Weekend round-up
Monday, November 16, 2009 at 11:22AM Morning.
It's a Monday tradition to run through the 'news' items of the past few days but as we were blessed with International break weekend there's little point in dissecting any of the alleged transfer stories covered by the tabloids. As per usual, there is nothing worthwhile to report on. Once again, we were subjected to another Huntelaar rejection. Diego Capel is a target (yes, we've been here before). And Sandro also got a mention with him apparently interested in a move to N17. It's like I'm quantum leaping into the same moment in time over and over again with no means of escape. Oh boy.
Elsewhere, the doom and gloom relating to Carlo Cudicni's accident and subsequent injuries have proven (it would seem) to be exaggerated. What a shocker. If it wasn't bad enough he broke his wrists and shattered his pelvis, the papers went to town over contract clauses and retirement. Moddle's comeback has hit a 'snag' according to the NOTW. I've not read the NOTW for almost a year so not sure what this snag is. And tbh, considering he's been out for an age, another 2 weeks or so is no major bugbear. We don't want the lickle man rushed back.
Exciting stuff. Talking of which...
Did you manage to catch the England v Brazil game? I spent it multi-tasking rather than glued to my seat. Proved to be the waste of time many predicted it would be. I know that come WC I'll be as patriotic as the next man, but I'm slowly becoming a little disillusioned with the whole set-up. Not too bad on Saturday in that the usual detestable suspects (Terry, Lampard, Rio etc) were all missing but their replacements were not exactly eye-catching. Just damp and wet much like our miserable weekend of rain.
There were some relevant footnotes for Spurs fans, if you managed to stay awake long enough to notice. Rejoice.
John Bostock scored a debut brace for League One's Brentford against Millwall. Wasn't that long ago John was turning out for Crystal Palace in the Championship. The cynical amongst you might cite he has gone backwards since leaving. Arguably, any player moving up a tier and training with internationals and within facilities that eclipse anything he's ever had available to him, would unquestionable NOT be a step backwards. John was out injured during the summer and going out on loan (be it a division lower than where he came from) does not mean his development is being stagnated. He needs competitive football. And he'll get it at Brentford thanks to our non-entry into this years reserve league.
However, the club has a duty to the lad and the fans to introduce him to first team football in the next year or so. Otherwise the questions will be asked again about our youth signings and the way they are (mis)managed. John is still a kid, but either he's more than decent and if he is then it would be nice to see him given a go. However, I tend to question the validity of sending out so many of our youngsters on loan, basically because it sometimes feels more like shop-window than evolution. Or admittance that they are not half as good as we wish them to be (I think in John's case, he's very good - but still relatively young and there's no need to rush his progress into the starting eleven).
Talking of which…Danny Rose scored the only goal for the England U21's at Wembley against Portugal. This is a lad 'promoted' from the U19's into the U21 squad and one we should be keeping an eye on in the next couple of seasons. Recently recalled from loan so perhaps we may see him figure earlier than expected. Or perhaps not. Personally, I cant comment because I've not seen enough of him. Some say he's a prospect. Pace and skill, bags of potential. Other suggest he is erratic and shows no signs of making it to a decent Prem standard. Terribly over-rated apparently, which is a tag used more often than not when we see yet another young hopeful disappear from our radars forever.
The last 'next big thing' we had (other than Tommy's gut) was Terry Dixon. Remember the hype? Remember the injuries? He's now at West Ham having practically retired when he was released by Spurs.
Finally, Wilson Palacios. Apparently considered quitting after the murder of his brother earlier this year. Although he has his brother in mind at all times and says he uses his memory as an inspiration, it's quite obviously no coincidence that his form has dipped a few levels this season. Wilson is a rare breed, a complete gentleman. Honest, modest and respectful. Hopefully he'll re-discover his form soon.
Reader Comments (59)
Boring week in the world of Football, why we bother with these friendlies I have no idea. Also shows the poor state we are in with regards to our strength in depth, when players like Glen johnson can cry off playing against BRAZIL a there is no threat to his position in the team. Wilson has been fantastic this year agan, yes he has looked a little rough round the edges, but I think this is due to Harry playing our Best centre midfielder on the left side. When he is in the centre he is immense, dispite the fact the he has to do 2 peoples running when next to the lumering idiot we call the hudd
Wilson's form has surely been affected by frequently flying back to Honduras for matches, plus playing in unfamiliar formations that dont suit his attributes and the team generally looking off colour in Modric's absence. We either have a great master plan going on by loaning our prospects out to gain experience, playing time and confidence (in the same way as Rednose loanded a young Beckham to Preston) or we simply dont really know what to do with these players who are going to stagnate on the bench but arent really ready for first team action. Time will tell.
