Tottenham till I die
Wednesday, October 6, 2010 at 11:57AM #2
A question was posed on a forum asking why you support who you support. Not highly original, I know, but it's always interesting to delve into the responses to see how other peoples allegiances were birthed.
Your answer ought to be geographically influenced, but commonly it's down to immediate family and on occasions, if you are devoid of having a dad (or mum) or siblings who are interested in the beautiful game you just pick whomever is top of the league. Which is why when I was a young lad everyone in London seemed to support Liverpool*.
*Two minutes silence for their current plight please people. Two minutes.
Of course, not everyone glory-hunts. And many live abroad and simply fall in love with the history or traditions of a club in another country, based on a game they've witnessed or a book they've read or the majesty of a shirt. I appreciate that not everyone is pre-selected.
I had the privilege (curse) of having a family of Spurs supporters around me. I was also born in Tottenham. Well actually, no I wasn't. A hospital on Tottenham Court Road. Well, actually the hospital was just a brisk walk from Tottenham Court Road. Nowhere near N17, but that's just a technicality. Tottenham Court Road, right? COYS.
My grandfather (God rest his soul) was a keen follower and frequenter of White Hart Lane during the 50's and 60's and my uncle, a fanatic during the 70's hardly missed a game. The latter, the one who influenced me and guided me into the light that is Lilywhite.
No rebellious I want to support someone else or I like their badge so I'm going to choose this lot instead - which wasn't uncommon, again, with people who had no given affiliations to a club when they were old enough to understand and make their selection. A successful team, usually defeating the local team as the winning option if they wished to fast-track themselves to the top tier. But plenty followed their hearts instead.
How some families managed to be split down the middle between two clubs always fascinated me. It's fragmentation that can never be resolved. My dad supports Spurs. My brother. My sister. My uncle's kids. We have no split. I did celebrate Trevor Brookings goal in the 1980 Cup final by running outside into the garden and attempting to head the ball into an imaginary net but that isn't confliction, it's a natural reaction. An acceptable lapse. A Newcastle supporting father and a Sunderland supporting son a story I remember hearing about. They hardly spoke, always fought. Football before family, always.
Reminds me of a bloke who stood in front of me in one of the East stand turnstiles back in the very early 90's. 1991 season I reckon, home to the scum. 0-0. Gooners waving their wallets at us from the Park Lane. Gazza almost scoring an own goal as I stood in the corner of the Shelf side in those cracking days of terraces. So this bloke in the queue had a Spurs and Arsenal badge on his jumper. A ridiculous paradox.
"I support both", he stated proudly.
The steward looked at me and I just blankly stared back. If you support two clubs, two rival clubs, then you've not quite grasped the concept, have you? It's like people who ask the question: Who's you favourite team? There is no place for favourite team in football. If you do it properly, you don't have a favourite team. You just have the one. A relationship for life. No break-up. Plenty of heartaches and headaches, and the two of you are together until your very last breath.
'Yeah, so, I really love Man U but I dig Real Madrid in their all white kit and also adore Wolves because they got a cool name. So Utd are my best, Madrid my second bestest and Wolves my third bestestest. If any of them play each other, I'd like a draw'
If you ever met someone who stated a resemblance of the above, I wouldn't look down on you if you smothered and buried him in a shallow grave in Epping forest. Favourite? There's no room for favouritism. Following the results of your local side, if you perhaps don't actually support your local side isn't betrayal. There are no affairs and no two-timing. 100% unequivocal commitment. You love your team, but you can have a soft spot for your local side. Bit like some Spurs fans I know who watch Barnet or Orient. They don't 'love' Barnet. They would practically (heavily metaphorically) die for Spurs.
However, every now and again we do get some Sol Campbells amongst us. Ooh.
My brother-in-law knew someone who, after a depressing Saturday at the Lane in a depressing season (I guess the mid-90's), and partly thanks to some peer-pressure from outside his group of friends, 'quit' supporting Spurs and not long after ended up an Arsenal fan. Quitting because your team lost? Spare a thought for supporters of clubs who never climb out of the lower tier divisions. The spirit of Benedict Arnold lives on with some.
