Not Tonight Sandra, I've Got A Headache
Monday, February 21, 2011 at 12:00PM guestblog by chrisman
Sandra Redknapp is going to have a lot of time to catch up on her knitting over the next few
nights, because her husband Harry has a case of what's commonly known as 'selection headache'. Usually he's a sexual tyrant, but recent events have given him a bit of a 'narky miff' and left him unable to 'smash it' with any real conviction.
Now that we've all calmed down and had a chance to think about Tuesday's Triple Epic-Burger, a few things are becoming clear. One fact, lost in the ethereal San Siro mist, was that it was our first away win in this season's Champions League. Actually, it was only our second away win in the competition, ever (the other being over Feyenoord in 1962-63).
More importantly, the win was based on the defensive stability that served us so well in reaching the Promised Land in the first place. These may not seem like things that would normally give you a headache, but when Harry starts thinking about why we were suddenly so solid, he might come to some troubling conclusions.
So what was different from the away days of Bremen, Enschede and Milan last year? The obvious answer is that the Gallas-Dawson axis is now in full effect. But that doesn't explain the often-frantic defending and lack of shape and discipline against Sunderland, Blackburn and Everton (to name a few). Nor does it explain it's absence in Milan on Tuesday.
Sure, the players raised their performance levels for the big one, but if there is one thing you can't really accuse Spurs of these days, it's lack of effort in the 'smaller' games. The commitment is there. But the stability of last year is not. King has been a big miss, but we have a good replacement in Gallas. Huddlestone's absence has been more keenly felt, simply because no one has been able to adequately fill his shoes. Until now.
Sandro, please step forward. You are the man to pick up the gauntlet laid down by Big T's vastly-underestimated defensive displays. People tend to throw around, in a willy-nilly manner, all kinds of comments about Tom's defensive abilities, or lack of them. 'He's slow, lumbering, lazy, a big girl's blouse'. Well willy this nilly - he's a bloody good defender.
We sometimes forget that he started life as a centre half. He has an ingrained defensive nous that other midfielders will never have. He instinctively knows where the centre-half wants him to be. He knows how and where an attack is going to develop. He knows when to tackle and when to jockey. And as well as Wilson and JJ have played at times this season, neither of them will ever have any of these abilities. Physically, they have it all. Technically, they are excellent. Mentally, they lack that extra couple of percent of discipline, concentration and decisiveness that separates very good players from great ones.
JJ and Wilson are both at their best when they are running, and using their fantastic pace and athleticism. But when your main role should be as a shield to the back 4, it's often best to restrict your movement to a few square yards. To really work effectively as a unit with your 2 centre-backs, you have to be close to them and move with them. JJ and Wilson are too erratic and spasmodic with their positioning and movement. Both could potentially work well in a 2 or 3 man midfield, but with someone to sweep up behind them and allow them to maraud around the pitch.
Sandro on the other hand is at his happiest about 5 yards in front of the centre-backs, ready to make a challenge outside or clearance inside the box. When people talk about the Makelele role, they usually associate it with passing and starting attacks. What they often underestimate is the selfless and disciplined nature of the role. Rarely should you pass the halfway line (an attitude people criticize Big T for having). Even the full backs can get forward more. Sandro loves doing that grimy, filthy defensive work.
Against AC Milan, with Sandro match-fit, bedded-in and playing well, we comfortably repelled their attacks. Ok, there were a couple of headers, but we followed the tried and tested template of last season - sit back, let the defenders defend, and hit them on the break. Apart from the 2 headers, Gomes was untroubled. We kept them at arms length on the edge of the box. Calm, controlled, clinical. The compact triangle of CBs and DM could not be penetrated by the trio of Ibra, Robinho and Pato.
So where from here? The easy answer is 'straight ahead', with a simple tweak of swapping Palacios for Modric. But will Harry be willing to effectively have Sandro do a double-leapfrog over Wilson and JJ? Or will he be a bit sly, and with a nod to pragmatism 'rest' van der Vaart and go with JJ or Wilson in the middle with Modric, and Sandro behind?
