Carling Cup Obituary
Wednesday, December 2, 2009 at 9:27AM Having slept on it and now looking back on last nights disappointment, there is no doubt we deserved to be knocked out. We lost because we appear to have an apologetic streak of worry and concern embedded into our players, as if daring to beat United is blasphemy. Simply put, there is a mental weakness that stops any form of guile or belief. For every incident that has played out against us (the Mendes goal, the penalty decisions, the comebacks) the players seem to have accepted defeat in their minds before the game has even kicked off.
Now I know that if you took the game, minute by minute, you could argue that we didn't actually play too badly. We had a decent amount of possession and created a few chances. But then when you consider the side they fielded and the fact that our lot were lacking any form of urgency, you can only question why there was a failure from the players to change gear. Dictate the tempo.
We bottled it when it was easier to give it a go and strike them down. It was a limp and useless day trip for all concerned. Perhaps 'bottled it' is too harsh a phrase. We couldn't be arsed to step up.
What's the solution to this problem? Grow some balls and show the opposition no respect. That would do for starters, and perhaps we could apply the same ethic to our north London neighbours.
We did that last season when we led Utd 2-0 at Old Trafford only to collapse mentally thanks to an undeserved penalty, such is our powder-puff backbone in these games. So the players do have it in them to swagger with intent. Other than the fact they remain susceptible to self-ruin at the slightest turn.
The counter-arguments to the Carling Cup defeat, however, is that the players selected - as a unit - did not have enough botheredness to really turn it on. Which might have had to do with Harry's pre-match comments about the Cup not being as important than the Prem and the fact that certain fringe players are fringe players for a reason (although what Harry tells the press and what he tells the players might be far apart in terms of requirements).
Or you could wipe away all the psychological analysis and conclude that we did pretty well, just didn't do enough with our chances in front of goal and conceded two sucker-punch goals, which our defence made comfortable for the accepting Gibson.
As ever, it's dependant on you and your perspective. Perhaps taking 2 or 3 first team players out of our line-up has a detrimental effect, proving that the depth in squad only looks good on paper.
What's guaranteed is a fully strength (as far as injuries will allow) line-up at Everton WILL give us 100% commitment come Sunday. It's a shame we can't show the same type of application in all games. Had last nights tie been played at home, in front of 33,000 Spurs fans, I'd bet the performance and application of players would have been far greater. Instead, 3,000 Spurs fans had a completely wasted evening.
Onwards and upwards.
Reader Comments (45)
At least a draw at everton followed by two home wins at man city and wolves should be what we are looking for. Hopefully Modric will play a part in the everton game, we really did miss him initially after his injury
lets not panic
i thought it was much like the villa game but without a goal
we had good possesion and some decent chances that on another day would have gone in
It was a gutless performance last night. Not even gutless, actually, just shuggingly inept.
Your analysis is perhaps greater than the game warranted!
We lost, we were poor, I feel for my fellow spurs fans who made their way to have that sort of performance (or lack of) turned out.
If we start to do this in the league you can forget top 6 let alone even contemplating top 4.
Let's move on to Everton, always a tough game, but without Arteta, and with their current injuries they are definitely beatable.
If Defoe wasnt such a greedy fuck and squared the ball to keano in the first half then we would have been one up. He needs to lift his head more how many times has he done that I can remember plenty of buthchered chances because of his greedyness. Is all well and good banging in 5 goals against the mighty Wigan but its a team fucking game harry needs to have a word with him about this and make sure he does the right thing at the right time in the big games.
It's a question for the ages, why we can not muster up a complete performance in these types of games. Not sure it was anything like the Villa game though. We completely bossed that match in the second forty-five.
There was a lethargy to the performance, it was like one of the poor friendlies at the Wembley Cup. Our performance was thoroughly insipid across the park. The only vague bright spark was the occasional foray forward from Bale, who showed application, although a lack of positioning. Will he replace the ACN bound Ekotto?
Absolutely topyid, I've been annoyed about that myself ever since seeing it.
I also had it in my mind previous to that, on Sunday at the death instead of shooting he could have slid Lennon in and it would have offered a greater chance of a goal.
Defoe's greediness arguably costs us points quite often, and I agree something must be done about this.
watched all about 5 mins of it, i saw one good move when at the end of it jenas suddenly thought he was Pele and ballooned it over the bar. he got me so angry i turned off. Was not suprised at all we lost. Its one thing me writing the game off as lost but for the players to do it is unforgivable. Jenas and Bentley just arent cutting the mustard and need to be replaced with players with some fire in their belly. The thing is, Jenas gives the impression that even this morning after such a woeful display he'll still be strutting around thinking hes the daddy. how wrong he is.
