My eyes see no glory
Wednesday, January 26, 2011 at 1:01PM guest blog by Chris King
My eyes are closed.
All I have is darkness. The black of darkness illuminated only by memories; of a time when peace existed in this land. It was a land where fan stood together with fellow fan, each with the same song in voice and heart. Each with a dream they held true.
My eyes are closed.
All I can hear is the noise of unrest; the incessant din of anger and hatred. We are in a battle with ourselves. No longer do we cherish those same dreams. No longer do we sing from the same hymn sheet. We are now heading in different directions, with tears and bitterness the only likely outcome.
My eyes are closed.
Open them he says. Open them and see the majesty of our plans; the glory those plans will bring. Our time here is up. The future is elsewhere. This land is dying. If we stay here, we will also die. He extends his hand. Come with me. Let me lead you to the Promised Land. We will set up home on yonder plains. This is our destiny.
My eyes are open.
But still I cannot see. I cannot see the truth. I cannot see the shared vision. I cannot see the future in exactly the same way others do. Oh eyes, poor misguided eyes. Give me the clarity this issue calls for. Give me the chance to soar high in to the sky – to look upon the dying soil, that very Promised Land and see. See for myself why this is the only option left to us.
My eyes are closed. Only my heart can see.
When it’s hard to be objective, it is always easier to be dramatic. That’s what a lot of people will be accusing Spurs fans of in the coming months; being overly dramatic. Yes we do like a moan and our board does like to install an element of drama in to our lives. But this drama is not ours. This drama need never have started in the first place.
If London hadn’t have won the Olympics, we would not be at this stage in our club’s history. If those who had organised the bid had nailed down a definite plan moving forward, from the point Boris stumbles on stage and drops the Olympic torch at the feet of the delegates from Rio, we would not be at this monumental precipice, which is forcing supporter against supporter; tearing the fabric of our beloved club apart.
I hear and read different views on a near hourly basis at the moment. ‘SAY NO TO STRATFORD’ reverberates around the stadium, outside on the streets, on WebPages and through a multitude of twitter timelines. Those who shout or type with venom and anger, do so with an unwavering passion. They know not what the answer to this mess is. All they know is that the final outcome has to rest with their club, our club, your club still residing in N17. To some this battle is just about a postcode. To others, it is all about the postcode.
Yet their actions don’t hold true with everyone. “It’s all right for them, they have a ticket… they can moan about leaving, but leaving would mean I may also get a ticket.” For the dissenters, history is unbending – we are Tottenham, we have to stay Tottenham. For the, shall we call them free thinkers or liberal minded supporter, a football club is more than just its history – it is its future as well. Mr Levy now claims we have no future in Tottenham. The NPD is dead in the water, as will the club be if we fail to secure the Stratford move.
Clearly this argument can be countered, and has been in this open letter from Martin Cloake.
The sermon appears to have changed and some, not all, are buying in to the new faith. It is a faith that appears to rely on the highest bidder taking some kind of control over the future of the club. A future existence that may rely as much on concert ticket sales as goals scored on the pitch.
My heart has been blinded.
A good friend of mine doesn’t want to move, yet he is far more objective on the subject than I am. His view is that the soil is no longer fertile. That the land is dying. Football is more than just 90 minutes of watching over paid, often underachieving stars. It is as much about what goes on between fellow supporters; before, during and after the game. We are all sold the view that the atmosphere is far better away from the Lane, but it’s surely made worse by the fact that our patch is being eroded, killing the pre- and post- game enjoyment associated with a trip to the match.
Think of the number of pubs that have come and gone, even since the start of the Premier League.
The Cockerel, The Corner Pin, The White Hart and Northumberland Arms. It’s like a roll call of fallen soldiers. All gone, replaced by expanded merchandise outlets or blocks of flats. A last game ritual for him was to finish the season off with a pub crawl along the High Road; a pint in 12 pubs. That last happened three years ago. Now there are simply not enough pubs. Instead they drink in Liverpool Street and dive in and out, spending just enough time in N17 to watch the match, before heading somewhere else for their fill of beer, stories and football songs.
If that picture mirrors your very own, then what difference does it make where you go to see the game? The pubs around Stratford will be no better, but at least – and this is Mr Levy’s argument, we’ll be able to leave our meeting points later with no fear of getting to the ground.
My heart is closed.
He may have a point, the mate that is – not Mr Levy – but I don’t buy it. I’m blinded by passion, by familiarity, by a need to remain true to our history. Clubs have moved in the past. We all know about Arsenal and nomadic teams like QPR, but that was in a time before I was born; before football was the beast it now is. I can’t think of any club that has proposed such a dramatic move (other than when Wimbledon threatened to go to Dublin), where they’ve adopted the almost American like franchise model. Putting pressure on their local council before moving to another, more welcoming venue – do they even want us in Stratford?