In reality, if we're only playing 1 up top, van der Vaart needs to be in the team - if fit. That leaves 1 space in the midfield alongside Modric and van der Vaart, and considering you want the magical pair to have as much freedom as possible, it makes sense to play a disciplined, selfless player with them. That player is Sandro. There are, however, other options....
One idea I'm sure Harry has toyed with is playing van der Vaart in a wider role. Van der Vaart excels most when he has space and time, and he doesn't always find that when playing in the congested central area with big bruising PL players. So moving him to a wider starting position may give him more room to pick up the ball and use that murderous left foot. He played wide right in some games earlier in the season and it worked. It could easily work again.
Another positive for this formation is that Lennon is apparently pretty comfortable switching flanks and cutting inside with his dribbling. So you get 2 great creators out wide, and 3 solid men in the middle (Sandro, Modric, JJ/Wilson). Essentially all you are doing is swapping Pienaar for JJ or Wilson, and in doing so are giving yourselves more speed and power in the middle to give your match-winners more freedom to win matches.
Despite all of this, I'm sure it's also going to be hard for Harry to resist the temptation to re-unite Crouch and Defoe up front. Blackpool will obviously come forward and leave us lots of space. Defoe could bag a couple and get his confidence back in time for the run-in. But will loading the strikers and leaving the midfield relatively bare (Lennon-Sandro-Modric-VDV) play right into Blackpool's hands?
The pragmatist in Harry surely will not allow him to be so gung-ho, and that means dropping one of the seemingly undroppable trio of Modric, Lennon and van der Vaart. All logic therefore points towards a 5-man midfield, but then again Harry's feelings for the Defoe-Crouch partnership have always been about more than mere logic. It's just something he feels comfortable with. But on recent performances, both from the team and Defoe individually, it seems the days of the 4-4-2 may be numbered, especially away from home. And since the next 2 games are indeed away from home, Harry is going to have to make some tough, emotional choices.
Sandro, Palacios, Jenas, Modric, Pienaar, Kranjcar, Lennon, VDV (edit: not so fit). That's 8 fit and on-form midfielders. Good luck Harry, and Sandra...call me.
Reader Comments (53)
442, JD and Crouch up front, Niko in for VDV. That'll work.
I think this post somewhat downplays the fact that Sandy and Sergeant worked brilliantly AS A UNIT against Milan, but overall I can't find much to disagree with. The Modric/Thudd partnership was the axis for our superb run-in at the end of the last campaign, so it would be great if Modric/Sandro could emulate that dynamic. It's a lot to put on a young player's shoulders - but Wlitshere is showing it can be done
I was equally impressed with Sandro and Palacios. Didn't think they'd work so well together in the middle but part of me believes it was down to the occasion and back in the rough and tumble of the Prem I think we need to be far more attacked minded than sit back, soak it up and counter. One or the other for me.
Whatever team he puts out we need to just make sure we win, claiming third and putting some distance between Chelsea and ourselves.
On another note, probably good the boys got a weekend off but boy was it boring without Spurs playing!
VdV is injured. Midfield should be Krank, Sandro, Modders and Lennon with Crouch and Defoe up top. Back 4 of Gallas, Daws, Bassong and BAE.
I thought Chrisman died. Welcome back. Good article, not as controversial as your previous efforts. You bottle job. Anyone got any odds on Defoe as first scorer? About time he broke his duck.
wait..no...we cant be...there is no way we can be...i cant believe we are being....optimistic?!?!!?
I think you are underestimating the significance of corluka - he offers stability on the right flank and also exerts a calming influence on both gomes and the right cb. His understanding with lennon is also excellent, i've felt that the whole team has been more natural and comfortable since he's been back in the side
Midtable calls out our name, but we ignore the hussy.
Agreed Billiybob, Hutton is the route of most of our problems at the back.
Charlie > Hutton
Every day of the week.
Spot on Billybob!
if Hutton returns in place of Corluka a more defnsive central midfiled comn=bination might be helpful, ie keep Wilson and Sandro in place, with a three of Krank/Pienaar, Modric and Lennon in front and Crouch as sole striker. Defoe or Pav to come on in second half. Probably opt for Krank actually as he carries more goal threat.
