FA Cup or 4th - Revisited
Friday, May 7, 2010 at 2:20PM Remember this?
FA Cup or 4th?
FA Cup = immediate silverware, club shop dvd, another chapter written into the history books
-
4th = CL
CL = more money, better players
More money, better players = possible title challenge
Title challenge = top 4 placement every season
Top 4 placement every season = CL every season
CL every season = even more money, even better players
Even more money, even better players = sustained title challenges
Sustained title challenges = potentially lots of silverware
Simplified, I know. Qualifying one season for the CL doesn't mean there's a guarantee you'll be in it the following. But that's a defeatist attitude. Anyways, to answer my own question:
Both.
A Cup final didn't quite work out for us, but the intensity of the Prem game at Eastland's felt like one. And tbh, as much as tangible silverware means the world to me (it goes down in history as history and the game is meant to be about glory, right?), in order to push on we need CL football. It's just the way the modern game is built. Otherwise all you're left with is the odd cup final win now and again, leaving you somewhat empty because you're missing out on the next level of play (read the quoted text above again).
We need it season in season out. Now that might not be possible if Villa, Everton and of course City (and go on then) Arsenal continue to have aspirations to crack the top 4 or stay there. And let's not forget the red-faced Anfield club. Hence the importance that as much as we all like to remind ourselves that we sat at the bottom with 2 points from 8 games and CL football was never the true target this season - failure would have been / could have been devastating. Morale would have been impacted and potential of key players looking elsewhere for their top tier Euro fix a possibility much like previous summers. We now have the players anchored and can look to sign new ones who in the past politely declined because of our league standing.
The monopoly is dead, for the moment. And the new dawn might comprise of 5-6 clubs fighting for 4th and 3rd meaning that CL entry is shared from one season to the next. That might have a detrimental effect on Chelsea and United and the top of the Prem might end up being wide wide open. Which, for the love of football, would be amazing. But with feet on the ground, it could still yet prove to be a hardship. And that's how we should approach it. Take nothing for granted.
I've heard a few people say it, 4th is the new FA Cup. I don't doubt our ability to actually get our hands on that old and beautiful trophy. I'm sure we'll have our day again at Wembley. One step at a time, and the club should simply look ahead and prepare themselves for the qualifier and then (fingers crossed) the group stages.
Where Harry needs to earn his money all over again is making sure we don't get carried away with our travels into the promised land and continue to concentrate on the Prem - because until we are actually good enough to win the CL (dream the impossible dream - I don't actually expect us to win it by the way, but it would be stupid to make it THE only objective next season) the league has to remain the priority.
But honestly, all this is just hypothetical musings, way to early and too serious to be thought about in any great detail at this point, at the end of a fine season. 2010 has been a blast. Our club likes to take us through the mire, punish us for daring to support them, taking us to the edge and back so finally achieving this means a lot. Considering how dismissive other fans and the media have been in the past, it's a significant milestone in our recent history and the EPL.
In the mean time, get sodding drunk, enjoy Sunday at Burnley when there is no pressure on the players at all and sing up, sing up, with those arms out-stretched and fingers waving to the tune of...that song we sing, the marching one. I'm sure you've heard it a few times.
We'll let Levy and Harry worry about the '5 year plan'. As long Spurs continue to play with flair and entertain the f*ck out of us, whilst pulling our hearts from our chest down to our toes, I will continue to love my life as a supporter of THFC.
To dare is to do do do.
p.s. I'm wetting myself in anticipation for MoTD and Lineker v Hansen/Lawro.
Reader Comments (54)
1st
2nd
Sky Sports saturday afternoon will be fun as well. We didn't get much support from Thomson, Nicholas, Merson and co either!!
Enjoy the mid season break with loads to look forward to.
April was always about 4th. Even when we beat Arsenal, I was happier with the three points than the opportunity to give back some well deserved stick to deluded Arsenal supporting mates. I think, for me, that and the sense of disapointment if we'd not got 4th is the true measure of how far we've come this season.
BTW top stuff Spooky, really enjoyed the blog since my mate introduced me to it a couple of months back. Keep up the excellent work.
