Dear Mr Tottenham supporter, regarding Stratford...
Thursday, January 20, 2011 at 12:10PM Dear Mr Tottenham supporter,
Regarding Stratford.
It’s a reoccurring discussion point this, one that will soon go beyond protests and arguments once a decision has been made by those with the power to do so. The question being; Stratford? Potentially the new home of the world famous Spurs?
Fancy some of that? Personally, I’d like to reiterate once more; thanks but no thanks.
And yet many amongst us, in a blink of an eye, would be happy with this. It's in our catchment area, it's only a few miles up the road they say. And that we need to make the move otherwise it will cost us a couple of hundred million more, resulting in masses of debt if we proceed instead with the Northumberland Development Project. Haringey and Levy are playing a game of political mug-off, all with their own bluffs, double bluffs and agendas. They’re broke and want to use Spurs for the redevelopment of the area and Levy is using this excuse in addition to lack of public sector funding as a platform and easy way to push the Olympic Site as the only feasible alternative otherwise THFC's very future would be under threat. I call bullshit because if the OS is given to West Ham then what of a contingency plan? What do we do then? By definition, there has to be an alternative. Mainly because, Daniel Levy is no fool – and is hardly naive. So even though Wembley and Arsenal are tagged with receiving public sector money in every other complaint article you may have read, to base all hope on the NDP being manageable for the club on those extra funds...well, it seems very very flimsy and clumsy if to be believed.
It's not like Levy is going to shrug and give up on the vision if the OS goes to West Ham. He'll work towards a resolution. To appease us and to appease ENIC. And to fulfil the promise and the next stage. We have planning permission for N17, so if it’s vital for us to have a 50K+ ground - he will find a way. Unless all eggs have been placed in the Stratford basket from the very beginning. Either that, or he only recently gave up on N17. Which again, seems an improbable thing to do considering how difficult it is for anyone to get through the red tape of development to achieve their final goal.
It's just far far easier to opt for Stratford. No crippling debt we are told and then he can build a stadium and eventually sell the club for untold millions to someone like AEG (who have a habit of getting involved in this type of thing) and could soon be partners in crime if the bid is won. But what of the advantages of moving there I hear you ask? A stadium with a ready-made infrastructure of travel links, the rich in the City a short distance away and countless corporate t*ssers and day tripping tourists. Revenue, it's the new Promised Land. Levy is serious about it, you only have to look at the people he's appointed to talk up the OS bid and the statements they have made. Eggs firmly in that basket then – and if the bid fails, then onwards (back to) North London to make that work.
What some of our faithful are failing to see is that it's hypocritical to move onto someone else's patch. Imagine someone moving into North London. Oh hold up...wait...
It's also quite lazy to believe this is the only viable alternative (I’m going to keep on repeating this) and we'll stagnate if we don't move to Stratford. Moving would also make as a franchised club. Five miles or not. That might sound overly dramatic, but it's fact. If the project in N17is complicated and will take longer in terms of building it (having to knock down parts of WHL – playing with a reduced capacity etc), what is ‘longer’ when the end result is to retain our home and a ground in our area for another 130 years or so? We're not going anywhere, are we? Or perhaps, we are.
There has been no final ‘we are so so sorry’ statement to explain that staying in North London is not, unequivocally not, an option because of the debt we would inherit during the redevelopment. If, 100 per cent without a shadow of a doubt, if...remaining in N17 would cripple us for a decade or so, then perhaps we need to revisit and understand how viable redeveloping White Hart Lane itself would be. If we have to move to survive, it would change perspective. But it's hardly that is it? Is it? If it was, unquestionable, they’d hardly be any debate just more questions about other potential options. Are we staring into oblivion? Are we?
How hard is that gun pressed to the back of your head?
I appreciate Levy is a very shrewd chairman, a good business man and in recent years (finally) a good leader with regards to the actual football (appointing a back to basics manager and letting go of the D.o.F system). He runs the club brilliantly. It's what we expect. It's his responsibility. And even if you might not get the impression from this letter, he does ‘care’. But he’s still a business man who uses business to drive the club forwards. I do get that. But to ignore all of the footballing sentiments? Sometimes, those intangible elements – they speak far more loudly than pennies under the bed.
