Ground redevelopment twist: The Calling of the Bluff
Monday, July 26, 2010 at 9:18PM Just seen this on the BBC. Apparently Spurs are in informal talks about the possibility of making a bid for the 2012 Olympic Stadium.
Hmm.
Hands up if you think Levy is doing this to force the hand of Haringey, who continue to drag their feet with our ground redevelopment plans? Sure, there are financial positives (i.e. less money to spend) if we took the 2012 option. But considering the effort and design of our original proposal to remain where we are - it's time for the local authorities in swanky N17 to get their fingers our of their collective arses and stop with the hurdle placements (which we seem to be jumping over every time regardless).
The recent police and heritage issues reported in one paper appeared to be a little mis-informed (the suggestion was that the new ground would not pass safety regulations and gain it's security certificate). The reality is - everyone involved is hopeful. Every supposed issue can be worked around. And do Haringey really want the best thing about visiting Tottenham gone forever? They'll end up with that lush kebab house on the high street just past the Paxton on the opposite side of the road, where they wrap up the meat. Awesome. But not worth visiting if there's no football to watch straight after.
So I applaud Levy's game of silly buggers. Get stuck in guv.
Reader Comments (58)
agreed, great article
I dont think it would be the end of the world if we got the olympic stadium anyway. A bit of redevelopment would make it a good footy venue and the transport links and surrounding facilties would all be brand spanking new and plentiful.
Would there be enough pubs though??
I sincerely hope this is silly buggers. Seeing the approach of Levy I am sure it is. He understands the value of our heritage. Leaving N17 is handing it to the Scum. NOT GONNA HAPPEN
Agreed. It is high time we played hard ball with the council they are taking the piss now at this stage. Tis put up or shut up time.
Fucking bureaucratic shit, every time I read an update on this they are asking us to change this and change that and we bend over backwards and I'm not so much complaining because the revised plans are better than the original but fucking hell, just approve the fucking thing so we can start building it. There is nothing in Tottenham other than the club, no offence to anyone who lives there.
I'd shed a tear for all the pubs that have been homes away from home for many a year pre and post game.
True enough, and I LOVED the new designs. But he has to draw the line with the council somewhere - and why settle for a watered down version of a great design?
Good post.... My thoughts exactly.... It's a bluff. It would take big cash to change the Olympic Stadium to get all the benefits of the new WHL, like crowd close to the pitch, a Kop-style end etc and they have to keep a running track for 1 event a year. Having said that, I live in Kent and drive right past it on my way to WHL every week so the journey would be much better.... COYS....
Levy knows that we need the new stadium to bring in more profit for the club and to reach the next level. He must leverage anything he can with the Haringey Council at this point.
Good move, but I would be sad to leave the area.
I have to say that going to a Spurs home match anywhere else other than the present location would just not be right. For me it would spoil the whole match day experience and I'm not sure I could get over it. I am now seriously worried that (football) life, for me, could change drastically after 40+ years.
It better only be a bluff or I tell you now when we move in I will personally be chasing Levy round the f'in running track before we kick off!
I mean seriously if I wanted to watch my football from a distance I would stay and home and watch on TV!
I fear for the future of Tottingham, the place. Bureaucracy will kill the area.
I think we should trust Mr Levy. He's making a good job of running our club in my opinion and as much as I'm not looking forward to finding somewhere to park when there are nearly 20,000 more people at home games, I really like the new stadium....
Its about time this action was taken. They are taking ths piss. Im in the masterplanning business and undersake the the planning process. Levy would have spent over £ 5 million minimum to date to get where he is. Harringay needs to understand the options. If they want tottenham without WHL then they should continue to course they are taking.
The decision on the 4 buildings is also a joke. They will be demolished within 5 years of the ground being finished. Look how stupid they look within the context of the stadiaum development.
What has Harringay done for the area in 20 years. Oh yes, made the Tottenham Gyratory system a one way and now they are looking to convert it back to a 2 way system.
