Dear Mr Tottenham supporter, regarding Stratford...
Thursday, January 20, 2011 at 12:10PM Dear Mr Tottenham supporter,
Regarding Stratford.
It’s a reoccurring discussion point this, one that will soon go beyond protests and arguments once a decision has been made by those with the power to do so. The question being; Stratford? Potentially the new home of the world famous Spurs?
Fancy some of that? Personally, I’d like to reiterate once more; thanks but no thanks.
And yet many amongst us, in a blink of an eye, would be happy with this. It's in our catchment area, it's only a few miles up the road they say. And that we need to make the move otherwise it will cost us a couple of hundred million more, resulting in masses of debt if we proceed instead with the Northumberland Development Project. Haringey and Levy are playing a game of political mug-off, all with their own bluffs, double bluffs and agendas. They’re broke and want to use Spurs for the redevelopment of the area and Levy is using this excuse in addition to lack of public sector funding as a platform and easy way to push the Olympic Site as the only feasible alternative otherwise THFC's very future would be under threat. I call bullshit because if the OS is given to West Ham then what of a contingency plan? What do we do then? By definition, there has to be an alternative. Mainly because, Daniel Levy is no fool – and is hardly naive. So even though Wembley and Arsenal are tagged with receiving public sector money in every other complaint article you may have read, to base all hope on the NDP being manageable for the club on those extra funds...well, it seems very very flimsy and clumsy if to be believed.
It's not like Levy is going to shrug and give up on the vision if the OS goes to West Ham. He'll work towards a resolution. To appease us and to appease ENIC. And to fulfil the promise and the next stage. We have planning permission for N17, so if it’s vital for us to have a 50K+ ground - he will find a way. Unless all eggs have been placed in the Stratford basket from the very beginning. Either that, or he only recently gave up on N17. Which again, seems an improbable thing to do considering how difficult it is for anyone to get through the red tape of development to achieve their final goal.
It's just far far easier to opt for Stratford. No crippling debt we are told and then he can build a stadium and eventually sell the club for untold millions to someone like AEG (who have a habit of getting involved in this type of thing) and could soon be partners in crime if the bid is won. But what of the advantages of moving there I hear you ask? A stadium with a ready-made infrastructure of travel links, the rich in the City a short distance away and countless corporate t*ssers and day tripping tourists. Revenue, it's the new Promised Land. Levy is serious about it, you only have to look at the people he's appointed to talk up the OS bid and the statements they have made. Eggs firmly in that basket then – and if the bid fails, then onwards (back to) North London to make that work.
What some of our faithful are failing to see is that it's hypocritical to move onto someone else's patch. Imagine someone moving into North London. Oh hold up...wait...
It's also quite lazy to believe this is the only viable alternative (I’m going to keep on repeating this) and we'll stagnate if we don't move to Stratford. Moving would also make as a franchised club. Five miles or not. That might sound overly dramatic, but it's fact. If the project in N17is complicated and will take longer in terms of building it (having to knock down parts of WHL – playing with a reduced capacity etc), what is ‘longer’ when the end result is to retain our home and a ground in our area for another 130 years or so? We're not going anywhere, are we? Or perhaps, we are.
There has been no final ‘we are so so sorry’ statement to explain that staying in North London is not, unequivocally not, an option because of the debt we would inherit during the redevelopment. If, 100 per cent without a shadow of a doubt, if...remaining in N17 would cripple us for a decade or so, then perhaps we need to revisit and understand how viable redeveloping White Hart Lane itself would be. If we have to move to survive, it would change perspective. But it's hardly that is it? Is it? If it was, unquestionable, they’d hardly be any debate just more questions about other potential options. Are we staring into oblivion? Are we?
How hard is that gun pressed to the back of your head?
I appreciate Levy is a very shrewd chairman, a good business man and in recent years (finally) a good leader with regards to the actual football (appointing a back to basics manager and letting go of the D.o.F system). He runs the club brilliantly. It's what we expect. It's his responsibility. And even if you might not get the impression from this letter, he does ‘care’. But he’s still a business man who uses business to drive the club forwards. I do get that. But to ignore all of the footballing sentiments? Sometimes, those intangible elements – they speak far more loudly than pennies under the bed.