Levy has a responsibility. To us. And everyone else who has a (different type of) share in the club. ENIC are an investment company and their main priority above all will always concern the money they can make back from their investment. They have an end game. They will be long gone and our legacy will be stuck in East London - making us a club with a history detached back in North London.
Again, I get told countless times 'this is progress' and that I should ‘allow us to create new history’ and that if it's good enough for other clubs why should we bother attempting to define ourselves by citing North London derbies and rivalry and passing judgement on other clubs on what they have done or are doing to be the very best? We should be selfish I'm told and we should focus on making as much money as possible to be able to challenge top end season in and season out. Money, money, money. Its progress. Spare ribs and prawn sandwiches dished up at half time so we can afford the bills to sign and keep world class players.
I guess football has changed. But once more, it’s not do or die until I see it written in blood. That gun, it’s nowhere near the back of my head. Can you feel anything at the back of yours?
Apparently all this money will also guarantee success. May as well invite a billionaire to buy us out and invest £500M in players. If we are that desperate. Okay, being pedantic a little there. Money will aid with remaining competitive. But no guarantees. We’ve been high spenders for years and years. It’s not worked out that well for us until we sat with two points from eight games.
The football. The kicking and pushing of the ball. On the pitch. That has led us to fourth spot. That has allowed us to dream and want for more. It should always – always – be about the football and the desire to succeed. It’s hardly down to the money spent. Sure we spent some, within our current means. And the other superpowers around us, not all of them are in a position to compete with us in the transfer market. But let’s move on from this.
Tottenham the area is a toilet and we’re not the only club whose ground is sat in a toilet. It could become less of one if people started to play ball. That includes you Lammy. People supporting the move are not considering how much the Spurs match day landscape in terms of support and vibe will change. New chapter, I'm told, stuck in the past, I'm accused of. History is relative. It sure is. I hope you enjoy chatting about it in a pub or cafe in Newham which is draped with Claret and Blue colours or Orient colours.
Imagine us winning a Cup. Open bus parade. Through the streets of East London. Stratford, Leyton etc. I don't know about you, but that would be like waving your willy around in the front garden of your girlfriends ex-boyfriend. All a bit unnecessary and avoidable, when waving it around in your own bedroom is far more applicable to the occasion. Call me sentimental.
Sorry for thinking football was about moments, about games, about having a drink pre and post match and making a go of it on the pitch without sacrificing and boxing up your heritage and traditions and replacing emotions completely with harsh economics that instruct us to move now or perish. You know, we've got where we are today by bucking the trend.
I want what is best for the club. And competing at the highest level is what we can all agree on as an ambition although some of us are fine with us just being Tottenham. Regardless, let's try to remain anchored to the place that gives us our name. Try a bit harder. Much harder. Without going weak at the knees at something we are only bidding for because of the apparent commercial support we have backing us - allowing all involved to swim in the quick fix, no matter the consequences.
They say, N17 is but a post code. It doesn't mean anything, not really. The club, its history and traditions - these will remain forever with us and can't be pinned down geographically. Honesty and integrity and Innovation, free flowing football, flair players. Glory nights. This is Tottenham. The fans and the fans expectations of what the club should be. It's not a post code, I agree. But it’s what the post code stands for, what it should stand for. And it should not be replaced by one starting with the letter 'E' and representing a by product of commercialism first and a football club second.
It's consumed the Prem League. Let's not let it consume us completely.
I should not even be bothering to quantify all this. Home is where the Hart is. We are the one constant that will always remain ever present. We, the fans. And all the romantic notions should not be dismissed because they can't produce profit. And they should not have to be packaged up and sent to another part of London for the sake of said profit.
You might not agree, you might cite what I’ve already stated that history is pinned to you, on you – the Spurs fan. Where you go, Tottenham goes. Football (and fans) are fickle, rule changing to suit their preference. I refuse to change the rule.
North London is ours.
We should not even be considering Stratford and I can only hope this is part of some Machiavellian strategy by the chairman. Because the alternative is Tottenham Hotspur without the Tottenham. Perhaps in ten years we'll up and move from East London to the Midlands for easier accessibility for the rest of the country to the brand new home of Sportstainment.
