Final word on the Nani goal
Monday, November 1, 2010 at 12:00PM Referees and assistant referees get things wrong. All the time it seems, and they enjoy doing so in Spurs games for and against us if you read what others wish to share as evidence.
United fans have cited the Palacios tackle which he should have been sent off for last season at OT early in the game. Webb didn't but did award a penalty that never was. It's swings and roundabouts. Or something.
Also cited, the Huddlestone goal against Fulham (wasn't Gallas not interfering any ways?) and the Stoke goal that never was.
The point being (as made by the right honourable Rio Ferdinand who knows everything about how to make the most of an ambiguous situation) that we looked the other way at both Fulham and Stoke and didn't ask questions, so what difference with Nani and his cheeky punt of ball under hapless body of Gomes goal?
Not sure how the decisions we don't get against United (when added up) can be explained in terms of annoyance and why they continue to happen - but regardless of the injustice any club of any colour experiences the end result is this:
Accept the mistake made, if its in your advantage or against you because the law of averages would deem that karma will set things right in another game. Even if you tally 'em up and find yourself counting the good on one hand and the bad requiring the hands of twenty.
It's fair they all say. And to keep crying victim is unbecoming of us (the scousers have copyright, I've checked).
However, the Hudd goal at Fulham. The Stoke goal not given. Are these really comparable to the Mendas 'goal', the Webb penalty decision and couple of other hugely contentious incidents? It's not exactly offside and let's have goal line technology please, is it? I guess yellow cards dished out for tackles for one team but ignored for tackles for the opposing side, time and time again, is also contentious. But then that's also a very regular pattern in the game, the country over.
Re: That Mendes 'goal' - I know the lino had his head down and never saw the ball cross the line, but surely when he lifted his head up and looked across to the goal - something a certain ref also supposedly did if he was concentrating and doing his job - considering Carroll got himself out of the goal from behind the line in a mental scramble wouldn't logic suggest the ball must have also been behind the line for the keeper to have been behind the line?
Oh Christ, I'm going to go off on a tangent here. Let's not. It's part of football legend now. Discussed to death. And it would seem, accepted in the realms of the upper tier.
So no more playing the victim. It hasn't helped us and it hasn't changed things. Them the breaks, and if it happens to your advantage you should lap it up. It's part and parcel. The mistakes. Delivered with ample consistent incompetence by the officials time and time again. Why even bother bothering?
I guess you might well ask how exactly can we manage to dig out for ourselves something like the Nani goal to our advantage in a game (for the last time, THE GOAL AGAINST STOKE DOES NOT COMPARE) is easily answered. It's whether the question is being asked inside our beloved club amongst management and players. It's whether we want to be asking it.
The answer would be to simply start c**ting off the opposition. Yep, lose a bit of class and become a winner. You'll still need support. Play in red, and you'll get it every time.
Or, I don't know, perhaps, ya know, if we grew some b*llocks and followed through on our motto and took control of the destiny of the game placing it beyond the man in black with the whistle in his hand and the opposition's gleeful handling of said delivered parcel of love.
Mental strength, hey? If only we could sign up some of that in the Jan transfer window. Because ref's are out of our league, for now at least.
So let's give Cluttenburg and Webb and every other ref that has dicked as or helped us by way of comedy a massive round of applause.
Start clapping in 3...2...1...
As for Spurs, heads up, we're playing some lovely stuff, we have some fantastic players. We're not far off from getting it right. Honestly, have faith. I'm not drunk.
Reader Comments (45)
"took control of the destiny of the game placing it beyond the man in black with the whistle in his hand "
I'm sure that's what the players thought when Mendes scored and when Spurs were 2-0 up at half time ....
Yeh, right attitude. None of the victim stuff. Two weeks ago Fulham felt duped now its our turn. Karma.
Thing is Martin, we collapse because there is still something in side that doesn't scream to us 'kill them off'.
Top blogging. If we manage to score a goal like the Mendes or Nani goal I will tell you what will happen if the likes of Cluttenberg are ref'ing. He would disallow it. Plain and simple. Why? Because we're not one of the clubs considered to be untouchable. I know this sounds far fetched but look at how some of these officials react in these games and scenarios. They want to please the likes of Fergie.
Fucking bite me if you disagree.
I would love us to score a goal like the Nani one and see how the media report it and how the media respond to it if it's allowed/disallowed by the ref.
