N17: Home is where the heart is
Friday, November 19, 2010 at 11:48AM There's been plenty of debate and opinion in the past few days, spurned on in addition by David Lammy (Tottenham MP) who revealed via Twitter that Daniel Levy is serious about the Stratford bid. Well he's hardly not going to be serious is he? Of course he's serious. Levy is a business man and his responsibility is to THFC, unequivocally and unquestionable. Although the health and financial clout of ENIC is also of utmost importance. A new stadium would equate to our overall value quadrupling and some. It's about revenue and we have a power-house of a fan base, just not enough seats at the minute.
We all know this redevelopment and approval lark has dragged on and on, even though the reality is - it's just been going through the standard application process. Seems like we're all now tap dancing around the last hurdle. A substantial amount of work has gone into the vision and re-designs of the Northumberland Redevelopment Project. The question marks have always been about the transport links and traffic issues getting in and out of N17. Which is apparently one reason why moving to Stratford is a viable option. No more walking up Tottenham High Road rushing for the bus. Or leaving the game ten minutes early (that's for all the West Standers amongst you) and missing a late <insert promoted side here> winner.
Okay, so there are countless facets to this for and against argument. And plenty has been said already (mostly from the three stooges over in Green Street) about how we would not be allowed to uproot and move from one Borough to another (hey, if we did, we'd be so close to them lot they'll have a right to call us their rivals and it would mean something…derby matches against Orient would be guaranteed sell-outs. If they ever got themselves into the Prem that is).
I've even heard that Boris himself (a week or so away from announcing his approval/disapproval of the Northumberland project) invited Spurs to bid for Stratford. Supposedly because we would be far more beneficial to the area and the Olympic stadium in terms of fan base, money and stature. Sub-plots about running tracks and concerts don't sit well with me. But if there is no running track and the stadium could be touched up to include even more seats etc etc - financially, it would be the easier option to take/be given. Purely from the perspective of progression and cost. If we're talking about the club as a business entity. Far fewer headaches and possibly far more accommodating politically.
Haringey are tiresome and draining and it would seem not fully appreciative that without the club all they would have left in Tottenham is that quite wonderful kebab house just past the Paxton Rd and on the opposite side of the high road where they wrap up your chips in pita bread. Probably not worth a visit every other week if there's no dessert to feast on just after 3pm. However, they've approved the plans regardless.
Back to Levy. At the time that Spurs officially bid (confirmed their interest) in the Olympic Stadium, I was advised this was astute and shrewd of Mr Chairman. Covering all bases. Think about it. We have plans to knock down and build a brand spanking new stadium just to the side of WHL. It would aid in the regeneration of the surrounding area. The local council know this. All the reports and surveys and various must haves (i.e. the listed buildings) are simply standard hurdles. The final one is where Boris now stands, but he wont be the one jumping, just rubber-stamping. All the tap dancing being had is by us, the press, West Ham, MP's and journalists.
Levy had to declare interest in Stratford because if the NRP was rejected, we'd be stuck with our 36,000 capacity. We might still be stuck in Tottenham if there's an uproar and riots back in East London, a few miles from the border into the North. Sullivan with staff screaming, you shall not pass. The Lilywhite Balrog defeated. Karren Brady at the time made a big deal of Levy not telling her about it, presumably via Facebook. She misses the point like many. It's not about her or her poxy little club or anybody outside of THFC. It's about Tottenham Hotspur. And I applaud Levy for his tunnelled focus on making sure that whatever happens no rock is left unturned. Because the risk of ending up with nothing would be a disaster.
Levy, at his Machiavellian best you might say, could have initially used Stratford to pressure Haringey. But its gone to the Mayor so there is very little to be gained from political blackmail and at the end of the day, if there existed a third option he'd have probably gone after that with equalled motivation. Boris might do what's best for London or he might just opt to give us what we want. Levy is continuing on both fronts because he would be wholly unprofessional if he didn't. One thing is for certain, unlike us - he's not split in the middle. Levy knows what is best - from his perspective - for the club. Deep down. Everything he does, we question and attempt to second guess and decipher. Patience, not much of a virtue.
This is where it gets fragmented. If you had to guess, which way would you go?
What side of the fence do you sit on?