In conclusion - We as fans and as a club have retained plenty of pride in old skool integrity. You know, traditional values pertaining to heritage and history. The type of things you can't slap a price on because, let's face it, its priceless stuff.
We've struggled, no doubt, in the past, but recent management on the pitch has gone some way to repairing the damage. It's a quick fix to accept the OS as the only way to consolidate. And God have mercy on all involved if the Sky Sports money making machine stops printing the notes. It's a risk either way. But it’s a soulless one to the East.
And if we go to the East, there will be no national Olympic Stadium. No running track or obvious legacy paid for by tax payers. Keys to be handed over to a football club for them to demolish a stadium built at a cost of £500M for a few weeks worth of athletics. East London will lose out on the regeneration project in and around Upton Park. West Ham won’t have a new home. What a shame their bid is so weak in impact, hey Karren? And let's not forget Orient. Or have we already? And then there's White Hart Lane, home of many Glory Glory nights which will probably be turned into a massive housing development, flats for the locals, concrete where once Dave Mackay and Danny Blanch flower stood with studs on ball. A car park where Bill Nicholson’s ashes rest.
It's our club. It was our club. It will hardly be our club. Say no to Stratford.
Regards to all. And...
Come on you Spurs.
Be sure to visit We are N17 for your anti-Stratford fix and latest news. You can also find them on Twitter and Facebook.
Previous Stratford/N17 articles:
N17: Home is where the heart is
A nail in the coffin of Stratford?
For some, it's a brutal interrogation...
If Stratford Hotspur happens...it ends there (guest blog tehTrunk)
And as an alternative form of petition against moving out of North London and into East London...click and follow: FC Hotspur of Tottenham.
Reader Comments (255)
Tried to make me go to Stratford,
I said NO, NO. NO
Nayim, thats one of the reasons west ham could win it, to cover up a major design fuck up by the morons in charge of these sort of things
You are already my favourite writer on all things Spurs... now you have done the unthinkable... you have completely changed the mind of the most stubborn person the world has ever seen!!!! I am always right, even when i'm wrong!!!! However, as a 'supporter' of the move (I say supporter in the sense of, if it happened it happened, Spurs will alwas be Spurs, it would be a shame, but I'd be happy with how world class the stadium will look in the purpose built area)... Now I hate the idea and want to protest against it... I hope to god my family and friends never discover how you did this to me, i've quite enjoyed the run of being corect all the time... i would like to see this mind changingpower you have inflicted keptm to this single moment!! you must be Derren Brown!!
May i just point out to the people that believe that Stratford = Money = Higher Transfer Budget = Success
Net spend on transfers 2003-2011
Spurs £119,650,000
Liverpool £100,000,000
Manchester Utd £38,900,000
Ars*nal -£5,120,000
"rebuild whl a stand at time" that is the worst idea I've heard here yet
It always amazes me how much people give a fuck about what Arsenal say/do/think.
I don't give a fuck about them. But you want some home truths? Stadium size/league position/recent success (Carling cup aside) we're not even the biggest club in NORTH London, a move to Stratford would see us rapidly become the biggest club in the ENITIRITY of London!
This sentiment is likely to upset a few of you though - so for your benefit, no, I'm not a gooner.
Great read. Refreshing to read the balanced opinion of an N17er instead of the one dimensional 'north London is our's' as they stamp their foot and cross their arms, argument. Its seems the beeb is supporting the West Ham bid with the last couple of vids they have put out. Tbh I think the OS maybe slipping away from us anyway.
I am so torn over this issue I'm almost in the frame of mind to just live and let live. I think the anti-stratford arguments resonate a lot more with me but I then question whether I'm just being stubborn. I must say though that I sit right by the Sky box at WHL and when that girl put up the protest sign and the crowd all turned to sing and support her I got this strange welling up in my throat and joined in. Anti or Pro-stratford, you can't help but be touched by that level of communal spirit. Football is just mad sometimes
Frazzler you gooner
Frazzler, I must agree Ars*nal are better at finishing 3rd in the league than us.