A lot will be said until a final decision has been made by The Olympic Park Legacy Company. Mr Levy will claim, in cloaked daggers aimed at the heart, that those who do not follow the exodus are putting the future of the club in jeopardy. He will wipe the slate clean, go back on every highfaluting statement he ever made about NPD and use us, the fans, as pawns in his battle against the local council and the decision makers.
Some of us will be made out as bad guys in this; accused of fighting an unnecessary fight. They will say that we will bring the honour and heritage of the club down with our protests. They will mock us – as they do Liverpool and Manchester United fans that stand up for their own causes. They are the very people who wear the same replica shirts, sing the same songs and once shared the same dreams. The club is split and it’s hard to see where the winners will come from in this argument.
But there will be winners. More fans will get access to tickets; more revenue will be made by the club if we fill a 60,000 stadium out. Bigger, better stars may be attracted to the club, bringing bigger riches with them. In 20 or 30 years time, a new legion of fans may wonder what the fuss was all about. Why we even cared that we were leaving our home, when you consider the better home that we may move to. It just doesn’t have to be in Stratford!
Yet all of that, the future, rests with a body of people charged with making a single decision that could throw the club in to turmoil either way. Move to Stratford and Mr Levy alienates a body of supporters that will turn every public outing in to a protest. Lose the Stratford bid and there is nothing. No NPD, no Plan B (Stratford) and apparently no Plan C - and definitely no answers as to why NPD is no longer viable?
This whole internal battle appears to hinge on one thing – are you for the future or stuck in the past? You can’t be for both. We all know we have to move. To move, not just to challenge for the top honours, but to potentially compete just to exist, as money strangles the life further out of the beautiful game. Our argument is not to stay in the current stadium; it is a simple request for clarity and honesty. Something we feel our loyalty as fans at least deserves. Misguided? Very much so!
The battle lines have been drawn – are you with us or are you against us? Say no to Stratford.
Say no to Stratford – but then, do we really have a say?
Chris King was a regular on the old Shelf and held a season ticket in the Park Lane Upper. He now lives in Leeds, where he spends most Saturdays trying to teach his 20 month old daughter the words to Spurs’ songs.
Reader Comments (180)
like the late bernard matthews turkeys, that piece was bootiful, very moving...like us.
We are an emotional lot we are.
Bill P - you're a dinosaur !
Hopefully Stratford gets turned down and then we can discuss the real issues, which are that sadly, the existing site is not fit for purpose but that it is the general wish of the fans to remain in Tottenham or at least a North London postcode to develop the ground to it's full capacity... Preferably with the co-operation of the council and TFL.
By not fit for purpose, I mean that the planning permission cap of 52,000 means that we would probably outgrow that capacity within a fairly short time and that to take on such a huge amount of debt for effectively a short-term stadium would not be feasible (This has been the argument against NDP by most)
Hopefully, while the club were developing the NDP, they investigated several other sites in and around the area and would would pretty quickly be able to identify, cost and draw up plans for the 60,000 proposed venue in an area such as Bruce Grove, Tottenham Hale or Edmonton.
Again, hopefully, this 'Fresh start' would enable us all to unite behind the project (Councillors included) because as it stands at present, the way the project has been developed has been one of the most mismanaged passages in the clubs long history & frankly a PR blunder of the highest order.
Ive read the open letter, you honestly expect daniel levy to provide sensitive financial information to some blogger
, dream on. You dont own the club your view is as a fan and if you dont want to support spurs then cler off and support someone else. As yyou may guess I hope we do move I may get season ticket then. I'll support spurs whenever wherever. if you cant do the same then maybe its time to call time on your blog.
Rob,
You miss the point. We all want to move.
Cheers
"Glory, Glory Stratford Hotspur"
"Stratford, Stratford 'til I die"
"We are the Stratford, the Super Stratford"
"We love you Stratford, we do, We love you Stratford, we do, We love you Stratford, we do, Oh, Stratford we love you"
"In the cup for Stratford Spurs"
It makes me cringe.
I'm just so tired of all this now. Newsnow rumors of Benzema. Ah fuck it, I'm so bored.
everyones entitled to their own view, mine is that we should move to a bigger stadium so I and 30,000 others can watch the game. I dont care where that stadium is, If there are options available then its up to the club to offer them. From what I've heard a larger stadium is no longer viable at White heart lane, I accept that. Others may hold a different view, however if you arent financing the project then your entitlement to scrutanise the accounts is a little optamistic.