On the one hand you could argue that Tottenham, it's essence, is the fans. We are the club. We get charged up to £50 - £70 per game for the privilege, but it's still all about us (although modern football is making the majority more and more disposable and replaceable with each passing decade). Some clubs, if they upped and moved would not need to offer cut-price tickets to re-generate a buzz. Although there still remains a risk of a curse not too dissimilar to the one Man City fans find themselves in.
We're the heart of the club. No matter where we are you could argue we would perceiver and make the most of it. If we moved away from N17, the club and its traditions would move with us. Sentimental, romantic notions of 'our patch' and the Glory Glory nights under the floodlights at the Lane - will remain strong in our history, and never be forgotten. We still lose WHL if we rebuild just next to it. So what difference moving a few miles away? It's not like we're moving from South London to North London? We'll just be moving the THFC franchise a few miles up the road. No need for a breakaway club. No change of name. Agree? Disagree? FC Hotspur of Tottenham anyone?
So up the road. To the Gardens of Babylon of East London. So what of the area?
Quite a number of European clubs have their grounds in not so glamorous surroundings. I guess moving from Tottenham to Stratford wouldn't make that much of a difference either way. Although Stratford will have some trees so obviously it's going to be prettier. I lived for some time in Leyton, stones throw from Stratford. Anyone know this part of the world? Allow me to describe it to you. There is a tradition for local residents to throw their broken tv sets and old and stained bed mattresses outside in the street. In fact, any old rubbish, just dump it outside because someone will pick it up.
Gang warfare from teenagers with knives to the East Europeans, muggings, killings, drunken fights in the streets, pockets of poverty and run down buildings aplenty. A lack of respect. It's a bit like moving from Basrah to Baghdad. Or say, I don't know, from Tottenham to Stratford. Hmm.
People from that part of the world might think I'm being harsh, but I'm just picking up on the bad things that outweigh the good. Much like you would for N17. Both, personally, from the perspective of living there, are hardly paragons of beauty to look at. But then in regards to Spurs, the high road is something you walk down to get to the ground. It's not the reason for going to Tottenham. WHL is.
It's all fairly redundant. Most parts of London are rundown, unless we decided to build a stadium in the middle of Knightsbridge.
So who gives a f*ck where the stadium sits when all that matters is what goes on inside it?
We are Tottenham. That's all that matters. Right?
If Spurs and Levy genuinely believe we will be paralysed in parts with the transport aspect (would cost billions to extend the Victoria Line) of staying in N17 (the only negative long term issue worthy of discussion, well that and the 'just under 60,000 capacity') then I'll have to suck it up. Spurs will be around long after I'm gone. But as colourful as all the rhetoric is from all corners and taking in all the pros and cons of going or staying - I'm going to go with my heart. Because that's how I follow football. Gut feelings.
I will be shocked and surprised if Boris doesn't give the green light.
I will be shocked and surprised if Levy's vision, his priority, is not to stay in North London.
I will be shocked and surprised if the whole progress and process of submitting and re-designing the Northumberland Redevelopment Project that came with the hardly unsurprising initial rejections and demands of change has forced Levy into changing his focus from North to East Northish East London.
I will be shocked and surprised if after all this, Levy always knew that the cost of building a stadium in N17 would have a detrimental effect on the club in terms of transfers in and out long term and that the real ruse was the project and thus the real target was Stratford.
We could be here all day drowning deep in conspiracy theories and agendas (is Lammy tweeting for his own personal gains to look good or is he being played by Levy or are they both in on it? See what I mean?)
My heart says we don't want to move and there is very little chance of Boris rejecting it and that the fact its got as far as being sent to his office for final approval means that its practically done and dusted. IMO.
Tottenham Hotspur, the experience, it's match-day traditions and its soul is in the heart of N17, Tottenham. It's home. Even with the police signs calling for witnesses littering the high road and the distinct lack of pretty buildings. It's home. The pubs and the long walk down from Seven Sisters. The ridiculous queues to get a train from White Hart Lane station into Liverpool Street post-match. None of it actually matters. And yet it does. But then who cares as long as Spurs win?
It's our territory. It's our land. Just for one or two days every couple of weeks.
