The minority report
Tuesday, September 25, 2012 at 9:09PM Is AVB making mistakes? Yeah, sure. I guess no manager is prone to them (although mistakes are only such after the fact otherwise they're shrewd risks that pay off). Especially when at a new club trying to work out the capabilities of the players in the squad and what will work in the long term. So where exactly can the benefit of the doubt be found in amongst all this?
The same way a win can bring renewed optimism a defeat or dropped points seems to bask in depressive pessimism. One extreme to the next. There appears to be no patience for anything to sit in-between the two. Unless that's where the silent majority are, cautious and suspicious, perhaps unwilling to commit until there are more points under in our possession.
Are we back to arguing about the semantics of what constitutes acceptable expectancy? Should this expectancy be a quantifiable reason to inspire the type of support or lack of the team gets from the stands? Think about what that means for a moment. Do you support the team or support what you think the team should be doing to satisfy your needs?
Pound for pound with the players we have we should be swaggering around the pitch. You'd think, you'd hope. Worked under Redknapp. But this is a new era (if I say it enough times then maybe non-believers will clock on) and if the plan is to work through the problems now, in the present, to strength our resolve for the long run – so be it. We’re hardly being dragged kicking and screaming to the gates of hell. For all of that swagger of last season it was the unresolved quirks that saw us stutter and dip. None of those problems looked like being resolved. Our coach is of a different type and his team will be a different build of Tottenham.
Or do some of you really take what happened at that cesspool of a club Villas-Boas was at last season as a valid reason not to trust him? Is there no chance that experience has actually made him a better man and more adaptable to achieve success in England?
It’s not so much the booing that bothers me (it does bother me as it's the calling card for the haters) but it's the accompanying attitude that allows it to manifest in the first place. I’ve been told there were a number of disagreements (again) in the stands and in even in the gents at half time where supporters argued.
“We’re sh*t”
“Why don’t you just support the team?”
Us and them. Hardly One Hotspur.
Disgruntled, some proclaim it’s the performance they are booing and showing their disapproval for because 'how else will they know it's not good enough?'. Let’s not ignore the fact that this isn’t a new trait. It’s been common place for a few seasons now. One or two dips or struggles and the new breed (or just the very tired old breed) believe it's acceptable to lift yourself up from your seat and give the thumbs down. It's a shame we no longer have season ticket booklets. They’re far easier to throw onto the pitch. Levy probably planned for this eventuality. Makes it difficult to start a bonfire outside too. Face it, it doesn't inspire. What inspires is a roar from the crowd, a push from the team that fuels further noise from the stands.
So why the defeatism? The minority that boo and react with discontent are just that, a minority. Yet before a ball is even kicked the atmosphere at Spurs seems to be low-key and nervous. If you honestly believe that won’t influence the players then you need to have a word with yourself and remember that we’re meant to be the voice of the club. If you believe you can inspire the players then you probably can. The excuse that they deserve the abuse because they’re millionaires is irrelevant to what transpires in front of you for those 90 minutes. You're there to support Tottenham.
I guess people must feel stupid, singing when we’re not winning. Love is obviously now conditional within the walls of White Hart Lane. Wasn’t too long ago we laughed at the attitude of other supporters at other clubs. I won’t spell out the irony. I’ll just wait for the ones that disagree to gather up their excuses and explain why I'm wrong. As I cited last time, the want for success and the desire to attain it and the fear of failure is all-consuming. People these days want to skip ahead to the glory, they don't want to fight their way through the graft. It's easier to be fickle, easier to turn the switch on if things are going well, then switch off when they're not. I guess what with it being our best season ever last time out, we have a lot to live up to.
90 minutes. It's 90 minutes every week. You were Spurs before kick-off, you’re Spurs during it and you’re still Spurs after it’s all done. Regardless of the result.
Modern football is focused on winning. Winning is everything and support is optional. Everyone wants it all yesterday and stamps foot with petulance if not given. In an earlier blog I said I can’t tell people or force them to support Spurs in any way different to the way they do now. In an earlier blog I also said I wouldn't be revisiting this argument again, so excuse my Michael Corleone moment.