Levy has a responsibility. To us. And everyone else who has a (different type of) share in the club. ENIC are an investment company and their main priority above all will always concern the money they can make back from their investment. They have an end game. They will be long gone and our legacy will be stuck in East London - making us a club with a history detached back in North London.
Again, I get told countless times 'this is progress' and that I should ‘allow us to create new history’ and that if it's good enough for other clubs why should we bother attempting to define ourselves by citing North London derbies and rivalry and passing judgement on other clubs on what they have done or are doing to be the very best? We should be selfish I'm told and we should focus on making as much money as possible to be able to challenge top end season in and season out. Money, money, money. Its progress. Spare ribs and prawn sandwiches dished up at half time so we can afford the bills to sign and keep world class players.
I guess football has changed. But once more, it’s not do or die until I see it written in blood. That gun, it’s nowhere near the back of my head. Can you feel anything at the back of yours?
Apparently all this money will also guarantee success. May as well invite a billionaire to buy us out and invest £500M in players. If we are that desperate. Okay, being pedantic a little there. Money will aid with remaining competitive. But no guarantees. We’ve been high spenders for years and years. It’s not worked out that well for us until we sat with two points from eight games.
The football. The kicking and pushing of the ball. On the pitch. That has led us to fourth spot. That has allowed us to dream and want for more. It should always – always – be about the football and the desire to succeed. It’s hardly down to the money spent. Sure we spent some, within our current means. And the other superpowers around us, not all of them are in a position to compete with us in the transfer market. But let’s move on from this.
Tottenham the area is a toilet and we’re not the only club whose ground is sat in a toilet. It could become less of one if people started to play ball. That includes you Lammy. People supporting the move are not considering how much the Spurs match day landscape in terms of support and vibe will change. New chapter, I'm told, stuck in the past, I'm accused of. History is relative. It sure is. I hope you enjoy chatting about it in a pub or cafe in Newham which is draped with Claret and Blue colours or Orient colours.
Imagine us winning a Cup. Open bus parade. Through the streets of East London. Stratford, Leyton etc. I don't know about you, but that would be like waving your willy around in the front garden of your girlfriends ex-boyfriend. All a bit unnecessary and avoidable, when waving it around in your own bedroom is far more applicable to the occasion. Call me sentimental.
Sorry for thinking football was about moments, about games, about having a drink pre and post match and making a go of it on the pitch without sacrificing and boxing up your heritage and traditions and replacing emotions completely with harsh economics that instruct us to move now or perish. You know, we've got where we are today by bucking the trend.
I want what is best for the club. And competing at the highest level is what we can all agree on as an ambition although some of us are fine with us just being Tottenham. Regardless, let's try to remain anchored to the place that gives us our name. Try a bit harder. Much harder. Without going weak at the knees at something we are only bidding for because of the apparent commercial support we have backing us - allowing all involved to swim in the quick fix, no matter the consequences.
They say, N17 is but a post code. It doesn't mean anything, not really. The club, its history and traditions - these will remain forever with us and can't be pinned down geographically. Honesty and integrity and Innovation, free flowing football, flair players. Glory nights. This is Tottenham. The fans and the fans expectations of what the club should be. It's not a post code, I agree. But it’s what the post code stands for, what it should stand for. And it should not be replaced by one starting with the letter 'E' and representing a by product of commercialism first and a football club second.
It's consumed the Prem League. Let's not let it consume us completely.
I should not even be bothering to quantify all this. Home is where the Hart is. We are the one constant that will always remain ever present. We, the fans. And all the romantic notions should not be dismissed because they can't produce profit. And they should not have to be packaged up and sent to another part of London for the sake of said profit.
You might not agree, you might cite what I’ve already stated that history is pinned to you, on you – the Spurs fan. Where you go, Tottenham goes. Football (and fans) are fickle, rule changing to suit their preference. I refuse to change the rule.
North London is ours.
We should not even be considering Stratford and I can only hope this is part of some Machiavellian strategy by the chairman. Because the alternative is Tottenham Hotspur without the Tottenham. Perhaps in ten years we'll up and move from East London to the Midlands for easier accessibility for the rest of the country to the brand new home of Sportstainment.