Sentimental, I guess I am after all. Stratford would feel like an away day, detached from the past. For a while perhaps. And having just under 60,000 in N17 would make the various queues even longer. But personally, I'd rather have the atmosphere of having the majestic swashbuckle of our club in a derelict area than moving outside of the place we are named after into the heartland of Orient and West Ham United.
A derelict area with a shiny new polished stadia in the middle of it.
If I lack ambition or perhaps allowing sentimentality to cloud my judgement, sorry. My heart rules. If Levy or you think otherwise then so be it.
And I guess my heart is also telling me I'm a traditionalist. If it was good enough for Bill Nicholson to live up the road from, then its good enough for me to travel to from my humble village dwellings just outside the M25 in Essex. To be honest I still have issues with losing White Hart Lane (the ground and it's name), so the sucking up I'll have to do to deal with a move to Stratford would have to take on epic proportions for me to accept it. But accept I'll have to. Sir Bill would not have wanted the club to stand still. Aim high.
It's about revenue. But foremost, in its purist form, it's about football. It should be. And it should be about us. The fans. The 'club'. So what do you want?
If we're progressing as a football club will it matter where the new chapter is being written?
I guess the crux of it is, either way, whatever happens, no matter which side of the fence you sit - no matter the final decision - you will move on. No matter the loyalties sacrificed. We'll move on. Together. With the club. As one.
Reader Comments (175)
So its all about getting it done nice and quickly rather taking time to build something that will sit there in all it's majesty for another 100 odd years?
I'd rather wait for the time it takes to dig the ground up.
'I have, I suppose, been considering the possibility of something we might call chronological resonance within the city itself. Just as it seems possible to me that a street or dwelling can materially affect the character and behaviour of the people who dwell in them, is it not also possible that within this city and within its culture are patterns of sensibility or patterns of response which have persisted from the 13th and 14th centuries and perhaps even beyond? Does the passage of the city through time create its own energies that exert a pressure upon our perceptions and our understandings, which is all the more powerful for being normally overlooked?
Some might think of it as constricting, but for me it is liberating - as liberating as the return home after a long period in another country. There is such a thing as homesickness, after all; it is the need for belonging, for continuity. And what greater or more enduring home can we have than the culture which has created us? The truth is that if we lose sight of our city - if we lose sight of our inheritance - then we lose sight of our own selves as well.'
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/cockney-visionaries-1468288.html
I'm from Tottenham, and I live there now. I went to Risley Avenue School, and I played under the great oak in Bruce Castle Park. I gambolled in the terraced fountains (long gone!) in Lordship Rec..
Some places are sacred. Behind ugly facades along the High Road there is holiness in the stones. Why? Because location has meaning. I can be taken out of Tottenham, but Tottenham can't be taken out of me.
These places - and the club - were the achors of my youth, the pivots around which my early life spun. Standing in my garden, I would hear the roar from the crowd at WHL when we scored or came close. That was in the old days, when standing was allowed and there were many more voices to cheer on the Lilywhites.
It would break my heart if the club quit Tottenham - but what is a heart for, if not to break? And from that hallowed soil perhaps something / somethings wonderful would emerge, birthed and shaped by the same spirit of place, reverence and 'derring-do' that made WHL unique.
In human history, sometimes whole capitals are moved from one part of the country to another. People survive, memories die, new memories are made, fresh traditions sprung. If Spurs go to Stratford it will be because it makes financial, business and professional sense. The human, existential stuff will be ours, as fans, to wade through. But wade through it we will. We might even come to like it.
Top discussion lads.
One question you all need to ask yourselves is this:
How much would the club be worth after the stadium is built in NL and how much would it be worth after it was built in Stratford?
Sell on value. It's what ENIC will do. Build the club to have the best stadium and training facilities and CL statue, then sell it for untold millions +.
Levy is a business man who has embraced football but in his heart its business.
The more I think about the less likely I think a club like West Ham deserve the area around Stratford. Would be wasted on a yo yo club.
Beautiful Desktop. I think deep down most of us are aware of this and will have to endure the change if it comes. I'm sure that if we moved, the plans for the new stadium would be enriched with age old Spurs traditions to help soothe over the hurt.