Dan Mac has got me to thinking...
On a side note, if I knew it was that easy to get up there with a banner I'd have made a "Merson's a c*nt" one years ago!
Mersons a bit of a closet yiddo nowadays
Have you posted anthing about how often and where piennar is going to play yet, Spooky?
Things change. Zimbabwe used to be Rhodesia; Sri Lanka used to be Ceylon; Iceland used to be Bejam. You get the drift...
The team will still play in white shirts; the cockerel will still be the badge of pride; who will genuinely not go and watch because Stratford is the new WHL ?
And what about what's best for THE CLUB ? Debt-ridden for years ? or still with a couple of bob to buy a new striker every transfer window ?
And what's best ? The new stadium relocated ? Or Wet Spam playing in front of 300 separated by a running track ? Actually, ignore that argument. Or don't. At the old Stamford Bridge, there was a dog track round the pitch; ditto the old Wembley. Both shite places to watch football. Esp behind the goals.
And finally, don't be blackmailed by feeble arguments that "Oh they won't be able to call themselves Tottenham Hotspur anymore if they move". Yeah right. The club's registered name is ? Oh yes, THFC. Can they be 'legally' forced to change ? Er...no.
Stratford it is then.
Levy is keeping cards close to his chest, unlike Mr Verbal-Diarrhoea MP who tweets the contents of meetings with Levy before his chauffeur driven limo, that whisks down the dodgy streets of Tottenham and away from his God-forsaken constituency, has even pulled out of the car park.
We are fools to second guess what Levy's plans are, but consider this.
Levy wants the NDP to happen otherwise he would not have spent millions & millions gaining planning consent....a very expensive exercise simply to prove to the Council that we cannot afford it alone!
The NDP was decided upon after an extensive appraisal of alternatives. I remember seeing the document. Very few alternatives were in the Borough, which we are close to the boundary of (Picketts Lock for example is another Enfield but was considered, and would probably be accepted by lots of Spurs fans despite being out of tottenham/haringey)
We need (and bloody well deserve) support from the Council / Government to bring the NDP forward, a project that will have massive regeneration positives for the area. Why should we pay for everything when the Council do F*** All except take out £1.3m in business rates every year....Arsenal got support, so did Man City.
Redeveloping WHL does not work. to add 50% more seats (54k) means another tier. To add a tier to the current stadium, or to any stand, would mean total rebuild of each stand...therefore total rebuild. the plot is constrained by roads on three site. The NDP is a total rebuild and a slight shifting of the position to enable an acceptable siting and for WHL to be occupied during the build. Redeveloping the original WHL is imply is not an option!
Overall, for Levy to achieve the ultimate goal of the NDP, we need financial help......We have said to the Council/Lammy, help us, this is too expensive, and made more expensive by planning contributions.
They have responded by saying, sorry, no can do. You’ll have to stay put.....Lammy has said he'd rather we did nothing than move.
The only way we can force the Council/Govt to help is by saying "help us otherwise we're off"...and the only way we can do that with any strength behind our threat is by bidding and winning the Olympic Stadium....if successful the Council have a choice...back us or lose us.
If they fail to back us then THEY are responsible for the outcome, not THFC which MUST move forward as a club and be able to grown in a sustainable and viable way.
People are jumping the gun if they think that THFC winning the OS bid 100% means we are moving...it can still be part of a master plan to force the Council's hand, and a back up if we fail to get the necessary help.
People should be protesting to the Council not to Levy!
"They say, N17 is but a post code. It doesn't mean anything, not really. The club, its history and traditions - these will remain forever with us and can't be pinned down geographically. Honesty and integrity and Innovation, free flowing football, flair players. Glory nights. This is Tottenham. The fans and the fans expectations of what the club should be. It's not a post code, I agree. But it’s what the post code stands for, what it should stand for. And it should not be replaced by one starting with the letter 'E' and representing a by product of commercialism first and a football club second. "
Spooky, get into the 21st Century fella! Football == commercialism. It's a fact of life now that isn't about to change. We dragged our feet when Div 1 became the Prem and it set us back 20 years. Let's wake up and smell the coffee this time!
if west ham get the OS then they loose their historic ground
they retain the track and loose the atmosphere
can only see them struggle to win and to fill seats
plus its only a lease of 200 years!?
a sad day if Tottenham Hotspur FC once again becomes Hotspurs FC not owning but leasing space
if we can re develop financially then we should...........!
