Sunday
Mar142010
4th or FA Cup?
Sunday, March 14, 2010 at 6:13PM FA Cup = immediate silverware, club shop dvd, another chapter written into the history books
4th = CL
CL = more money, better players
More money, better players = possible title challenge
Title challenge = top 4 placement every season
Top 4 placement every season = CL every season
CL every season = even more money, even better players
Even more money, even better players = sustained title challenges
Sustained title challenges = potentially lots of silverware
Simplified, I know. Qualifying one season for the CL doesn't mean there's a guarantee you'll be in it the following. But that's a defeatist attitude. Anyways, to answer my own question:
Both.
Reader Comments (95)
Like players like Lennon, Palacios and Modric? Winning the FA cup won't keep their eyes from wandering.. Only giving them a chance in the biggest tourney matters. It's the nature of pro athletes to yearn to test themselves at the highest level.
I'm still trying to work out how old margate is.....??????????
Winning the FA Cup ( a devalued competition in the 21st century, sorry you romantics) is nice, and is indeed a trophy won. CL qualification SIGNIFICANTLY increases our chances of a) retaining Lennon and Modric and b) attracting top talent from the WORLD CUP. Anyone on here believing that an FA Cup win is going to attract top international players is naive. Until we attract and retain the best players we will never win the league . The fact we are in the qualifying round of the CL will give us a far greater chance of retaining Lennon and Modric. If we get knocked out so be it, the transfer window will be closed by then! And as a season ticket holder I hate Thursday night and Sunday 3pm games.
Both would be brilliant, but 4th is more important surely
If we want to bring in better players and just as critical hang on to those already there its got to be 4th hasn't it? However its a sad turn of events when finishing 4th is better than wining the FA Cup, fortunately its not an either or situation lets go all out for both, Spurs deserve at least one of them.
Both.
Yid Army!
u spurs deluded donkeys, dont get too ahead of urselves ,spurs r just overachieving at the moment and by reaching end of season u will end up somewhere 8-9th which is the place ur medicore club suits and belong to and i m not taking a piss at u for proof just look at past seasons
Yawn
FA Cup or 4th- Both: Here's how:
1. Avoid the Marriott
2. Practice penalties
3. Pav = match game penalty taker. Bale if his benched.
4. Stuff Citeh away.
5. Feed the players ephedrine enhanced lasagne.*
*Only kidding - winners don't take drugs...! : )
HA HA HA !!!!!!!! bloody deluded cunts ,u will get neither!!! lol!
Very good. Posting under 2 different usernames. I can see your ip address.
Question. Who won the Italian Cup last season? German? Spanish? French?
Exactly. Winning a domestic cup is a great achievement within your own country but in the rest of Europe and the world it's no more than a passing announcement.
Playing in the Champions League would raise the profile of the club to a new level. Suddenly we would be thought of as one of England's elite and the effect this could have on transfers/income/profile is huge.
That being said there is a hell of a lot of work to do and to achieve either would be great.
To those saying we aren't ready....what? How else can you get ready than by getting experience in the competition? Even if we went out in the group stage that's 6 games under our belt, getting exposure all the time. Absolute no brainer for me.
.to -
Very good. Posting under 2 different usernames. I can see your ip address.
Mar 15, 2010 at 12:25 AM | spooky
idiot , everything is in name. lol !!!!!!!!
Whatever competition you're in you should be in it to win it. I take nothing away from the CC win, but let's get real, winning the Europa League is better. Yes the FA Cup would be sweet, but CL is better. Which do you think is going to generate more money for Spurs? It's CL, all the way and if we manage top 4, Levy will get more on a shirt deal than he ever will if we win the FA Cup. The stage is so much larger. FA Cup games are generally on pay per view, or subscription channels in the rest of the world. CL games are usually on basic cable. Minimal expectation so far as I'm concerned is Europe by table position. That means we can always maintain a large enough squad to compete in 4 competitions each year, and most importantly, means that you're in the running for the top 4 every year. No, it's not easy, and will likely require a top 4 side to falter, but if we'd have just not dropped the 21 needless points this year, we'd be in first. Isn't the real goal to win the PL? When will Spurs fans stop accepting lesser results. We don't have to spend like City, we just need to spend smarter. Lennon, Bale, Modric, and others don't need 180,000 a week to stick around, but they do need to be able to play in the best competitions possible and to have a chance to win. If the fans don't have ambition, why should the organization? FA Cup and CC, we're in every year. When was the last time we qualified for the CL? What are we waiting for? COYS - 9 more wins and we're likely in CL and win FA Cup. That's ambition and that's what I hope HR and the players expect.