Hopefully 2 years from now we will be in a stste of the art stadium watching champions league football, which we deserve, wondering what all the fuss was about.
We will all look back at white heart lane with fond memorys, lets make some new ones.
No no, we drop the place name, we'll be 'The Spurs'. Which I quite like the look of.
I've decided I do want a new 60,000 seater. Stratford wouldn't be my preffered choice, but if its there, then so be it. I cant give up on Spurs, it's in the blood. If you went in a time machine from the 60's and looked at THFC now you'd be shocked and stunned and probably deeply upset about the whole thing. Levy is not being open or honest with the fans, he's never open or honest about anything with anyone business wise from what I can see. For all we know this could still be Levy playing serious hardball with Haringey.
Worse case scenario: dumped in Stratford, sold off to the highest bidder, or perhaps stagnation at WHL and more mid table mediocrity. I really dont see Modric Bale and VDV staying if we're not CL. No way. My life is mediocre. I want Spurs to succeed. I want CL every year. I want to see them win the league. I also want to see England win the WC before I pop it. With an English manager, but if its not an English manager I'll take that.
Also, someone's mentioned the Stratford site is 12 miles as the crow flies. Nonsense. I cycle through from Cheshunt to Stratford every day right past the gates to WHL. Its about 4 or 5 miles.
"Hopefully 2 years from now we will be in a stste of the art stadium watching champions league football, which we deserve, wondering what all the fuss was about."
Rob - NPD would not have been ready till 2013 - it is being argued that Stratford's rebuild will take until at least the 2015/16 season.
I don't necessarily get the argument about getting to see the game - I'm a member, no longer a season ticket holder, and there's only the odd game where i struggle to get a ticket through the membership.
That's part of the problem here. People are willing to accept NDP is not viable without evidence but are equally willing to be seduced by Stratford even though we know next to nothing and if it takes longer to build then NDP we might find ourselves in mid-table regardless based on the fact that we'll lose players between now and 2016.
I think the Pros and the Antis are both sitting in the dark. One side refuses to accept there is only one option, the other only wants to care about the one option.
quoted: Im just so tired of all this now. Newsnow rumors of Benzema. Ah fuck it, I'm so bored.
Sid Lowe says no.
Rob out of interest where were you five years ago, when there was no waiting list for season tickets? You say you would support the club anywhere, but you didn't think it important enough 5 years ago? Perhaps you have never fancied supporting a north London club. As you are so desperate to support an east London club, perhaps you can't start early, there is already a club in Newham after all, they are called West Ham. You will be able to get a ticket there quite easily.
That's actually quite brilliant Robby.
Welcome to TV Burp.
I like the Anti-Stratford brigade with their history, desire to stay in North London, and the wish to see the club stay near to its spiritual home.
However, I also like the Pro-Stratford brigade with their shiny new stadium, easy transport links, and money in the bank to compete at the very top.
But which one is better? There's only way to find out....FIGHT!!!!!!
Yeah, but who's gonna ref?
Sian Massey
CAN ANY OF YOU PR FOR TOTTENHAM ESPICIALLY IM WHO CALLS HIMSELF JOHN WHITE PLEASE EXPLAIN
2OOM INSTEAD OF 450M CAME TO PASS LET ME GET THIS STRAIGHT DANIEL LEVY IS SAYING AROUND 250M
EXTRA BEING SPENT ON WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 50M EXTRA FROM THOSE DICKS AT THE COUNCIL AND ENGLISH HERITAGE SO 200M ON SUBSTRUCTRE/DRAINGE ETC DO ME A FAVOUR WHATS THE REST BEING SPENT 50M AT MOST TO DO THE SUB STRUCTURE NO MORE DONT NEED HOTEL/SUPERMARKET UNLESS THEY BECOME DEEMED AS MONEY MAKERS
SOMEBODY SUGGESTED FOR SOME PARK AND RIDE WHY NOT
PLEASE EXPLAIN THE 200M EXTRA ONE OF U SO CALLED STRATFORD ITES
PARKING UNLESS YOU A COMPLETE IDIOT OR HARDLY GO YOU CAN GET OUT OF TOTTENHAM PRETTY EASY .PLUS 3STATIONS MORE THAN MOST
THIS CLUB IS FINANCIALLY STABLE LAST TIME I LOOKED .