I knew someone a few years back, a Hammers fan, who revealed he was a Spurs fan when he was a teenager but ended up following the Irons because his group of mates got involved with the ICF and he was more interested in the friendships and fighting than the football. It was, to him, more about being part of a group. A hooligan rather than standing on his own every Saturday at 3pm. Each to their own I guess.
My personal favourite (I'm using that word here because it's in context) has to be the story about these two blokes (in Leyton at the time), one of whom was completely disinterested in football and the other a West Ham fan. They both lusted after this one girl who was an Arsenal supporter. And both of them became gooners as a consequence to win her over. They both actually dated her, one after the other (she went out with one, dumped him then went out with the other one). The two blokes even had a punch up at one point outside the local pub. Heated stuff. The bloke who supported West Ham and defected for the sake of having her thighs wrapped round his back, paraded himself in a JVC shirt often without shame.
It's a bit like shitting yourself in public whilst wearing white trousers. You will never live it down. Nobody will forget the humiliation. The white trousers are bad enough, but the diarrhoea? It will define you forever. How could anyone look you in the eyes and take you seriously after something like that? You would automatically lose all credibility. For life. A few years later I spotted him back in a West Ham shirt. Pathetic.
You simply cannot disdain the fabric of football and the lack of its complexities relating to allegiances. It's quite simple. You choose your team and are bound to them for life. No get out clause. That's it.
As for me, I have an almost five month old baby daughter (I've managed to part name her after our beloved club - work it out yourselves) so getting her to follow the Spurs might be a difficult task if her mother pampers her with shopping trips, Jimmy Choos and Gucci handbags when she's old enough to succumb to the frivolous vanity driven past-times of womanhood. However, there is hope. When she was just two months old, she projectile vomited when Cesc Fabregas appeared on the tv during a Sky Sports News report. There's hope for my THFC family bloodline yet.
TTID.
You've been reading the second part of Spooky's International Break diary journals.
Part one can be read here.
Reader Comments (140)
Good stuff Spooky have a related dilemma with the missus' family from Islington Gooner background. It's in their family for years (like Spurs is in mine) so in a way, it's difficult to criticise.
Meanwhile Sullivan spouting off should help our cause for the new stadium no end: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=830342&sec=england&cc=5739
Sorry, what's up with my grammar? Let's try again.
Good stuff Spooky. I have a related dilemma with the missus' family from Islington Gooner background. It's in their family for years (like Spurs is in mine) so in a way, it's difficult to criticise.
Meanwhile Sullivan spouting off should help our cause for the new stadium no end: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=830342&sec=england&cc=5739
I really should double check before posting. COYS!
Quality read that. I ended up a Yid having gone to the Lane with friends. Wasn't that interested in football before hand, not in a crazy passionate way. Was sucked into it and have never looked back. Father, cricket man. So down to location and friends for me (lived in North London at the time, so it could have easily been them lot).
Anyone who changes their team in adult life is a cunt and should be treated like one from that point onwards.
My family were all Man City fans, Grandad never missed a game when they left Manchester for the Isle of Man he got Uncle Chas to post the "Football Pink" over every monday.
Some daft 'erbert got Grandad a book about Spurs Double winners as a Xmas present. He stuck it at the back of his bookcase, where a young lad found it whilst rooting through Grandad's books. That was it, I was a Spurs fan. I was lucky enough to grow up in the Hoddle era, Ardiles, Villa, Perryman etc. Childhood Hero's one and all. Even Dave Leaworthy, the YTS kid who scored (against Oxford?) was a childhood hero!
I get to the odd Man City vs Spurs game with my sister/mum, sat with them in their end. That's hard! I'll be at the Lane in November. Tottenham til I die. Sorry Grandad.
I had no family and no-one I knew liked football apart from some bigger boys at school who liked Everton. I didn't like those bigger boys and to this day I know when we beat them, wherever those bigger boys are they'll be pissed off which makes me happy.