Forget top 4 people !!!!!!!!!!!! we're improving but are a long long way off yet.
that must be Bentleys last game in a spurs shirt, what a shocker!
I think Harry made a major mistake before the game in saying that we are focusing on the top 4 as I beleive that gave the players every excuse they needed to take their foot of the gas.
Yes we had possession but I have not seen us as wasteful as that since the Ramos era.
I also think the fact that there is no reserve football needs to come into question as well as we are expecting performances from players who only play once every 4 weeks and its just not going to happen.
Regarding Bentley - it was like watching him submit a transfer request whilst on the pitch and dont get me started on hutton......
I'm not a happy boy this morning.
it was a slow and labored performance, David Bentley has forgotten how to cross and needs to go, Defo and Kenae did not play together but there were a few positives. Gomes decision making was excellent and he had to chance with the two goals but the best part of yesterday was watching Bale finally show some promise and beat players and perhaps the only player who actually injected some pace and drive in the team which is great coz i believe BAE needs a little rest!!!
I hear you Fuzzy, were not being negative its just how it is hopefully Harry can see it too, JD's biggest weakness, and he does not have many, is his decision making / awareness in many instances its just downright poor. It use to be running offside all the time but he seems to have sorted that out, fingers crossed. Its not just about him its about the team, I think Harry will have a word it was a blatant terrible decision to take a shot instead of squaring it for the tap in into an empty net, very very frustrating. Onwards and upwards though lets take it out on Everton on Sunday and get back to winning ways.
One game and suddenly we are shit? Yesterday we were for sure going to finish top 4 and today most think we can't even finish top 6!!
As spooky said before we won't be playing manure away all year. So get a grip and get behind the team.
I think this game will already be forgotten about come tea time. It bears no relevance on the push for 4th.
Good article, I enjoyed reading. I agree with your psychological analysis, and found our mental capitulation strange given that we've appear pretty determined in recent weeks, eg at Villa. It seemed to me that the more Bentley came into the game, the more a feeling of indecisive self-regard seemed to creep through our ranks. I feel sorry for the guy, I do but I think we need to get shot of him.
Ah, you are stirring up memories of last year's defeat. Yes we did collapse after that penalty. And now I remember how much I hated 'Arry's whining about it after the match. As though the team was somehow justified in falling apart because of a bad decision. That is my least favorite thing about Redknapp. I have a great deal of respect for the man but he tends to whinge a bit too much. And I humbly submit to you that this flows downward to the players.
There is no bloody excuse for falling apart after a bad decision and a manager shouldn't even acknowledge such a mentally/morally weak approach much less sanction it on live television. Get stuck in 'Arry and cut out the excuses.
No ones saying were shit Nand and everyone is behind the team, the fact of the matter is Utd's 2nd string were there for the taking last night we should have put them away but we didnt through a combination of some of the players who started not turning up and bad decision making. We want to be a top 4 team then we need to act like one and be ruthless and do the right thing at the right time like all the top teams do.
Whether Redknapp is putting all his eggs in one basket I don't know,but the team last night played like that..what's the point of having a squad like we have and then go out so meekly in the carling cup, is the same going to happen in the FA cup too?..You can almost understand Villa doing that last season with their threadbare squad but to see Spurs do that last night was disappointing to say the least..
I said last night it was like watching a friendly or exhibition match and my comments were echoed by Redknapp in the reports I have read.The thing was Man ure weren't even any good last night they played with ten men as welbeck was invisible and still beat us comfortably,this inferiority complex and sense of defeat from the player's before we even go out on the pitch against the top teams has to change,if we're ever to change anything,and as for jenas he just need to leave as soon as possible.We can all remember great displays and great goals from him,but at his age and the way he is we're never going to get anything approaching consistency from him..He needs to go.
All this game did for me was to confirm to me that Bentley, Hutton and possibly Bale are just not cut out for a team that has top 4 ambitions. Don't get me wrong, i am not slagging off my own players as i don't do that but i just think they are simply not good enough. First 20 mins last night were good but that is typical Spurs. We don't take our golden chances but let the other team score their 2 half chances. Very frustrating but 3rd in December!! Aint all bad!! COYS!
To me its a mindset issue - ManU have the can do mindset whereas Spurs have the Can't do mindset. This was an opportunity to build some real confidence in our ability to beat the best teams and we were lethargic at best. I felt sorry for my fellow fans who had made the journey. I felt sorry for David Bentley - he just can't do it - if he fell into a bucket of nipples he'd come out sucking his own thumb.
