to Stratford.
People usually are narrow-minded and don't seem to be able to distinguish fans who don't control the club from a board of moneyhungry, morally-bankrupt directors/owners who don't care about anything else but themselves and money:
I thought this club was meant to be different from Manchester City...???
I thought this club were supposed to help young children in the Haringey area through the foundation.
Foresaking that is disgusting. I ask that wherever we move, Levy continues to at least donate funds to Haringey so that the work done by the foundation can continue. Otherwise, the are will get worse.
Good article. It really annoys me that Levy is now talking about Stratford as the only viable option for the club. i.e It's the Olympic stadium or nothing. And add to that that that if we don't move we are more or less doomed to extinction. Did he suddenly have some sort of blinding vision a few months ago about what was a backup option to regenerating the Lane (now dismissively tallked about as the 'North London Development' as if it's got nothing to do with the club) if planning permission didn't go through.
So the years and millions spent planning for our new stadium in Tottenham was not viable all along? Don't believe it. Yes maybe Stratford would be cheaper, but not justifiable on other the counts. Do we need Startford, and only Stratford to survive and compete? Don't believe it. We're got outselves into a competive position now with our existing gates, and while the need to expand is clear to all I don't agree that there is only one solution.
Off topic but MOnkey paws Keyes in live on Talk sport right now. Listen to him squirm dont miss the opportunity he is being grilled!! lol]
http://www.talksport.co.uk/radio/how-to-listen
Top article by the way really hits home.
COYS
Exactly right DBs Knees.
Tottenham is a khazi, but it's OUR khazi.
Out of interest, if the move was to Enfield, would there be this level of resistance to it?
I'm not saying that I'm for Stratford (I fell in love with the NDP plans), but I am wondering how much of this is because it is a bit further East rather than North?
Currently I can and do walk to WHL, so any kind of a move is a pain for me, but if we do move, at least I will be able to get a season ticket.
I just don't fancy East London. and that's reason enough for me not to want the move to go ahead. We're a NL club, we're a Tottenham club, the only Tottenham club. I don't need to say anything more.
NN
Back in the day, 50/60,000 of us used to go to the Lane every home game. Parking was chaos, we had to get into the ground at 1.00 for a 3.00 kick off. The ground was packed, (standing days), if you were under 6 feet, you couldn't see a third of the pitch and forget going to the toilet.....you couldn't sit down on the concrete at half time for the rivers of piss rolling down the stands and getting out was even worse. We used to leave the ground at 4.50 and get home at 6.30, 15 miles away. Ah the good old days!!!!
We are proud to be Spurs, Yiddos, Park Lane boys, but we age, we can't go all the time, commitments, family, moving, work, life!! And a new generation come along...who's the greatest player you ever saw, Ginola, Hoddle, Geaves, Mackay, White, back we go as we get older. The one thing that remains, is that we are Spurs.
I don't like the idea of leaving the Lane, for me, 48 years of matches and memories, but times change. Evolution not revolution. Wherever we end up, they will still be The Spurs as I will be. THEY can't take that away.
Well written Spooks.
But this is about this year and yesteryear. They're going to demolish your memories? I do sense that the more you write then the more you favour remaining. There will be a plan C, there has to be. If A or B does not work then something somewhere will happen. Beware though, it could actually be worse.
I take it there has been no reply to the open letter?
In the meantime make way for the Phil, Nikoo and Sandro show.....coming to a pitch near you soon.
Your eyes are closed.
Your fingers are in your ears.
You are shouting la-la-la-la-la at the top of your voice.
Because of this you are having delusions. "Say No to Stratford" reverberating around the stadium"? Which stadium would that be? Certainly not White Hart Lane.
The opinions on the move are clearly mixed. Those with negativity and destruction on their minds are far more vocal than those who prefer positivity, as is usual in these matters.
But the negative forces are just that. How can we disrupt this? How can we cause discomfort and trouble? Can we not allow the Club to leave? Can we stop the Club using its full name? Can we all come out of the pub at the same time and block the road for a few minutes? And the most pathetic of all, can we boycott a game or two? Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face!