Quite honestly I dont care if Crouch (or any of our strikers) score as long as we get three points - I'd take a scrappy 1-0 right now!
Absolutely agree with your comments on the Thud. I thought Pienaar was outstanding on Tuesday, a revelation in fact. What great problems to have, shows how far we have come.
Huddlestone is a good player but well overrated by a lot of Tottenham fans.
More often than not goes missing when it gets busy in the middle.
Don't worry, I'm not underestimating Corluka. I'm a huge fan, always have been. It's rare you find a full back who is so defensively sound and solid, and is also so skilled on the ball. Pretty amazing that he is only 25, given the experience and calmness he shows. One criticisn people had was that he didn't bomb forward enough, but after the Hutton experiment we can see that it's perhaps better to feed Lennon rather than bomb forward yourself. Hutton didn't disgrace himself, and he put in some decent performances but in pratically every aspect of play Corluka is clearly superior. Same with when Hudd was missing from the side last season, sometimes people don't appreciate how good someone is till they are gone.
VDV is apparently out, so perhaps this makes things easier, and provides possibly a kind of last-chance saloon for the 4-4-2 on the road. And if you are playing 2 up top, and Lennon and Pienaar wide, you have a tough choice over who to play alongside Modric. My bet is Pienaar-Wilson-Modric-Lennon behind BigSmall up top. Of course with VDV out and Deofe off form, this could represent a chance for Kranjcar to be given a more free attacking role....he'll be lucky.
For all the talk of Sandro, people forget how superb Palacios was. I guarantee it will be Palacios and Modric in the middle with Pienaar and Lennon on the wings and Defoe in for VDV. Sandro has not done enough to be selected ahead of Palacios and Pienaar's pace and work rate will always mean he starts ahead of kranjcar, and rightly so.
As for the person saying Huddlestone is overrated - absolute rubbish. Watch the first leg of the Young Boys game and then come back to me. The minute Thud is fit, he should and will go straight into the team. He's a wonderful wonderful player
"Usually he's a sexual tyrant, but recent events have given him a bit of a 'narky miff' and left him unable to 'smash it' with any real conviction."
Look. I don't need this kind of imagery placed in my head first thing in the morning. Completely uncalled for. Straight red, and three match ban for you.
Otherwise, excellent post.
I'm a bit worried about this one. Milan didnt attack for long periods. Blackpool wont stop attacking. They have had ages off to recooperate (they had clearly tired in Jan and Feb) and Adam is there with his set pieces. Curse our luck that Corluka AND Kaboul are both injured. Kaboul would have been ideal at right back for this one. Quick enough to stem their raids, big enough to stick on the near post for corners. We'll probably have Hutton RB now, and he cannot defend. Given that, I could see the Palacios / Sandro axis retained, Lennon right, Modders left and Kranj just behind Crouch. Problem is though, if they score early (which they tend to do, and we tend to allow).
Dont underestimate how tricky this game is, with our injury problems. I know the arguments, we have a big squad, one of our players makes more money than all of theirs put together etc, but come back to the real world and you see a Blackpool team that is just that: a team. Few injuries (other than goalkeepers oddly enough), they've played together for a while and have a game plan (2 wide men, Adam as the play maker, ruthless explpitation of set pieces). They will throw men forward all night long and its that which worries me. Will we take our chances (we'll have loads)? If we dont, I tell you now: we'll lose. Because they will score for absolutely certain.
Here's the plan Harry: start with a solid line up (as outlined above). Instruct every player NOT to give away corners or freekicks close to the area. Seriously, it is better to let them get the cross in most of the time. Keep possession in the early stages, quieten down what will be an absolutely fanatical crowd. START WITH CROUCH. This is no time for experimenting with Pav. Crouch is required to hold the ball up and to defend set pieces (stick him on the near post every time: their standard corner is whipped in lowish, just clearing a normal-sized near post defender. An abnormally sized attacker there will mean they have to change their plan). Uses Lennon ad nauseum. Blackpool lack pace at the back and tire alarmingly early in games. With that in mind, unleash Defoe with maybe 20 to go. If we are ahead by then, his pace will destroy them as they pour forward. Take a win - any win. Nothing flashy required. Its squeeky bum time.