Ridiculous to claim the Gallas offside as comparable: They couldn't even agree on MOTD having had hours to decide (I personally thought offside). It is laughable that a free kick wasn't given, and it obviously wasn't clear to everyone that he hadn't blown the whistle: the assistant ref thought he'd given a free kick! Obviously it comes down to play to the whistle, but what the hell kind of referee doesn't see that handball?! and then still gives it when the linesman flags? As I recall the crouch clearance/over the line cited in the manc article you link to was inconclusive too. I take your point about not moaning, I do, but that other article pissed me off! And tell me the decisions (or even 1) in spurs vs utd games that even up the pro utd ones?
Simon Beck (the lino in question on Saturday) allowed this goal at Old Trafford last season: http://therepublikofmancunia.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Offside.jpg
Chelsea won 2-1 and a few weeks later won the title by 1 point.
So, he's incompetent, agreed. But please don't kid yourselves in to thinking Spurs are always the victims.
Not saying Spurs are always the victims. Am saying it happens to all clubs, also saying it has a habit of happening in games against Spurs with United. To the point where it's now expected almost as part of a script.
I remember being at the Lane a few seasons back, then coming home and watching a recording (as you do). Was against Utd, we lost (honestly, we did) and I can remember seeing Scholes running around like a rabid dog, really putting it about with no comment from Andy Gray and no action from the ref who then booked Zokora for his first tackle which had Gray positively eating his mic as though Zokora has shot someone.
I know, I know, conspiracy this, conspiracy that. It's just that there's a tradition of unholy inconsistency which - to be frank - is fucking tiresome now.
If we're going to lose to you, would prefer to just lose without the contentious bullshit.
He also allowed Macheda to score with his hand in that game. But thats ok cos it was for you
Interesting article just posted on the Mail online re this incident. where Graham Poll gives his views.
Think his conclusion is correct and Clattenberg had the chance to make the "right" decision but failed to grasp the opportunity.
Hopefully a spell reffing Blue Square matches will give him the chance to see the error of his ways.
Four years on the trot, four matches where the officials have stolen the headlines.
Maybe it's time the referee academy was moved away from Old Traffords doorstep, and maybe it's time the FA actually acknowledged their men in black aren't always right.
The only way forward is video technology, but while Platini and Blatter are in control that's never going to happen. the sooner those two step down the better, and fingers crossed the replacements are actually capable of taking the sport forward the way it should be.
ur right spooks(take control of the destiny of the game)..to true...also hr needs to take some destiny for his tactics and some destiny for his team lineup.. hr picked jenas over kranjcar..hr has done a good job of getting us to where we are.. but im starting to think hr hasnt got the skill to push us on to beat teams like man u (away) and inter milan (home)...if we hadnt have bought van the man our season would already be over....is that a fair assesment about van spooks? i
It´s great blog you´ve done there.
We shall never moan after the games are done and we are definately no victim at all. Off course we can be furious - mostly due the fact that we sometimes, quite often actually, seems to be the better team without the skill to finish off a game and conceiding to many scrubby goals.
And of course we can be furious when we and everybody else watches the red trash gest treated the way they are - against any opponents. Thats a shame and quiet honest it pisses mee of. In fact it is a little ridiculous sometimes...
Even though we did deliver a very decent game yesterday, especially between the two penaltyareas, it must be clear for everybody, that we need 1 or 2 strikers and not at least 1 or 2 at both RB, CB and LB. Hutton/Charlie simply hasn´t got it and BAE is never going to get it, despite a promising few seasons in the past. In midfield we look very strong, but until we´re improved we won´t be near the red trash teams and the blues...
VDV signed by Levy. Out of pure luck of circumstance and desperation that no other viable options were available.
How lucky are we?
Spurs 3 Internazionale 1
Brace from Rodney
Battenburg is a prick. Goodnight.
The media today and opposition fans have been a bunch of arseholes. If we do not qualify for CL football next season because of a goal difference of 1 I will personally take Cluttenburg's wig and stick it up his arse.
Phil Neville, when we weren't given that Mendes goal, came out with the same sort of mealy-mouthed crap that Ferdinand has delivered over this goal.
The F.A. remind you of Nero fiddling while Rome burns.
I'd challenge those two, along with Ferguson, to detail any incidents over the last ten years where United has received similar treatment, like with Webb apologising to Spurs for wrongly awarding that penalty when Carrick cheated.
Why do these controversies always seem to involve the same teams getting the benefit?
It's all about influence.
I am not entirely sure we have actually been 'playing some lovely stuff' this season. Maybe the boys will show me against Inter. COYS
Need to get this off my unhappy chest.