Levy, call their bluff and if we go to the Olympic stadium for a year or two then so be it.
Time to up the ante. Look for a site on the M25 next to a railway line. Somewhere near the new training complex.
Most of the Seven Sisters Road is a complete toilet.
What better way to compliment and blend in with the surrounding area than to build a massive, shiny, state of the art toilet bowl?
Are they mad?
Also the small matter that the Stadium is going to be in Stratford. As in (very) East London. Not North.
Stratford Hotspur just does not have the same ring to it. We might need to go that extra step and become the Newham Rangers, or the Hackney Rovers. Or God help us, West Ham United.
Its a bluff, but the prospects for the area if we move away are grim and the local council must know this.
Levy is playing hardball to get the current plans through without any more objections/ delays.
I wonder how the cost of the 2 projects compare ?
Any financial experts out there ?
If moving to the Olympic stadium means we save a lot of money which we can use to buy players, would we supporters object to the move ?
Sod Haringey then. Let's build our new stadium right over the road from the Library v2.0. See how those caravan towin' nomads like it when we lift the League Title right under their noses.
We could then get a massive inflatible cockeril (or cock, whichever suits the occassion), and fly it high above the ground so that those gooners will always see it and know we're there.
Surely enough is enough, we're talking about the future of our club here, the only decent thing in that godforsaken shithole of a borough. My pride swelled when hearing that name broadcast in the recent New York games, if only they knew what a crap hole the area actually was, and how that same bunch of non entities are destroying any chance the club has of ever being amongst the elite. Why of course they get our parking fines every fortnight, because of their callous deployment of parking restrictions, and of course they dont give a toss, because most of us have moved out a long while ago, leaving it to the scum-bags, drug dealers and whores what seem to benefit mostly from our own enforced donations. Move out to Enfield or beyond, a new site totally, keep the name but relocate to somewhere where our endeavours are more appreciated.
"What better way to compliment and blend in with the surrounding area than to build a massive, shiny, state of the art toilet bowl?"
Obviously I meant 'complement', although the proposed new stadium will be so cutting edge, it might actually be able to speak to the surrounding area.
probably a bluff. but the olympic stadium has advantages. i.e move in very quickly and much cheaper. If we don't there is a big chance that lot down the road would have paid off their debt by the time the new whl is completed.
As a football team we need to start to compete and maybe, as much as it might hurt that might be the sensible option...not what the heart says, but the one the head tells you is right.
staying at the lane is the only way of keeping alive the soul of the club! although playing hardball will be a must as well, maybe packing up and renting /ground share for a season would soon show what the worst fears for the area could be and open all doors to us for the future.... tottenham with out hotspur??? they'd be mad!
Spooky, I'm not sure your mate Levy will appreciate you giving the game away.
David, No because the Olympic Stadium comes complete with mandatory running track. No thanks!
It's bollocks. But I'm afraid that Levy doing this might backfire. A local authority has to be above reproach etc and have a transparent planning process. This 'threat' could be seen in a similar light as a bribe. Anyway as you've all already said the place is fuck all without the club. I don't want to be anywhere else. The scum would have a great laugh at that.
Anyone know how many similar types of issues Arsenal had building their stadium before being granted approval?
My first thought is that Levy has always intended to move to the Olympic stadium. or Wembley The cinics have been saying that the new stadium plans were a ruse all along to woo potential buyers of the club. I always rejected that theory but now I'm not so sure.
Hope Levy proves my worries to be totally unfounded.
I love the new stadium design but f*** the leftie lunatic gooner liberal unite union livingstone galloway scum that run Harringey. I would have no prob Spurs moving out along the A10 to Enfield. Or Old Skool Cheshunt. Heart of Spurs territory. But OLYMPIC STADIUM NO F***ING WAY IN EAST LONDON. ITS MADNESS EVEN THINKING ABOUT IT. LET WEST HAM HAVE IT AND THE RUNNING TRACK AND SHARE IT WITH OUR USELESS ATHLETES WHO WILL WIN SOD ALL AT 2012 APART FROM THE SHOOTING AND HORSE JUMPING BUT STILL GET OBE'S FOR COMING A GALLANT THIRD IN THE WOMEN'S HOCKEY.