COYS!!
Choices, choices:
Dr Octopus
Begbie Daws Willy BAE
Lennon Sandro Modders Krank
Defoe Crouch
Even if VdV was available (which he isn't) i would've been tempted to drop him anyway, horses for courses and all that... gotta be 442 away from home against Blackpool, they play a high line defensively and with JD's pace he'll have a field day... the Lino's gonna be busy!
If we do go with 442 then the front 2 need to put in a real good shift, especially when we haven't got the ball. Blackpool are a good side, like to get the ball down and attack in numbers so defensively we need to be disciplined, and keep mistakes to a minimum. When we've got the ball we have to move it quickly as there should be space to counter attack, they're not blessed with pace at the back so this should be where we get some joy. As always, away from home ball retention is the key, stay tight and when we break we'll get chances so we just have to make sure we're clinical when they come.
Save Peanut & Sarge for Wolves, it'll be a tougher test physically and we'll need their graft.
'As for the person saying Huddlestone is overrated - absolute rubbish. Watch the first leg of the Young Boys game and then come back to me. The minute Thud is fit, he should and will go straight into the team. He's a wonderful wonderful player'
If he was that good, why hasn't he been snapped up by one of the 'big' clubs. It's not like he's new on the scene or anything. He's a good player, not a 'wonderful wonderful' one. Toward the end of last season he started to regularly put in some heavy weight (pun intended) performances, but, long term, the jury is still out for me.
As for 'absolute rubbish',check out his scoring record; 7 league goals in 6 years. Almost 1 a year. Wonderful, eh? Tut!
TMWNN, IMHO Huddlestone is a superb player and he suits our style of football down to the ground... great touch, vision and delivery. It's no surprise that when he plays we look more dangerous as a team and create more chances, I think we've missed him massively. And to state his goal tally as your proof as to why you feel the 'jury is still out' is well wide of the mark.
Under Harry's guidance he has been one of our most improved players, at the end of last season and up until his injury this season he was putting himself about a lot more, aggression not his natural game but he was showing a lot more fight and bite in the middle of the park, a dimension he needed to add to his game to take him to the next level.
His role is simple: protect and serve... off the ball his reading of the game is very good and with experience he'll only improve. On the ball he's sublime, he gets the ball out of his feet and moves it on asap, a must in today's game especially when he fires it out to Bale and Lennon, allowing them to attack before the opposing team has time to get numbers back. Plus, he and Modric together in midfield are awesome, a perfect balance.
I'll be surprised if our future England central midfield doesn't have Huddlestone as it's lynchpin, the lad's got everything to become top class and at only 24 has his best years well ahead of him.
Time will tell. Great on the ball, dozy off it, and for someone supposedly such a great striker of the ball. Where are the goals?
TMWNN – with Modric, Lennon and Bale alongside him in a midfield quartet, it’s probably a strict instruction of Harry’s for Huddlestone NOT to get into the box. It’s not his job to score goals. It’s not his job to be within 30 yards of the goal. If he is in the oppositions box, then he is leaving the back door open. Lampard can score 20 goals a season because he has 2 players behind him in midfield sweeping up. Huddlestone has none. And as for a top club not being after him, don’t forget that he wasn’t even a regular at the beginning of last season. Give them a chance! But after a few games he was pretty much ever present. In the best Spurs team for 20 years. That should tell you a lot about how good he is. We could win the league with Huddlestone and Corluka ever present, and there would still be people who say ‘for me, he’s too lazy’. Some people will simply never rate certain players.