1. We were never going to win this game.
1.1 Our second (third) choice defence is too crap. BAE has scary moments. Kaboul has made two expensive mistakes in the last two games. We lack stabillity in the centre.
1.2 Our attack is not incisive enough. I mentioned in a previous post that Manure are susceptible to speed merchants. Bellamy, Drogba. Instead we pump the ball into the box. Easy pickings for Rio and Vidic.
1.3 We chose the wrong personnel. I do not rate Jenas. Why didnt we use Sandro or Kranjcar or Palacios? Why not maintain the 4-2-3-1? Once VDV went off, send in Sandro and push Modric forward. Maintain the momentum.
2. Nani is an annoying git. It's always the idiots.
2.1 Salgado brought down Bale at the Lane last season, lucky that Webb did not give the penalty, but called Bale a diver.
2.2 Phil Neville double teams with Coleman to close down Bale, fouls him a few times, and combines with Jagielka to foul Crouch a few times, Phil Jones doesnt book him, doesnt give the penalty, but complains about free kicks being given.
3. Playing for England seems to be a poisoned chalice. Deprived us of Dawson and Defoe in our time of need. If ever there was a stronger case for putting club before country, this is it. Perhaps we are not canny enough to produce an injury just before a meaningless friendly before a miraculous recovery just before the next important domestic or European game. Think about it.
4. I will personally slap anyone who mentions no wins at OT since 1989. It's because of external factors (like refs or the perceived double standards) beyond our control. I would be interested to canvass the views of gooners and Liverpool supporters on these "technically correct" (play to the whistle dont-question-me-I-am-the-omnipotent-one) decisions in favour of ManUre, especially if ManUre pip them by one goal, or one point.
5. I am thinking of writing to Sir Keith of Hackett. Not to complain, not to criticise. Ask them to admit mistakes were made and to apologise. Ask them to rescind the yellow for Modric. I dont like the arrogance with which the officials conduct themselves. Once the refs believe there is no accountability, then their role, purpose and integrity become meaningless. Ask Mark Hughes what he thinks of Mike Dean.
6. Clatterburg sent Boyata off last week. Arsenal went on to win by 3. City are as ambitious as Spurs, but dont get the breaks. For every Boyata that is rightly sent off, there is a Cashley Cole petulance, a Cristiano Ronaldo dive, a John Terry illegal block, a Samir Nasri dive, Didier Drogba offside that goes unpunished. Think about it.
Concerned as I am that refs - either consciously or subsconsciously - favour certain sides, I'm much more concerned that despite having Joe Jordan, Clive Allen and Les Ferdinand on our coaching staff, our strikers have a strange inability to put the ball in the fucking net. Either Messrs Jordan, Allen and Ferdinand couldn't coach a zebra to grow stripes, or Messrs Crouch, Keane and Pav (sometimes) would be of more use to the club showing punters to their seats in the Exec boxes.
Surely there is enough historical footage for a dvd release: "man u: decisions".
Failing that, a utube compilation with an ironic musical score.(stevie wonder?).
I'm pretty sure that it would start a trend amongst fans.
The reason we lost: A Kaboul momentary lapse of concentration moment. He would be magnificent if it wasn't for his inability to play for 90 mins without making a mistake. Unfortunately for us at this level those mistakes inevitably mean goals conceded over the course of a season. Secondly, HR picking Keane over Pav. That was not the game to give him a sympathy match just because their two world class defenders could keep Crouch in their pocket.
The reason we lost 2-0: Twattenberg claims to have seen the handball incident and played advantage. Clearly going a goal down was of no advantage to us so he should have brought play back for the original offence. He didn't. He's a nobjockey.
On a positive note I think these next few weeks are going to be the weakest of our season. Daws and Defoe and VDV will be playing regularly together before Xmas and all will be well. If we can get into the CL knockout stages there might be some pleasing January imports. COYS!
Final word on that Nani goal? It would have to be
"Dusted"
As you say spooks, lets move on because the pessimistic fatalist conspiracy theorist elements of our psyche whenever we play these c-words (choose at your own discretion - I've selected 'comedians' coz they blatantly having a laugh) are getting tiresome and preventlng my capacity to focus on the big picture.
Kaboul is Dawsonesque in the way Daws was back in the day, and on rare occasions still lapses back to.