The non-believers will find themselves nodding with approval at the new designs. The stands will be traditional and close to the pitch. Being what we are, proud and passionate, we'd make ample noise inside and all will be good. And over time, perhaps generations we'll make new match day traditions and the old, from back in the day at the Lane, N17, will be remembered and past into legend.
But having said all that, if 60,000 can make it to WHL - be it with traffic - but make it they do, then I'll happily suffer for it to remain in N17.
I still think Boris will rubber stamp it.
Yes Killjoy, it is about getting things done nice and quickly. It's about doing things that are in the best interests of the club for the long term future. A long term future that is going to be put into doubt if the club is saddled with additional 10's of millions pounds of debt through unecessary costs and delays. Debt that will reduce the transfer budget, wages and ability to attract the best players for many years to come. Surely you want Spurs to be the best that they can, rather than settling for a position amongst the also rans in the second tier of European football?
Move to Stratford? I'd rather move to Woolwich.
Thanks Nayim for making the costs clear, I hadn't realised we would knock down the Olympic stadium and build a new one. And Desktop that was a wonderful way of putting it.
Sounds like the Stratford project, even with tearing own the stadium, will save us millions of pounds compared to Northumberland Park, someone put the figure at £200m.
We have to think not only about tradition but our ability to compete for the next 10 years. The Arse have been unable to spend much on players for the last 5 years because they have been paying for their stadium. Any new stadium outlay will have a major impact on our ability to attract top talent... if there is a way of saving £200m, it might mean the difference between us being able to buy the next generation of Modric and Van der Vaarts.
If Spurs did move and, for arguments sake, did not keep the Tottenham moniker on the basis they are not a Tottenaham based club what affinity is there? In a few seasons the team and the manager would all change. Enic could sell for the profit so many are pointing out we stand to make from this....do we still have an affinity? When the new owners decide to appoint a sporting psycological analyst who determines the most successful clubs in the league wear red and the new owners decide to redo the team colours as part of Stratford Spurs' new beggining...do we still have that affinity, is it still our club?
There is very little that will remain constant in life and football, but Tottenham will always be Tottenham, as long as we are in Tottenham...anything else just isn't Tottenham.
Sounds like the Stratford project, even with tearing own the stadium, will save us millions of pounds compared to Northumberland Park, someone put the figure at £200m.
The above is why I think Spookys gut feeling is wrong. Sorry Spooks. I don't want to move out of Tottenham. But I think we will.
The idea that the club will no longer be called "Tottenham Hotspur FC" if we move the ground 6 miles across town is utterly preposterous. The new stadium won't be called "White Hart Lane" for sure but then neither will the one in the NLP. Us fans can call it whatever we want amongst ourselves.
But for how long Neyim, how long?
By the way, I'm at the pub creamsoap (or whatever you call yourself). Do come and join me... cunt !!
Haven't posted for a while but I can't stay out of this one. One or two of you have touched on the very elements that define a club and it's supporters. 100 years in North London has made us who we are in terms of fans of THFC and shared experiences. It's not something that's tangible when you start comparing it to transfer money and debt and what the progress of the club will be over the next 5-15 years. But it's what makes you who you are.
If you were born in England and lived here till say the age of 10 then got drafted out to the USA where you lived till your 30's odds are you'll be a yank in the way you talk and the way you think. It's not the best analogy I know but when you move a club like Spurs and strip all the physical stuff away (like the ground and the area the ground is in) you are left with its history and traditions but it's the fans that hold the club together and over time I think the clubs identity will change.
This might be evolution and it might be the way to better ourselves but I think the pro-NL fans should be cut some slack here. To be uprooted and potentially lose a chunk of our identity - it's a massive gamble that could have many supporters left disillusioned.
Football is what matters at the end of the day. And I think we'd turn into a superpower before long if we moved to Stratford but at the same time would the NLP ever been touted around and sent in for approval if ENIC had not looked into the figures and worked out the impact of the club over the next decade?
Levy himself has said we would take our time when referring to the champs league. He wouldn't risk the club by splashing out for the sake of it.
Staying in N17 and taking the brunt of the issues highlighted I'd say would be the ultimate act of loyalty.
I need to see more about the Stratford proposition, but to see it would mean the NLP has been rejected.