In over 150 games for Chelsea, Makalele scored 2 goals. Speaks volumes
Chrisman - "We could win the league with Huddlestone and Corluka ever present". I'm with you on Tom, I think he is an excellent player and would grace any team in the PL. However I really think you are going a bit over the top of Corluka though. He is incredibly slow and a liability against a team that plays with a genuine winger. Even Pedersen worried the living daylights out of him when he came on for Blackburn a couple of weeks ago. Corluka played most of last season and rarely looked anything more than a decent right back. He would be one I'd be looking to upgrade before too long. Hopefully Mr Walker will do the trick, while I have enormous hopes for Kaboul converting to a full time right back. Seriously, on the rare occassions he has played there (City away, first half of Wolves at home)he has been nothing short of outstanding. I still harbour some hopes for Bassong making the swtich on the other side (therby giving us a big, fast back four), but those hopes are rapidly fading - partly cos of BAE's form and partly cos Bassong is just starting to look like a cr@p footballer
exploretheSandro,com
not
expoloretheSandra.com.
Simples.
Sandra only plays as a striker and is not from Brazil.
Chrisman, this isn't some personal hate vendetta against Huddlestone (I save that for Jenas); Tom's a good player, but people, including yourself, have got a bit carried away.
You got it wrong saying Sandro hardly moves 5 yards pass the CDs. Sandro, yes, is disciplined defensively, but you will often find him bombing forward. Case in example, the pass that lead to our 2nd goal against Bolton.
THudd for me is an absolute must when he is fit and ready to go. It is no coincidence our form has being staggering since he went away injured, that's because we do not have anyone to laser guide the ball to the wings from deep inside our territory or even 20 yards or more away. I hope he returns soon.
For tomorrow, we will have hands full but I am anticipating a hard drawn out win. It is going to be one of those days where will scratch our head and wonder why we support Spurs in the first place. I can't predict what 'Arry will do tomorrow (he has never being one to be predictable with his lineup), but tomorrow I will have us lineup like this:
Gomes
Hutton/Gallas * Daws * Gallas/Bassong * BAE
Lennon * Modric * Sandro * Pienaar
Kranjcar
Crouch
Personally I will leave Defoe on the bench as he has not being able to find his form. Tomorrow is not a gimmie match where he is going to be presented with a ton of opportunities. On the other hand Kranjcar has taken his chances well when presented to him and I believe he will link up well with Crouch cause Blackpool enough problems.
For those who dislike Hutton, you might want to rethink your position:
Van der Vaart heaps praise on Spurs fullback Hutton
http://nz.sports.yahoo.com/football/news/article/-/8879833/van-der-vaart-heaps-praise-on-spurs-fullback-hutton/?
Rafael van der Vaart has heaped praise on Tottenham fullback Alan Hutton.
The Scot has found his feet at Spurs this season.
Van der Vaart told the Sunday Mail: "Alan is a fantastic player. He scores goals, is strong and gets up and down the right-hand side. He is a winner and we need players like that.
"It shows Scotland have some excellent players and I hope they can put the whole package together to qualify for another major tournament."
If Rafa rates him then we need to take a long hard look at ourselves.
Shame, shame on every single one of you.
It's funny when you read these blogs how we all have different perceptions of our players abilities.
I think I must have seen everyone of them slagged off at sometime for various shortcomings which makes our season so far all the more remarkable.
I think Rafa just wants to be loved by everyone. Hutton is fine to share the role with Charlie unless we come up against one of the big teams where I would have charlie all day.
Im going for:
Gomez
Bill Daws Seb BAE
Lennon Sandro Modric Niko
Pav Crouch
3 changes from Milan game will do me.
Hutton for Charlie, Modric for Sandro and Defoe for VdV. Or Niko for Vdv, if he wants to go 4-5-1. But leave Sandro on the bench, Palacios is doing well at the moment so to go with experience would be my preference.
Blackpool are the "freefall" team of the moment and 3 points is a must, plus Chelsea don't seem to be responding too well to pressure at the moment, so it would be nice to turn up the heat a little bit on them.
Next 3 games we play Blackpool, Wolves and West Ham and they have Man Utd, Blackpool and Man City.
9 points isn't unrealistic is it? Well not for us anyway!!
It's in our own hands, any reason not to believe?
Sandro's the one!