There is no either or here. I say give 100% effort to both venues, and let the chips fall where they may. Also, don’t give a flying fook to what other teams’ boneheads are saying cause their opinions are as tangible as a fart in the wind.
what i would really like to see is the stadium get moving as that is the one thing that will keep Spurs in contention. CL / FA Cup is flash in the pan potentially but the Stadium will allow Spurs to compete financially year in year out. as much as i hate to say it the Goons are now reaping the rewards of there new ground and after a few years of belt tightening they are now rapidly moving forward cash wise. Chelsea / City are reliant on an owner to subsidize there spending that wont always be the case where as manure and the goons are self reliant thats the footing we should be aiming for to guarantee we can keep knocking on the door at least
cheers margate, i was minus 7 , but ill leave you with this thought, if we do qualify and make to the knock out stages against real madrid or inter, i wonder if you will be still thinking how great the fa cup is.
why the fuck are we even discussing which one.. we are capable of acheiving both. so pointless topic in my opinion!!! COYS
I can't believe what I am seeing from from half the idiots on here
I have supported Spurs since my first home game as a four year old in 1969,we are on the verge of champions league football and some of you want the FA cup more.Football is all about progression,league two trying to get to league one league one the championship,progress ,being better being stronger,two years ago Portsmouth won the FA cup ! sure its a great competition don't get me wrong I was there in 81 when Ricky scored and the memory of that goal and Steve Perryman lifting the cup is one of my greatest ever,its a great day out and winning at Wembley is pure magic but with the team we are shaping up to be we are destined for even greater things
I want to see us in the San Siro and other great stadiums where we belong with Europes football giants
As has already been said, 4th place = champions league attracts players more revenue etc and Spurs will need the money if we are going to have a new ground as well
COYS
FA Cup is necessary since we have made it this far.
CL spot is going to be tough to muster, but we can pull it off. Can we do it with style and grace though? I don't know if I can bear Tottenham being the laughing stock of the CL and regarded as "punching above their weight".
But then again, I would love for us to make it and poo on the Arse's parade!
Cheeky question Spooky! COYS!
4th = remember everton
remember everton = no silverware, no title chalenge, no better players
I do believe we would go a step further than them tho.
We will not do an Everton, that's for bloody sure. Everton got to the CL because Pool were shit and Moyes is probably one of the most astute managers in the game. We have a decent manager, but we also have a lot more money, and a chairman who isn't afraid to write cheques. I'll buy a bloody FA Cup DVD if it means I get to see the likes of Messi and Ribery at the Lane, but I sincerely hope I won't have to.
FOURTH! I want Fourth place EVEN MORE than I want champions league (I know they are linked). Who remembers who won the FA Cup in 2005? Any football fan MUST surely want their team to get better and better and better. We haven't finished in the top four since around 1990! You can count many teams that have done that since then. Are they better than us? Are Leeds, Blackburn better than us? No, so we should be able to finish that highly too. Winning the FA Cup does not show that you are improving. Besides, with Arsenal, Man U and Liverpool no longer trying to win it seriously, the FA Cup has been cheapened. Winning the cup in 1991 meant something, winning now doesn't mean that much these days. Chase Fourth all the way - obviously try to win the cup - and we have been lucky to have the easier draw all the way - but priority is to chase 4th.
