Levy responds
Monday, February 7, 2011 at 1:02PM Update from anti-Stratford move movement We are N17 on their meeting with Daniel Levy. Key extracts below. All very diplomatic and olive branchy:
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04/02/2011 - Statement & Details of meeting with Daniel Levy (Chairman) and Donna Cullen (Director of Communications)
DL indicated that he believed the views of We Are N17 and our overall goal of ensuring the club will not move to Stratford was detrimental to future of the football club.
We Are N17 believe that a move to Stratford would be detrimental in a different way. Whilst the financial considerations relating to building a new stadium may favour a move, we suggested that this should not be ‘at any cost’. DL and DC agreed and said that they’d stay in Tottenham if it were possible but at this time it is not viable to do so. We suggested that staying in Tottenham would not ‘kill’ the club and that other clubs accept the circumstances of their locality. DC mentioned that THFC would remain a London club and we asked at what point within London do you draw the line and where is too far to move; it was said that we are Tottenham Hotspur, not London Hotspur.
It was agreed that neither party expects the club to have to change its name, regardless of a move.
DL said that he is not interested in selling the club following a move and that he does not believe AEG are interested in buying the club. He also said that he’d be more inclined to sell if the club does not move.
DL promised a full consultation would be conducted with the fans.
DL said that the Northumberland Development Project (NDP) is no longer viable.
It was raised that we believed the club’s communications with fans to be misleading.
The club did not really argue this point and DC said ‘it suited their purpose’ when asked about the content of the statements released thus far.
DL said (despite his recent interview) that there is no other site in mind nor available to move to other that Stratford.
The idea of We Are N17’s involvement in any future ‘breakaway’ club was also mentioned and dismissed.
Full statement can be read here.
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Olympic Stadium/site decision this week apparently. If it's not awarded to us, then what?
For all this talk of Levy being shrewd and a master negotiator you think placing all eggs in one basket is perhaps a tad risky considering he's playing with the future of our club, right? Because his stance is the NDP is not viable and that's that (and we'll be told afterwards why that's the case but confidentiality reasons remain paramount at this time) so we'd have to look elsewhere, outside of N17 no matter what. Which might be as non-viable in cost and effort and time as perhaps re-looking at the NDP whilst awaiting the council to help themselves by helping us. And it still remains cloudy in terms of the apparent urgency to move move move when there's a possibility Stratford might not happen, leaving us where exactly in the long term? Do people who support the move understand this element of the argument because it's the sticking point for me, always has been, and people seem to dismiss it with plenty of 'Levy knows best' types of comments.
So let's hope Levy does know best and is conjuring up a magic trick to make it look impossible to stay where the Hart is so that if the OS is not awarded to us, he then does what he knows he can do to claw back the NDP and be called a genius for doing it - whilst the anti-move crowd are told to calm down because the chairman always had our best intentions at heart, he just can't be displaying them out in the open. Because it's not like you'd show everyone your hand whilst playing a game of poker, no?
Yadda yadda yadda. I live in hope.
Also, Martin Cloake (who addressed a fine letter to the club via his blog) has received a response. Who would think after all these years of my good self addressing the club that if I stopped short of sending dead animal parts in parcels along with the correspondence that I too could have shared something similar. Shame the club failed to consider the efforts of hunting down said animals and...well, let's leave it there.
Martin's original open letter here.
The blog covering off the clubs response to him here.
ta,
Reader Comments (69)
Who's DC?
I'm losing hope. Was there any anti Stratford singing 'up your end' so to speak.
Lets just pray that the OS is awarded to the those muppets from Upton Park... I have nothing against the football team, but their owners what a trio.
If we dont get it then maybe the NDP could be re-worked, a bit of sponsorship money, maybe some help from Haringey council, sell the naming rights etc, etc
Great series of "what ifs". I hope we don't get the OS, just to see what actually happens. There is ALWAYS an alternative and businesses can never work on an assumption that there isn't.