Dawson at least has improved. Kaboul has time, but it might yet cost us more points.
that fulham goal is nothing like the one on Saturday. it wasn't as if Nani got the penalty he was after and scored it (because we would have felt hard done by by that), it wasn't as if replays showed a player was standing slightly in an offside position. This was just a completely joke and a typical Old Trafford bottle job by the ref, who should be slung out of the league for such an error, and thus robbing us of the last 10 minutes of a football match.
oh and another point: despite being a usually big fan of this blog, this particular entry i completely disagree with. It's just nature to ignore when things go your way and kick off when things dont. imagine you go on holiday and your rooms been accidently upgraded to the penthouse suite. you guna complain about that? of course not. in the same token, if your rooms been given to someone else because the hotel's made a cock-up your guna go mental. we've been fucked over in this match and we have every right to complain about it, regardless of whether a few decisions have gone our way in the past!!
Top blog and a great set of comments. We all have our own opinions of course and somewhere in this mixture of ingredients above would be my thoughts.
Just read the Guardian's c*nty analysis of the match.
Here's a much better one:
http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/10/31/manchester-united-0-0-tottenham/#more-4830
pLAYED SOME LOVELY STUFF THIS SEASON??
Won 6 games
Lost 6 games
Played 10 league games
Scored 11 league goals.
What's lovely about losing as many games as you've won?
What's lovely about averaging 1.1 goals a game?
Don't be pedantic, it's not like we are looking like a Ramos Spurs is it? Final third is letting us down, there is not that much that needs fixing, its a case of fixing it and fixing it quickly.
I know the stats look poor, and arguably you can look at Utd who have been average and have still managed to pick up plenty of points.
It will come good.
Fine line between being good and shit Spooks.Lack of a decent striker is leaving us in the shit.
Utd may have been average, I haven't seen many of their games but a quick look at their stats would tell you:
Won 9 games
Lost 0 games
Played 10 league games
Scored 22 league goals.
They haven't lost a single game this season, we've lost 6!!
I can accept losing 6 because 1 was the league cup with the reserves, another was with 10 men at Inter and the other away at Manyoo (although, you could argue we've not beaten a good team yet all season) but only scoring 11 goals is embarrassing and there's no excuses for that. Take away the 3 we got in the last 15 mins v Wolves and we've only got 8 in 9 games.
Something needs to change, Modric needs to start scoring, if there's anything VDV has shown is that Modric isn't productive enough. He's got the talent, he's 25 now, no more excuses, he needs to start imposing himself. The twists, turns and flicks on the halfway line will only get you so far, he needs to start fulfilling is talent in the final third.
Right now, without Bale and VDV our season would be a mess but I keep reading we're playing lovely stuff!!! ARE WE??
Yes, we're in a good position in the league but it's flattering us right now, our rivals- Villa, Everton and Liverpool have been awful and Man Citeh have been decent but nothing more other than the last 2 games. I can't see all f of them continuing to stuggle at the same time. HECK, Liverpool and Everton are only 3 and 2 points behind us now and they've been fecking sh!te all season.
We need to open our eyes and stop apologising for our results because before we know it, they'll be more teams than just Chelsea 10 points ahead of us.
What irks (as has been noted) is the epic nature of our defeats at OT.
The tie there itself already bears epic proportions: it's against the great, global brand of Man Utd, after all. Then there's our 21-year old attempt to achieve victory there - that's also epic. Then we have: epic collapses, epic score-lines, epic hopes and expectations, epic cheating and epic blunders.
A simple, dull, straightforward 1-0 loss would come as a relief. It's only natural that we feel epic disappointment and epically aggrieved.
But it doesn't mean the sky is falling down. COYS.
Best Spurs squad for ten + years and people still bitch.
I'm not suggesting the numbers look great. We are how many pts adrift of Utd now? It's not like were 10/15 behind is it? And this is the frustration, the side needs a tweak, we need players back and a new forward. Okay, so that's something plenty of clubs could ask for in terms of improving their form, but with us, it's not exactly end of days football - it's just a performance away from kick-starting it.
If we leave it too late, we are shagged. But the side is no exactly struggling in terms of application, just end product.
And it will change. Has to. Blind faith, but hey, I banged on about us finishing top4 for practically all of last season.
Dear Mr Levy, everytime Keane plays his re-sale value is reduced. Giving him the armband as well as a start was an insult to Modders as well as Pav.
Krancjar not playing when the current form of the first team suggests some need a rest/kick up the arse?
Are there hidden agendas there?
This squad was good enough for 4th last season, why do we now look like a two man team? Obvious answer is settled defence, but attacking wise wasn't Defoe out injured at some point last year?
Thought we played better at the weekend than we have for sometime.