In conclusion - We as fans and as a club have retained plenty of pride in old skool integrity. You know, traditional values pertaining to heritage and history. The type of things you can't slap a price on because, let's face it, its priceless stuff.
We've struggled, no doubt, in the past, but recent management on the pitch has gone some way to repairing the damage. It's a quick fix to accept the OS as the only way to consolidate. And God have mercy on all involved if the Sky Sports money making machine stops printing the notes. It's a risk either way. But it’s a soulless one to the East.
And if we go to the East, there will be no national Olympic Stadium. No running track or obvious legacy paid for by tax payers. Keys to be handed over to a football club for them to demolish a stadium built at a cost of £500M for a few weeks worth of athletics. East London will lose out on the regeneration project in and around Upton Park. West Ham won’t have a new home. What a shame their bid is so weak in impact, hey Karren? And let's not forget Orient. Or have we already? And then there's White Hart Lane, home of many Glory Glory nights which will probably be turned into a massive housing development, flats for the locals, concrete where once Dave Mackay and Danny Blanch flower stood with studs on ball. A car park where Bill Nicholson’s ashes rest.
It's our club. It was our club. It will hardly be our club. Say no to Stratford.
Regards to all. And...
Come on you Spurs.
Be sure to visit We are N17 for your anti-Stratford fix and latest news. You can also find them on Twitter and Facebook.
Previous Stratford/N17 articles:
N17: Home is where the heart is
A nail in the coffin of Stratford?
For some, it's a brutal interrogation...
If Stratford Hotspur happens...it ends there (guest blog tehTrunk)
And as an alternative form of petition against moving out of North London and into East London...click and follow: FC Hotspur of Tottenham.
Reader Comments (255)
I’m warming to the idea of moving to the Olympic site. I love WHL & have had great times there but it won’t be the same anyway if it’s rebuilt next door nor would any of our history will be retained. So what’s the difference? The area? Selfishly I don’t give a toss about Tottenham as an area, but if we move, there will probably be a condition that the current WHL site is developed for the benefit of the community. Our history is in our own memories – without the current WHL what’s there to remind of our history? Kebab shops?
The cost savings of the Olympic site are enormous and we would make ourselves a prime opportunity for some mega-rich arab to buy us, make Levy the money that he clearly wants, and pump even more money into us. The sky could be the limit. Think how good it would be to race ahead of Ar*e and Chelski. But then there are those Spurs fans who wouldn’t like that & would rather wallow in familiar failure.
Unfortunately I don’t think it will happen anyway as there appears to be too much opposition. I just hope there’s a already a deal done in the background with some arab & a few brown paper bags flying about.
Support re-build at Tottenham. Cost difference not the £200m often quoted as this extra cost is mainly investment in supermarket, hotel and apartments which should provide profits to help finance scheme - otherwise why do it ? Also Spurs own the land, as opposed to renting at Stratford and paying quite high annual charges. Would also mean Spurs playing on a pitch they don't own.
The council are parasites.
I do appreciate they have no money to invest, but fuck me, cut us (the club, Levy) some slack and help us HELP YOU to redevelop the area.
I know someone who works in the industry and understands the processes and the politics (and backhanders) and he's had dealings with local government.
In short, they're all arseholes.
I hold out some hope that if we were to be made the preferred bidders for the OS that harringey council might then find some money to help keep us in the borough, a possible masterstroke of brinkmanship that cannot be put past levy - but I guess we have to wait and see.
It's gonna have to be a shit-load of money that Haringey find if they are going to build a tube station at Northumberland Park and make NLD remotely feasible.
My final comment on this is based on this ridiculous notion that all fans from in and around the N17 area are the only ones that want to stay there.
The same argument I've seen is all fans who want Stratford live miles away and rarely go to games.
Both statements are stupid, untrue and make the person saying them sound retarded.
For the record I live 200 miles away, attend approx 15 games a season home and away, and don't want to leave Tottenham.
Here, Here, Well said sir. Its Tottenham Hotspur I am praying that WHU win with their pathetic bid. If they do I fear it could be the death of that famous old club, f**k 'em. Lets hope the IOC get their way and their huge and pointless athletics stadium and I wont care so long as we are still singing Glory Glory at the new or old White Hart Lane. COYS
Its heart warming to hear so many more people against the move. Its grown in momentum and especialy the video at WHL singing North London is ours.