All our perceptions are unique. Our viewpoints differ and that is usually based on the type of person you are generally, in life. Your outlook and mood. The way you handle pressure. But football, is it not meant to be an escapism? Yes, it's serious and it matters more than it really should but considering the struggles we all live through from day to day, being Tottenham and watching Tottenham should not be perceived as a chore just because we're not witnessing something majestic on the day.
I guess with myself, I’m just someone that tries to retain balance and stand on the side of Spurs. I’m a supporter. I support the club. I support the team that is coached by Andre Villas-Boas, but I support the club first and foremost. No matter what. By 'the club' I'm refering to its traditions and identity. I'll fight for what I believe Tottenham is (including not moving to Stratford, as an example). Since when did football supporting have a requisite that we should only get behind the team vocally when the team is playing well? Like they're only deserving of our support if they're entertaining the people in the stands? That isn't my version of football. And if the game has changed I'll be damned if I'm not going to favour the supporters that do want to stand and sing and support.
It's cultural also. I doubt we'll ever see white handkerchiefs waving from the East Stand and Paxton. Take the South Americans and Italians. They get to walk into dressing rooms and have discussions with board members. They demand the shirts off the backs of players not performing. Dramatic yet emotive and passionate. We're a little more straight-laced than our foreign counterparts on this island of ours. But in terms of our predicament, I ask, what predicament? It's hardly a relegation dog fight with five games to go and if it was and there was no fight left in the team, you'd want to go down to a tune like that sorry band on the Titanic. Yet still they'd be plenty that would prefer to jump on a lifeboat and be far away from the sinking wreckage.
I can still be angry, I can still disapprove or disagree or feel frustration. They’ll even be moments when I’m biting through my nails. But there’s not a chance I’ll stand at White Hart Lane or in a pub or in front of a tv and behave like it's my God given right to have it all on a plate and then pretend I didn’t act like that when I have it served up. The players are custodians of the shirt we wear. We will always be the one constant, from one generation to the next, the supporters (regardless of how we're being marginalised and how some of us are metamorphosing into consumers of football theatre), we are the ones that define the mood of the club. The Lane was not that long ago known for its noise. I begin to fear what will happen in a stadium that holds just under 60k if half that amount are struggling to be heard now.
Through thick and thin, right?
So, with regards to the minority, there’s actually not much I can say to change you. You're built that way. You'll keep on doing what you're doing. There's a demographic that sees things very differently, that believe it is in fact theatre. How can you possibly change that mind-set? You can't. But you can influence others that are seated in the lower tiers, in the traditionally vocal blocks.
It's up to the majority to sing up. Like we do away from home. Like we do at youth games. Sing up and drown out the negativity, remind them that there is more honour in facing adversity and doubt (even if it's arguable there isn't any presently) as one voice by simply being Tottenham. You're there, willing the team on, hoping and praying they do well. It's never guaranteed, its never a certainty. There's nothing in the terms and conditions stipulating you'll always get what you want. It's not just the team that needs supporting, some in the stands are in need of it too.
You're not the journey to the ground. You're not the price of admission. You're not your f**king seat. You're the all-singing, all-dancing Spurs from the Lane.
Love the shirt and follow.
epilogue
There is another angle to all this. Being told that we have to sit down all the time. Nowadays, it's about licenses and health and safety. Then again, there is nothing stopping any of you from dancing the dance we all dance to every other week.
If you're told to sit down by a steward, sit down. Everyone will stand up again in anticipation if say Lennon suddenly fizzes down the flank. Technically speaking, by virtue of all-seaters, standing up in the space where you sit is safe. It's just not legally permitted. Hence that constant dance with the stewards. Maybe at some point in the future the club will agree to follow the likes of Aston Villa (in progress) and Manchester City and have a designated area where supporters can stand. Sunderland are another with a positive outlook. These are just some of the clubs with plans to either allow safe standing or discuss its potential. Then like minded people can take that opportunity to pay to stand there.