AND THE UTTER CRAP ABOUT KEEPING HOLD OF OUR STARS BALE,MODDERS BOTH SIGNED A 5YR CONTRACT WHEN WE STILL HAVE A 35000 STADIUM USUAL SCARMONGERING TATICS
THESE ARE SUPPORTERS OF THE SAME TEAM AS U OR IS IT!! MR WHITE
I DISLIKED ALAN SUGAR SPENT LOADS OF MONEY ON CRAP AND WAS STILL PROFITABLE AND WALKED AWAY WITH 20M HIMSELF
PRAY TELL ME THE DIFFERANCE BETWEEN ARSE,CHELSKI,WEST HAM AND TRANSPORT AND US ??
I HATE ALL BICKERING BETWEEN EACH OTHER AND BUT DO NOT LIKE ARSE COMMENTS BY PEOPLE WHO SAY THEY ARE YIDS/SPURS WHAT EVER YOU LIKE SLAGING OTHER PEOPLE OFF BECAUSE OF DIFFERANT OPIONS ON IT WELL OUT OF ORDER YOU ARE MATE SO CALLED JOHN WHITE BELITTLING OTHER PEOPLE
LIKE U TO EXPLAIN THE DIFFERENCE MR PR FOR TOTTENHAM IN TERMS OF MONIES FROM 450M TO 200M
This really is painful. I fell for the redeveloped Lane. I've got the pictures and they come up as my other pics do as part of my screensaver. I feel strongly that WHL is our place but I want us to develop as a club further. I would like to know, as do, clearly, some others of us, just what makes the 'NDP' suddenly no longer viable. Yes, good article and good discussion. I would like some honesty from those who will make 'the decision' for the club, some clarity of argument.
NDP not currently viable? Perhaps Tottenham have not found anyone interested in the naming rights at WHL but the OS may have a lot more interest. Just a thought, no inside information
I thought I had got over the Cockerel, obviously not. Gutted.
You have to be PR if you call title yourself with your full name. Who does that really? John White.
People say they are bored of this now. Imagine what it would be like if we were the preferred biidders for OP!! I dont think we will be from the reports at the moment but this could just be the start.
Levy must have his head up his arse to think this wont blow up if he gets his way.
North London is ours, say no to stratford.
Robby Boy, I don't know what miracle you pulled but I've been on the waiting list for season tickets nearly 10 years and I'm number 812.
I've also been Spurs since '76 and have tried to get to as many games as I can in the meantime through the membership scheme. I prefer being in the Park Lane and every time I go I have to sit where I'm put by the computer. I usually get sneered at by the season ticket holders around me who always generally make some wise-arsed crack about 'They're letting anyone in these days' which really offends me.
From 81-84 I went to every game, home and away, and since then I've been to at least 10-15 ave per season.
It's people like me that want a Season ticket... Not just people who have enjoyed watching Gareth Bale.
Don't turn this into an 'Us & them' the way the people in the Park Lane often do.
@Mes
What are you on about - 10 years!! I got my season ticket in 2005 - so around 5 years ago.
Your talking shite
and never on a waiting list btw
If that's true Yidal, can you send me proof if I supply you an email? I'd like to take that up with the club. I joined the old waiting list (The pre-old membership scheme one) in 2001, then became a member of the old membership scheme (the precursor to One-Hotspur) in 2003. Four of us joined at the same time as we'd all been on the waiting list.
I had one offer for Paxton in the meantime and waited for Park Lane as, in the meantime, I could still get tickets through the membership. When the club launched One Hotspur I was automatically transferred onto the new list, where I sit at no. 812.
If you don't want to send anything direct maybe Mr Spooky will oblige and act as a go-between, I'd really appreciate it?
Sure, although one thing I will say is that they wont give a shit. They wont even give you loyalty points for having been a season ticket holder so when I reverted to a member I had to start on 0!!
Shows that loyalty only works one way. To say I was pissed off at the time was an understatement.
I will support the club whatever the outcome, I just want this chapter in the clubs history to end. As I've gathered, we all want a new stadium for obvious reasons. The uncertainty in will it be NDP,Stratford or some other option is what bothers me. There seems to be smoke and mirrors where ever you look for answers to any questions about improving the home stadium .
As an international fan, I don't think I can choose a side in the Pro/Anti-Stratford matter. I'm not a season ticket holder, or have never been in a game at the Lane. I'll probably never have a season ticket, as the journey from Helsinki is quite troublesome to take every other week.
I have seen Spurs play at Wembley in a friendly Cup, visited WHL and had a pint in the Corner Pin (obviously not post/pre-game). It was the best weekend I've had this far, and a great memory that will last forever. Call me a romantic, but it was great to share my passion for the club, even if the games were meaningless friendlies and not at our home stadium.
The point is, I wish to see Chris's dream of united fans behind the team we love. Get this matter into a conclusion, whatever it may be. You can't please everyone in choosing the road, but we can all support the team on the road that it will take.