If we can secure our future in Tottenham then these events can only bring us closer as fanatics of Tottenham.
Im coming up to 30 and should be thinking about other stuff right now such as running my business but this is all encompassing.
I'd love to hear the chant non-stop throughout the game. 30,000 spurs fans and maybe even the opposing fans might joing in.
On discussing the resent events with my goon mates, even they were against us moving. The NLD is the biggest derby in the Premiership. The games to be frank are mostly exceptional.
We have the chance to rejuvinate one of the poorest parts of London. Imagine how great that would be to see the area transformed over the years.
I love you Tottenham for all your faults and I love you Tottenham Hotspur Football Club.
North London is ours :)
Yid Army!!
convinced me! we should stay and keep Bill Nick company COYS!!!
Great article, Spooks.
Although I don't agree with 100% of what you say, at least you've gone far beyond this 'We are N17!' twaddle.
Either way here's hoping the outcome will be for the club's best and keep 95% of us happy.
Nayim - from what I know. No chance of another tube link.
I know, I know.
I would support We Are N17 if one person could give me a rational reason why I should. Sorry Spooky you have failed again.
My family comes from North London and have always supported Spurs and that is why I started. But like most supporters I have now moved away from the area and travel in by car, train and then on foot on match days. When I started supporting Spurs in the '60s, we were the best team in London and famous for playing attractive attacking football. We could also attract some of the top talent of the day to play for the club.
That is what Spurs means to me and that is what I want it to always mean. I don't want the club to go through another period where we can never beat Chelsea or Arsenal and start being compared with the likes of West Ham. The real heritage of the club is nothing to do with N17, it is the kit, the cockerel, the way we play, the type of club we are and the players that play for us. Obviously, I love the name Tottenham Hotspur and would prefer the club to stay in N17. But if staying there affects the other things about the club that I care more passionately about, then I am all for a move, providing that the club stays in London (moving out of London, in my opinion would change the whole ethos of the club and also affect player recruitment). For some of the We Are N17 supporters, unfortunately including you Spooky, priorities seem to be confused. Circumstances change and if people like you don't want to carry on supporting the mighty Spurs if they move to Stratford, then good riddance. I hope that you can find another club that will mean to you what Spurs means to me. I could never support anyone else.
Soz mate.
What if I send you some flowers? Lilys do?
Great article Spooky and genuinely brought a tear to my eye.
I grew up in North London so I could have been Ar5ena1 due to split family loyalties but what if I was born today and Spurs had moved to Stratford ??
As others have said supporting Spurs isn't just about winning things and I've had 40 years to get used to that feeling. Or are we just another bunch of glory hunters like the thousands that came out of the woodwork when Abramovich spent some money at Chelsea or the hordes from Surrey who travel up to Manchester ?
However we must remember one very important thing on the financial side - would Levy had spent so much money buying up land and designing / planning the WHL rebuild if he thought it was unaffordable ?? Of course not and our club would not be 'crippled' with debt if we rebuilt WHL.
It might take longer to pay off the loan (from increased revenue don't forget) but at least we would still be TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR FC. And that ultimately is what matters.
Say no to Stratford.
Outstanding, spooky.
A great read and a fantastic antidote to the persistent, heartless and mechanical mantra of the hegemony of money so favoured by those who argue Stratford's case.
"priorities seem to be confused"
Nope. The club has caused the confusion by ever so subtle side footing to the East, leaving a threat open to moving there whilst the politics continue about public sector funding, as this appears to be the only key to remaining in N17. Which I refuse to believe is so prominent. What with countless millions spent on the feasibility studies and surveys etc on the NDP.
Unless you can categorically tell me that the plan was always Stratford and Levy will sell off the land at WHL to help with the monies requires.
"What if I send you some flowers? Lilys do?"
That's actually quite funny.
Great article as always Spooky. Football is emotion and sentiment, you take that out of the decision and it's just a hobby. Unfortunately the decision will never be made based on emotion alone, if it was we wouldn't even be discussing moving to the OS, the option wouldn't even be on the table.
