Cheeky bid for Gary Neville?
Wednesday, September 23, 2009 at 2:16PM Been discussing attitude recently on this blog. My favourite statement at the moment is "No siege mentality, no determination to right the wrongs..." - a testament to the difference between us and the likes of Man Utd and one or two other clubs up there at the top. Carrick, when he left us for Old Trafford, was critical of the acceptance attitude at WHL. Players accepted defeat, it was something that didn't appear to hurt players enough. Harry has been citing Gary Neville's reaction on the sidelines during the City game as an example of togetherness. Players on the bench that kick every ball and celebrate every goal.
It's a constant wanting to play every game and win. Defeat is inexcusable. Carrick also famously cited how players sat in a comfort zone, with some not wanting to show up others and there was almost a culture of under-achievement on an individual basis, which obviously works its way through the team - so the overall mentality is one of mediocrity. This is all very much a generalisation, but I'm not alone in thinking we've been powder-puff for far too long, without leadership and guile. Far too many ego's. A stepping stone, an arena, where you prove you are decent enough to look upwards at a CL club to swoop in and poach.
Harry has began the process of change. Team spirit has evidently improved, be it on the pitch or on the bench. One or two sulky faces still persist, and I guess it's here that we lag a good light year behind the likes of United. But to achieve something akin to what Fergie has done at United is not exactly a peace of piss. We still have players who think as individuals rather than part of the collective of the squad. The more you win, the more unacceptable defeat becomes.
I love 'arry because he talks straight. No nonsense. Ok, so he talks a lot and has an opinion about everything, but what he does well is see what we see, rather than shrug and state that he's been left scratching his head.
How do we exactly go about building this mentality? How do Spurs players become Spurs fans? Easier said than done. Fergie's empire began in a different era of football. The fact that the Top 4 site in their thrones means that there is always another level for the modern player to aim for when he plays for the likes of Spurs, Villa, Everton etc.
I guess its partly up to us to support the team vocally - as ever - and Harry to gradually change the mind-set of the players. Losing has to hurt more than anything. Not that it doesn't (for us), but the players have to feel sick to see points lost.
Signing players like Wilson Palacios is how we work towards it. Players who work at a tempo that inspires others around him to match his tenacity. When we see the first example of a siege mentality then we can begin to smile a little more and the players - having experienced the very fact they can lift their game to a higher level - will know that if they can do it in one game, there is no excuse to fail in the next. We need a couple of giant personalities in the side that have an unnerving warrior stance out on the field, barking out orders to players, encouraging them and giving them what for if any heads drop down. It's the type of confidence that flirts with arrogance.
Every opponent should be treated the same. No discrimination. Go out there and pull the fuckers apart.
Reader Comments (18)
We lack players of this ilk because were not a team challenging. To become a team to challenge from our position is tricky because players look to move on (Carrick/Berbatov) because there is no room for patience in the game. And why would a player stick at a club for 4 years when a CL club can offer him CL the following season? People can sit and slate us for the money we spend and the wanting to push into the top 4 but at least we try and look for it and aspire. As a club and as fans. Otherwise there's no point right? But building a team round your best players only to see them move on creates a fucked up internal culture that erodes the place over time. City as much as I loathe them are looking at the big risk big expense way to gatecrash.
Really hope Harry can have a go at turning players into 110% loyalists to Spurs who play for the badge but its such a good living for these guys its going to be a huge ask.
Fergie built something epic at United. Having all those kids come through the ranks also helped. Once you achieve success you aim to retain it. We need at least 4 Wilsons to get anywhere near them.
Ironically, I don't remember Carrick speaking up while wearing the Lilywhite shirt.
The last player we had with this sort of attitude you're talking about was Davids.
Taggart may of brought loads of kids through the ranks but that was mostly down to being able to play his established players in European competition because home nation players were equally as restricted as foreigners. Man Utd's success under Fergie was initially built on the likes of Cantonna, McClair, Kanchelskis, Schmeichal, Keane, Ince, Bruce, McAllister etc, he wasn't shy about shelling out, still isn't.