I know one game doesn't make a bad team but this isn't one game - we crumble eveytime against Utd. Champions League contenders? I'm not so sure with this Can't do attitude
One last point I dont know if its Harry tactics or the teams application of them, but we seem to struggle against teams who play 4-3-3 against us, think the gooners movement at the Emirates this season, Burnley last season away ( Carling cup 1st half) and last night when Carrick came on and Utd changed their formation, we seem to get a little over run when we face a side set up this way I think we need to conjur up a plan of some description to counter it we dont seem to cope very well against it.
Bale's runs aside, how many times does he give the ball away with shit passes, it's something I keep seeing every time he plays, I can certainly see why he doesn't play regularly, he puts the rest of the defence (as well as himself) under unneccesary pressure. At least Hutton got stuck in, andt when he goes in for a tackle you know he'll either take the ball or the man.
In saying this, they were all piss poor. I had a feeling yesterday that this would happen, so i'm not overly shocked to be honest. I suppose it's one less distraction and another 2 games we won't have to play when we would inevitably get drawn against a full strength Chelsea in the semi final...
I must have been watching a different game to everyone else! Ok I agree that Spurs withered on the vine as the second half progressed and that was very disappointing. But before that all the football was played by Spurs. At times they humiliated Man Utd. The difference was that Utd had two shots on target from long range and scored two goals. Spurs on the other hand were wasteful in front of goal. Again the final ball wasnt good enough and some Spurs players were sloppy, granted. However if this was a boxing match Spurs would have won comfortably on points. Yes Spurs can play better but Utd were generally poor apart from two good goals. I consider Spurs good enough for the top four. I hope they make it this year as I am sure most neutrals do
The article is spot on.
Te be beaten by a reserve team is undesirable. To be beaten by a reserve team that didn't get out of first gear or break into a sweat is absolutely unacceptable.
Powder puff football from Spurs with no sense of urgency or threat. Once again showed that Lennon must stick to playing on the right and Keane is no more than back up to the first team. In a game like yesterdays Keane, as captain, should have been demanding more from his men however he neither motivates nor leads by example. A coincidence that our performances were much improved in the previous 2 games without him - I think not.
No passion, no desire, no fight!!
HARRY OUT
To those critical of JD's performances recently, have a word with yourselves will you. There's constructive criticism, and then there's slagging off. Whilst there maybe a few things he needs to work on (and this applies to all players in the PL), we'd be much weaker without him on our side.
Trust me. This result will be a blessing in disguise come April.
What is with all the doom and gloom! Sometimes I am embarrassed to be a spurs fan when I read some of the negative comments after we lose a pretty meaningless game like last night. We have as most teams been playing as good as our second string in this competition. Letting fringe players stake their claim. Redknapp said before the game that the league is the clubs priority and for me that is just fine. The year we were closest to finishing 4th we were out of both cup competitions in the first round. Need I remind anyone that after the glory of winning the carling cup two years ago the players performance fell off the edge of a cliff for the rest of the season!
I think Redknapp had this in the back of his mind and although I don't think for a second that we threw the towel at it last night the team we're 100% committed. We lost to the league champions and current carling cup holders on their own patch. It was a good opportunity to break banisht the hoodoo but it has been 8 years since we have beaten them in any competition and 20 years since we beat them at OT. We played very well and even under pressure we tried to pass the ball and our statistics have been astounding! Utd had two chances two shots and two goals in the first half. No matter what team they put out if and when the league champions get a lead like that it is curtains. But this is in in a week where we put 9 past another premier league side and outpassed Villa (our rivals for a CL spot) by 394-170 completed. These stats are like Barcelona. We have a real cutting edge to our play this year with 4 hatricks between 3 strikers. Add to this the current form of Kranjar and huddlestone both chipping in with goals. Modric is a week maybe two away from a return. Can anyone stretch their imagination enough to remember back to how we play with him in the side?
Stop with the negativity already! Embrace the joy of competing for the a place in the top four whether we get there or not. It is cliched but this time last year we were seriouslu concerned about being relagated! Redknapp has done wonders with the players he has and the ones he has recruited. We are approaching another transfer window and he will work his magic again, no doubt.
Is Defoe Greedy? YES! as all good stirkers should be. If he miss placed the pass to Keane Redknapp would have had his head on a plate! Strikers are coached to shoot on site and need I remind you he is the PLs leading scorer and has a shot to goal ratio better than anyone in the leage (bar Micheal owen)! He was right to shoot!
Stop with you whinging and enjoy being a spurs fan for a change!
Enjoy being third from top as opposed to third from bottom! And SUPPORT your team!!!