I wholeheartedly agree that "North London is ours" but the powers that be are thinking "London is ours"... it's not about postcodes north of the river, it's about the city, the greatest city in the greatest country in the world and they want to dominate it! Is that wrong? Perhaps not. Greedy? Possibly. Chasing the spondoolees? Yes definitely!
If you want emotion and heart here you go, to those of you who are happy with mediocrity, happy to have the odd trip to Wembley in the CocaCola Cup and midtable finishes with the odd trip into Europa and the odd relegation battle? Shame on you... we are THFC! Even through the many dark years at least we all strived for perfection, for glory, football purists demanding the beautiful game to be played as it should be!
But where did this ethos come from? It came from a generation of winners not prepared to just accept their lot, management Rowe/Anderson/Nicholson, immortalised Spurs legends that have graced the hallowed turf and fans, but all this heritage and glory came over 50 years ago and we've never even come close to emulating their greatness since... that's the real travesty of this great club, it's all about the history! Yes maybe the odd FA Cup and Uefa Cup here an there, but nothing in comparison to our 2 nearest neighbours! What about the here and now... we're on the verge of a potentially great new chapter in the club's future... which way will it go? Once thing's for sure we need a bigger stadium to compete, that's a fact!
If we can push forward with the NDP then that has to be THE priority, but if that's not an option I'm not blinkered or beligerent enough to close the door on the club I love, if we want to progress then we have no choice but to move to the OS, and we as fans should be united in what's best for the CLUB.
Yes, moving won't guarantee success, there are no guarantees in life, but we'll have a far greater chance of success if we have a 50k+ seater stadium and if the only way we can get it is by moving to Stratford then I'll pledge my support.
I'm still undecided, I can see both sides of the argument but am still sitting firmly on the fence... one thing's for sure I don't want to move from WHL but if by doing so means more decades of mediocrity then my decision will be an easy one.
For every Spurs supporter passionately pleading a case to stay in our home, to value our history and to cherish our traditions, I salute you. You are family. Passions sometimes run too high and cross the boundaries of decency, but in which 'proper' family does this not occur, especially when we are talking about something as important as our home and our future? There cannot be an outright winner in this dilemma only a lesser of two evils.
Personally, and after much soul-searching, I would go to the Olympic Park. In my reasoning, anticipation about the future and the logical arguments just, and only just, outweigh fear of change and emotional ties with home. Some of you will abuse me for this but I understand why and I will still stand shoulder to shoulder with you, give you a hug when we score a goal and do my best to out-sing the other lot. I will do this at White Hart Lane or at the Olympic Park.
I'm also glad that Levy is charged with the stewardship of our club during this epoch-making period. I think he has earned the right to be trusted through his actions over the last few years. To me, he has proved himself as someone who genuinely cares about the future of all the stakeholders in our club: fans (of which he is one) shareholders (yes including himself), players, sponsors and the community. Look at any of the great private enterprises who have survived centuries of economic, political and social changes whilst sustaining performance and they have one thing in common; they see the interests of their shareholders, employees, customers and other stakeholders as indistinguishable. You seek to make a profit at the expense of the other stakeholders and you may survive a while but you will not sustain. I think he knows this. Sure, ENIC may one day sell to another big enterprise (and given the way the club and football is growing it would need to be a huge enterprise) but this could happen whether we move or not. The arguments need to focus on whether a move is good or bad. Whatever you decide, you are right.
This is the problem for me Spooky: I don't want to leave Tottenham but neither do I think that the NLD is financially viable or that getting 60,000 to and from the area is either.
What I do know is that the Goons are taking £100m a year in gate receipts alone - doing nothing and staying at WHL in not an option.
I see Harry Hotspur (number one blogger) has weighed in on this article;
I guess that means we can say we’ve heard it all now. Or at least that’s the threat.
I think ‘emotive bullsh*t’ is harsh but I struggled to warm to the Anti Stratford mob from the word go.
There is a horrible seam of self interest intertwined with the romanticism. I’ve actualy reached the point where I want the move just to f*ck’em all off.
The problem the Anti Stratford mob have is that fundamentally nobody cares. I’ll rephrase, not many people care.
The poll on here has 75% of voters against. But how many didn’t vote?
This place ticks over what, 40k ish visitors a week. 750 votes in what a month or something of the poll being up? Err, that’s 159,250 who were left so inert by the idea they didn’t vote.