COYS!
The fans preferring FA Cup over 4th were being a tad selfish.... DON'T GET ME WRONG - We are owe so much to those fans that travel to every game and help give our boys the best chance in the matches. But the majority of them were saying that they would get a great day out at Wembley. But that is about 25,000 Spurs fans who can actually get to that final. What about the other (MAJORITY) of Spurs fans who want to see their team progress? Don't discount us - we also go to occaisional games. We buy the shirts and merchandise. We increase viewing figures on tv. Let's be honest; another FA Cup would have been nice but we have many of those already. But we haven't previously finished 4th in the Premier league. We haven't appeared in the Champions League (and still must qualify). Also an Fa cup with no Champions League could have soon seen Lennon, Bale, Hudd, Modric move on to teams that could achieve it. This way they will stay knowing that it is achievable here. Great season.
The FA Cup would have been good but would have left us feeling empty if we had finished with a 5th spot place in the Prem.
Not just the sky panel and motd.
The swede mashing dogger collymore
was so dismissive he had us finishing 7th.
Spooky, pray we don't get knocked out in the qualifying round. We'll be crucified, and then we'll be wanting to win the Europa League because it's a 'important competition'.
anyone believe in karma, dodgy lasagne for ar2ena1 before being pipped of their postion on the final day by their bitter rivals. coys
We can only pray...
There is a simple solution to get past the qualifying stage.
Get Torres or Tevez. I reckon both will be seeking new homes.
I pray for an decent draw... Everton were really unlucky to get Villareal that time. Villareal were also an even better team back then. He won't leave, but Tevez would be good for Spurs - plus he takes a mean penalty (are you listening Defoe?). We need to find a striker like Tevez - who can play with any partner - or even on his own. I know we are in dreamland right now, but don't dream too much - Torres, Villa etc are coming nowhere near White Hart Lane - unless as opponents.
12th...WTF?! is it a race?
Anyway, we sort of got both this year...or losing out in one gave us the belief to achieve the other, and it DID feel like a cup final of cup finals up at middle eastlands.
I can safely say this has been one motherfucking beautiful season...long may this continue.
Spooky, any chance you can go all old skool on us with a dear mr levy letter? But not like the recent ones, I'm talking true old skool.
Pretty please.
I dont know much about the departures except something deep down tells me there will be one or two surprises.
What's more important is to build on our achievement. We are now able to offer CL football to prospective talents and should use it.
1. I read that Joe Cole may be interested, provided we stump up S$100K per week. Ridiculous.
2. Some names from the continent to consider:
Mesut Özil LW or AMC
Miguel Veloso DM
Simon(?) Kjaer DC
Of course this is subject to who we will sell, and I am a bit unclear about the status of Sandro.
3. I bear in mind possiblity of the following being allowed to leave:-
Jenas, Hutton, Pav, Dos Santos, K Walker or K Naughton (or both), Cudicini or Alnwick or both, and Keane. What has happened to Woodgate? Even if Eidur is going to stay, he's not a long term solution.
4. We also need good backup / alternative for Gomes. I daresay we might also need someone who can finish. Bojan Kricic?
I would be happy to be proven wrong (by going continental) and instead we unearth the next best British talent (after Bale).
My purpose of stating this is to put it out there to HR and or whoever in charge of recruitment, to consider building a squad to compete with the big boys. It is easy to fall back into the chasing pack, but we should consider loftier targets, like regular qualification in the CL, challenging for the title, frightening the wits out of Europe's elite and winning the FA Cup or other trophies as a matter of habit.
Would be happy to share thoughts with others.
Precisely the point Tony Tott. To succeed in the CL we need to add a CL class striker.
IMO we don't need to go crazy and buy up big. The stocks in our defence and midfield are probably okay.
But that extra class striker...will make all the difference.
A top top top TOP striker is much needed. 25/26 year old, proven quality on the CL stage.
Names?
A bit greedy here but.......