Anyway, I didn't choose the team top of the league, nor did I read a book about Spurs and fall in love with the tradition. I watched Italia 90 and fell in love with Gazza and Lineker. Obviously, when I say love I mean a man cruch, but actual love. That'd be just plain weird. As luck would have it, both played for the same club. 20 years on and I wonder sometimes why they didn't play for Man United. ;-)
Tottenham till I die. Always in my blood.
Starsky, that's brilliant.
Agree there AoC.
Starsky, that's the type of romantic notion of support you just can't argue with.
Nice article, having kids in the modern family these days also brings about further issues. My ex, was a gooner, shame i know, but there you go opposites attract ! When we split, she convinced my eldest boy to be gooner, which to his credit he still is, he is only 9 years old & i have been on his back for 9 years trying to convert him. My other son is 7 & he is Spurs. It makes for interesting evenings & good banter.
I take them both to the Lane when i can & we always have a good day out.
Sure, you can have football rivalry & banter, but hatred is a very strong word & where family is concerened if you can actually hate then its you that needs to look in the mirror.
I used to live in Hendon & have loved Spurs all my life, now i've escaped the rat race & live in a Buckinhamshire village makes my support only stronger for my Spurs.
COYS
If you marry/go out with someone who has strong ties with another club, that's when it might get messy. Spooky, your other half, you didn't mention her allegiance? Dare I ask?
My current gf has Palace supporting dad and brothers but she has not much interest in footie. Not that I'm about to settle down. Got more important stuff to do like clubbing and drinking.
From all other contributors statements I am starting to feel very old. My first match at WHL was in 1948. We were in the old 2nd division at home to Southampton. Charlie Wayman was their star. I am not sure if Alf Ramsey played for them or us. My dad sat me on the wall in the West stand, between the "G" and "H" in the days when the half time scores were put up against the alphabet. I was that close to the pitch I could smell the sweat and embrocation of the players as they went by down the wing. I was a fixed Spurs supporter. Since those days I have been to very few matches, now, living in Mallorca, none at all. But I was at the replay against Sunderland in the Double year. I slept on the pavement to get tickets for the Benfica game. Memories are coming back and I just feel that our 'Spurs are going back to where we belong.
Am I allowed to say COYS?
Gold first now Sullivan. Will these twats from East London ever shut the fuck up?
On topic, my old man is a gooner. My older brother as well. My mates were all Spurs and ended up going to games on the sly. Never looked back, never supported the scum or went to Highbury in the home end. But no grief at home plenty of bantering and piss taking.
Thanks Spooky, I was also went on a corp freebie at Old Trafford, where I had to bite my tongue as Pav scored in the FA cup, and just been offered a seat for the NLD, by my brother in law, who is going with the local Arse supporters club. Sit in their end, with that lot? FO! I shall go to the Lane, with my lot.
It's hard living so far away from Spurs, but they're always in my mind. C O Y S!
My uncle's a Season ticket holder, so I get programs, Cup Final flags and the odd spare ticket!
(ps - Grandad never spoke to me for days after the 81 FA Cup replay, and he NEVER forgave Tommy Hutchison for his OG).
Geoff, your story warms my young heart.
Bring back the Glory days, COYS
Geoff, welcome to the fountain of youth.
In all seriousness, hairs on the back of my neck standing tall, reading your post. What I wouldn't give for a time machine to witness games from the black and white era.
Can you imagine a modern day teen of this decade, in 50 years time looking back and chatting away on a blog about their first game?
"I got to the ground, sat in our £70 seats and left ten minutes before the end to beat the traffic"
My dad never followed football, though his dad was a Arsenal fan so it was his best friend and their kids that got me and my brother into supporting Spurs. As I got older the passion for my team grew with me, the same can't be said for my older brother unfortunately. When he was about 13 or 14 (1996 ish) he switched to Arsenal, for the "reason" that he knew more about arsenal than he did about spurs, I'm thinking the fact that his friends were mostly Arsenal fans had something to do with it. I argued back that the fact that you know more about arsenal is more about you being a poor supporter than more an Arsenal fan. Now he seems to hate spurs, for no other reason than its what is expected from an Arsenal fan. He is now a season ticket holder at Arsenal and just goes to show why its like a library over there, just because too many people jumped on the bandwagon when they were winning things. I however remained a spur got my first season ticket in the 02/03 season but had to give it up to go to uni in Sheffield and then finally got another last season (what a season). I still live in Sheffield at the moment but I'm moving back to London in time for next season and I can't wait! But just to reassure you guys I never let my brother forget he started out as a spur and always tell everyone he ever introduces me to. He will never forget, I'll make sure of that.