Spooky suggested 'The Bill Nicholson' Stadium a while back. I'm sure plenty of yiddos have thought of this. Would be happy with this.
There is very little that will remain constant in life and football, but Tottenham will always be Tottenham, as long as we are in Tottenham...anything else just isn't Tottenham.
WELL PUT END OF STORY.
Daniel Levy: "We have always maintained that we wouldn't undertake any project that could undermine the overall financial stability and future success of the Club and this shall remain our guiding principle going forward and in determining our best option in the interests of the Club and all its fans and stakeholders."
To me, that statement makes any stadium option that saves us £m's a fairly sensible bet. In this economic climate ANY new stadium is a big risk, and we are not yet an established Champions League club so revenues are not guaranteed.
Both stadium ideas represent potential growth, but not before a huge outlay. Levy is a businessman, he will be very attracted by a site that saves us millions as long as he doesn't think it will alienate a large section of the fans. And we will have the opportunity to let him know how we feel I'm sure.
The name of the stadium (either, any new stadium) will be sold to the highest bidder. There is too much money at stake for this not to be the case. However, we can refer to it as the "Bill Nicholson Stadium" or whatever else we like, regardless of it's official moniker.
I have no great desire to see us leave N17. However, it would be folly not to consider the benefits of an alternative site. The decision that is made is something that will determine and shape the fortunes of the club for the next hundred years. Our desire for tradition and history, however admirable, must be tempered with the financial implications and repurcussions that it will incur.
We have a once in a lifetime opportunity to push the club forwards and realise ambtions that have hitherto been seen as the preserve of other, "bigger" (how I hate that term") clubs. We owe it to the future generations of fans to make the right decision for them as well and not just a short-sighted desire to do what pleases us most, here & now.
There'll always be a Tottenham for as long as we what there to be. But will it be a Tottenham with a future or glory or of regrets for what could have been?
Suddenly Stratford becomes an option when before it was just the Northumberland Redev Project. Which was at the time just about fine for all concerned.
If it wasn't an option would we not still push ahead with the project in N17?
Rubbish Nayim.
Ask any original Wimbledon fan their opinion of MK Dons?
Well you may say it’s 6 miles and not 50 miles so you cannot compare and Wimbledon were done in at the time financially. A move out of Tottenham is a move-end of.
If the club is not in Tottenham it ain't Tottenham... Simples
I would rather be in league one than fucking relocate to the East End.
All that will have gone before will eventually die guaranteed 100%.
You may see in the future Sky Sports playing clips of our heroes lifting the cup but it will be a complete contradiction, it will not be Tottenham Hotspur in the future, you will be brainwashed to think so (short term only though!).
Imagine MK Dons in the Premiership now and highlights of their upcoming fixture against Liverpool on Sky? Do you think they would show clips of Wimbledon’s FA Cup triumph and cheeky Dennis Wise celebrating? No of course not, most MK Dons fans are from MK and don’t give a F... about Wimbledon or their past loyal fans and old hero players who all now support AFC.
Memories are made from the present and the future. 99.9% of hard core traditionalist Spurs fans will not accept the move including myself after 36 years.
The future is Stratford Hotspur and that just ain’t Tottenham.
Be careful what you wish for Spurs fans it will be the end as you know it and life would never feel the same again.
Watch the season ticket waiting list collapse and in years to come Stratford Hotspur will be in majority a whole new breed of premiership football fan whores with no passion of the history.
Myself my children and future generations will not grow up supporting such a franchise - period.
I here certain individuals (mainly youths with no history) stating that regardless of where Spurs are located we need the move to grow etc etc and become a force.
Well we are not doing bad job with 36,000 at the moment and the NRP would be 56,000 imagine!!
Let me make an example Gary Mabbutt , Glen Hoddle, Danny Blanchflower, jimmy Greaves and all the other legends will they then become Straford Hotspur legends?
NO!!
Ask Vinny Jones if he is a MK Dons legend?
Go on I dare you!!!
No to Tottinghamization please please.
I repeat - Be careful what you wish for Spurs fans it will be the END as you know it and life would never feel the same again.
I bet the Goons are praying we move and loving blogs like this.
A hardcore loving Tottenham Hotspur FC fan 100%.