YidDownUnder - How can it be a pointless topic if we have 3 pages of discussion? Obviously we want it all, but the argument is if you have an FA Cup match and a tough league match in same week, with Ledley king, Tom Huddlestone and say Modric only able to play in one of those games due to fitness problems, which game to you put them in? Remember last season when we played the weakened team in the UEFA cup because the league was a priority?
Those silly gooners who are on this site should go back to the shit hole where they came from. North london scum hahaha DONT MAKE US LAUGH YOUR THE TEAM WHO WERE ELECTED INTO THE OLD LEAUGE 1 . We along with most worked our way up so dont forget that you scum Gooner.......... Every time you open your gob it smells of SHIT........ What goes around comes around so we will have our day ok tosser.
Right now i have put that twat in his place we can shut the toilet seat hahahaha! Spurs have a great history and now the foundations to relive the Sixties and power on back to the top of the pile..... The Yid army will show the rest in the next two seasons not to take the piss, as i say look at the mighty scousers this year !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We will crack top four very soon either this year or next, so watch your backs you stupid little shits. Harry is the main man and will now be head hunted but will stay put to redeem the right respect we deserve.
Two great teams in north London Yid army, And little old Barnet so goons fuck off !!!!
Breaking the pattern, every season is what we need to be doing. Us, Villa, City, Everton. The more of the monopoly that fall out of the top 4 the better. We could enter a state of flux whilst a new order is formed - and in the mean time, we might see 4-5 clubs fighting for 3rd and 4th.
Good debate this. For me, the CL would just take it. The FA cup would be wonderful of course. It would be a great day and would give anything to win it. But then next season we are back to square one. With the CL we have midweek exciting fixtures to look forward to. Hopefully we wouldn't just enter it and get turned over in the group stages or the qualifying round before the actual start. I would love to see us get to the knockout stages and have some of the bigger boys fearing us. Obviously this is fantasy land right now but it's good to dream.
With the people saying CL is useless and more detremental in the long run, what do you hope from the league each season? That we will win it? That it means nothing? That we are a cup team and nothing else? The CL gives us a platform to be noticed by the masses and was why at 17:45 yesterday I was sitting with my arse hanging off the sofa hoping Sunderland kept out City.
I for one am loving the fact this debate actually exists. This shows we are progressing. I'm loving this season so far and cannot wait for it to conclude hopefully with a trophy and/or CL qualification.
COYS!
As much as I love the FA Cup (and I remember it well the last time we won it) I agree with those who say that times have changed. It's more than outshone by the CL now. Back then we were one of the Big Five, and Chelsea were just a Second Division outfit whose best players were Kerry Dixon and David Speedie. We're not one of the Big Four and a CL spot will help seal that. The top players all say they want to play in the CL, so to attract them we have to offer it.
BUT - if we did get there, we would have to manage it very carefully and spend on expanding the squad as well as improving it. There are a shitload of extra fixtures to fit in, all of them needing our best players, so to sustain a run in the CL as well as ensure we get there the following season we need two top notch players in every position and then some. That's a heck of a spend, and with Levy seeming to indicate the cupboard is bare then we may end up doing an Everton quite easily.
In conclusion - CL for me IF it's managed properly. I think some of the Big Four aren't taking the FA Cup quite as seriously which demeans the whole thing. Great memories, great tournament, but we really need to stop looking at the 1960s as our best period and create some new history. And we can do it.
Quite honestly I think it's an age thing with our fans. Do the younger (under 30's) ache for CL?
Personally I've seen great days/nights (and shite ones too) in the 70's & 80's and beyond. So to me the FA Cup is STILL a prestigios goal. I can't believe how some here seem to belittle it and clamour for a tournament that if any has been totally prostituted (by Blatter, Platini, etc) in the last 18 years in its current format.
Admittedly the FA Cup has been tarnished by teams attitude to chasing money in Europe and around the globe in recent years.
But the Champions League (an oxymoron in itself) is more about money than glory. The game now is more about ticket sales than trophies? I feel old and lost.
I hate the Champions League but recognise it as an evil that we have to live with as there is too much money in the game now.