How did Huddlestone and Jenas fair in the game? I didn't watch it. Which leaves me feeling blessed.
How did Huddlestone and Jenas fair in the game?
Jenas was about as crap as anyone else out there. Had to turn it off, did Huddlestone play? Brazil were sleep-walking. I hope things improve come WC time but for now I'm really starting to wonder if international football isn't utterly pointless. Too many players fearful of getting an injury to sideline them from the real money show.
Awful game wasn't it? Bored me to tears much like most of these friendly matches do. International football has been playing second fiddle to club football for years. The WC finals is when players decide to go for it, more so for ego than country.
Bostock is a class act but where do you make room for a 17 year in our current 1st team set up? We don't seem to allow kids the opportunity and when we do its at the wrong time which ends in tears for the poor sod in question. Plenty of lads out on loan all impressing but we will never know their true worth until Harry has them coming off the bench and learning their trade IN the Prem rather than outside. Townsend is another player to keep an eye on. I agree with the people who suggest Rose is no Lennon.
Spooks - I saw that story from the NOTW during the week. It was one of those stories that was clearly written at least 2 weeks ago as it said that Modders would have the 2 weeks from the international break to improve further. It even had an old date on it. I'm hoping that we see him for the Wigan game, along with Lennon.
Bit like the theme of your article, and like the saying goes 'it's like deja vu - all over again!'.
After watching Aaron Ramsey pretty much single-handedly destroy Scotland at the weekend, you do have to wonder about our youth development. Like Bostock, Ramsey was playing regularly in the Championship before selling his soul to those wankers down the road...
You almost ruined Routledge, you'll ruin Bostock and you wont get the chance to ruin Moses.
Phazer - that's my concern. Our kids are forever loaned out or playing academy/reserve football and hardly ever break into the first team. I know that the 'new generation' are still 17/18 years of age but its time we see them make the step up. Having brand new facilities and money invested yet still go out and spend £15M on the latest player of the week is pretty much scandalous. We have some youth made in Tottenham but the ones we pluck out of the lower leagues don't ever seem to make the grade. Other than Azza (in recent years).
I'm going to make a predication and say only 2 or 3 of the youth we have at the club and loaned out will make it but that's not to say they will make it at Spurs. And by make it I mean play pro football at championship or mid-table standard.
Sorry. Blame my lack of optimism on the historic facts.
Sgt Wilson's form has only dropped since Jenas has been back in the team. First four wins of the season saw Thudd and Sarge in the middle combining brilliantly. If one flew forwards the other dropped back to defend, they passed between each other brilliantly and developed a real understanding.
With JJ back in the team the other two don't appear to know where to go and who to cover, JJ runs up and down all day long but appears to restrict the abilities of Sarge and Thudd
I knew the Hudd love-in would never survive over the course of 15 games.
You know at the end of the day the club is poorly managed from a busness perspective. How much was invested in Pav, Bent, and Bentley? Yet not one of them was given a real run in the side. All will likely be sold at a loss and it does not take an accountant to see the waste involved in that. The trouble is the squad is too big and people are brought in without thought. Take the strikers.We only need 3 top class strikers and let a youngster be tagged as the 4th. The same could be said for the two left sided players, the two centre backs, etc. We have some talented youth but they will not get the chance under the current philosophy.
For all the recent pro-Levy pats on back I agree with Davids assessment. we flatter to deceive. Might make a turnover that keeps the books out of the red but the money is usually wasted on the likes of a Bent or Bentley or Pav. We do not spend our money wisely when it crosses over from the business side to the footballing side and I mean footballing side to do with players bought and sold. Levy has entrusted the wrong people in the past. No major fuck ups since Harry signed other than perhaps resigning Chimbonda.
Arsenal are successful at bringing through youth players because they adopt the same system and approach to the game on all levels at the club. Any 17 year old breaking into the first team knows exactly what is expected of him. It's one of the luxuries of having the same manager at the helm for so long whereas we've had so many changes of manager and system (DOF anyone?) that we have no sense of continuity.
Lennon seems to be the exception to the rule. Didn't Redknapp make a point of suggesting that he hadn't received any proper coaching as a winger? On a positive note he can surely only get better and better.
Totally agree with jerseyyid on the midfield conundrum. We were destroying teams with Hudd and Wilson in the middle. Okay, we've suffered from losing Lennon and Modric but it worked pretty well against Everton in the cup when rather than changing the system to try and squeeze in our 'best' players Redknapp simply replaced the wide men.
Terry Dixon, bless his heart. Doctors told him to retire. We released him because he had no chance of ever making it on a professional level. Then a year later, he signs a contract with West Ham.