The issues are becoming more stark.
Which do you care about more - Tottenham Hotspur or Tottenham High Road?
Do you want Tottenham Hotspur to be successful and financially stable or do you want Tottenham Hotspur to be mediocre in a cramped and ever more dilapidated stadium because the funds can't be generated to improve it?
Do you want to see the likes of Bale, Modric and Van der Vaart in a Spurs shirt, or playing for the opposition, assuming we can still limp into qualification for the competitions they play in?
Do you want to be limited to impotent shouts of "Put your habd in your pocket, Levy", when the Club inevtably sinks back into the slough of despond that was the Sugar era?
If you want pre-and post-match food, drink and social gathering, and, as you admit, the ever more run down area around the ground is less and less likely to provide that, wouldn't it be a good idea to have a home where these are available, and wouldn't it be better to start thinking about what you would want in the new stadium and around it, rather than throwing your dolly out of the pram. This last comment was actually made by Comrade Lammy about the Club., when they mentioned the reality of the need to move to an economically viable stadium. I'd talk about pots and kettles, but that would no doubt lead to me being accused of racism.
If you really want what is best for Tottenham Hotspur, then you really have to start opening your eyes and looking beyond the end of your nose. Unless you really think that what is best for Tottenham is Sugar-style mediocrity.
You state that the viability argument was countered by Mr Colake's open letter. It wasn't countered at all. Mr Cloake asked some questions, nothing more.
If you really think that the Club can afford a £450 million (and probably rising) development cost, then I'd be very interested to know how on earth you think this is possible, whatever you may think of Mr Levy's PR statements in the past.
You really should have gone to Specsavers.
'You are shouting la-la-la-la-la at the top of your voice'
Is what you appear to be doing John. Seduced by the dark said you have.
John White - well written. I don't necessarily agree and am getting splinters from this fence, but I applaud someone who also states their views in such a way. I think you and Spooks could well be the same person though.
I apologise to Chris King. I had not realised it had been written by someone else.
Bloom where u are planted, dnt spend ur life wishing u wasnt where u are, do something with where ur at
SINGER sums it up nicely for me. Tottenham Hotspur is not about the board, the players or the area. The only constant is the fans and true fans will support THFC be it at WHL or in Stratford.
Getting in and out of WHL is relatively easy if you're not a fucking buffoon.
Dear John White
I care about Tottenham Hotspur football club. No matter what overblown drama I may write, I will still drag myself down from Leeds to watch the team where ever we end up. It's an experience I want to share (read force upon) my little girl. By the time she's of an age, we will need a new stadium for me to get a sniff of two tickets - but that's by the by.
You suggest I need to look beyond the end of my nose - but at what? What is it that I am looking at? You suggest we will lose our players, you suggest we can't afford to build a new stadium, that Tottenham is an ever more run down area - but wasn't that all resolved in the original NPD plans. Weren't we the knights, in our lilywhite armour that would bring cleanliness, jobs, entertainment, a brighter new beginning? Wasn't the reason for the move to keep the players in a stadium that we've spent millions costing?
We, those with negativity and destruction in our minds, are always wrong - and we will no doubt be to blame if the team has a slump in form - but I still can't see what I should be looking at? The only thing I may destroy is the odd nail with my keyboard warrioresque take on this every developing saga.
Should I be looking at the fact that the club were full on with the original plans, spent more money tweaking them and have now just simply glossed over that. Erased any of the unveiling ceremonies and press releases and instead have gone all in with a concert promoter to take over a stadium that, not only do the locals and the wider sporting world want us nowhere near, but a proportion of our fans base reject as well?
The only thing I want to see, is the club telling the fans what they want to know - rather than glossing over what they think they need to know. A lot of clubs move to new stadiums but, in the main, there's always been a sense that their fans have been involved in the experience. Arsenal had a few problems, they resolved them and moved on. We've had three waves now of stadium move ideas and I don't seem to be any clearer in to understanding what has changed so dramatically - if it is simply a cost saving exercise then let's run along to Wembley (still technically North London - with three dedicated tube lines, the capacity we need and access routes throughout the world for our no doubt global following that will be born from the move) and save the FA a lot of hassle by reducing their overdrafts.