In saying that I want both. The heart and ethos of our club demands it.
i wonder how everyone will feel if we get into CL and have to juggle it against the league + 2 domestic cups. Will everyone be happy to see harry field younger teams back home in the domestic cups (as the other CL teams do) in order to keep a strong team for the CL. How would everyone then feel if we go out of the CL and are already out of the domestic cups because we played a bunch of yooof players etc etc?
I def would love to see the club participate next year in the CL - its a must. I just wonder how people may feel if we go out, and have no cups back home to fall back on.
That said, what a wicked year we are having - lets keep going all the Wembley and maintaining our current league position. So to answer Spookys question, we should be able to do both this year, 12 games to go and we are bang in form with a host of talent to return to the starting 11.
In Arry i trust....................COYS.
Is Bale a better player than Lennon?
For the moment Bale is an extraordinary player coming back from a hard period in his career.
the question is , how strong would we be if we had to flying wingers and a confident natural goalscorer ... i d say very strong.
CL would cut it for me , it is all about the money and CL is the fast lane for that. But that's just my realistic self , my football loving self thinks 4 th doesnt add up to real silverware ...
at the moment I would say bale is doing the same as lennon, but I actually prefer bales end delivery. I hope lennon returns in the coming couple of weeks so we can unleash the pair of em on pompey at Wembley.........hopefully!
As of right now, Spurs cannot give up on FA just yet for two reasons; first, we cannot give it to Fulham fookers, and second, we must not lose to Pompey and be unbearable ridiculed for years to come that we lost at Wembley to a club that in the very year entered Administration and is relegated from PL. Everyone who says otherwise has no pride in being a Spur fan.
"Until City get CL footy, there is always the chance that players sign for the cash, like Adebayour, and therefore a chance that they will not kick on to become a real top team. If they get it right then we will struggle to compete and will have to hope Chelsea/Utd/Goons decline"..... Mar 14, 2010 at 7:07 PM | Devonshirespur
As loony as this may currently seem, Utd. are the biggest wackeln candidate. Two years from now and it'll be just one Manchester team battling with two London teams for the number two spot!
Beautifully put Mr Yidden Agenda. You are indeed a wise man. Then again i would say that as I'm iin the demographic you refer too. Mid forties!!!!
Both COYS
Whilst I don't think there is a reason why we can't go for both, if I really had to choose between the two - it would have to be 4th.
My main reason for saying this is the fact that we will be more likely to keep our best players (as well as attracting better ones).
I think the likes of Lennon, Bale, Modric and Defoe would definitely not be tempted by a "bigger club" if we were to qualify for the Champions League. I don't think the same thing can be said if we won the FA cup.
Personally I really don't care that much either way.
The way the team is playing is important for me and that every game is played with passion, teamwork and skill. At the moment I am very happy with the way the team is performing so I am not really worried where we end up in the league or in the Cup. If we don't get either I will feel hard done by, but I'll get over it, I know Spurs played some excellent football this season even in some games they lost. And I got a real feeling the team is actually making progress.
But of course that wasn't really an answer to the question. So let me ask you this, what is better proof of our acomplisments, a knock-out cup trophy or 4th place?
The FA cup competition which, despite all it's prestige, is down to a certain amount of luck, depends on the teams day to day form, players available, the opponents you run into on the way, referee decisions and other circumstantial factors? Just to prove how random the winner of the Cup can be, let's not forget, the FA Cup was last won by Portsmouth. Great if the outsider wins it, but did that make Portsmouth best of breed? hardly.
Becoming 4th in the league requires months of hard work, pushing to be the best week in week out, dealing with set backs, a long term strategy, it also moulds a squad and the character of players arguably more than a knock-out competition. Some people say 'nobody remembers who comes fourth' but you got a damn better prospect of ever winning the title if you break into the top four first.
I am sure the Cup, or any silverware means a lot to the players, but then by the time they won the thing they will still look out for a team playing the CL.
Win the Cup, let the players players have a real party, publish that DVD, and then watch as your best players queue up to join the other teams that will be playing in the CL next season.
On the other hand, if you make it into the top four you may well find that some talented, good value players from other clubs may consider joining just to play against the best teams in Europe.