Levy has done a brilliant job so far, and don't forget the new training centre (it's difficult to with the amount of blurb the club put out about it!). COYS.
God I live in nz and I thought we were slow to embrace forward thinking measures.But the Harringey City Coucil are obviously bureaucrats of the highest order,When they are prepared to let their biggest monetary assett in the area, think of departing.Im sorry to say it but they must be the biggest set of morons to ever run a council.I really feel for the local people to have to put up with such petty mineded individuals.The first thing i notice when I make my pilgrimage to white hart Lane,is how depressed the area looks.It really needs to upgrade its self but that does not look possible under the present regime that your have installed there.Anyhow COYS and a curse on all the politico's with a dead head brain.
Er... it's not 'bureaucracy' or 'the council' playing silly buggers - it's called 'democracy' and 'consultation'. It's exactly because of people like some of those on here that we have due process: ie. to prevent those who shout loudest getting their way every time.
Most people give the game away by slagging off the area of the team they claim to support: "it's a toilet anyway" and "let's build a stadium to improve the area (but I'll only go there for a couple of hours every two weeks... but probably live in essex and watch it on telly anyway")
The police are nothing to do with the council: they give advice on safety and I think they probably know what they're talking about.
CABE are there to improve architectural designs and are expert about the impact it has on the area they are put into. The original design was silly. The stadium was okay: it was nice and big, but really bland (compare and contrast with the cheaper and much more impressive Durban, Cape Town, Johannesburg) but this wasn't even CABE's problem: they pointed out that there were incongruous, massive blocks of flats which didn't fit with the shape of the stadium and which we'd have to walk through every week. Did anyone else notice the massive supermarket right next to the stadium either? This would have created huge bottlenecks for pedestrians, while the design got rid of the 19th century houses on the High Rd which are Tottenham's history.
Before slagging off the council (who have nothing to do with this yet) and the area (go and support Chelsea instead if you don't like the area) why don't some people actually study the designs and think about it? It is a democratic process to improve the design for everyone who uses it and who lives in the area, so why jump in without thinking first? Probably the same people who used to slag off Tom Huddlestone...
Levy is sensibly exploring other alternatives if the process becomes too difficult, but it isn't calling anyone's bluff: he wants the stadium built so he can sell the club for as much as possible. It would be preferable to stay in N17, but the main thing for ENIC is to expand the capacity so they need to have a plan B.
Why don't we just show some patience, get behind the club, and persuade them to produce the best-quality and most impressive design possible as we're going to have to live with it for the next 100 years! That would be something to be proud of: rather than a bland Tesco-bowl with silly flats and a supermarket all around it?
Bravo, DC, bravo.
The never ending story of petty objections would make anyone wonder at the red shirted (football or politics:take yr pick) motivation of all of them.
This is one area that still has yet to recover from WW2 and he new stadium would give it a real transfusion of life and upgrade what is almost a slum.
The number and the kind of the objections & the people behind them tell me that it has NOTHING to do with what or where but loads to do with WHO wants to build it there. They seem really worried to have another club in London with a large money attracting ground.
I am against foreign ownership but if the NY Yankee owners(since denied I believe) wished to plough in some cash so that we could simply steamroll over these objections , it would suit me fine.
I may be paranoid but I keep getting the "GUT" feeling that this has shades of 1919 attached to it by a group infamous for their dishonesty and well capable of the odd bribe in the right place. *flaksuit on*
DC quite true..but compare the objections to the Emirates to ours
They were fewer by far; less petty and quickly silenced.
IMHO there is more to this than simple neighbourhood access & "historical" architecture.
Anybody remember the old BBC skit about the Yank wanting to buy one of London's illustrious "edifices"?
It may have been Tony Hancock but it was a very long time ago but it sort of, fits here :-D
I love White Hart Lane.