Carrick never did speak up whilst at the club. He never said he loved Spurs because he knew if he excelled (which he did) he'd move on. Which he did. He slated us later on.
Fergie splashed out but almost all the players he signed were players who fitted into a his system. And players who could look after themselves plenty. We have had no consistency at Spurs so its no wonder players come and go and the ones that hang around are happy to live inside a bubble where expectations and real pressure are never touched. one thing saying 'we have to aim for top 4' to actually believing it.
You know when we beat Chelsea or Liverpool at home we should walk off like its just three points rather than like we've just achieved the impossible dream.
Always lacked that mental edge havent we? Graham Roberts types of players are a rarity. I think having Wilson is a god send and we need to make sure the midfield is a tireless force. We still need more players to come in. Another CM in January. And another CB.
We shagged it up v Utd (h) and Chelsea (a) so we are nowhere near the type of fortitude we need to get in amongst them. 64 games isn't now since we last won away against a top four club? That is shit.
We havn't got that 'winning' mentality because we don't consistently win. Its all a bit chicken omelette.
I can't say I've noticed a big change in Carrick's attitude and demeanour since he left us or Berbatov's. They are both somewhat reserved and cool. Berbatov has suffered from the fans at both clubs because of this.
I certainly don't want us to go to the extremes of Gary Neville who was lucky to get away this time with his ridiculous outburst.
I'm not sure that kind of passion makes you a better player or team. Fair enouigh for the fans to get carried away but not the players surely.
The argument that say Rooney and Palacios are better players because of their passion is debateable. Both would be better if they cooled it a little. Effort, enthusiasm yes, of course but skill, professionalism and control first of all.
Unfortunately it's a club thing.....you tell me any other club stupid enough to release DVD about a 4-4 draw with our closest rivals, sometimes from within our own walls were made to look like a laughing stock to all the other teams, so if they think a 4-4 draw is good enough for a DVD, then my god us actually beating a top 4 team and I bet the idiots in the suits are jumping around and EXPECTING US to get in the top 4 cos ultimately there a bunch or arses who don't know shit apart from how to smell money!!!
Oh and I tell you this, if they had let big Martin Jol have control of transfers like they do now with Harry, we'd have broken in to the top 4 by now and i really and truly believe we'd be seen as true true challengers for the league by this year....which by the way would have been year 4 of the 5 yr plan the board set but decided to royally screw up as they do with everything else!
COYS
Fergie (ManU) have the advantage that the players there KNOW that if they don’t perform, don’t give 100% and don’t show the right attitude, they will be shipped out, because ManU have the financial muscle and the pulling power to bring in world class replacements. We have neither and the players know this. Which is why it would be so beneficial to bring players through from the youth ranks to 1st team. Players who treat the place as home, as family, who would do anything for the shirt and for the fans (Ledley for example). ManU have had these players in abundance: Neville, Scholes, Giggs etc. That winning, passionate, never surrender attitude will rub off on new players
No one we sign, no matter how good, will stay for more than two outstanding seasons in a row. There is only one other solution to this problem and it comes down to the wage structure. Put everyone in the first team squad (players, manager, coaches, physio’s etc) on the same basic wage, something low, like £5k a week. Then pay EVERYONE a huge win bonus, like £60-80k a game. You’ll sure as hell see everyone fighting to win, kicking every ball from the bench and giving their all to the final whistle….
Come on guys! We have made the best start to a season in ages! All you can ask for is general progression. My maths suggest that 12 points is better than last year's 2! 12 points from 6 games is 2 points a game. Project that forward and that's 76 points a season which is more that Arsenal got last season who finished 4th. I am not saying that we'll get anywhere near 76 points, but if we keep up the performance level, I'll be happy. Man Utd did not get there overnight - it took years. Don't forget that that's 12 points from 6 games and 3 of big four out of the way. Let's just wait and see what happens from now - the injuries concern me more than performances against big four. Also worried about (Bassong and Ekotto being away in January for African nations cup.