Famous quote from Keith Burkinshaw’ There once was a Football Club there’ how unimaginably true this quote could be when WHL no longer exists.
COYS.
You're being hysterical Simon. There is no similarity between Wimbledon FC becoming Milton Keynes Dons and Spurs building a ground in Stratford.
If Spurs built a stadium in Edmonton would you tear up your season ticket and never mention "that team I used to support" ever again?
There is very little that will remain constant in life and football, but THFC will always be THFC, as long as we "love and support" THFC and remain Tottenham Hotspur FC, wear the lilywhite and the fighting cockerel with pride... never forget past glories, the legends that graced WHL and the legacy passed down through the generations of passionate THFC fans daring to demand football in it's purest form... we the fans are THFC not WHL... anything else just isn't Tottenham.
Hysterical ? Spurs have been my life and tens of thousands of fans for 36 plus years!
People like you Nayim who don't give a fuck about heritage and history get me hysterical. You have your own reasons for supporting Tottenham but they are not clearly the same as mine.
Lets just all fuck off to Stratford bollocks to it all.
The northern part of Edmonton N9 postal district is known as Lower Edmonton and the southern part N18 as Upper Edmonton not exactly the fucking east end is it?
The future according to Nayim: In 2013-2014 Tottenham Hotspur FC relocated that was the beginning of the end of THFC and the new beginning of Stratford Hotspur and a whole new breed and generation of fans from East London were born like Nayim. Those few original fans that remained loyal (again like Nayim) from the old WHL only did so as the train journey was easier than they remembered and it all made sense financially.
So the answer to your question is NO!'
Be careful of what you wish for.
Edmonton is not Tottenham though is it? But close enough for you to conisder it so. How far is too far?
What constitues a football club, what IS Tottenham Hotspur FC? Is it the name, the ground, the team strip, the players, the fans or is it a combination of all of them? To me the most important thing is the supporters; they are what make a club who they are and what give the club their identiity.
Hypothetical question: if Arsenal financially imploded next season and went into administration, 20,000 Gooners then start turning up at WHL, does that still make us Tottenham Hotspur? Or do we become a different club - Tottenham Gunners? Arsenal Hotspur?
If we are still called Tottenham Hotspur, still play in the same team colours but the fans are now Gooners, is it really still "Spurs" or just Arsenal by a different name?
You say that the club will be full of plastic new East End fans and Tottenham Hotspur will die and become "Stratford Spurs" or some other bastardised club is "real" Spurs fan stop going, yet you then go on to say that you will boycott the club. Your actions will directly cause the situation that you most fear. An inescapable self-fulfilling proficy. Yet surely if current fans continue to flock to the ground to support the team, "our" team, then it is still "Tottenham Hotspur"; it is still "us" and will be for as long as we want it to be.
If you choose to rescind your support and abandon the club, the players and most of all your fellow supporters then it will no longer be Tottenham Hotspur; it will be someones else club.
Be careful what you wish for indeed....
Wonder if you can help fellow Spurs fans, I live in a home which has been with the family for generations, a home full of wonderful memories that we will never forget, however it's simply not big enough, none of my extended family come to visit as it's a nightmare to get to plus the parking is an absolute biyatch too... i think i might have to knock it down and rebuild it. The problem is if i do knock it down and rebuild it me and my family will be put under financial difficulties and unfortunately we will have to do without the holidays, nice furniture, the latest and greatest electrical goods, no more shopping at Sainsbury's and instead i'll have to get our weekly shop at Lidl, probably have to get rid of Sky+ HD too.
Here's my predicament, there's a house down the road, the east side of town, which I've had my eye on that's superior in every way, all the latest and great mod cons, far easier for me to get to work and back, parking right outside which should help the family and friends to visit plus it's gonna look amazing! But here's the real crux of the matter, it's probably gonna cost me half of what it'd cost me to knock down and rebuild my current home, which means the kids and wife will still get what they want for Xmas, i might be able to keep my car and i can buy jaffa cakes instead of a box of broken biscuits!
I know it's not what i currently call home and yes it will be a massive emotional wrench to give up but i'd be knocking it down anyway so it will never be what i've always called home but imagine the great times and memories we can look forward to in our brand spanking shiny new home whilst still maintaining a good standard of living, the future could be so so exciting!