That other place is crap.....it aint for football and its not WHITE HART LANE
I say move away and build a brand new stadium in a well desgined/organised area. Tottenham is a s%$t hole and the only thing worth seeing is the ground. If the borough council are dragging their heels just move and let them waddle in the mess they have created.
I hope it has substance.
The new stadium design looks fantastic and would kick start the regeneration of an area that desperately needs it.
The High road is a shambolic collection of run down shops selling largely poor quality produce or even seedier Barbers and fast food outlets.The transport links are poor, parking is ridiculously dificult and the nearest Underground a good twenty minute walk away.Only a small percentage of fans actually live inand around Tottenham so wheres the pain?
Taking the emotional nonsense out of the equation ,even if we stay in the High road it wont be White Hart Lane anymore so why worry,once we are in the new stadium ,wherever it is, it will be " home" and "home for 30,000
more Spurs fans than than now.Of course i ll miss the Lane and the memories but when we start the buid memories will be all that exist,so lets not get hung up on it.If the council really dont want us there,and lets face it they have been a constant pain in the backside to the club for years,then lets go,leave them the depravation and squallor that is Tottenham and let them pick up the pieces.Be honest ,just how proud are you to bring friends and family to Tottenham ?
If we left the area it would finish off the few remaining pubs ,close half the restaurants and kill any meaningful investment,so good luck with that Harringay,you worryabout the important stuff like where to site the next set of parking restrictions,while the best oppourtunity you ve had for a century goes to the next borough.Wankers all.
"he wants the stadium built so he can sell the club for as much as possible"
I've been saying this all along.
Read into some of the objections though. Especially the heritage stuff. I mean we are talking about buildings that have been derelict for how many years now? And we've had to re-design around them and they still want changes made because these buildings don't quite look right with a brand new spanking stadium sitting around them.
I can't believe the number of people advocating a move from the area. Tottenham wasn't always a dump, and we've not always been out of the top four even though it might seem that way.
We crap on the woolich wanderers for moving into our hood, and now we're contemplating the move in the other direction. As for taking away the emotion, how can you possibly do that with a club of Spurs' heritage and tradition.
We must stay in the area for the good of Tottenham and the club.
"he wants the stadium built so he can sell the club for as much as possible"
mmm possibly,but would it not make more sense to sell now while we are possibly Champions league and before shelling out £400,000,000.?
Once the stadium is bult its a huge asset for sure, but the debt is considerable against it and could take a decade or more to clear.
This is all nonsense. Sir Keith Mills is a non-executive director of both the Club and Tottenham Hotspur Plc. When he was appointed it was categorically stated by the Club that this ruled out any involvement with the Olympic Stadium as "In September 2003, he was appointed International President and CEO of London 2012 and led the team which delivered the successful bid for the 2012 Olympic and Paralympic Games." Any Tottenham bid to use the stadium would lead to claims of corruption. because Sir Keith has been a director of both entities, albeit at different times. Adrian Warner of the BBC should have known this or have been able to find it out. If Sir Keith Mills suddenly resigns as a Tottenham Director, then it might be interpreted as a feeble attempt to get round this, but unless he does there is no chance of such a move happening. And let's face it even if he did, his previous influence would be enough to preclude Tottenham's involvement.
AntiOnan Knows too !
It's those Goon supporting Masons up to their dirty tricks again !
Anytime we seem to be making progress on the planning application something else comes up. Why cant the council just give us a list of all the things they think should be done so we can work through them one by one and get our new stadium built, instead of throwing these curve balls consistently every few months. Surely as the people in charge they would know everything required for the application to be successful. The goons didn't have half the trouble we are having with their stadium. Surely the council can see how vital the club is to the area they should be bending over backwards to help us get it built but they are doing the complete opposite. It doesn't make sense unless they don't want it built. Levy sort these fuckers out please it is gone beyond a joke at this stage well past that actually.