I as well hope that West Ham get the OS I know that the Pickets Lock site is up for sale. Is it big enough? I don't know. I know there's a small golf club there, which could be bought out if needed.As for transport, people will come and the club could arrange with Bus companies to ferry the fans to and from the stadium, from stations in the area.
I just wish that old dog karen brady would keep her muzzle.
On the next series of the apprentice I hope Sugar makes her Iron his clothes before filming, silly old dog.
just a query to the anti stratford lot on here, at what price does the NPD oprion have to become to make you think it is not viable? Or would you be determined to go ahead with it no metter the cost and no matter the transport links?
It seems some of you want it even if it means we cant invest in the team for the next 10 years. Seems strange to me, if you have the best interests of the club at heart. If we want to progress it has to be stratford. If not then anyone who EXPECTS more than a 5th place finish any season is living in fantasy land.
Anybody know how the UEFA financial fair play regulations deal with new stadiums being built.
Talking about this with a mate the other day about this whole non-viable issue. Wondered if it was related to that at all?
I think it's back to Plan A for the Olympic Park now. West Ham too much of a risk, been proven too many times football and athletics do not mix, and public opinion will determine our bid is blackballed. Unless the PR guy we employed turns out to be a miracle worker - hold on World cup in Qatar..........
As far as I can see the anti Stratford lobby consists of those fans who think the club has some kind of unlimited cash supply, the kind of fans who pretend the Leeds and Portsmouth financial meltdowns never happened. The reality is football clubs, even those like Spurs, are relatively small businesses with a limited capacity to service debt. I have been going to White Hart Lane for the past 30 years, this doesn't blind me to the problems of the location. If moving 5 miles means we can compete with the Emirates in years to come rather than becoming a second tier club I really don't see the problem.
If the NDP plan goes ahead you need't worry about the UEFA financial fair play regulations, we will be well over 450M in debt, unlikely to make either european competition for the foreseable future. Man U are paying 67m interest on 700M debt per year, so we will be paying over 30M.The increase in gate revenues and naming rights are unlikely to cover the it.
i dont care where we move as long as it has a north london postcode.
Stadium costs don't count for the UEFA rules. Transfer fees do though.
Unless you are in a position to pay cash for a new stadium (Man City say) the Eufa rules will apply. Any payment of interest or repayment of principal will be a cost in the accounts, which will have to be balanced. More money spent on servicing debt = less money to improve the team.
Confidentiallity aside, Levy has to keep all his cards close to his chest if we are to get the best outcome, whatever it is. This is like a game of poker!
It is interesting that £50m has been spent on a planning application that is not viable BUT much extra cost came from further amendments to the scheme that meant housing lost, old buildings retained, commercial floor space lost. The redsign & extra analysis cost millions but at that stage we were "pot committed" and had to follow through to get consent. Section 106 costs also add millions.
However, whatever Levy's plan is, he has to start from the position that we cannot afford NDP....because if we win the OS he has a very strong argument with the Council that NDP is not viable, we have a viable alternative, so Haringey you need to ease our burden otherwise we are off. I cannot see how Haringey can make it that much cheaper for us to build the NDP. Even ifthey dropped all S.106 contributions and allowed more housing, and compulsory purchased land for us, it would still be millions more expensive, and in a shit hole area and inaccessible.....SO if we win, it is likely Levy will take us to stratford BUT he can cover his back by saying Haringey could not make it attractive enough to stay...its their fault.
If we lose the bid, then our negotiating position with haringey is weakened, BUT Levy has already said we will have to move out of the Borough. This maybe true or maybe a bluff that enables him to still threaten the Council to help us or lose us. But whatever is the outcome of the OS bid, he has to maintain that the NDP is not viable otherwise it totally undermines our ability to negotiate, and achieve a better, and cheaper outcome.