It's an unfortunate fact that Hudd's lack of pace and athletisismn will stop him from ever becoming the player we need him to be. Pretty much every other top team have their defensive midfieders pressurise oposition and win the ball early and high up the pitch, that's what allows them to pin teams in and attack relentlessly. Us having no-one to do this is one of the reasons Man U and Arsenal are controlling gamescomfortably and scoring far more goals than us despite our equal or better attacking options. As good a footballer as he is Hudd is no more capable of allowing us to do this than Jenas or Palacios are, the performances and results prove it. I don't mean this to slag him off but in terms of who can drag the team to the next level Sandro looks like a better fit. He covers ground, is aggressive and is a great tackler and is the much better bet to partner Modric in the long run imo.
It seems to me that when some players are out for any length of time, people tend to exaggerate how good they were before they got injured.
I reckon that Huddlestone was starting to play consistently well before he got injured, but as the comment above points out, off the ball, he doesn't have the athleticism to make it at the highest level as a DM (even if you could call him one) in the PL. And let's not forget it was Palacios', not Huddlestone's, tough tackling performances as a DM that got us out the shit and up the table soon after Redknapp brought him in.
Huddlestone would excel as a partner to a real DM (Sandro?) in a 4-2-3-1, but in a straight 4-4-2 with Huddlestone as the only defensive player outside the defence, he just doesn't have the energy or the bite. Yes, it worked very well in a handful of games last season with Modric and Huddlestone in the middle (most notably Chelsea and Arsenal at home and Man City away) but whether it can work over a full season remains to be seen. I like Huddlestone and it's great to have him in the squad.
I personally think 'Arry will go with Wilson over Sandro. I also think Defoe will score. I am also often wrong.
MaddySpurs,
It's about time he did score.
From a league point of view, when you consider the injuries and the fact that our 'strikers' have been the worst in the PL, it's truly amazing that we're a win away of going 3rd. Just imagine what this squad could do with a bit more luck on the injury front and one or two top quality additions.
Huddlestone & Modric win ration when playing games together is over 70%. Our next best was Jenas with Wilson at over 50%
Over 70% proves they are great together and it works.
He's not the finished article but he's up there now with the top performers in the prem and really makes us tick. Thats not to say we cant cope without him, change it up but his class is pretty obv.
TMWNN - Huddlestone was the main defensive midfielder last season, and we finished 4th. Yes Placios got us out of relegation danger, but Huddlestone got us into the CL. And that proves to you Palacios is better? Huddlestone doesn't have the athleticism to make it at the highest level? What, like for for a top 4 team? What, like he did for the whole of last season? Yes, Huddlestone 'only' played well against City, Chelsea and Arsenal. And Bolton. And pretty much every other game. What more do you want from him? He bossed the Inter game too. See what I mean, he could play brilliantly in every game and it still wouldn’t convince you. The fact you still think Palacios is a better midfielder says it all. The main crux of your point seems to be ‘Huddlestone doesn’t run around lots, so I refuse to accept he’s as good as someone who does’ .
I haven’t suddenly decided he’s good just because he is injured. I base my opinion on watching him many times last season. He was pretty much ever-present in the centre of the midfield. And when the time came to step up to that ‘next level’ as you say, in the huge, must win games at the end, it was Huddlestone who stood tall and dominated. Just because you couldn’t see it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. It did. And will continue to do, as I’m sure you will continue to not see it. It's not that we've exaggerated his skill in his abscence. The exact opposite is true - you've forgotten how good he is
Iwas missing Juande - so the reason Man Utd and Arsenal score more goals than us this season is Huddlestone's fault? Classic. The results prove that he is no better than JJ or Wilson? Sorry did you sleep through last season? I'm not sure if you are joking or not.
Anyway, we'll just have to agree to disagree. All I will say in conclusion is that Huddlestone's defensive work is subtle, and he does it with reading and positioning rather than flying around. Think of him as a midfield King, compared to Palacios' more Dawson-esqu blood and thunder.
It's not Hudd's defensive abilities that we miss (although they are often overlooked), it's his sublime range of long and short passing which we miss. His ability to sit deep and switch the play from flank to flank, to turn defence into attack with a perfect pass for Bale/Lennon to run onto, that we miss. Coupled with superb technique and strength on the ball, he rarely gets dispossed or gives away possession through poor passing. Something that could never be attributed to JJ, Wilson or Sandro.