I know a spot in cheshunt right next to the M25 J25 opposite the paper plant and travellodge. It'd be plenty big enough and train station is about a mile or two away, just no tube. But it means I could walk from my parents house! =D
I think the process was always going to be hard work because of the traffic links.
The road system can barely handle a match day now, I think the council is trying to get the club to sort the problem out for them. The current excuse is the new super market, solution, shut it on match days. Make that rule clear to who buys it.
The public transport link is poor, but it's not that bad. I think if Northumberland Park had a platform for the underground it'll be a lot better. Ideally you'd want a link to the Picadilly Line added to the hale or seven sisters, but that would never happen.
I hope the move to the Olympic stadium is a bluff, if we keep getting pushed on silly issues redeveloping the area might become not worth it.
I haven’t seen a copy of the police concerns, but as far as I know you can say that about any football ground in the country.
Personally, I have felt that one of the things that has held us back in the past few years has been the size of our ground. It is not even in the Top 10 in England.
We have regular full houses at WHL, and a waiting list of 20,000 for a season ticket. Add to this 5-10,000 travelling away fans, and it is possible to see that even the new ground at 56,000 may not be enough. That is before we play Ar5ena1, Manure and Chelski.
Imagine us in a 70,000 seat stadium, and the extra revenue, which would allow us to breach the current wage structure, and compete for any of the big names in Europe.
To me it's all about money, and though I admire the prudence of DL, we don't have sugar daddy owners like Chelski and Citeh. Therefore, we can only rely on the team so far, and eventually, we will see the best players being taken by the biggest wallets.
Over the past few seasons, we have had trouble getting so called "Marquee" signings, because of our lack of CL football. City have this problem now, but are able to get around it with £200k a week wages. There are plenty of players who may have to make the decision £200k a week at Citeh, or £75k and CL at WHL.
To most of us, if we earned £4 mill pa, £10 mill pa would not make a lot of difference to our way of life. You can only sleep in one bed at a time. Unfortunately, Agents, the modern cancer in the game, would want to direct their clients towards the £10 mill.
With all due respect to the WHL/High rd diehards, the CL is the holy grail and we need to do everything we can to bring in the players that will keep us in it.
OLD SKOOL Cheshunt would be good - there's nearly as many kebab shops
ha!ha!ha!-the tottenham nomads lol!-stratford hotspur-an even bigger shithole than tottenham-you want to rent it-"the stratford rent boys-priceless !bring it on-pleeeasse!
Spurs should move to Milton Keynes, it has everything (and more)
DC...
"Most people give the game away by slagging off the area of the team they claim to support:"
I've lived there, worked there, been drunk there, sobered up there and been assulted there...why should I not slag off the area? Because I support the team? And on that basis I support the skag heads and criminals who live in the area too?
"while the design got rid of the 19th century houses on the High Rd which are Tottenham's history."
Run down, decrepit, boarded up, squats of history...nice.
Am I the only one whose eyes water when considering a toilet bowl with a cutting edge??
I am in the Planning & Development game and the problem is with this application (and any large application in the modern day) is that it is so bloody complicated...There will be dozens of reprots prepared for the scheme, each requiriing different cosultantsm each costing thousands of pounds and each being consulted on in the planning process...everything from transport, to safety to the environment.
The whole project is also referred to the Mayor. A report is provided to him, by his staff, detailing all apects of the development and how it stacks up against the policies of the Lodnon Plan. The Mayor has the power to direct a refusal if he wants, or take over the running of the application or make recommendations to the Council.
So, if the Mayor is not happy, then it can be taken out of Haringeys hands and all Levy's threats would be ignored.
As I understand the latest sticking point is traffic to the stadium and more importantly the supermarket and how the 2 could operate at the same time when the roads are in chaos. It is bad enough trying to drive or bus through the area pre/post match, imagine if there is a huge supermarket with 400 parking spaces. It would be a mess. These issues cannot be ignored, but what is poor is that this issue has arisen now, and not when the first application was submitted. Unfortunately, with technical issues such as highways, there are few compromises that can be made. You have to address the problem or fail