Levy is holding a bunch of cards and NONE of us know what they are. If he were to tell us what they are, then his opponents would also know and the game would be lost. He has to play it this way to keep strength in his negotiating position. If we win the OS bid, then he will complete "the nuts" hand and manipulate the opponents as he sees fit. If we lose then he has to do some bluffing to get the best outcome..
We will not know what cards he has until the hand is over, so until then fans will have to keep guessing. IMO, what is not helpful in the interim is Spurs fans protesting. The time for that is when we know what the genuine options are and the reasons for possibly leaving N London.
"Finance costs directly attributable to construction" are excluded. The Glazers loans aren't attributable to construction so they are in. Financing a new stadium is in. You wouldn't count interest payments on any loans for it.
He's doing what he has to do, it's frustrating that it looks like he wants Stratford above and beyond all and I think he's telling a lie to suggest he would not sell the club at some point. Although if we stay in N17 because OS doesn't happen then he is more likely to sell up. Which will prove he's in it for the money, but then he's an investor so no surprise with that.
I would ask people to look at other big clubs who have built or expanded their stadiums in recent years - off the back of success on the pitch. That has to come first. And if Levy thinks that having a 60k stadium will guarantee people wanting to stay at the club, then he hasn't thought it through yet. It's not going to be as easy as he thinks because the club has to be successful on the pitch leading into the move. Otherwise we'll still lose all our top players regardless of what we offer then.
'Build it, and they will come'
"The club did not really argue this point and DC said ‘it suited their purpose’ when asked about the content of the statements released thus far."
Enough said.
I'm tired of this Lammy brigade. None of them knows anything about business and business negotiations, and hang on every Levy’s word in this process that they don’t like and/or don’t understand. But they are all hugs and kisses with everyone that has the same interest in Spurs as Brady bitch has.
If you don't count interest payments on loans for a new stadium then it is possible for a club to be losing money year on year while complying with the Eufa rules, at what point would increasing levels of debt and therefore interest payable actually breach the rules ?
DC is Donna Cullen l presume ?
So, an audience has been held with the club and as "confidentiality prevents further detail" can we all get on with supporting the on field goings on and get back to the football until such a time as media hype, political agendas and guessing games are no longer clouding such a negative process of pointless arguing until the situation becomes clearer and people can form opinion on facts rather than trash talk.
Nice to see the poker theory mentioned again though ; )
If you don't count interest payments on loans for a new stadium then it is possible for a club to be losing money year on year while complying with the Eufa rules, at what point would increasing levels of debt and therefore interest payable actually breach the rules ?
Depends what your debt is for. I think the logic is that if you build something then it has a fixed value so could be sold off to pay the debt and preserve the club itself as a going concern. If you spend it on transfer fees then you will probably not get it back and there is no means of repaying the debt.
Brady is a rabid dog that needs to be put down
Spooky, great site, was wandering if there's a way of avoiding typing in the code before every post, cos posting at work without getting caught is all about speed. Hot, Greasy, bad-ass speed.
Get the feeling the NDP will some how become viable again if we don't get Stratford.
Mind you, given the above - I'm starting to be in favour of the move... Speaking as one in the 20k range off getting a season ticket. Plus of course the fact we need a bigger stadium if we want to keep these class players we have.
If the NDP isn't viable, what happens to all the desolate and boarded up buildings around the stadium. Would be criminal if they were allowed to be left like that for a long period of time.
Poker this and poker that...... what a load of bollocks!
If Levy and his American mates win the bid, THFC is gone, forever.
If Levy and his American mates don't win the bid, Levy has to do one and let someone take over who will complete the NDP or design a more 'viable' alternative.
The space is there, but the will isn't; much more money to be made off the back of THFC by forming a fake Spurs in Stratford.
LEVY OUT!