I have no doubt if we continue to push and run like we have in our last three games we will get the breaks more often then not 6/7 points from our next three games and we will be in the top three going into 2010! What a year and I for one am really enjoying being a spurs fan!!!!!!!
NEVER PLAY LENNON OUT OF POSITION!
Always play your best players in their best positions and then build a side around that. One option would have been to play Rose (a natural left winger) on the left, play Lennon on the right and tell Bentley to F-off. Lack of confidence is one thing, but being able to beat the first defender with a cross or corner is another.
Redknapp f-d up last night. We had a chance to be in the semis and he blew it.
Who cares about the Carling Cup.
FA Cup is ours this season.
Is it such a bad thing we're out if you look at who's still in the Carling cup?
A whole lot of effort saved I think and It's probably a distraction we can't afford. Considering the side we put out (mostly 2nd string) it shows we don't have the depth to really challenge on too many fronts just yet anyway and of all the competitions we should be accepting sacrificing this one.
However, on that side we put out, I would have hoped we could have provided more of a challenge to that type of United team and I'm mostly disappointed in Bentley & Jenas who I though were both awful. Jenas didn't seem interested but Bentley really concerned me because he was abolutely terrible and I can't understand how we've managed to make him so poor! I can understand the lack of games is a problem but do these guys not understand competition for places and to push themselves to put them in the frame for 1st team??
I think that was actually a principle difference between the two teams last night in that the United squad were eager to show what they could do and our overpaid "stars" think they should have better!
So, for me the problem is the wrong attitude (particularily from Jenas & Bentley) and I'm not disappointed in leaving the competition but just maybe the manner we did it.
Tottenham will win next week against the toffees.
I live in South Africa, and the majority of the educated people here don't watch EPL football. All they want is Cricket and Rugby. All they know is that they support either Man United or Chelsea or them wankers in red. Now I have all these bitches telling me that we sucked last night, they didn't see the game, they just know we lost and because we lost we played poor football and don't have a chance in hell. I feel that Spurs did in fact play well, but we just didn't play good enough.
Coops you hit the nail on the head,over the last two games we have had balance to the team,
but last night when I saw the team sheets I knew it was going to end in disaster,
playing Lennon out of postion was just asking for trouble,so yes Harry did get it wrong,Luka come back mate we need you,Coys,ps any know what was wrong with Ekotto last night?
At the end of the day its a good thing were out of the carling cup, arsenal, mancit, chelsea and villa are still left so we may have got through but wouldnt of been favourites to win anyways, we could do with the rest.
Coz it was man utd away and it was a sky live game of course we are disappointed.
With the players who did play it was pritty bad, Hutton and Bentley need to be shipped on so players like Kyle Naughton and Danny Rose can play in these type of games, they were both bad, but by far the worst performance of the night was robbie keanes, absolutely shocking, hes getting picked on reputation, he doesnt do anything in a game, crouch isnt much better, i think we have everything but just need a striker to link play with defoe,
I really hope he uses Modric in this role to not upset the midfield we have he can link play and can score so we have a line up such as
GOMES
CORLUKA BASSONG/KING WOODY/DAWSON BAE
LENNON HUDDLESTONE PALACIOS KRANCJAR
MODRIC
DEFOE
Everyone gonna say but then whos gonna hold the ball up, but we have nobody who does that effectively anyway, modric will apply an outlet from midfield to attack he can hold onto the ball, i hope redknapp trys it, because krancjar doesnt deserve to be dropped
"if this was a boxing match Spurs would have won comfortably on points"
Well said that man!
Plesant Surprised, I watched the match on prime-time German TV and that was the commentators opinion too.
Is it now customary to refer to all players that participate in a carling cup game as 'youngsters'?
I thought our youngster at the back, dawson played very well and should hold his head high. The youngster Bale looked impressive going forward and gave their youngster Gary Neville alot of problems. Other than that, the rest of our youngsters had no passion and could not be arsed. I can't believe our youngsters have fallen into the same category as the youngsters (or are they kids) from up the road and dont give a toss about this cup..................anyone remember how fantastic it was to win it not that long ago against Chelskis youngsters?
Lets hope our youngsters grow up fast and do the business against Everton this Sunday.
PS: I wish the youngster O'hara was playing for us last night, at least he appears to give a toss.
To those defending the team/ performance and who accuse some of us of being negative, its not the fact we lost to a mixture of Man Utds first/ second string, its the way that we lost.
No drive no determination just roll over and accept your fate. We should be better than that. Why should we as supporters accept a half hearted effort like that ?
I did expect them to give it a real go in the second half but most of them barely broke sweat.