I became a Spurs fan after watching the 1981 Cup final. Pure magic.
I used to study in London, and went to the Lane a few times. Now it's more difficult, I last went in 2009 (first time in like 20 years) only to see them lose to Man U! I did manage to buy a Spurs mug, though. Maybe with luck will be able to catch a CL game in the later stages (we'll see).
I am a lone voice in my family, some uncles, brother and some cousins all support Man U. Sister A is a goonette, Sister B and my daughter follow Chelsea (but not as real supporters). Nephew is Chelsea nutter (Drogba fan) His father, my brother-in-law follows Liverpool (I think).
The wife and her family otherwise dont really follow football. To her credit , she tolerates my obsession and even asks occasionally how they are doing.
On Cable here, we now have German football, Spanish football, CL, EPL, Brazilian football, snippets from France and Holland, and our own Asian football. (Asian Champions League offers a refreshing look at the vast differences in standard across entire Asian continent). If you can afford it, one could watch anything and everything. So it was with great pride (and subsequent horror) that I sat down to catch Spurs play Young Boys in the first leg.
I will admit, in years gone past, I always expected Spurs to screw up on live matches I watched. I was seldom disappointed. Lately however, I have come to expect some kind of result as a minimum, such that it was disappointing if an opportunity to beat one of L'ARSE, MANURE or CHELSKI is missed (Liverpool, with all due respect, cannot be included in this company). Sigh.
How bout this?
When i first watched football i followed Leeds, but after a year they got relegated(bad luck?). I was than 7 or 8 then. They didnt televise their games, so i was lost till i saw Spurs play with Keano, easily becoming my idol. Soon enough, i have supported Spurs all my life! Now im 17! Great 8+ years!
Evryone in my family supported Liverpool, except my twin who supports Arsenal!! Im born in Singapore though, soo no local clubs!! But i didnt fall for peer pressure, TTID!!!
Tat dosent make me a jerk, does it?
7/8, I'll let you off.
Phew thanks Spooky, everyone keeps laughin at me, jus because almost everyone in Singapore supports focking United, Chelsea, Arsenal or United!!(most of them know nothin bout their club's history!)
FFS, at least i dont support a club because they win trophies, i support Spurs cause i love them!!!!!!!!!!
Hell yea, do i wear my Spurs jersey with pride and rub it in my twin's face, last year after we won 2-1(finally)!!!!!!!!!!!
i meant United, chelsea, liverpool(haha) and Arsenal*
My step dad was spammer and hated spurs. It left me with very little choice. Spurs fan now for almost 30 years. COYS!!!
I envy you're blue blood Spooky, I have two brothers who are gooners (one a convert from QPR) and another West Ham fan. I stood by the corner flag at Spurs v Wolves back when Martin Chivers wore short trousers and was hooked there and then. There has been much heartache since then but it's better to love and lose than not to love at all.
North London born and breed. All Spurs in household going back to the 50's.
Spooky - how have you part Spurs named your daughter? Is her name Vedran? If so, I approve.
hahaha
My grandmothers maiden name was Wood and her whole family came from Wood Green.I was told as a boy that I could not walk down Wood Green Highstreet without passing a relative.So I qualify myself as a Londonner not because I was born within the sound of Bow Bells,but because I was born within The sound of White Hart Lane.I saw my first Spurs match in 1948
before my boyhood hero,goalkeeper Ted Ditchburn returned from Military service.I remember "Butcher Ward' as captain and then Ronnie Burgess.I remember at one time Spurs had 4 or 5 "Ronnies" playing for them in the same match.I remember seeing Alf Ramsey play.These days have all fallen into the shadow of the great years that followed.4 generations of my family have visited White Hart Lane and I would be very sad if Spurs left the area
seen
great topic
I was born in darkest sarf lahndan, dragged up in Woolwich (Ha!) by a single mum in the 1970's. My Uncle who I worshipped on the fact that he was first a glam rock DJ & Noddy Holder look alike, then joined the RAF... dont ask.... supported Spurs (His Dad & Brother were gooners) and took me to my first game at WHL. Drew 3-3 against Everton with Alfie Conn (I think) scoring a hat-trick....