I'm so happy we finally have a crack at the CL and with the strength of the EPL it's a real achievement!! But I still can’t help but feel we missed the trick this season in the FA Cup because on the current form we would have had Chelsea!! And I can’t see Pompy having a prayer against them.
Still one good(ish) note was that we lost to Pompy because those fans deserve it after the absolute hell they have been through this season.
And in the end we got the greater prize of CL qualification, as shown by Pompy themselves an FA cup win does not lead to progression but regardless of how we do in the CL next season finishing forth shows that we are going places and you have to start somewhere.
Call me a dreamer, but the two Ts are the most obvious.
Both will be unhappy staying at clubs not playing in the CL.
Both are too good to be not playing in the CL.
And isn't Tevez unhappy with Mancini?
Dazza, you are a bit greedy...! Just to reiterate - we have not 'got the greater prize of CL qualification'. So far we have merely qualified for the qualification round.
Can anyone tell me the average age of the bellmong that gets a hard on by typing "1st"?
In answer to the question, I wanted both, however CL was really the one we had to have to push on and challenge regularly.
If we had one cup, but no CL we would have been tad disappointed- for the fight for 4th, we showed such doggedness & resillience for this spot- losing out would have been a bitter pill, especially if we were watching City play Real next year. We look forward with greater optimism with 4th secured= record no of wins, fighting off quality teams: villa, pool, city, everton; 6 precious pts against Arsenic & Chelski- which SHOOK OUR RIVALS INTO ACTION and upped the ANTE. But the Boys to the spoils in the Lions Den. 4th bcos of prestige of CL far outweights the FA cup- this is reality! Just ask Benites & co; the Spurs board; & eurpean clubs.
The pay off for 37 games hard labour beats a day out at Wembley.
Tony, That qualification game is played as part of the CL under CL rules and very much part of the competition and to be honest aside from Lyon and Sevilla I don’t care who we get, with Bale and Lennon on each wing Daws and King in defence combined with our hunger to make the group stages the other teams should be hoping to avoiding us!!
and my point is that finishing 4th is a huge statement of intent allot more so then winning the FA Cup what more do you want we cant run before we learn to crawl, just ask Villa and City fans if we didn’t get the greater prize!!
Finishing 4th makes us the 4th best club in the country and its a statement. A huge one at that.
Hope you're wrong Spooky!
After this weekend, we might be the third best club in the country!
Then we can have true bragging rights for a full year at least over the scum!
At the time i said Fa Cup, but looking back, if we can manage this right, this could be a whole lot bigger.
The cup would have been a nice page in our history, Champions League could start a whole new chapter.
Spurs boys out on the piss in Loughton. No doubt Arsenal will lose to Fulham and we'll end up with a score-draw or worse at Burnley.
Harry Out !
FINAL LEAGUE POSITIONS 2010
CHELSKI
MANURE
TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR (GOD BLESS THEM)
THE FILTH
HEARD ONE OF THEIR SUPPORTERS ON THE BUS TODAY TALKING ON HIS MOBILE TO ONE OF HIS MATES BELIEVE YOU ME THEY ARE S****ING THEMSELVES. EVEN IF IT DOSN'T HAPPEN I AM ENJOYING THE MOMENT.
COYS
If it happened, it would complete the journey we've been on since 2006.
Since 1961 in my case
WOW 4TH SPOT AND CL FOOTY!! I TAKE IT ALL BACK, SEE YOU NEXT SEASON WHEN YOU FLOP AND CRASH OUT THE QUALIFYING ROUND :D
Another striker to consider at the right age group of 25/26 - Podolsky.
Seems like he's been around forever, but he turns 25 in June.
Beautiful mover, deadly feet...would be a good fit.
Enjoy it baby Spurs HAVE qualified for the Champions' League. What they have not qualified for is the GROUP STAGE of the Champions' League (which, of course, is the important bit). To quote from the UEFA website:
"The UEFA Champions League comprises of three qualifying rounds, a play-off round, a group stage and four knockout rounds".
In timewe will deal with this;
Firstly, Milan are already straight through to the group stages. Secondly, Spurs are very likely to be seeded, partly because they had a couple of decent UEFA cup runs a few years back, and also because a number of big sides around Europe have failed to make the Champions League.