Sandro looks the best purely DM option that we have, certainly compared to JJ or Wilson (who is liable to give the ball away needlessly as often as he is to win it back). However, for the Blackpool game, do we really need to Sandro AND WIlson in the middle? One should be enough; we should be looking to attack them and they will surely give our creative players freedom to excel.
Harry said in a newspaper article today that he might have to play Gallas at RB - who is gonna play with Dawson given that Ledley, Woodgate, Charlie , Tom and Kaboul are all injured?? 3-5-2 beckons.....
Chrisman,
Show me exactly where I have stated that Palacios is a better player than Huddlestone?
What I'm saying is that if you're playing a 4 man midfield containing Bale, Lennon and Modric I don't believe that Huddlestone gives enough strength defensively to balance the side in most games. Palacios played the same amount of games as Huddlestone last year and offered far more defensively over the season than Huddlestone did. I remember that one of the hottest topics before the run-in was Wilson's yellow cards and how we would struggle without him. Fortunately, Tom did step up.
'And when the time came to step up to that ‘next level’ as you say, in the huge, must win games at the end, it was Huddlestone who stood tall and dominated. Just because you couldn’t see it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.'
What the fuck are you talking about? I specifically mentioned those games, and how well he played, in my previous comment. You're basing Huddlestone's ability to be the defensive lynch pin of a potentialy title winning side in the future on a handful of games at the end of last season. I'm saying he's a good player, but until I've seen him consistently boss games as a DM, I'll hold back on the superlatives. If he does prove to be the main man, I'll happily hold my hands up and admit you were right.
I'm basing my opinion on the whole of last season. Every time he has been tested, he has come through with flying colors
"Palacios played the same amount of games as Huddlestone last year and offered far more defensively over the season than Huddlestone did" - there, you pretty much just said it. Your opinion seems to be that Palacios is more effective, and was better that Tom last season. Nothing worng with that, you are entitled to your opinion. However Its clear to me that Huddlestone is a better player, both attacking and covering the back 4.
"What I'm saying is that if you're playing a 4 man midfield containing Bale, Lennon and Modric I don't believe that Huddlestone gives enough strength defensively to balance the side in most games." - well he did it in the games that he did play, and those were against the top sides. Why do you think he wouldn't be able to do it against lesser sides? There is no logic to your argument. I don't 'believe' that Huddlestone can or cannot do it. I know he can because I've seen it with my own eyes. I base my opinion on the cold hard evidence on the pitch, not some preconceived idea of what players can and cannot do. I might have thought he couldn't do it, but he showed that clearly he can. It's a fact. He did it. Against the top sides. He gave enough strength defensively to balance the side in games against 3 of the top 5.
Of course, you can say 'Well he did it against Arsenal and Chelsea, but till I see him do it against West Ham and West Brom I won't believe he can' but that argument does not follow simple logic. As you said, your opinion is based on an abstract 'belief' rather than actual evidence.
Yes I'm basing my opinion of him on games I've seen him play. What else am I supposed to do eh? He played brilliantly alongside Palacios, for most of the season, then when it was him and Modric in CM, we were even better. Again, what more could he have possibly done? You may need more 'proof' that he is brilliant. I don't. I know you don't fluke the performances he gave. After Bale tore Inter apart, I bet you didn't say 'well he needs to do it more often before I say he's brilliant'. Because it was obvious that he is brilliant, even if he hasn't consistently done it year on year. Huddlestone's brilliance is just much less obvious.
Ha Ha, nice try Chrisman.
Huddlestone has much, much better vision and passing ability than Palacios. Okay, happy? Palacios is a much stronger and quicker as a defensive player than Huddlestone. You obviously disagree. That doesn't mean I think Palacios is good enough to be the sole defensive midfielder in a side full of attacking players (his passing isn't, or hasn't lately been, good enough).
Yes he proved he could do it, we all saw it, but he hasn't proved he can play that role over a season. Until he does, I'll have doubts.