The reason I wrote the original piece, and cheers to all those blinkered people like me who found something in there to enjoy, was because I can't see the future. No one can - unless of course they have insider info as to how the panel will proceed with their decision. We are a club, with a stadium not fit for our needs, with two stadium plans we might as well cut up and use for toilet paper if the Stratford decision goes against us.
It's a passionate, emotive subject - and the last thing we need is to argue with each other internally - but due to the lack of clarity on any of the options, that is all I feel we are going to do.
Cheers
Chris
John White (PR) - enough said.
Thank you John White just excellent.
Nice work Chris. Both times.
Great article Chris. So where do we go from here as Spurs fans? Do we keep chucking shit at each other, it's counter-productive all this who's the bestest and biggest fan bollocks... who's supported Spurs for the longest, who lives in Tottenham and who lives in the Arctic Circle, who's got a season ticket and who hasn't, does any one fan have a higher authority on the subject than another?
The argument that you bring to the table Chris is spot on, we're all Spurs fans and there's no right or wrong side of the fence as both have pro's and both have cons, there would no doubt be pro's and cons if we had a Plan C... in fighting amongst the ranks does nothing but give the initiative to the opponents whether that's on the field or off it.
Sorry for cutting and pasting from previous article but the message echoes here too... "clarity and honesty"? Wouldn't that be nice:
I wouldn't be expecting a response from Levy any time soon. As Mr Cloake stated there is the issue of "not showing your cards" and rightly or wrongly we will remain in the dark until at the very least a decision by OPLC has been made. There is unfortunately no point in Levy answering those questions if it doesn't help his immediate or long term cause, whatever they may be? "Being able to convince people your position has substance" rings very true however at this moment in time the only people he needs to convince are the members of the OPLC decision making committee, unfortunately as fans we are pretty low down on that pecking order of people who need to know... it's sad but true!
You might find that certain individuals such as Lord Coe, Sanderson, IOC etc will go a little quiet as they ultimately have no direct influence on the decision and what's more have no visibility of the actual bids so therefore cannot give an educated or viable opinion on the matters of legacy etc.
On that note, their comments are proving to be a little contradicting… it's been made clear by many parties in the Government, OPLC, IOC, THFC, even at the LB of Newham and Wet Spam (and Coe, thanks Hocks) that an Olympic legacy of a track on the OS is not a must have so therefore that argument is in effect null and void. They'd probably prefer it to be there but in the realms of reality, this concept is simply fraught with risk in the medium to long term. Yes the Porn Barons have stated they’d give personal guarantees, but where’s the guarantee that they’ll still be at the Spammers in 5 years time?
So, when the decision is made, shall we expect some answers then? Well maybe, even then any answers provided by Levy to the questions posed will be dictated by the decision that has been made by the OPLC. Honesty will be solely subjective and driven purely to benefit Levy and THFC in achieving their ultimate goal, whatever that goal will be at that specific time…
Full and complete transparency? It's a contradiction in terms.
In the meantime, as fans we're far better off focussing on what we do best: supporting our great club.
are said pubs closed because of lack of vitality in the area or poor management? seems to me that you could do enough business every other saturday to support you through the weekdays. Or only open on weekends...
The reality is that 36k tickets ain't enough to be a big club in the Premiership. You'll stay almost forever in mediocrity. If you want to be a big club you need a big stadium (for me at least 65k). If you choose to became a big club then you start searching if you can build such a new stadium inside the area where you've been last decades and who is going to finance it. If there isn't any proper place in your current area or there is nobody who can finance it what do you do? You have two choices: to stay in current place and become a mediocre historic club (although after a few decades nobody will remember a club who had won the championship 70 years ago) or start thinking to move to another place and find someone to finance the move. Finding the right or the only possible place and those who can finance the move are questions and dilemmas that have to be answered by the supporters and by those who are responsible for the finances of the club.