There was the missed trick. I should have provided a ‘don’t care much’ option.
The ‘demonstration’ was a fiasco. Two dozen kids and a now ruined bed sheet. A Twitter campaign generating more Spam than Hormel Foods.
Good night Gracie.
Nice one Woodway.
Do the anti-Stratford mob think that the A*se fans were thinking about Woolwich when they were jumping in ecstacy whilst winning League titles? Did they hell!
'Tottenham Hotspur' is not the area - it's the club. It's what happens in the stadium. Its the fans & players & managers....wherever they come from. The surrounding sh*theap area of kebab shops & grocers, crime and general gloom is not what we're about.
If WHL is redeveloped in Tottenham it will not the same WHL. There won't be any history there. As much as I love the current WHL, Stratford is the best solution for me and a lot of fans....and more than would like to admit it!
"There is a horrible seam of self interest intertwined with the romanticism. I’ve actualy reached the point where I want the move just to f*ck’em all off"
Charming.
What of the pro Stratford mob suddenly dismissing all this romanticism that most of us have happily bathed in for 30,40 years? It works both ways I'm afraid.
What will be interesting is to see how many of the pro move supporters suddenly change their tune post OS going to West Ham. Although it's quite disparaging the support we appear to have with people who will influence the decision making.
1. Create a crisis (Spurs can't compete in Tottenham - Tottenham will die)
2. Create an enemy (Lammy the bogeyman and the Haringey horrors)
3. Divide (Give only two choices - stagnation or pots of silver at the end of rainbows)
4. Confuse (Apart from leaked disinformation - keep quiet! The enemy might see our hand)
5. Conquer (It's a done deal now, no going back - Stratford is taken)
6. Profit (Maximise profit buy selling new club - which isn't anything to do with the old club)
100% against Stratford and the conniving c*nts that want to sell out on the fans for profit but who are wrapping it up in the name of progress.
I suspect that money will talk the loudest here, but you can stick Stratford right up your arse!
At least Spooky is admitting he would live with the move if the club came out and stated N17 was more dead. If we really did depend on the move to 'survive'.
By the way I think all this 'move or die' bullshit the pro-stratford peeps are using in their defence is equally emotive so let's try and keep the peace on this.
Net spend on transfers 2003-2011
Spurs £119,650,000
Liverpool £100,000,000
Manchester Utd £38,900,000
Ars*nal -£5,120,000
3 of these teams have spent money to maintain their loft top 4 status that sees them benefit from many things such as CL money and the ability to attract better players on better wages.
Spurs have had the double whammy of (a) having to spend dramatically to improve their squad from a mediocre club to be at the level of the established top guns, and (b) having to attract those players by paying a hell of a lot for them....Plus Spurs have gone through a succession of managers and have had to rebuild every 2 or 3 years!
TMWNN
That's just about on the money. If people are so gullible to think Stratford - do or die - then shame on you, shame on you all.
Protest wasn't too strong, petition is relative to current capacity, but there's hundreds and thousands of Spurs fans so it's not relative in the grand scheme of things because if you don't go to the game there's 30 other people who would want the ticket.
The club is indeed a business. Fucking shit isn't it?
Think we should move because I don't believe the club want to stay in North London and there is no way we can change their minds. Sorry for giving up so easily but Haringey and Levy between themselves have done far too much damage.
@Woodway
Being a Tottenham fan isn't about being rational. If we were rational we would have supported Man U or Liverpool (depending on your age) from the start.
90% of the argument to stay in Tottenham is emotionally driven. At the same time I believe a lot of ProStratford people are being very naive and taking PR rubbish at face value.
Have you actually asked yourself what are the negatives in moving to Stratford?
How significant could they be?
Will perhaps more fans than anticipated fall out of love with the game / stop going to watch them play?
Will we actually see a half filled stadium? Will it be like the Emirates, devoid of passion and atmosphere?
Will we be sold to the highest bidder and follow Man City in paying money grabbing footballers the earth to wear our shirt devoid of passion and sentiment (like VDV who was quoted declaring his love for the game now he is back at a Traditional Club) for us?
Will apposing fans call us sell outs, home wreckers, a team with no soul?