COYS
Anyone care to remember the pride felt in those artist impressions of the N17 stadium? If someone had mentioned Stratford to you at the time, you'd have scoffed.
Frazzler, I'm there mate, I'm there. But like I said - the club has to tell me there is no possible way of retaining life in N17 before I close the book on it.
By the way. Football, it's emotive. At least it is for me. Just for the people who want me to drain all the sentimental 'shit' out of my system. It aint gonna happen.
If I were an Ars*n*l supporter I would be laughing myself silly at the embarassing prospect of Spurs moving to East London and leaving the whole of North London entirely to them.
/\ /\
This no longer matters to people in support of the move.
I think there are too many people in high and powerful places that are speaking in favour of Spurs.
I expect us to win the OS.
Net spend on transfers 2003-2011
Spurs £119,650,000
Liverpool £100,000,000
Manchester Utd £38,900,000
Ars*nal -£5,120,000
yes but in order to attract a player to a club that isn't competing in CL or winning the league you have to outbid your rivals who are. Plus those three all pay much higher wages than us so can attract and keep the best players. (even though they are in millions of debt! don't get me started) I know we've spent lots of money on some not great players but a lot of the best ones have f*cked off to the more successful clubs just as we were getting good. So we have to go invest again.
I'm sure United and Chelsea looked at Modric but weren't prepared to gamble on the £16mill that we offered. In that instance, it paid off for us. In the case of Bentley and Darren Bent, it didn't.
Take the sale of Ronaldo out of Utd's net spend figures and they are a lot closer.
Frazzler your a gooner and you stink of shit dude.
Lammy is such a cock its almost untrue, he's a twat with plums in his mouth who needs a good slap.
If it helps make us bigger and better I dont give flying whatever to where it is.
Naturally I would prefer to stay in Tottenham but not if we have to pay out the extortionate
200mill that haringey and the rest of the labour parasites have forced upon us.
Emotionalism is all well and good but I would rather see us a force in the league
and in the CL EVEN if it means moving. Some of you fail to realise that that 200mill could
see us stranded in midtable or worse for a decade or more but WTF!! We are still in
N17 even if the Europa league is but a dream. Thank God none of you run a business.
I dont hear Arsenal fans moaning about dear old Woolwich and the last Arsenal in North
London was in Crimean times.
Flak away I couldn't care less as the club is what counts not where it sits.
just ask any scum supporter.
And what Fox Mulder said.
I think thats the spirit these types of articles try to capture. Hard to put into words.
I'd like to see anti Stratford demos outside Lammy's house / town hall, not outside/inside the WHL. Levy is not the antiYid Lammy is!
Thankfully, reading between the lines this isn't going to happen anyway. for some bizarre reason, some influential individuals are pretty hacked off at our intention of bulldozing their brand new state of the art Olympic stadium - nowt stranger than folk, as they say!
Have you posted anthing about how often and where piennar is going to play yet, Spooky?
Jan 20, 2011 at 1:19 PM | Spanish Spur
Yeah. Tonight, probably.
Why is there this notion that ‘real’ spurs fans understand the history and emotional ties of WHL, and that anyone who is in favour of the move (or at least open minded to the idea) is some form of devil child from the new age of plastic football fans?
Yes, we all love the Blanchflower days, Ozzie and Ricky tearing it up, Hoddle, Mabbutt, Lineker, Ginola, Klinnsman etc. That is what we know and love about our club. Its what we’ve done in the past that truly makes us a club shrouded in history. But what does that have to do with this debate?
If we stay at WHL, or move to the moon.. those memories will stay that way. Memories. We can still look back on them with great fondness, we can still talk about them with warmth as the good old days. But what would be ridiculous, is if we let those great moments of the PAST, stop us from moving forward and accepting the 21st century!