If nothing else, are we not entitled to expect 100% effort ?
At half-time the BBC stats showed Man U had committed 7 fouls and we had committed 1.
I don't want to see the team kicking opponents up in the air, but 1 foul in 45 minutes ?
Either means our tackles were perfectly timed or we did not bother making any.
Until the team grow some balls, we will not compete with let alone beat any of the sky 4 on their own turf.
Anyone know where we can buy the players a product for testicle enlargement ?
I think this isn't something we should be annoyed or bitching about now. It may turn out to be a blessing in disguise, much like not having europe to contend with this season. However if we do fail in our top four aspirations then, and I think, only then can we say this was a stupid game to lose when they were there for the taking.
Make no mistake, we were the better team. Although we didn't pass well enough and "certain" players underperformed. If we had taken the chances we were given like they did, none of this would really matter right now because we'd be through. I'm prepared to draw a line under this, so should the rest of the fans and the players DEFINATELY should. Everton at the weekend, another villa/wigan performance and last night will be forgotten.....at least till the end of the season when the top four is decided.
P.S. What twat calls for harry's head now! its fickle people like that behind the decisions that kill a club and their ambitions. Yes thats you "Tug"
Couldn't agree more Cej! You are very clever when it comes to Spurs talk.
800 mile round trip by plane (no other way for me I'm afraid) overnight in a hotel before and after, only to confirm my fear that our 'back up' players are not really first team grade.
WTF was Keano doing all night.....Bently flatters to decieve, JJ just doesn't cut it when we need invention and Bale and Hutton are not defenders.
We are like the three little pigs, sometimes we have our house made of stone and no-one can blow it down and sometimes it's made of straw and Fergie just puffs us away.
Still, Everton at the weekend will be different. Lennon on the correct wing, Thud (or Modders) back in the middle, real full backs and JD playing with someone who tries to get the ball to him up front.
We played like it was a reserves game and we really, really didn't want to get injured. I guess at least that's a positive (ie no one getting injured). Still I expect more urgency and desire from our players, especially those on our bench like Bentley, Jenas, Hutton, Keane nowadays etc. They are supposed to be trying to play their way into the starting 11 ffs, not try to sleepwalk through a practice match. Bale actually seemed to give half a sh*t despite inexperienced defending, so I excuse him. He needs some more game time with BAE off to the ACN.
Palacios's form is getting really worrisome. It's amazing that we're somehow in third with his form decidedly sloppy compared to last season, but that says more about Pool/Villa/City's mediocrity than anything else. I'd say give him a rest for now unless he recovers his form soon, probably he is both physically and mentally fatigued after his brother's death. Luckily it seems like we really are going to get Sandro in Jan, which should provide some cover and competition.
I don't think we can single out anyone though for this game in particular, it was just a very mediocre team performance where no one showed much desire to win. Probably O'hara would've been most useful in this game than anyone else, though I reckon any of our kids (that aren't out on loan, like Rose and Gio) would at least TRY to impress. The likes of Bentley probably consider it beneath them.
Bring on Everton. I expect a MUCH more committed performance.
There is something definately up with Wilson which is effecting his game. He's been at 80% since the loss of his brother. There is definately other issue which r effecting his game. Jenas is on contract til 2013. Who the hell in in their right mind is gonna buy that out. 4/5 five goals a season and as many assists in as many years is bottom of the league stuff. Souness bit our hand off when we offered £7m for him. I'd have preffered we kept Mendes and moved on Jenas to Portsmouth.
Spooky, I couldnt agree more. Spot on. Also the comments above about Defoe being greedy are likewise correct. Last night and at Villa he showed the form that made Ramos sell him in the first place, and reasons why he will never be good enough for the likes of Barca, or indeed current top 4. In tight games against class opposition, he makes the wrong decisions when it matters - its that simple. The irony, given our spending, is that we are strong everywhere except where it truly matters.....in centre-mid and upfront. Keane is struggling (witness lack of belief with that chance on his right foot in first half...he always wants an extra touch or turn), Crouch was never good enough in the first place and Defoe is just an enigma, up and down. Poor Wilson has struggled since his family tragedy, lets hope he comes good again and finds a level that allows Modric to play in front of him, as JJ and Hud will destroy crap teams but cannot dictate against decent ones. Much more of this bollocks and holding onto Lennon might prove to be our biggest single objective left for this season..... I was humiliated last night and reminiscent of that hallowed week 20yrs ago when we won twice in OT in a wk. Beginning to believe it will never happen again in my life time.
Disappointing but you're totally right Spooky, we deserved to be kicked out of the Cup.
Do you think the players should refund us who went to Manchester ?