Will our move impact on one of the poorest places in London?
Will our move ruin the legacy of Athletics? Will we be wasting 500m in tax payers money tearing the stadium down? Is it ethicaly and moraly right for us to do this?
Will we be moving into other team territory? Will that incite more violent trouble between Tottenham & West Ham?
Will the special one become our manager and change the style of play?
Will you miss the atmosphere at WHL and the plaudits the media give us as the place to watch football?
Do the finances on the OP site really add up, or are they being underplayed?
What are the boards real motives behind the move?
Will Chaz and Dave still support Tottenham.
The list is endless, and I appreciate these questions can be flipped around but at least make sure you are questioning yourself and the board.
Also don't forget the local fans, the people that helped build Tottenham Hotspur.
COYS
re: the HH quote. 40k visitors a week? That must mean Triffic Tottenham gets 100k per week.
All that tells me is there are a lot of people out there that like to read crap. Hardly reason to use a poll on a blog as an argument to prove what peoples opinions are. Especially if some forums are sitting firmly in one camp.
Excellent piece of writing.
I don't agree but very well put.
Keep up the good work
One of the best "Say No To Stratford" pieces I have read since the madness started!
I don't really agree so much with the notion "stay as we are" is a viable option. I would fear in (many) years to come Tottenham Hotspur FC would cease to exist in any capacity except in memory or heart. Expecially when talk of "European Super League" and trimming down the PL to 16 teams are still items that have been forgotten but still very much on the table.
It is a damn shame football has become about the £/$. Was a nice thread on Twitter recently about when a ticket only cost a couple of quid not even 30 years ago and now we are talking upwards of £50! Ok, all seater contributed to that but still!
The tragic reality is survival in football is all about the revenue a club can generate. It is a shame it is this way but for those of us that wear our hearts on our sleeves when we talk about Spurs the money men want to replace our hearts with brand names.
I do also believe protesting outside WHL is ill fated, as proved on Sunday. Fact is 500 fans standing up to be counted among 30,000+ at the game doesn't exactly send shivers down Levy's spine. It only further endorsed the fact that many will follow to Stratford. It was a bad decision!
I said this to many "Yes to N17" folk that have been in touch over the weeks who have asked why I don't support, I feel the campiagn as a whole is disorganised and misdirected. It has done nothing to bolster public opinion that Spurs fans want to stay. In fact it has done the opposite. And calling upon Spammers to add names to a Spurs fan' petition only weakens the point further.
If "We Are N17" get behind a "Yes to NPD" drive and petition Haringey Council and the lazy innefectual David Lammy, who has disgustingly played upon the emotions of some very passionate fans for his own political ends, I will make it my mission to get across from Ireland to N17 to join that cause.
Protesting and petitioning OPLC and WHL is not the answer, forcing Haringey to do everything they can to make NPD happen is! (IMHO)
Speaks volumes the amount of fans willing to dismiss so readily our home in NL for one in East London.
Would some of the pro-Strat fans go out and talk to WH and Orient fans and then come back and we can then discuss further.
I've spoke to West Ham fans, they dont want the stadium. Leyton Orient fans? There an endangered species, there's only a couple of hundred left in the wild.
Boxed In, what is talking to WH & LO fans got to do with what is best for us?
I should mention them same West Ham fans are against us having the stadium also.
how much much would it cost to make stratford part of north london, that would settle it.
read in the evening standard if we get OS we will be sold to the state of Qatar.
it's sad that football has come to this, I am a traditionalist and the memories of going to the Lane with my dad is something i want to pass on and do with my son.
what's sad is that in order for us to compete with the man citys and red scum on the pitch the Stratford option is probably required.
so do we jump ship and join the souless elite, or de we stay put and enjoy the odd tipple. it's a tough decision, the article swayed me to stay, some of the comments makes me think we should move to Stratford.
I don't bloody know.
I know plenty of West Ham fans (okay, five) that want to leave the shit hole they currently watch their football in. Stratford is the only option they have to make some money. Easier for them, they're not in West Ham as it is ,are they? But they wont be moving outside of East London.
Let me first say I would naturally rather stay at WHL if it were viable for NPD but I don't think it is.
An excellent article and some good points, factual errors and the emotion card again but a well written piece anyway. Good to see questions asked and nice Yidmeister comments too.