Talking about the supporters I think that nowadays you can divide the supporters in three main groups:
a) those who are season ticket holders and follow the club in away games (independently of where they are living),
b) those who mainly live in North London and
c) those who live in Greater London, the rest of Great Britain and in hundred other countries all over the world.
Can any of these 3 groups claim that it has more rights on the club?
Can those who have less or more ambitions about the club claim that their opinion carries more weight?
...been going to WHL since 1961...yes, 1961, the year of the double, and its been pretty much downhill ever since! The old stadium was dreadful (even if I miss the standing), the currently partially re-built one is barely acceptable, still loads of restricted views, poor capacity, horrible WCs and catering, and and, and, and. But while my family is from the area, I've not lived there ever! Why would you, if you had a choice? If I'm overseas, I fly over a couple times a season. if Im' living in UK, I travel across town (yep, from SW London). So if we get Stratford and have a future it's fine by me, better transport links, proper stadium...a future! Haringay CCl can take a jump, they've been useless, Tottenham High Road needs to be totally bulldozed, it's so bad even pre-match is no fun, so forget the sentimental stuff, it should be the CLUB we care about, not the high road.
Having said that, in an ideal world the council would do more, WHL regeneration would be financially feasible, and we would stay...but it's not an ideal world.
"The pubs around Stratford will be no better"
As a Spurs-supporting Stratford resident, I'd disagree with that. I'll take King Eddie's over The Olive Branch any day of the week.
Sorry Aaron, that was a generalisation - what i meant was that with X% of a full capacity crowd scrambling around looking for a pint - we will still be struggling to get served, sill be hanging out in rain soaked beer gardens etc.
how can any spurs fan with the clubs best interest in their heart want us to stay where we are?? You say you dont know why the NDP isnt viable? I can give you £200 million reasons why. The transport links will NOT be improved. So we will have a great new stadium that nobody can get too. We all know what WHL is like and thats with 36k on the streets, imagine double that and the whole place comes to a halt. You give stats to say the majority want to stay. I disgaree. The majority of people who vote want to stay, that isnt the same thing. Most spurs fans dont live in tottenham and like me we fear putting our names to these polls for the branding of traitor that comes from the rabid mouths of those who want us to stay. WHL will be no more either way and im not too sure many of you realise that. If we stay we will never be more than we are now, a 5th place team that will on occasion get a 4th every 5 years. That the best we can hope for. Realistically we'll lose our stars and we will yo-yo between 4th and 7th from now on, but at least we remain in Haringey !! hooray, everythings ok then. Or we move a few miles and grow into a consitant top 4 club with all the promise that this will bring. To me its a no-brainer and you dinosaurs that diagree need to wake up to it.
Aaron, I guess when the West Ham boys wake up at 4am in the morning to attack our pubs they wont need to make the long trek to N17, although trashing pubs in their own patch whilst we play football nearby would make a cracking plot for the next Green Street movie.
No matter how many articles get written Pro Stratford supporters seem to always take what levy has told us for granted with no fight or spirit to have questions answered abotu why NDP is not viable any more.
If it was a choice between the two - what would you select?
The myth that nobody can get to WHL because of the transport links is starting to get very boring.
Very emotive, especially the demise of the watering holes. At the risk of being labelled a dinosaur the memories of events of the past do have a place in the heart for those who were there. The 80s was my first taste of the Lane, The night we beat City at Wembley and the party in the High Road, winning Uefa Cup on pens, watching Hoddle take the piss out of Liverpool when they were top dogs, even stopping the Arse trying to storm the Bull after a New Years day game at their place. I know we cannot live in the past but we should not just accept that there is no alternative to moving away and consigning our heritage to the dustbin. Every body was happy with the NPD, now look what’s happening we are tearing ourselves apart and our rivals are pissing their pants. Here is a plea to Mr Levy, the Board and Haringey Council, stop the Willy waving contest and revisit the NPD for everyone’s sake, this is our Wimbledon moment and looked what happened to them.