36k for a club aiming to compete for the league and compete in the CL every year these days is quite frankly a joke, we have to move. If we move 100m away or 7miles away, WHL is still demolished into flats, the pitch is different, the memories will still be evoked from a ghost of the past that no longer exists. So why be held to ransom? Both the title and CL are realistic ambitions now, who would have thought that before Levy took over, I know he has had a moment here and there, but ultimately look at the job he has done. Remember George Graham and league cup finals. Now we are in the last 16 of the CL against AC Milan and very in an equally matched battle for the top seat of English football.
Yes I love WHL, I adore nights there under the lights, especially the tasty ones, Europe, Arsenal, Chelsea etc. But these ‘WE ARE N17 AND PROUD’ types need to wake up and smell the 21st century. Whether you want to admit it or not, money makes the world go round, especially professional football. Arsenal generate twice the revenue from gate receipts then we do, bar the atmosphere (which was always tosh) have you heard many complaints about the ground itself? I've been there myself for a community event and its bloody fantastic. If we are the preferred bidder, spurs fans can have an input to move the park lane and shelf to a designated part of the ground, keep the core and add to it with other die hards who cant get a season ticket in there. If anything this could increase our voice, our noise, our intensity, but some only want to see the negatives.
Haringey council are making it impossible for us to redevelop in N17. The extra money we would have to spend to stay right now compare to the OS is crazy. Until that gets brought down to reasonable levels, its a worse idea then Stratford because the level of debt put on the club could cripple us. Stratford would be a purpose built stadium, with amazing transport links, a new breed of fans (not a bad thing necessarily), we need to diversify the fan base to increase the global appeal and marketability of the club if we want to grow.
All this bull about enjoying a beer with friends before the game, pubs not having our colours and such is ridiculous. I'm pretty sure they have pubs that side of town and if you don’t think the prospect of 60k Spurs fans every week will not breed a crap load of spurs loyal pubs then you are mad. Yes its not a pub thats been spurs for years, but we’ll make new ones, together.
I could drone on, and this probably makes no sense to anyone. But I'm just fed up with the blind loyal N17 brigade who think they are protecting their club, when in fact they are killing it.
COYS
I dont favour the move one little bit but I think gooners would be gutted we got our ground for so cheap, they wouldnt be laughing
"May i just point out to the people that believe that Stratford = Money = Higher Transfer Budget = Success
Net spend on transfers 2003-2011
Spurs £119,650,000
Liverpool £100,000,000
Manchester Utd £38,900,000
Ars*nal -£5,120,000"
What a crap point, liverpool have won the champions league in that time frame, man u figure is massively distorted by ronaldo the fact is there team is full of players which set them back £25 million plus, I see you leave chelsea and man city off the list. equally if you ignore arsenal and everton, the teams with the lowest net spends are generally in the bottom half of the league trying to avoid getting relegated to the championship, if anything it shows how much we have underperformed during that period.
Fox, i agree that we need to pay more as we can't guarantee Champions League football etc, but people's argument for Stratford is that it will free up extra funds to buy players....
I think that those figures demonstrate that even with a boat-load of cash, you can't guarantee success, it also shows that we have enough at the moment to attract quality players.
You can buy all the players you want, but only 11 can play at any one time..... Unless you're Man U, then you can stick Howard Webb in behind the strikers.
Well written Spooky this could frightened Levey and make him think twice, just to add to your point on the bus parade our History is associated with Yids due to our owners and i think because of the area . The same could be said of Stratford it has the biggest Muslim population in the London Burroughs this is not a racist rant but another security issue regarding fans safety and the waving of the Israeli flag . This could be frowned upon just like our shirts in the wrong part of Stratford and it could become a terrorist target from extremists its a no brainier for me. We should move Spurs to Widnes where i live we will have two bridges soon both tolled you don't live long because of all the old chemical dumps so you enjoy what time you have left because of all the deaths we could bring all the fans from the lane to live here and have a new accent scouse widnes london widcocknyscousers a posher bin dipper i could get to Widnes hot lane cheaply. That would be just like Levey and co is doing for selfish reasons and the best solution from my impartial mind is stay where we are wrapped in our historical past and loved by all its good and bad parts and give the area a beautiful makeover for all the residents who have suffered traffic jams and away fans abuse since the lane was built . The spirit of Beckham's Granddad and all our past greats are sprinkled in Tottenham . Join the Spirit of departed players and fans and join The Stay put group S.D.P F. COYS
SI - I'm not blind, although not sure if you're directing that at me or the ones who will chain themselves to WHL.