Lower ties at football stadia should be standing blocks.
For now, it's about reigniting the current unofficial standing block (the Park Lane Lower) which has lost its spark.
Info here on Safe Standing via the Football Supporters' Federation.
Reader Comments (32)
Couldn't agree more mate, its what separates "fans" from supporters, great blog as always, keep up the blinding work!
COYS
You try to dance around it but the fact i s you are a Redknapp lover / AVB hater. Your only chance of redemption is if this season is way below expectations of the chairman and AVB is sacked. But this would only happen if he places outside top 6. Thereafter, the AVB revolution will well and truly take off and you will eat humble pie. You call yourself a yid, what a JOKE!!!!
Coherently and passionately put, Spooky. Being a true supporter of this great club of ours has to be about loving the shirt through 'thick and thin' and not just 'singing when we're winning.'
I sit in Canada watching the games and I must admit I am embarassed by the way that some of the so called fairweather spurs fans BOO our team. I think that in order to be a true spurs fan you have to take the good and the bad. Not jump off and on the bandwagon when you feel like it. If you want to do that go support Cheatski or Liverpain.
Top stuff. I was going to mention the sitting down/steward thing and then read your epilogue. I don't bother sitting anywhere other than south stand lower, not for fear of sitting next to a boy boy,, but because whenever Im sat at west or east you always get looks when signing or cheering the team on constantly. I don't know who's worse, boo'ers or fans who watch/moan throughout the game, clap when we score but generally say or do fuck all. Sort it out FFS
well said if you cant be the best be the best you can
Great article Spooky. I love spurs, might get to 5 games a season. Each visit is magic, win, lose or draw. Obviously some games are more magic than others. I can't imagine what it must be like to be such a miserable bastard that I turn up and boo one of the things I love the most. Might as well go home and spark out the missus for not having the dinner on the table when I get in.
And emotion aside, there is no way it helps motivate the players to perform any better.
Totally agree that safe standing is the way to go. I was Lower East next to Park Lane Sunday and spent the whole game on my feet, as did most of the crowd around us. The half time booing was pathetic. I wonder how many of those who booed at half time were cheering at full time? Generally the atmosphere is deteriorating at the Lane. Perhaps people can only be arsed to sing if we qualify for Champions League. Because that's our given right isn't it? As for AVB he got the initial shape wrong and then changed it, which is what he's paid to do. He's doing ok so far. We're not cosistent yet but we're grinding out points whilst the rebuild beds down.
@TriniSpurs. Your first visit here mate. Show some respect and do some reading!!!!
Excellent piece as usual Spooks. Hopefully most of these one year supporters will F off somewhere else and leave the club to the fans that have been there throughout.
I boo'd once. John Pratt was the reason. That dates me.
My favourite blog post comment was an incredulous "So we are supposed to sing when the the team isnt winning/playing well?!". Yes, stupid, thats support. Its no coincidence that we look better away, its the Blackburn effect all over again. Tension in the fans leads to tension on the pitch.
Thank you!!!!
And Wow!
What a piece,what everyone believes and what you put so eloquently!
Thank you again!
A great bit of common sense .. if you want to boo...go and watch the 'Bad People' down the road !!
As a fan of many years ... I have to say this topic comes up most seasons ... but Im proud to say I was in The Lane the season we went down to Division 2 ...and ..I may be wrong ... but dont remember a round of boos ever being heard that season !!
We have all seen good and bad teams/players wear that Beautiful White Shirt ... but Im proud to say Ive never booed any of them...I may not have liked them,..and lets be honest .. weve seen some stinkers...but in a matter of a second nearly everyone of them at one point had made me fall in love with them .. with a goal..or pass..or made a major foe look silly ... Spurs Till I Die !!
In reply to Singer. I boo..hooed once when I was 6 years old and standing in the boy's enclosure at the Park Lane End. The steward wouldn't let me ask Ted Ditchburn for his autograph. Don't remember any booing from Tottenham supporters in 1951.