That may sound sad and depressing, especially because Spurs have often been on the receiving end of that logic, but it is nevertheless the reality.
Some worry about "Doing an Everton" and about how we would do in Europe and that they may never make it out of the group stages and all this... well that is just the nature of the beast. And this being Spurs it will probably be painful...
To dare is to do, and to take part in the Worlds most prestigious competition of all is what the club needs to be involved in, the sooner the better.
Given a choice, it has to be 4th. Everyone loves The Cup, but the CL is where it's at.
There was a comment on page 1 I think, quoting Bill Nick: 'if we're not in Europe we're nothing'.
I'm pretty sure that if he was alive today to see what a complete shambles the UEFA cup has become, Europe, as he meant it, would now only relate to the Champions League.
We're the 15th richest club in the world supposedly, yet ask most young football fans in Europe who Spurs or Tottenham are and they won't have a clue. Some of these young fans will grow up to be the same people who we'll want to sign for our club in the future.
We need to create a whole new 'glory' era and this cannot be done by winning the odd FA cup. The name 'Tottenham Hotspur' needs to be once again a household name among football fans throughout Europe, with TV, the world.
I keep changing my mind. CL for me. At least for today. Ask me again tomorrow. We have to be as good as the clubs above us thus we have to do as they do. And that's play in Europe at the very top level. There is no question here to be answered. FA Cup? Bonus. CL? The goal for any club with aspirations.
having read through every word, there are compelling reasons on both sides of the argument. I personally will be overjoyed if we achieve either and will probably die from shock if we achieve both....however, taking everything into consideration, i think there are a couple key considerations that tip me in favourof 4th place....and they are largely down to timing:
(1) Liverpool are in turmoil. Rafa looks like a dead man walking. Their squad is not the best and their finances are pretty poor too. Failure to get 4th place to them will be catastrophic. Sacking Rafa alone will cost £16m, apparently. The loss of about £30m of CL TV money on top of that will really have a massive impact on them. They will have to sell. Effectively they will need to rebuild and that will set them back years. If we get 4th that means LFC don't and that is good long term news for Spurs (and other rivals).
(2) Man City have more money than we can all imagine. Until they gain CL football, they will only ever attract players playing for cash....Kaka tunred them down, more money offered but he wanted CL and the prestige of playing for Real....Many others would do the same, except for those motivated by cash. Look at Barry....screwed Villa saying he wanted CL footy and then signed for City. Adebayour left CL footy at Arsenal , looking for m ore money. Robinho?? not sure what his motivation is/was.
If they gain CL footy, there will be nothing to stop them as they can offer everything and will be able to attract the best. If they made top 4 I am sure Torres/Gerrard would consider joining. Without CL, no way!
If we gain 4th then we prevent LFC and Citeh from doing so and in the long term this is much better for us. We can attract even better players which in turn gives us a better chance of doing better in the League, CC Cup and FA Cup in the future.....future glory.
While The FA Cup is a fundamental part of the tradition of our great club, this year is almost a unique opportunity to take a giant step forward. Only the CL qualification will enable that step to be taken. It is unique mainly because of the circumstances of others. If we miss it then in future maybe the FA Cup is the best we can hope for, unless we get arab owners.
One final thought. We are seeking new sponsors and a stadium sponsor (which will fund a massive chunk of construction). If we make CL that could make difference between a decent and a massive sponsorship deal. WHile money is not everything, we need as much as we can get to be able to compete.
DotTriffics, what are you doing messing about with Deer?
The RSPCA monitor (not the lizard) websites you know!
What a question? It's fourth place offcourse , the people who say we beter go for FA Cup are obviously secret Liverpool fans ? Fourth place means we can attract better players the summer transfer period , more money no matter if we get in the stages.FA Cup ? This is just an competition with some romantic meanings but we - the generations of loyal Spurs supporters always wanted to see Spurs finishing at 4th spot (in Premiership).
FA Cup is nothing but to cure someone pride.But i say lets win both.
COYS.