With the likes of Liverpool, Juve, Porto, PSV, Bordeaux and CSKA all failing to make it plus Sevilla and Lyon struggling it will make Spurs job a whole lot easier. In fact i'm pretty sure even if Sevilla and Lyon make the Play-off round Spurs will still be seeded.
Something like this could be whats left in the draw.
Seeded Non-Champions: Sevilla, Lyon, Werder, Zenit, Spurs.
Unseeded: Olympiakos, Rangers, Ajax, Samp, Braga, Fenernahce/Galatasaray
That still wont make things easy although you'd probably fancy a win against any of those unseeded clubs.
Hmmm. Ok. Well, I do care who we get in the qualifying round. Why? Because there is no room for error. Everton found that out. Once you get to the group stage, you can do poorly in your first 2 games and get away with it. Do poorly in the first game of the qualifying round and it's curtains. Besides, a few articles are mentioning Sampdoria, Ajax, Celtic etc, but they never mention that we could face a host of Austrian, Cypriot, Hunarian etc teams. My point is - we don't want to do an Everton and get the hardest team when there are 10 'easier' teams to draw. I accept that once we get to the Champions League group stage, that it is a learning process - therefore my expectations are not that high. We would be 3rd seed in the group, so it could be tough. But first things first...
Triffics, I cannot see how we can be seeded above teams with recent champions league experience such as Ajax, Olympiakos or the big Turkish teams.
i dont think i could handle it if we finsihed 3rd - i am still pissed from wednesday night...............
It's touch and go but it looks like Spurs could well be seeded as we are ranked roughly 30th in Europe with about 56 points.
Champions League points provide a few bonus points but it's about European experience over the last five years and we have had 3 half decent runs in the UEFA Cup to back us up.
If we are seeded we would be the fifth seed as there is at least three and soon to be probably four teams ranked higher than us.
And as for doing an Everton, they were unlucky (I know, I know) with the draw and an awful refereeing decision. They weren't prepared in any way for European football let alone the Champions league not to dissimilar to our current crop when they first started, so the non seeding was no surprise the team itself had little depth and I think went from 17th to 4th in one season, Spurs on the other hand have had 3 recent campaigns in europe which will have built up their UEFA coefficient and have some experience and a far superior sqaud..so I think fingers crossed and belief firmly in. we will fare much better in the qualifier.
He only gone and done it
'Harry Redknapp named manager of the year for cracking top four with Tottenham Hotspur'
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1274696/Harry-Redknapp-named-manager-year-cracking-Tottenham-Hotspur.html?ITO=1490#ixzz0nGNIfkjr
He only gone and done it
'Harry Redknapp named manager of the year for cracking top four with Tottenham Hotspur'
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1274696/Harry-Redknapp-named-manager-year-cracking-Tottenham-Hotspur.html?ITO=1490#ixzz0nGNIfkjr
I would rather have won the FA Cup and finished 5th.
Spurs should be all about playing good football and winning silverware and whist the football is great, I did not want to swap future glory for Silverware today.
At the start of the season I said I would be happy with
a good cup run, a top 6 finish and at least a plus ten goal difference,
so don't take the above as a moan, its just my opinion on FA Cup win over 4th place.
To be successful in Europe and have a title push I believe we need a fearsome, physically dominant striker that possesses both pace and skill. For me we HAVE to put a bid in for the unsettled Mario Balotelli of Inter. The guys a BEAST! Could be our Drogba and would be awesome up with Defoe.
check it out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGLkcLNRWKQ
Steve TT...I said EXACTLY the same at the start, but that was probably because I thought we were top 6 AT BEST. Arry and the lads proved me wrong...this feels better I think.
Whether that would be the case if we hadn't reached Wembley in three consecutive seasons I don't know, but it probably has something to do with it I guess.
I say let's enjoy it for ourselves.....afterall, it's kind of about bragging rights too...If we had won the FA Cup and Citeh had got fourth, I know who everyone would be talking about/noticing...and it certainly wouldn't have been us.