As an ex pat,I don;t get the opportunity,to visit the Lane.Except on the odd occaisional visit to the uk,when it becomes a religeous expirence for one who lives so far away.Cannot understand people that boo,there own team.Yes its bloody frustrating when the team,does not perform as we expect a Tottenham team too.But for christ's sake,give AVB and the team a chance to gell.We have quality players at the Lane,and we also seem to being bring in more of our own youngsters.Similar,to what Fergusson done at ManU in the eary 90's.Hopefully the foundation is there for us to have a similar future.Who knows,but one lives in hope.
Gilz, I was lucky enough to get the great Ted Ditchburn's autograph twice in one afternoon, I put my balacava on backward's the second time and I don't think he recognised me. Swapped one of Ted's autograph's later that week for a Ronnie Burgess, a gobstopper and a conker. Happy wonderful memories of those day's in the fifties and sixties at White Hart Lane, and you are quite right my friend not a boo to be heard anywhere.
Encore!
Good article, well written as usual, No surprise there. Also, I concur.
Nice one, Spooky. I do worry that you'll give yourself an aneurysm one day though, M8. Please tell me you don't blog to relax...you do Tai Chi or summat, right?!
I live across "the Pond" in South Carolina, USA. I am an huge fan of the Spurs and like my neighbor to the North that posted earlier, I am also embarassed by the booing of our team. Just goes to show how shallow some of the "fans" really are when they pretend to "support" the team. My dream is to someday see a match at the Lane. COYS!
Spooky, - I think it right that you take up the Minority=FairweatherFans behaviour yet again!
Such behaviour is degrading, unacceptable and totally counterproductive.
Criticise by all means, albeit in a constructive manner, - but never ever, boo your team off the field, as this only create negative vibes ! Be positive, Be glad in the knowledge that you belong/are part of The Greatest Football Family on Earth!!!
Support our beloved team at ALL times- create positive vibes....
Love The Shirt Love The Spurs
i'm a loyal yid home n away. i've booed them every time weve booed them at home this season. its out of love and passion for spurs as well as frustration at witnessing the boring, no width, pedestrian paced football after seeing spurs last year play some of the best winning football for years. I'm just not sure with avb, i don't think his got a match changing half time talk in him unlike redknapp. I dont even bother listerning to him and nor did i with redknapp because all they talk about is mumbo jumbo. avb said after the game that in the first half when didnt have our form. what form? Weve struggled at home against shocking teams who we can't break down and get behind, played alright at newcastle but should have gone for the win as they were there for the taking and beaten a bad reading side who had a mare. Also people talking about singing and atmosphere can we have some new better longer songs. our songs apart from our traditional ones are awful ie super jan vertonghan and theres only one whoever. whats the point? wonder whose gonna get the rafa tune? coys
Agreed "THROUGH THICK AND THIN" and I have been doing that since 1961. Coys.
It irks me slightly that this piece is written, and well written I might add, after our boys ended up with a win. Is it not a sign of a good team that they take the points after being second best? Even with a bit of luck?
Booing your team is pathetic. Booing at half time when they are one nil down is unforgivable.
A well-written piece Spooky.
However, it amazes me that so many people seem to have had a "positive reinforcement" approach to life drummed into them. By that I mean, when someone fails at something the message has to be "well done, at least you tried". This may be relevant when someone with 2 left-feet and 18 stone overweight is forced to attempt the high-jump or track Lennon at full-pace, because obviously they have no hope of succeeding but at least they tried.
When you have 11 highly skilled athletes who have been training together under a manager alleged to be a tactical leader in his field and they turn-in a performance like the 1st-half last Sunday I don't think a round of applause or holding up billboards with suggestions as to how they could improve in the 2nd half is going to help.
It reminds me of the criticism Harry took over the Darren Bent/Sandra comment.
When I was young enough to play football, coaches got in your face if you didn't perform because they knew that you could produce. The needle was aimed at getting a positive reaction, a sort of "I'll show the old git" type of response, but theses days it seems that no criticism can be tolerated in whatever form.