Something aint quite right at the Lane. Harry has to pretend it's all gone 2pts8games on us and get them out of this rut.
Last season there was a kind of creeping panic among many Spurs fans. If we didn’t achieve Top Four now (was the message), we would never achieve it. Man City, with their millions, would make that position their own and turn it into a fortress for years to come. Spurs would be locked outside the gates, excluded from the riches within and forced to subsist among the football peasantry. Yet, just when the drawbridge seemed about to go up, we sneaked into the castle.
And here we are, living the Top Four ‘dream’. Tomorrow we host Inter Milan at White Hart Lane. Inter Milan! Progressing to the knock-out stages of the Champions League is still in our own capable hands. The ‘dream’ we yearned for – of competing on the world’s prestige club stage – comes at the cost of our peace of mind, since it offers nail-biting anxiety, frustration and extravagant expectation. But it’s a price we cheerfully pay, since, as part of its package (which includes the bitter pill of defeat), it includes triumph and glory. We take this pain for this possible pleasure.
But now, instead of the creeping panic that we won’t ACHIEVE Top Four, there’s the creeping panic that we won’t MAINTAIN it. Are we not just exchanging anxieties, one for the other? Why should our position be less tenable than Man City’s (a club burdened by egos and players whose chief motive is cash) would have been, had they stolen our berth on the gravy-train? As the holders, it’s currently ours to lose. But we fret that, if we slip to fifth or beyond, we won’t attract better players; or we’ll lose the better players we have; and our chance for renewed success and fame will be gone.
And what has this ‘gravy-train’ done for us with its promised riches? What influx of wealth and personnel have we seen since we became a CL side? Yes, vDV is a massive coup. But the all-singing-all-dancing kick-arse striker didn’t materialise, even though I’d be surprised if we didn’t try to recruit one. Perhaps he just wasn’t interested in joining. Or perhaps we didn’t offer him sufficient financial inducement (the common conclusion being that, next time, we have to cave in and pay obscene amounts of money to get obscenely talented footballers at WHL – this, despite our expressed wish to employ only players who ‘love the shirt’ and to keep the club ‘mercenary-free’).
The point is, we’re doing ok. We’re not the finished article, but is any club? Yes, some clubs seem so but, surely, they’ve just grown better working-models over time that have enabled them to become more resilient and successful. A club – and a First Eleven - is organic. It constantly changes due to the players it comprises, the stages of their respective careers, their relationships with the non-playing staff and the skills and decisions of everyone involved. Spurs are getting there. We may not be getting there at express speed, but we started from a position which saw us going backwards at horse-power, heading toward the buffers and the cliff beyond.
And now we host Inter Milan at WHL. N17 is no country for faint hearts.
Can we start the "What ridiculous event will stop us winning at OT next year" poll now?
If only Chewie were here.....
This is just part of the DNA of being Spurs. Onward.
Let's draw a line under this unfortunate indecent (which would not have honestly made a difference to our points total anyway) and start thinking about how incredible it will be to host Inter at the Lane and beat them.
I like the way we play and I thought we played well for most of the time on Saturday.
They didn't score in open play and that is progress of a sort.
I like the fact that we don't harangue the ref. Our protests were almost dignified and Benny was head choirboy.
Our captain still got booked and poor Ferdinand undergoing an identity crises forget that he wasn't captain.
I like the fact that on the whole Harry is dignified in defeat and restrained when we win.
Its called ' the Tottenham way'.
We aren't like Chelsea, Arsenal and Man.Utd.
Our time is coming, all these things are cyclical.
We have patiently built an exciting squad, without a sugar daddy and without paying ridiculous wages.
We beat Man.City for fourth the right way, the Tottenham way and I like it.
Oh well, only Howard Webb for the Sunderland at home game next week// ANGER
What is most dissappointing, was that in all the anlysis of what did and didn't happen, is that the concept of 'sportsmanship' when Nani was trying to take advantage of a situation is no longer a suitable issue in today's football.
Highlighted by the fact that Phillips said 'that any striker would do it'. Where's the pride in that?
I am aware that I should know better than to expect any sort of 'fair play' ethic or this mythical 'sportsmanship-like' behaviour to exist in the modern game, but even if only one fecker sat on a poxy seat in a tv studio or behind a desk writing a report had commented on it, or even raised it as an aspect to the game that is worthy of note, then at least it would still be a dim and distant memory, rather than an obscure and unmentionable concept.
Sportsmanship is dead - Fact, 30th October 2010.
Come on Bursapor!