I honestly believe that Harringey and Spurs are in a game of chicken - Harringey are not willing to work with the club regards costs or even compulsory purchase orders until the results of theOlympic Stadium bid is known. On Spurs' side there is a window where if the club wins the bid they can still back-out and during this window Harringey would be staring at the abyss. The other issue is where does Enfield stand on this? on the one hand they talk about 'blight' but they haven't made any approaches to look at any sharing of the financial burden on Harringey or the Club. Regards moving out of N17, where else is there in the whole of London where we could possibly relocate that has the transport links, road infrastructure etc... Are there any brownfield sites left around Kings Cross or are there any options for moving to Tottenham Hale? I'm just confused - I can't see how any of this is helping the team to focus on, at the very least, securing CL football for next season ...
The urgency of the move is because a bloody good site is available. Anyother future possible location will not be handed to us, near complete, on such a plate. THAT is why it's urgent.
Northumberland is simply too expensive, so if we stay there, we will continue with the existing stadium - for ever.
In the future, big, global, successful clubs playing in the CL will not have 35k seater stadiums - FACT!
Call me a glory hunter if you will, but I'd rather continue the tradion of being a big (relatively) successful club, than settle for a future of mid table and the occasional semi-final just so long as it's in Tottenham.
Reginos, the Picketts Lock site may be for sale but next to it is an open sewage treatment site, even on a good day you can smell it from the 17th. If we build our stadium there we really will draw comparisons to the Emirates!!
'On Spurs' side there is a window where if the club wins the bid they can still back-out and during this window Harringey would be staring at the abyss.'
Levy will not back out if the bid is won. This is a once in a lifetime chance to make a fortune on the back of fans so loyally blind, that they're prepared to continue paying the investment banker who took their club away by following his new and corporate/'visitor' friendly Olympic Park Project based in EAST LONDON!
If we agree that in order Spurs to become a world-class club aiming to win domestic and international titles they need a new bigger stadium inside a maximum two to three years period then the most fair should be ANYONE who has such a plan and can GUARANTEE to the best possible degree the VIABILITY of the PLANS and of the CLUB for the years to come, to make these plans public and try to convince the majority of the estimated 20 million fans of Spurs worldwide. Staying in its current area would be a priority choice if there would be concrete viable plans concerning that area. If not and given that the club will retain its current name and by this it will continue to carry with it its history and traditions it should be given priority to alternative plans inside, at first, North London or, next, the rest of London which would cover better the needs of the club concerning cost, long term, transportation, proximity, facilities and image.
TMWNN,
Levy out? Are you insane? You talk shit mate i think you should be quiet. I bet you hardly spend any money or time on spurs anyway. Only a gooner would talk about the club the way you are, after enjoying our most succesfull period for god knows how long.
Levy's proved he's a decent chairman, lets not forget we all want the same thing and lets keep enjoying the rise of Tottenham no matter which way we end up going.
what??!.... has been the investment by harringey over the years etc from mp lammys donuts inline with what is an obvious commercial reality as thfc keeps up with the EPL demand etc??? who probably are to blame for the levy club development plans public farce now waging....brady has lost the plot but then.... she suffers from tension at the end of the month ..dont you know...............the interesting two faced political spat.....and media crap all have to face the finance qustion regardless of stupid faces and comments...... the cincinnatti kid levy has a trump card im sure...........meanwhile in gotham city! .......cmon u spurs!!
Devonshirespur, I think you have summed it up well. I know that Levy is the most hard nosed negotiater you have ever come across and he has to play it this way, he has no choice. He simply cant expose his true position as it will weaken 50% of his argument - not even to his own supporters.
Regardless of what we say, how loud we shout or how many times we demonstrate outside the ground,
he will continue to play it this way. Even if he loses the OS vote, im pretty sure he will appeal based upon the fact that the Spurs bid is the most financially viable - its hard to argue against im afraid.
We simply have to wait and see what pans out!!
PS, not sure anybody knows, but Chelsea is looking at a site within the new Earls Court development, money talks im afraid!!
http://www.talksport.co.uk/sports-news/football/premier-league/5114/5/exclusive-levy-i-will-do-whatever-it-takes-get-us-stratford
.....they all want top dollar......what a world eh!.......as long as we dont end up prawn faced and arrogant pricks with silly neckscarves.....like the goon show down the road....