I wasn't at the Lane on Sunday but I can understand why many booed at half time. Probably some of them were the same ones that were singing loudly just before half-time and trying to boost the team (yes there was singing going on). The booing should have made both players and manager more determined to put things right, and to a certain extent they did in the second half and achieved a win. Good stuff.
I am a firm believer in criticism in whatever form, for without it nothing changes. If you go through life only ever being told how great you are you can bet that you will have screwed-up many things without realising it.
While I believe that AVB needs more time to show what he can do, I still believe that at this stage,with the players he has, he should be able to at least produce a competent team performance even if we do not win, and the first half last Sunday was anything but competent. I'm sure he realises that himself, but if he had any doubts then the crowd reaction at half time should clarify things for him.
Looking forward to seeing how we shape-up against Utd. I'm not expecting a win, but a performance would be great.
DaveK, you're a beacon of sense in a sea of relentless stupidity! The brainless mantra of 'never criticise, never be negative' is what's turning this country into Lalaland, and allowing overpaid, self-absorbed twerps like the vast majority of professional footballers to develop the insularity which typifies many of them - they are apparently beyond criticism, and (like everyone these days) worthy of respect, without actually earning it. My first game at WHL was a 3-0 defeat by Man City, and the lads, including Greaves, Jennings, Mullery, England et al, were quite rightly booed off at the end, and hopefully got a well deserved rollicking from Bill Nick! Are all you blind loyalty merchants social workers or health and safety inspectors in your working lives, because you all seem to have an excess of the huggy-feeliness which is stifling modern Britain.
I have to say that although I agree with most of the sentiment in the original post, I also have to get behind what DaveK has said above .
As a supporter of THFC (All my life, born mid 70's) and also more recently Genoa FC in Serie A (where I actually get to more games simply due to where i live now) i am stunned by the diference in Fans attitudes and what they will accept!
I believe Genoa, in fact, is probably the team that Spooky refers to when talking of Fans taking the shirts off players backs and demanding meetings with managment as happened in Genoa v Sienna earlier in the year. While I would not expect or even like to see this happen at WHL, and particularly not right now, I do believe there is a time and a place for Fans to show their discontent. Let me be clear. It is not here, it is not now, but there is a time and a place.
As DaveK points out. When did it become that positive reinforcement is the only lever that works? Thats nonsense, and it is born out by all of us in our daily lives! If we do badly at work over a quarter, expect to be called into the bosses office and have a strip torn off you! I know I do! If i was underperforming at work and my boss called me in and told me what a great fellow i was ... well. I would be nonplussed and i am not sure that it would neccessarily cause me to work harder. If, however, he called me in and tore a stip off me and ranted and raved and threatened to fire me if I didn't sort my sh1t out, then I probably would.
Postivive reinforcement. There is a time and a place. And that time and place is probably right about now.
The Stick. There is also a time and a place. The 2nd 1/2 of the last 2 seasons spring to mind!
Fan Power. We are losing it. We are stakeholders. We have the right to see our team perform to their best. Not to win, no. We dont have that 'right' ... but we have the right to see them to their best, and we have the right (obligation, even) to voice our discontent if we do not see that happening.
"They only sing when they are winning" would insult me.
"They only sing when they are trying" I would find acceptable.
We signed the boy from Amsterdam you know you know
We might score goals from corners now yido yido
And if a gooner tries to pass he'll put the w****r on his arse
Jan vertonghen TOTTENHAMS number 5
Na na na na na na na na nana nana etc -
This is the song worthy for superjan not the dross being spouted in the park lane end " jan jan superjan". Coys use u imagination not the same old songs recycled year after year!! We are better than that. Come on u lilywhites!!!!
There was something about we boo to show the team that they aren't good enough. Its supposed to motivate them? Let's get one thing straight every spurs player out there already KNOWS that 1 0 down to QPR and 0 0 against Norwich is NOT good enough, no point telling them what they already know, eh?
A great article once again.