The emotive side is important to me because it's what defines me as a fan. I simply don't want to allow the politics to consume the decision in favour of leaving N17 when there is still fight to be had in that particular corner.
I've said - again, many times - if there is no other option - unquestionable no other option - then so be it. I'll have to suck it up and suck it up hard. Not like it, learn to live with it, never love it.
But it's all limp. Deflected away from the issues of public sector funding and onto the pot at the end of the rainbow in East London.
It's this immediate gotta do it attitude that doesn't stick too well. All this 'wont happen again' opportunity talk.
You can be critical of people in favour of staying, as equally they can be dismissive of people who would move the club to south london if that was the only viable and available option. Because if the OS 'was' in South London - where would everyone stand on the move then?
Or do we pluck up the courage to move just because it's 5 miles down the road, and what's 5 miles between friends?
SPOOKYS SECRETARY,
Lay off the crack
Ed, That's what I'm saying, we have underachieved in relation to our spending. My point was that we have had equal money to spend as anyone else, it isnt a cash issue that has caused us to not be as successful as these teams, its the fact we've bought a lot of crap.
The fact Liverpool won the Champions League in that time is exactly what I'm talking about, these clubs have spent less and achieved more.
People's instant pro-Stratford argument is "We'll have more money" having more money doesnt mean it's going to be invested effectively.
I care about the club, not 'North London' let the gooners have North London.
In case you've been asleep for the last 20 plus years they've been bigger and better than us and when they've finished paying for their stadium they'll have enough money to just carry on again for the next 20-30 years. Winding them up for being gypsies has always had a hollow ring about it, especially when around 80+% of Spurs PAYING fans live hours away.
'North London is ours' is just another piece of emotive nonsense and we need to look beyond the immeadiate noise. I really do wonder how many of those that keeping chucking this in our face are actually paying fans and not just local stooges jumping on the bandwagon. By the lack of support we've seen for the so called mass protests perhaps the answer is obvious?
I'm favour of the move because I want us to be the very best, but honestly, you've pulled at my heart with this article.
It's a rotten predicament.
I think what Spurstop is saying is that football on the terraces is hardly what it was 10/20 years ago so let's stick two fingers up at the tribal stuff and get stuck into our Muller Rices.
Fox
Bent - strange one that. The came along with his stupid grin and scored goals...... but that wasn't enough! We wanted him to score Great goals...30yrd screamers, not 1yrd miss-kicks Now look at Crouch & co?
Plus I'm sure we've now recouped all monies outstanding for bent, so I think personally Bent did work out.
Why oh why did we allow Liverpool to return Keane, was it somthing to do with statutory rights or had they just kept hold of their receipt?
Great piece, Spooky. I thought you'd lost your touch with the X-Factor posts, but this is great.
For me, something just doesn't sit right about the NLD being deemed next to impossible all of a sudden, especially when it was the only option at first. I firmly believe we're being fed a bunch of spin and PR to help a multinational corporation make a wad of money by selling our soul from under us.
Yeah, Tottenham IS a shithole, but no more so than Hackney. It ain't Yidtopia, despite many of the blinkered comments that suggest it is.
.......A car park where Bill Nicholson’s ashes rest......
.....for shame apurs..... shakes head.....
pah! ....spurs....
Yep. For me it comes down to this:
Would I move house if I thought my family had a better future elsewhere, no matter how happy we have been where we are?
The answer is YES.
Like everyone (I'm 100% sure it's everyone) I would prefer to stay at WHL. But looking at the cold facts (and taking the sheer emotion out of it) the future for my club looks better down the road.
I don't want our club to end up like my parents - moved into a house 30 years ago next to a nice Grammar School in a clean, community-minded area; now they live next to a graffiti dressed comprehensive surrounded by houses with old sofas in the overgrown gardens and with a property valuation that makes it hard to move (without our help!).