Is it okay for me to doubt, Chrisman, or do I have to fall in line with your views?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that only Sandro's 4th start in a game for us at San Siro? Against the 7 time..repeat 7 time CL Champions? The way he sliced and diced every single attack of theirs was amazing for one so inexperienced. Given our injuries at present, to me he starts each and every time.
Nah you can doubt. Palacios is quicker, yes. Stronger, maybe (not sure if someone who is 5ft 11 and 12 stone can be stronger that someone who is 6ft 5 and 17 stone but there you go). But lets say for arguments sake that you are right. My point is quciker and stronger does not equal better defensively. Younes Kaboul is probably quicker and stronger than Dawson, Gallas and King, but he's not a better defender. Don't forget also, Hudd started his career and played nearly 100 games at Centre Back for Derby. In my opinion Hudd is a better passer and defender that Wilson. The only aspect of the game that Wilson is better at is running, and running on it's own isn't as valuable as positioning, reading the game, calmness, team responsibility etc. It's just one small facet of the game, and one Tom doesn't need to have in spades given his other talents.
You don't have to fall in line with my views, but be prepared to hear in tedious detail why you should.
On another note Bale and Sandro will need to be added to our squad of 25 list next season
Can we really justify having 3 defensive midfielders and 7 centre backs in our squad of 25? Time to say goodbye to King and Woodgate?
LTRFTW
TMWNN I think you are right in the sense that Wilson is more athletic than Tom, but it cannot be ignored that huddlestone's ability to complete accurate passes over 40+ yrds puts pressure on the other team, and allows us to push them further back and defend from the front. So while Wilson might be more noticeably all action, it's worth considering the different influence he exerts on a game and the effect on the opponent's strategy. What I mean is, with Tom in the side, I think it often results in us being under less pressure to defend inside our own half, therefore he is defensively effective in a different manner to Wilson, by virtue of the potential threat he offers
Just my 2 cents - I held back posting for a while but I think you seem like the most likeable bunch of the blogs/forums I've been lurking on so thought I'd get involved
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that only Sandro's 4th start in a game for us at San Siro? Against the 7 time..repeat 7 time CL Champions?
Ok. They've won the Champions Leauge/ European Cup 9 times. ;-)
Snouts, I'm not ignoring Tom's brilliant vision and passing ability (I actually think he'd be one of the best midfielders on the continent), but defensively I don't think he has the pace, nor the bite, to 'seek and destroy' (if you like) which is needed in the rough and tumble of the PL. In a 4-2-3-1 alongside a real DM, Huddlestone would have the time to really conduct games, but that would require a decent lone striker and leaving one of Bale, Modric, Lennon or VDV out (unless you use Bale from LB).
I agree in that one well struck pass can quickly relieve the pressure and turn defence into attack (Palacios' passing often puts more pressure on us), but to make that pass, you first need the ball.
I think we'd all agree that if we could combine Palacios' hustling ability with Tom's passing, we'd have one hell of a player.
Chrisman, I never find well argued disagreements tedious. The more detail the better.
I was missing Juande - so the reason Man Utd and Arsenal score more goals than us this season is Huddlestone's fault? Classic. The results prove that he is no better than JJ or Wilson? Sorry did you sleep through last season? I'm not sure if you are joking or not.
Of course Tom's better than JJ and Wilson. He deserves all the credit in the world for helping us get to the top four, but I think with the squad we now have we can start looking forward and thinking about our make up as title challengers rather than top four contenders.
Other than the striker issue, the thing that sticks out is that we can't gain a consistent stranglehold of midfield in the same way as Man U and Arsenal (and Chelsea over the last few years) can at their best. We've gone through significant periods of almost all our games this year ceding territory and stuggling to build attacking momentum because we don't win the ball back quickly, and it's the main reason we're more prone to dropping points than them. As ungrateful as it sounds this is how we've been with Huddlestone in as well as JJ or Palacios. Why else has Harry been trying to sign Scott Parker? I like Huddlestone and he's a good player, but ultimately he's not the solution to this shortcoming. He's the best we've got and I'll support him but I just think there's too much unrealistic expectation being placed on him.