What do you think i should do?
Kill all your family and hang yourself? lol ;)
To be fair, if i did move, i might in fact be able to go on nicer holidays, get a nice big 3Dtv and a better car... still unsure though?
Already considered that but unfortunately the joists in the loft are about to give way...
Daniel released a statement about stadium plans today, don't know if y'all saw it:
http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/articles/club-statement-on-stadium-plans-191110.html?
Just read Levy's open letter on the club website. ....... I trust the wily old fox, and I for one am behind him WHATEVER !!!
Remember lads 'TO DARE IS TO DO'
One gets the impression that Daniel's more than a little irked by the lack of public development money available to help finance the Northumberland Redevelopment route.
It's very important that people realise that 95% of pro stratford comments are those of either;
1. a gooner
2. people posting at the request of levy
Please note that number 2 is only possible if levy is serious about the move and this is his way of slowly influencing other fans.
I still doubt whether levy is serious about all this and feel it could still be a elaborate and therefore more believable ploy.
Its clear to any real spurs fan that going to stratford is totally unacceptable. Indeed even moving somewhere else in North London but out of Tottenham would still be very wrong. Tottenham Hotspur MUST play in Tottenham.
Just to be clear levy WONT be allowed to do this no matter what it takes on are part - no matter what.
What constitutes a football club, what IS Tottenham Hotspur FC? Is it the name, the ground, the team strip, the players, the fans or is it a combination of all of them? To me the most important thing is the supporters; they are what make a club who they are and what give the club their identity?
Good reply but you forgot to add history and heritage and location and the individual supporters memories, love and attachment that they have with the area due to the Football Club?
To answer your question we are a North London club end of. The Tottenham area in some people’s eyes will be a shithole but it’s our shithole and we are proud because of that.
Why don't we go to Scotland? The land would be cheaper up there and we would win the SPL every season!
Franchise football to just uproot and go elsewhere fundamentally will destroy the heritage of not only Tottenham Hotspur FC but English football and give precedence for all teams to do the same or worse.
The buzz of a real English away game would be a far less a buzz if we had to travel to the USA or Dubai to watch United etc?
Nice idea (financially imploded) Not one Gooner would do so; they would all rather go shopping with their girlfriends on a Saturday than watch Spurs and vice versa or would you?
'You say that the club will be full of plastic new East End fans and Tottenham Hotspur will die and become "Stratford Spurs" or some other bastardised club is "real" Spurs fan stop going, yet you then go on to say that you will boycott the club. Your actions will directly cause the situation that you most fear. An inescapable self-fulfilling prophecy. Yet surely if current fans continue to flock to the ground to support the team, "our" team, then it is still "Tottenham Hotspur"; it is still "us" and will be for as long as we want it to be ‘If you choose to rescind your support and abandon the club, the players and most of all your fellow supporters then it will no longer be Tottenham Hotspur; it will be someone’s else club'
We could be here all night if I replied to this but basically just by moving to the east it will naturally become someone else’s club overtime period.
Tottenham just has to be in Tottenham, it’s what makes and indentifies US supporters even if most do travel there? As you say we are the most important thing?
Bread with no butter?
ITN News with no Trevor Mcdonald ? ITN News was never the same without him and viewers deserted overnight. I ‘m going at a tangent here but you see where i am coming from but I’m not sure you do.
If it happens I will continue my inescapable self-fulfilling prophecy and watch local league football and have memories of the once proud club from Tottenham I supported as a boy which would no longer exist.
Until relocation takes place it for sure is hard to comprehend whatever side you take but I assure you it things will never be the same.
We are Tottenham
Super Tottenham from Stratford.
Get it?
I've just read his open letter. Looks like it's going to be Stratford unless those monies are raised. Levy is giving it one more go I think but he's bigging up Stratford.
Brace yourselves.
Just read it.
http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/articles/club-statement-on-stadium-plans-191110.html
£££ Questions Questions Questions
Regarding the statement, Levy seems to be angling for some government money, which has got to be a very long shot at this moment in time. Hotspur FC or Spurs FC anyone?
If we do move WHL will never be forgotten, us fans will never let that happen... even if we're in Stratford we will always be Tottenham from the Lane!