They didn't move on when we told them to because they're emotionally attached to the area and now they're £ucked.
So in summing it all up, we stay we get mediocrity, sell our best players to maintain that mediocrity, remain in our shit-hole area without any decent transport links, hand our future over to a borough who cant run their own facilities effectively and will continue to exploit those of us who travel from the sticks and need decent transport links, as a home game is actually more time consuming than many away games, and watch our rivals excel because they've had the benefit once again of being in the night area at the right time? Oh and I hear according to Haringey's leader they've invested 15 million on improving The Hale, wow only they could see how beneficial that is to the overall picture!?, Sorry bollocks to that, i've waited a long time for us to be up there and I'd be gutted to see it all dissolve into the ether again because of history and let's face it that's all any ProN17 have to offer. I'd sooner something inthe Enfield area Pickets Lock, but to stay and go backwards.No thanks!
I'm on the sitting on the fence side of this debate. It was a well written piece and I agree the bit about Billy Nick's ashes did strike a cord.
All things being equal if you could move the Olympic site to N17 then it would be a no brainer. Let me ask you all a question. If the proposed new stadium was going to be sited for arguments sake near the Enfield junction of the M25 because it would give great access for those trying to get to the ground etc etc, would we all be up in arms so much? Is it the fact we are moving to a postcode with E in it, and perceived as being on the Spammers manner that is so much the problem? As the crow flies the Olympic site is something like 5 miles away, whilst the Boleyn is nearer I grant you but by not much. When City moved to their new stadium did me hear such anti feelings even though their new stadium is 4 miles away?
To me the problem as I see it if we stick with the Northumberland Project is, if the facts are true it's going to cost the club something like £200m more. Secondly but as we know most people make their way to WHL from distances away. I live in Barnet so the easiest way for me is by car. Now a couple of years ago Haringey Council introduced a CPZ (controlled parking zone), this has made it that much harder to park around the ground, but I’m sure not a lot of people realise but Enfield Council which borders the Lane are thinking of introducing a CPZ around the area as well. Now add in to the mix an extra 20,000 people on match days. Well it sounds like a nightmare recipe. If Haringey and the government won't stump some serious cash into the transport infrastructure and in these austere times that's hardly likely to happen, then please tell me what's the answer? Back to the Olympic site, this area is being built now with all the things you need for a modern day sporting site, and number 1 on that list is transport, compared to WHL it will be like comparing Del Boy's Reliant Robin to Alan Sugar's Bentley........there’s just no comparison.
Lastly if some of the issues could be resolved then I would love us to remain in N17, for gods sake the area needs complete regeneration and if we move out what happens to North Tottenham. Mr Lammy don't talk the talk, if you so dearly want THFC to remain, you need to walk the walk, pull your finger out and get this government or either the EU to stump some serious money into the area.
Spursstop3 you are a disgrace.
well written and articulate as ever. a refreshing change form the norm.
as regards stratford; i really hope not. we'll become just like 'them'. let's maintain the higher moral ground. north london is ours.
i like all this 'winning' and 'challenging' malarky that we have adopted recently but i had just as much pride in being spurs 10 years ago as i do now.
When do these clowns make the final decision? First im swaying one way, then the other, i want all the bollocks to end
I agree with Devonshire and Tom we should be directing our energy and anger at the council not DL. The council have done nothing to help us with our plans sweet fck all only obstruct and take the piss out of us. DL calls their bluff which is what I think this is one massive bluff and the council start crying. Where was Lammy when we needed him speaking out on our behalf if he is so concerned about the area. Why wasnt he busting a gut to secure us some funding to assist with the costs they way other clubs received money? Why didnt they genuinely assist us from the beginning instead of trying to screw us if the move is to go ahead then the inept greedy non-hlepful morons in the council will have nobody to blame but themselves. They could and should have done more.
COYS
Compared to many of the N17 lot, Spooky uses emotive musings but he still harps on and on and on about how apparent the dismissive nature of the Northumberland Project and (to quote Spooky) what the contingency plan is if we don't get the O.S.
What is the plan? And if there is a plan it wont be placing the club under strain well it, so why don't we just opt for that as the priority?