Helps if you have the likes of Scholes, Giggs, Beckham, the Nevilles coming through at the same time. They will have lived and breathed the club since kids. That kind of loyalty and passion is infectious and creates a culture of success and every subsequent player who signs has to live up to that or get shipped out. Same goes with Liverpool with Gerrard and Carragher and Arsenal who get their players in at a ridiculously young age and become immersed in the club. Chelsea do it by paying big money for world class players who only know how to win and I don't think we can afford to buy their particular kind of passion.
Fergie is also the kind of manager who will demand a particular reaction and attitude from his players. Jol was too nice.
Or what Nayim said! Sorry, skim read over most of the posts...
"Every opponent should be treated the same. No discrimination. Go out there and pull the fuckers apart."
Exactly! COYS!!!!!
I don't think its as bad as is being made out. I think we could use a few more options for captain and I would love to see our CM's actually dominate games for 90 minutes but I think there has been plenty to show we are getting there with the performance so far this season - winning away when going behind takes a degree of charcter/bouncebackability and we have had the courage to at least make an attempt at beating united and the chavs (rarther than park the bus).
There are no quick fixes and as a club I think its difficult to demand 110% loyalty from our players when we over the last 4-5 years we brought and sold far too many players. The new transfer approach under HR obviously addresses this issue (chim apart) but I dont think you can blame the players for seeing us as s stepping stone when seem to treat them in the same way.
United notoriously have a slow start, and yet no one suggests (dare they, it wud upset Slur Alex) that they won't win the Prem., or even 'not finish in the top four'. Spurs had an extremely difficult fist six games tostart the season, playing 3 of the Big 4, and of the 3 remaining games away. they had to do this with 2 of their 4 central defenders injured, 1 permanently crocked, and unable to train, and with their only other option a young player (a kid in real terms) and who had just arrived and yet to settle into the squad (and so effectively was thrown i at the deep end). It should also be pointed out that Spurs finished the Chelsea game without a single recognised central defender on the field (or on the bench). And with their playmaker injured. And yet still have 12 points.
United also did pretty poorly against the other represnetatives of the Big 4 - this too should be pointed out!
It's not the end of the world FFookS!
'Arry's comments were for a 'Neville type player' not 'I fink we shud sigh GNev'. Even then I think there has been a lot of knee-jerk to the last two results.
The Machine......... You get my vote!
Sensible comments. One in particular I zeroed in on is... "Fergie had something epic at United. Having all those kids come through the ranks also helped"
In my humble opinion it was those "kids" - the Neville brothers, Beckham, Scholes, to name just four - that made the difference. And that's what's always been missing down "The Lane". Also, Man.U's stadium is world-class. Tottenham's isn't.
However, I think the times they are a-changing. There's a breeze gusting up Manchester way and it's blowing south-easterly (and I'm not talking Woolwich way). It's the breeze of discontent, disharmony, and fear of the future. Where's the next generation of Beckham's et al? Bacon-face is an old man, who's gonna fill his boots? What do you do next to keep the fans - and financiers - happy? Man.U has had it's day in the sun. The King is (nearly) dead, long live the (new) King!
Football generally is on the cusp. Figuratively speaking "Football 0.2" is dawning. It's not a dawning of my liking but who am I? In this new day we'll see a European League. No more sky4 or Spanish2 or Italian3 etc., etc. They'll all be playing in one and the the same SupraLeague along with the likes of Bayern Munich, Ajax, Lyon, blah, blah. Getting into this SupraLeague will take a Herculean effort and everything will need to be fresh and sparkling to match the message of the SupraLeague marketing bods.
I digress... sorry.
Back on theme. For the first time in ages.........
1. Tottenham is now building new, world-class, training facilities and is about to build a new, state the art, stadium.
2. Tottenham now has more U18, U21, national squad players than any of it's rivals.
3. Tottenham now has a strong, balanced, creative and, sticking my neck out here, commited first team squad.
4. Tottenham is financially stable/solid and now has a visionary (though of course self-serving) board and management.
Taken together, Tottenham has the potential, all the ingredients, ticks all the boxes, to become the British team of the next decade. It's not in the hands of the Gods anymore, it's in the hands - and feet - of men. All these things have come together at roughly the same time i.e. the present and the immediate future.
I think it's called serendipity. Lovely word that (it's a word of pure English origin too)
AWESOME