What happens if we are renamed London Hotspur ?
This new twist is gutting.
History v Cost
The Lane is the Lane...its where all our memories emante and shld be without doubt the first priority!!!
While access and transport to the stadium is undoubtly an issue (the Scum promised to improve accessability to the new Library and then simply fudged it, getting away from there is a nightmare by all counts but everyone puts up with it) I think the inital outlay is THE only real issue (which is affected/increased by the accessability issues at the existing site). The £200m or so it would additionally cost to redevelop the Lane wld be a serious handicap.
Both projects wld most likely generate similar revenues but its how big the mortgage to pay for it that will determine the strength of the club for the next 10-15 years! That's what, unfortunately, puts things in favour of the Olympic Site.
Its a seriously tough decision and in an ideal world wld be resolvable at the current site but, with a heavy heart, we wld have to accept the most cost effective solution at what is an extremely crucial stage of the clubs' recent history!
Is there no other sites nearby, with an N postcode, that cld be explored? The thought of emigrating doesn't sit well with me at all.
The Scum crucially have a manager who has been able to mask the affect of paying down the debt (which is now far more manageble since they sold the flats developed at the old Library) by consistently qualifying for the Champs Lge!
Can we guarantee doing that if we stay at the existing site while paying £30-£40m odd a year in debt repayments??
Conflicted....big time!!
@Me
London Hotspur is an interesting idea, but at the moment it sounds like a mistake that an American tourist might make.
Simon spoken like a true yid mate let Nayim go with his numptys to Stratford and i'll come with you to watch local league.
I fear the worst....
American tourist nice one. They could be needed to fill the Hotspur Dome in the Far East.
Mr. Levy has the right raving hump, and understandably so. The so called parliamentary representative for Tottenham has chosen to attack the club when he should be using his time on the soapbox to publicly lobby Boris Johnson and Haringey Council to do everything in their powers to help make the stadium redevelopment happen. Its also true that by committing to staying in their traditional patch, Spurs are proposing the single biggest regeneration project that the area has seen in decades, if ever. On a lighter and slightly more deluded note, I do like the match day monorail idea that was brought up earlier. Matchdays would be like visiting somewhere in between the Epcot Centre and Total Recall!
No Simon I don't!
If you are serious and want us to stay at the lane, and stagnate, watching other clubs around us grow.....no, I just don't get it.Why would you want that.....seriously? Because we are a North London Club? whoopie fcuking doo!! Simon, there's only one team in London...... not North London, and that's us mate.. Tottenham
Our club needs to grow, yes or no ?
If you said No....... you need locking up ........or you're a Gooner.
Wisky Tom the prick has been on the wisky.
Stadium Plans - I think Levy is rightly touting for public money to be used as part of an overall regeneration plan for Tottenham.....we all know its an area that needs it every bit as much as Stratford/Leyton did!
It will, undoubtly, be a hard sell in the current climate but if the Scum, in a far better area financially, were able to qualify for public funds (admittedly in better times) than surely there must be some assistance for this project!!
History v Cost
The Lane is the Lane...its where all our memories emante and shld be without doubt the first priority!!!
Talk for yourself mate - I had major troubles getting tickets to home games and so traveled over land and sea!!! My memories are mainly derived from other clubs terraces.
And while you're at it.........remember when we went all seater !!!!
Wisky Tom before you call a yid a Gooner read past posts you prick.
Simon clearly wants regeneration of WHL in North London not your plastic London Hotspurs relocation package. Fucking stagnating right now are we?
I can see you right now pulling yourself off in Stratford with one on the rocks in the other hand!
The only thing that needs to grow is your cock.
Also
Branding is big business and take years to archive............... if at all. No one will try to re brand Tottenham Hotspur! And we'd still be Tottenham from the Lane - because that's where we're from...... Or is it? Tottenham from the marshes anyone?
Whisky Tom
I'm only a club member and have the same problems getting tickets. However, by making an effort on the day tickets go on sale I'm able to get tickets for whichever home game I like. I appreciate the fact we need a larger stadium to accomodate more fans but I wld also like to stay (or prefer to stay) where we are...circumstances permitting!
Wld u still be so keen to move if the costs were the same? That is, if public funds were given and the cost differential reduced.