I watched the game in Finland from my TV, and it hurt to see the first goal. But I must admit it hurt more when the booing started at half time. You can't judge a work in progress, and I mean the game after 90 minutes. The same does apply to the whole season, but as you said, it's not relegation fight. Not even close.
RingoG, you're spot on.
"They only sing when they are trying" I would find acceptable.
An enjoyable read as ever Spooky and I agree with the whole main bulk of the blog. I can't agree with the epilogue completely though - and even more so some of the reader comments that have followed on from your points in the epilogue.
Firstly with regard to the blog...I agree about the booing. It's just not acceptable. I have read people bemoaning the 'positive reinforcement' and suggesting that to applaud/cheer after a poor performance would not be right - and they have a point. But to abstain from applauding /cheering is one thing and to actively boo/jeer is another. Whatever the boo-boys say in attempt to justify, booing/jeering is an act of hate, regardless of whether some extremely misguided individuals think they are doing it out of love for the club. One guy hit the nail on the head, "when I played football, the coach got in our face when we played badly". Exactly....the coach. And behind closed doors. We should not be airing our dirty laundry in public by booing our own team in full view of our rivals and the media (who could also be described as rivals at the moment). All it serves is to show us up as divided and make us a laughing stock to our opposition. If you really want to air your frustrations about the performance/team/coach/catering....write a letter, write an article, send an email. At least that way you can outline your concerns like an adult rather than just booing like a petulant child in the cereal aisle of a supermarket who has been bought the All Bran instead of the Sugar Puffs he/she felt they deserved. Other than at a pantomime or at a professional wrestling event (same thing in a way) what does the word 'BOOOOO' coming out of an adults mouth achieve other than to make the person shouting it look a bit backwards?
Thats my two cents on the booing issue anyway. I'm sure people will disagree - in fact some of the articulate arguments supporting booing amaze me as the same people who make such seemingly reasoned arguments can only seem to express their considered and detailed opinions of a weekend is by shouting the word 'BOOOOO' really loudly until they get what they want.
On to the epilogue, I think there is a stark stark distinction between someone who actively boo's their team on a Saturday and someone who doesn't like to stand up. I think the implication (not in the epilogue but in the subsequent comments) that people who stand up and make noise at WHL are somehow better supporters is farcical. I was in Block 44 on Sunday afternoon and the people standing up were far more concerned with making obscene gestures at the visiting fans. Rather than watching the game/supporting the team, they spent 4pm-6pm on Sunday coming up with new & different (but admittedly creative) ways to swear at the opposition supporters. Couple the fact that they probably only sat and watched about 5 minutes of the game in total with the estimated 20 WKDs they had no doubt 'strawpedoed' outside the ground before kick off, I can almost guarantee that they remembered none of the game on Monday morning. This is not supporting the team in my view. If it is then I want no part of it. I get that some people like to stand and watch a game and some people like to sit - I think the football authorities have made it a far greater issue than it should be. I think you are right spooky by suggesting designated areas should be rolled out across stadium in the Premier League. But for people to imply that people who stand up somehow create a better at atmosphere in a stadium is pretty preposterous in my opinion.
It's positivity that creates atmosphere, not standing up!! Positivity creates atmosphere. Atmosphere creates positivity. Its the opposite of a vicious circle. WHL used to have it - more recently than you think. I remember being 2-0 down to Aalborg at home at half time in the Uefa Cup 4 years ago. There was no boo's then, and guess what happened.
We need to get that back. We need WHL to be a fortress again and the booing fans are having a far greater detrimental affect to that then they seem to understand.
@petehawkins94 (feel free to follow me on twitter for semi-regular but equally opinionated Spurs opinions)
No more melodramatic guides to supporting THFC, just the odd gentle nod towards crowd reactions where applicable. Say because someone runs onto the pitch and fucks up Chirpy with a crowbar (which would be fine of course).
Fact is, we'll have to all agree to disagree and no matter how I try to get my point across, some still persist in ignoring far too much of it, hence the dizzy running around in the circle we'll all partaking in.
I'll try and think of something funny to say about Woolwich.
I went to watch Barnet last weekend instead.