Spooky, he has to say that otherwise he is screwed both ways.............
Yeah I know. I do get it that Levy is playing hard ball and he's hardly going to reveal his true colours. But it's frustrating, we just have to deal with it now till decision day.
This is going to get messy..........whatever is said this week is just going to be the start. I don't think any decision is going to be accepted as being final by us or West Ham. Is it the Mayor who signs all this off?
Lets just concentrate on football eh! CL tickets go on sale this week,so a guaranteed morning of frustration shouting at a computer screen. Happy days.
success and failure at this level is more crucial and finer ........ levy wnats to maximise our potential...in this climate.......but.....50 mill ?was payed by a mad russian.....its gone beyond any normal world and any sense of reality...........it may all melt one day ......the crazy train keeps on running.....
Im afraid so, it really is a poker game and im afraid its all about money, sad as it is.............
I get told in work all day and every day, CASH IS KING!!! What a world we live in!!!!
I think we should have employed Brady to do our PR, everything she says about our bid can be stripped apart, might sell papers but no substance to it.
Waiting list at theirs - nope.
Tearing down the stadium and wasting money - actually no Karen, same as the original plan really - keeping the groundworks but getting rid of the the temporary structure. The clue is in the word.
I have a very strange feeling about all of this..........must be the Henry Percy.
The fact I know nothing about the West Ham bid says it all really. All Brady does is talk about Tottenham. Funny that. West Ham always talking about Tottenham. Obsessed.
Basically, the west ham stadium would be used for football, athletics, cricket, tennis, swimming, knitting and dogging.
ChrisYid,
I pity you. Your club is on the verge of being taken away from you by an investment banker and turned into a corporate cash cow stuck out in east London. An area where Tottenham has never had, apart form an away day at the pikeys, and never will have any business being in, and you have the gall to liken me to a gooner.
Let's add up the sum total of Spurs' success since Levy and the worlds tightest billionaire, Joe Lewis, have been in charge of THFC in the last 10 years:
1. 2008 League cup final winners (aka. the mickey mouse cup)
Impressive? Not exactly a list of honour is it? Certainly nothing to write home about. They've done nothing more than balance the books for 10 years. Is Levy a good business men? Yes. Is he a good chairman? Putting the name THFC out to bid suggests not, unless you're a gormless, glory hunting no nothing gimp who wants to lick the balls of the bloke who is about to fuck you up the arse.
Fuck Levy and fuck you!
SAY NO TO STRATFORD!
TMWNN,
Youre the type of mug who'd never be happy, you just want to whinge. Nothing you say is constructive. Other people on here are against stratford, but they dont act like spoilt little gayboys. I feel ashamed you support Tottenham, although i think youre a gooner on a wind-up.
Spurs have released a pic of the proposed stadium in Stratford.
http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/futureplans/news/club-releases-image-of-proposed-60000-capacity-stadium-in-olympic-park-070211.html
http://www.insidethegames.biz/images/stories/Olympic_Stadium_in_Tottenham_mode_February_2011.jpg
wtf? there are people break dancing outside the sodding ground. BREAK DANCING??!!! Bill Nicks gates nowhere to be seen, but we get volley ball and frigging break dancers??
When did ENIC ever put their own money into Tottenham? Exactly.
People should remember how ENIC acquired the majority of Shares in THFC. £15 million loan in return for 15 Pence a Share at the time when the Market Trading value was 23 Pence a Share. The man is a piss taker and will sell Tottenham down the swanny. Levy Out.
Im proud of the fact we live wihin our means, no one respects chelsea or man city. If you guys think levy and enic are bad.......jesus christ. Its just a case of dumb people shouting uneducated bollocks. Youre definitely gooners or hammers, and are probably a little bit gay.