Roll on this story being over, it gets a little boring seeing people raise valid points or starting their comment with "I want to stay N17 BUT...." only to then be branded as Spurs PR. It's as stupid and pointless as branding an anti as being one of Lammy's staff.
mes
good luck with the ticket office my experiance you have no chance they are completly and utterly useless when it come to helping people
missed deadline got it back 3mths later got absolutly no help from them lost all points
got it taken away got it back still playing catchup with points had numurous discussions with them one sided
they dont listen!
I can be very stubborn when I need to be! Thanks for the help. What part of the ground is your ticket in? You don't have to be specific to seat/row etc. Just so that I can say?
Ticket office is the same as the board. They want your loyalty but show none back. Having spent thousands of pounds to then be told I had 0 loyalty points was a complete insult.
What can you do though. They use us as pawns when they want us and ignore us when they dont.
It was west to start off with and then I moved to East stand upper.
You must have seen it on the website at the time - they were offering season tickets and then half season tickets and then group matches etc etc
How viable of an option was Stratford when Levy and the club first released details of the N.D.P?
Answer that one. You'd have all scoffed at the very mention of it.
where has the pr man john white gone
One thing's for sure when I read all the pieces - how much love we all have for Spurs and how much angst, hand wringing, turmoil and fence sitting is going on. However, Levy is no fool. He knows what he is doing and let's not say it's our shithole. Why do we want to live in a shithole? We absolutely must look to the future.
Arsenal are now a north London team largely supported by fans generally living in north London and the surrounding areas. Like it or not - that is the bottom line.
Tottenham will follow Arsenal's pattern insofar as that we will eventually become an east London team largely supported by fans generally living in east London and the surrounding areas. It won't? I refer you to Arsenal once again.
Tottenham and West Ham will compete for future support mainly in the present West Ham catchment area. Sure we'll do better than them but make no mistake - we will both suffer.
I live in Potters Bar and its full of Tottenham. Why would future generations want to support an east London team? they won't - north London will belong to Arsenal.
There will only be two winners if our bid is successful - the money men and Arsenal.
This is the harsh reality of the situation and it makes me feel sick.
Football is all about tribalism and supporting your local team and we are giving it away.
Thanks for the info. No, didn't see that at all? Pre-membership we used to get tickets any way we could - either go to the ticket office or queue on the useless phone queueing system, but then started going online to order I guess around 2005/6? Either must have just missed it or went blind, not sure. Stunned to find this out after all this time though. Currently scouring my hard drive for old correspondence/confirmations and about to unleash an unholy jihad on the nice new box office.
what yidal says is true got mine same time half ticket ,did have mine since 71 didnt matter one bit missed deadline phoned up said they would keep it lied and lied when i got down there sold it following day
To be fair before then they were helpful
It all changed to what it is now "probably the most unhelpful ticket office in the world"
John White - How can you take the name of a Spurs legend and tarnish it like that?
Where do you get the £450m cost from?
Well said, PottersBarWhite.
The speed at which many fans want to jump ship without knowing any real facts or figures is amazing.
We have no business in East London at all and we're not wanted there. We will be known as the pikeys who moved in on the pikeys. From a football and fans point of view Stratford shouldn't even be under consideration.
This is a one off opportunity for a few to make a lot of money down the line. Are you mug enough to line businessmen's pockets even further for taking your club away?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/jan/26/battle-for-olympic-stadium
Jan 26, 2011 at 6:41 PM | PottersBarWhite
You'll have pro-Stratford people telling you it doesn't matter because the current existing generation will continue to support the club and that so be it if we become an East London club in terms of catchment area etc because history is relative and it's progression and also we're becoming a brand, world wide, so our fans will come from the planet earth catchment area.
etc etc
These pro-stratford people are not real football fans are they?
They are real and they are better than you.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/olympics/8284915/Olympic-Stadium-Parliament-and-public-backing-for-West-Ham.html
Boom - more music to our ears fellow Tottenham fans : )
50 MP's back West Ham.
Fired up? How about channeling that energy into something positive? Try helping the NDP! Put pressure on the gov't to extend the tube and back the project. Tell Lammy and every other grandstanding politico to put up or shut up. Get pledges from people willing to donate a few dollars. Don't buy anything from the heritage sites to make the compulsory purchase price cheaper. Provide the cannon fodder so that Spurs can take over enough of the area to provide a new stadium and thriving businesses. Levy knows how to turn a profit. Could be a great public works project. A win-win.
Why should the area continue to be isolated from the rest of London?
Or be a little more realistic and intelligent and do nothing.