Hooked is not the word, even though we went down that year and all through the 80's I got regularly mauled by my Millwall mates on the shit council estate..... Was there at the Uefa final (hopped school to get in the queue at the ground at about 4.30) and numerous other glory nights. Used to bring my sister up with me sometimes and shes been a season ticket holder with me since the late 90's..... makes me laugh when i hear, Fu#k off back to South London being sung....
Gave my season ticket up in 2004 due to travel distance (I think) but finally got it back two years ago after 2 years of the Mini-season ticket members things... just couldnt not come to WHL!....
Looks like i'll be fulfilling an 80's boyhood dream of watching the Mighty Spurs play away in Europe by doing all 3 away CL games now.... San Siro Baby!!
TTID... COYMFS
thfc1882, Dude, that was me. I also fell in love with Gazza, Linekar and Waddle during the 1990 world cup. Waddle wasnt playing for spurs after that, but Gazza and Linekar were. Those 2 guys were brilliant.
Spooky,
What you say about not having favourite and second favourite football clubs is bollocks.
I support Spurs and Barcelona pretty much equally. Maybe I would like to see Spurs do better than Barça because there'll always be next season for Barça to win the Champions league, whereas with Spurs success feels all that little bit more special.
But when I was a kid my two teams never crossed paths so I never had to choose.
Don't see how you do it Spanish. It's a rarity to find someone who is genuinely a supporter of two clubs. Do both clubs equally make you sick in the gut from nerves when they play?
Fair enough Spanish. From my perspective, because I couldn't, I just can't imagine anyone else could. Mainly because one team can give you a monumental headache, I can't see how I would be able to juggle the emotional upheaval of having two to concern myself with.
Supporting two clubs in different nations, is probably excusable as opposed to admitting you love Spurs and Arsenal.
Anyone been to Orient recently? What in Gods name are those flats built into the ground all about? Look out one window onto the pitch and you can watch average football, look out the other and onto the high road and you can see people getting knifed/mugged. They think of everything these days
Talking of Spurs/Arsenal. I'm sort of remembering bits and pieces of the conversation at the turnstile. I'm certain the steward asked him 'what happens when they play each other, who do you support'. He's answer was full of stuttering but he eventually said something like, "To make it fair, I support the team the team who are playing at home on that day, but would still be happy if the other team won".
Nutter.
However, he was not Bruce Forsyth if anyone is wondering. I can confirm that much at least.
Dad, Uncle and Grandad were Spurs. So I was Spurs. (Mum and her side of family not keen on football.)
Then along came my bullying goonscum arehole stepfather who only made me more staunch of a yiddo.
Then got older, learnt my history and my love for Spurs gets deeper with every passing year.
COYS
If I had to choose a second team it would Barca. Their history fascinates me. Spanish football in general is rich with rivalries, politics, cultural differences more so I think than any other footballing nation. Something about the Catalan club.
We need a group hug at the end of this.
A suggestion BTW.
What are everyone's second most hated clubs? (I'm assuming everyone's most hated is woolwich.)
(1) most hated
(5) least hated
5 Manchester United
4 Leeds United
3 West Ham
2 Chelsea
1 Arsenal
Focussed from Singapore I just cant believe the similarity...been a spurs fan since 1981..u guessed it..the FA final..Ardeles..Villa..Archibald..the whole lot..was also in the Man U game last september..my first game since 1991 FA against Man U..difference is however..i might well be the only real spurs supporter here in the Middle east..so reading all what has been written here makes me feel so at home..thank you guys..!
(1) most hated
(5) least hated
1. Woolwich Wanderers
2. Woolwich Wanderers
3. Woolwich Wanderers
4. Woolwich Wanderers
5. Woolwich Wanderers
Author of comment , then i am a cunt. I support two teams being my local club Kaa Gent and spurs (since the Ginola days). But my whole family supports our fierce rivals FC Bruges (the second biggest team in Belgium) and my dad, uncle ... are Manure fans.