Be safe in the knowledge that we have just qualified for the Champions League (qualifiers I know) and NEXT YEAR the year ends in a one.
COYS!
Still can't believe it myself.
I defy anyone to tell me that the euphoria surrounding the team and us fans on Wednesday night felt like anything less than a cup final. Silverware is nice, but progress is everything. For those of you old enough to remember vividly the glory days, I'm sure you feel different, but people like me only remember the 15 or so years of mid table finishes, mediocrity and (league cup notwithstanding) sweet fuck all. This is a turning point for the club, the point where we can finally start looking to the future with confidence instead of trepidation, where instead of just rehashing the same old stories of heartbreak and betrayal, we can look forward to our heroes becoming real legends of the club. I would love to tell my children stories of the great Aaron Lennon in the same reverent tones that people used when they told me about Danny Blanchflower, Dave Mackay or Jimmy Greaves.
Did anyone here the story about the pillock of a Citeh supporter who had a European Champions 2011 tattoo done?
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/world-of-sport/article/1560/
I was all for the cup glory but in truth, 4th was the one I dared not wish for. I just felt we will let ourselves down on the final huddle and I am glad that this team has shown it has spine and can challenge the big boys.
Going into next year, I hope 'Arry and Levy won't go crazy by making a dramatic change of personnel like we did 2 years ago (sale of Berba, Keane, Tanio, Chimbonda, Malbranque, Robinson, and Zokora; and replaced with Modric, Gomes, Bentley, and Gio). We have to keep the core of our first team intact and only add 1 or 2 key players to fortify our team. The goal has to be to surpass our achievement this year. We have 70 points with a chance of making it 73. With the points we dropped this season we could have had more therefore we have the room and capacity to make it 80 points next year.
I am not bothered with who meet in the qualifiers as long as we play to our strength. Other teams should be worried about meeting us not us worried about playing them. Let's go for it.
COYS
I think you're posing a false argument. There's no reason it had to be either/or, unless you're saying that winning the cup would mean everyone would sit back for the rest of the season and not try for fourth. Kind of hard to retroactively assess psychological impacts. Then, the (much as I am sick to death of this phrase) knee-jerkers were saying having lost the cup, we proved we were crap and bottlers and would roll over against our top 3 opponents in the next three matches. Well, that didn't happen, did it? Now, the theory is, had we gotten to the FA Cup final, we wouldn't have tried in those matches? What? Back then, the assumption was that getting in to the final would have given us the confidence to tear into the Arse, Chelscum and Manure. So maybe I'm missing something, but it still seems like a false choice to me.
"Going into next year, I hope 'Arry and Levy won't go crazy by making a dramatic change of personnel like we did 2 years ago ... We have to keep the core of our first team intact and only add 1 or 2 key players to fortify our team."
I completely agree with this sentiment. I heard reports that Harry is saying he doesn't want to buy 5 players, just one world class one. Works for me, provided that one player fits with our existing squad. Our season starts extremely early next "year" with potentially the single most important match of the season coming first. Very little time for bedding in. So selective strengthening, yes. Wholesale changes, just cause we can now, no.
Re Podolsky--he's been having an absolute 'mare, since he went to Bayern and even after returning to his home club whose name escapes me just now but one of the yoyo clubs that bounces in and out of Bundesliga 1. In brief, he does not appear to transplant well. Can be a stunning player, but very risky proposition.
Torres anyone? Or we should just buy back Berbatov from Man Utd to pair up with Robbie again.
I do think our strikers need to face up to the reality that the CL is a step up from the Europa League and the additional burden on the players will be huge and they have to be mentally prepared to keep scoring against top-class opposition. But it does make me salivate that we can see ourselves at the likes of the San Siro, the Nou Camp, etc while (hopefully) destroying top-class opposition at the Lane. Lovely.
At risk of reducing thousands of grown men to tears again, only hours after some of us stopped weeping with joy, have a look at this, truly beautiful...blub...blub....blurhurrrr
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tZ6AleCouk