Many of the N17 faction have been saying it costs the same to build the two stadiums. I would ask have you included the cost of lost income when we rent another ground for 2 years? Commercially it will cost us and these cost must be taken into account and the knock on effects.
There is talk of hypocracy but are these the same people who will go and watch Tottenham Hotspur (for that is what we will always be called, see the legal precedent already set) in another post code while we rent? Is that not hypocracy?
I have seen no mention of the Financial Fair Play rules that soon come into effect and how they affect our beloved club. Afterall this is the "real issue" we are actually fighting over. It is the French model being imposed by Platini to try and level the playing field "Financial fair play means clubs not getting into a spiral of debt to compete with their rivals but rather competing with their own means, ie the resources they generate."
So football will be all about being the biggest commercially and not having a billionaire owner. Currently Spurs are mid table in this capacity with less than half the income of Arsenal. Do we want to be a perennial mid table team? No. So we have to compete, hence Levy feeling Stratford is the way forward.
"how much much would it cost to make stratford part of north london, that would settle it"
haha, best quote from the thread.
Found more 'emotive shit' over at GG, from Totman:
Very very shocked by the amount of people who are disregarding location as something as trivial what make our kit is. Listen, the fact that "its only Stratford" is completely and utterly irrelevent.
Be aware, that if the club said it was moving to Milton Keynes, you would have no real grounds to oppose it on. All the things that work for Stratford, would indeed work in another city, so would you all be happy to move out of London, if it was "better" for the club.
As I said earlier, Tottenham isnt just a name.
I was born in Woolwich of all places, and raised between Thamesmead and Wood Green. My extended family are from Tottenham and Edmonton and I spent alot of time up there. But I never lived there. I live in Amsterdam now, but am fiercely against a move.
Its not ok to distance yourself from the location, just because you dont live there, and its not only the fans who do that are opposing the move.
I have millions of memories, family and club related from that area. Millions, and the people who just disregard it as a "shit hole", well thats up to you, but I would like to see the club AND the area improve, instead of creating another ghost town in London.
Its our chance to set a precedent in the modern game, which says that some things are more important than money FFS. Our future as a club is NOT at stake by staying. We have proved that already, with our plans. Have you all forgotten what you were reading as little as 4 months ago?
Go back and read the excitement in the Stadium Thread, BEFORE the OS part was added.
A I pointed out earlier, there are alot of people who are sounding more and more like they will be utterly disgusted if we stay, judging by their damning opinions of the area and its importance.
I find that absolutely shocking. Seriously, Im stunned by it.
spooky, I don't beleive that pro-Stratford fans would be disgusted that we stay, it's just a preference to move for all the reasons given. You should get yourself down to one of Amsterdam 'coffee' shops & chill out a bit!
Stratford is north of the Thames, last time I looked. Vis a vis, it is in North London. Albeit North East East, rather than North North East........
Whoever tryed to spin the protest earlier in the thread saying it was detrimental is wasting their energy.
This is just the start. It will grow and grow as you could see inside WHL how loud the North London is Ours chant is.
People have woken up. Most fans dont want to move. its just PR people trying to push a move through. All your achieving is inciting more anti-stratford people.
Whatever way you word it we wont be swayed or believe your breakdown of costs. Levy wouldnt have gone ahead with the feesibility studies and designs if it wasnt viable. The costs will end up the same. Its just down to making us a franchise to sell to the highest bidder. Period.
Just say no. I find it soooo hard to say no because I am a very bad girl. I was trying to persuade my sister to run onto the pich with me at our next home game, naked but with a big banner supporting us staying put. Whaddya think boys?
How will the costs end up the same, yidal?
Is your sister fit and of legal age?
HH, think you should go for it!!!!
@Mattspur.
Some true Tottenham fans are fighting for their club as they value it.
I don't think people for the move should be called pro-stratford. It should be Anti-Tottenham fans.
@Nayim
When they eventualy factor the costs of:
The demolition job, the shopping malls, supermarkets & hotels.
To date they are comparing the NDP (and its entire costs including stadium, shopping malls, hotels etc etc) to the OP's sole stadium cost.
Jesus some people really do take eveything at face value. Way to easily led.