Untill i was 16 yrs old and started playing for my local club Kaa Gent (who were a second string team then), i followed my dad to fc Bruges but always found something odd about supporting a team from our rival city. But when i started going to games of Kaa Gent i felt more at home , more connected and more involved (also becaus i was a youth player there off course) with the club , the ground and the fans. And meanwhile i started loathing everything about Bruges.
So i changed from a topteam in Belgium to their little brother (as they call it) who were almost bankrupt and underachieving. But now (almost 15 yrs later) we are finally reaching their level and i have always been a proud fan , even in the dark relegation battle days.
Something timeless about those early 80's. The football, possibly hasn't aged as well as you might wish (watch old games, in full, and you'll see what I mean) but the players, the styles, the kits, the crowds - the fact that you remember the 81 final above and beyond most of the finals from the mid-90s' onwards says it all.
They can bang on about us living in the past, but what a fucking past.
The boys from the Lane.
We need a cup final, and a new cup final song to inspire the next generation, "Rafa's Dream", the boys from White Vaart Lane...., or maybe Moddle and Huddle could relive the Glory years of "Diamand Lights"........the football we are playing now will surely capture the hearts of some young lads and lassies for the future? Who else throws the kitchen sink forward like we do now and has the skills and craft we have on display?
that first half against Citeh on opening day took my breath away, as I watched with my Dad (city fan!)
I remeber someone saying once that the only constant in your life is your football team. Friends, cars, jobs, houses, they all come and go, you can even change your wife, but you can't change your football team.
Belgian, you've got the wrong end of the stick. I'm talking about after the point of no return. Your story, its as good as Starkys in my eyes. You find yourself. Thats different to becoming a fully fledged fan and then deserting them for another. Nowt wrong with your change of heart because its from the heart, at least thats how the story comes across to me.
I was born nowhere near N17. A short walk from the Melbourne Cricket Ground to be precise. I started taking an interest in Spurs as a teenager in the 70s through a mate's older brother who followed the club. He used to buy all these football magazines like Shoot, which I used to read religiously and eventually started to buy. It was difficult to get much coverage of the English League until the later 70s, when we started to get highlight shows late on Saturday night. Then the FA Cup live came along.
I realised that when I woke up the old man with my screaming, after Villa's goal in the 81 FA Cup Final I was a Spurs fan forever.
Good Times..Bad Times..once the club is in your blood, they are a part of you.
Pathalogical hatred of Arsenal, Man U and Chelsea - for years before they were a success, hated those mohawk/skinhead supporters, just came as natural as a babys smile.
Yes Spooky. Tottenham till the day I'm dead and buried.
Another corker. Nice one Belgian. You've made up for your duff ITK info about Sandro that left me with burnt fingers.
I grew up with no family allegiance. I fancied supporting Spurs on the basis that they weren't that Scum down the road. All the kids at primary school (well all the c#nts anyway) supported the Arse and there was no way I was going down that route even though they were closer. As it happens, I grew up just off the very same Tottenham Court Road so there are easy parallels with Mr Spooky. At around 8, with a good feeling towards the mighty Spurs, I watched in awe as Hoddle, Ardiles and Villa strutted their stuff around the Lane. Although I was always a big fan of a certain Steve Perryman too. A truly dignified player. After that, there was only one way you could possibly go
Finally made up for it did i , what a relief. And author of Comment , i take that as a real compliment , thank you both.
On another note , the rise of Spurs is equal to the rise of Kaa Gent in a lot of ways , if Spurs win then Gent wins and both teams qualified for the CL qualifications for the first time last year.
But i would be really sick if one day both teams would meet in Europe. I like Spurs coming to Belgium and beating everybody but the odd chance existed that Spurs and Gent coud meet in the last round of CL qualifiers this year ...
That would have been the death of me , i think.
That might be a frightening thought there Belgian, I would say because during such a game you might actually find yourself wanting one of the sides to win that little more than the other.