Terry Dixon, bless his heart. Doctors told him to retire. We released him because he had no chance of ever making it on a professional level. Then a year later, he signs a contract with West Ham.
Nov 16, 2009 at 1:51 PM | Grim down south
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So basically he's still nowhere near making it on a professional level.
'We have some talented youth but they will not get the chance under the current philosophy.'
I'm not sure Redknapp knows too much about philosophy, it's more a case of 'if your face fits' with him.
to remain 4th with the dip in form from certain players plus the reshuffle etc is good really.....
like to see capel and lennon sorting the wings out.....in jan for the run in .....
modric may need a couple of games to feel his confidence is back etc
as far as England are concerned all the top epl teams have about 24 english players in total .......
something has to be done to get all the academys in line with emerging talent etc......
as the pool is looking less.......
Fear not Spooky,as the News of the Worlds article was a reprint from the thirty first of October,all is well,
Sorry, I missed Hoopspurs comment.
any one happen to see the russia game. hate to say it after his comments but pav looked good, down right threatening at times. He had and assist and was rather unlucky not to score.
id be watchful to see how he does on wednesday, if he plays like that again i would give him a start on sat. the worst thing it can do is up the fee we get for him.
Spooky,
Congrats on the 360football award nominations - http://www.360football.co.uk/AwardNomination.aspx
Keep up the good work!!
COYS
Cheltenhamboy
Pav is a class finisher but needs a real technically gifted mid-fielder to play with him. Modric would fit the bill and there are a couple of youngters not including Taarbat and Dos Santos who could do it as well. What we have at the momen is the hopeful boot up the field for Crouch. Basically Crouch is a strategic alternative when all else fails. I find it hard to see him as a starting striker as he basically makes the attack one-dimensional.
How are those blog nominations done then? Was there a nomination process?
@The Machine - I Haven't a clue, only found out about them as Teh Trunk posted on his facebook profile that he had been nominated so i took a look and spotted our very own Spooky listed under a couple of catagories.
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Some of those nominations seem weak to me. Truck is bound to win which is dandy in my book, but Harry Hotspur? Give over. He's twaddle.
Terry Dixon scored in a reserve outing a few weeks back and got over an hour yesterday against Norwich. Fair play to the boy as just to be playing at that level - against all medical advice - is an incredible achievement and shows his dedication to the game. He is now at a club who actually has a scooby about developing and producing their own young talent rather than hopelessly pinching everybody elses. He will be nurtured in the correct manner, without the pathetic expectation brought out of nothing more than ignorance he would of been subjected to at White Hart Lane should he still have been there.
As for the England game, it enhanced a few popular opinions - the main one being Jenas is not even good enough for Tottenham, let alone his country.
Dixon wasn't actually much hyped by Spurs fans at the time. First many had heard about him was when he was selected for an Eire training session with the first team squad. He got injured (seriously) twice so not sure where you're picking up on the much hyped nonsense. Also, specialists - that's third party - told Dixon to retire. Not sure the club can be blamed for letting him go because it was an agreed decision by all parties. But I'm more than chuffed to see him prove everybody wrong. It's a fantastic story. Not sure he'll be anywhere near the player he was touted to be. I'd say this, at the time, he looked the part and there was a feeling by people within the club he'd progress into the first team. Unbelievable bad luck with the injuries.
As for West Ham - you're a fan right? - you develop the kids because you don't have money to spunk and not every kid that makes it into your first team is some kind of superstar. The harsh reality is you have to promote them because you've only got jellied eels in the money pot.
You sound like a good lad for your Jenas comment.
We have a habit of over-rating our players because of the coverage the official site gives the academy. Jackson, Marney and one or two others who broke into the first team only did so because of the lack of quality there already and soon got shown up for being less than Prem standard.
Have to say (having seen academy games and reserve games from last season) we have a far better crop of kids coming through. Can't say many fans are hyping them up other than hoping they get their chances. Players like Bostock and Parrett for example. My issue is how these players get their chance. Harry gave the West Ham players of the time a go in the first place (although he gets credit for playing them he wasn't involved in their pre-schooling prior to their debuts). Hopefully he's working close with Inglethorpe and we'll get to see some promotions come next season. Most of the lads out on loan will not make it back. The younger generation of players who have made a name for themselves in recent seasons are still 16/17 years of age and younger so sit tight for their progress.
Dixon is not even 3/4 of the player he once was let alone anywhere near being the player he potentially could be. WH have the time to look after the kid because they've not got too much else in the way of anything, other than selling their assets and pretending that the kids that do make it are somehow amazing compared to other youth players. They cannot be compared to Arsenal or Utd or even City.
@ Jep - You say Dixon was not hyped by Spurs fans and then two replies later we have Dazza saying he is not a quarter of the player he was while with Tottenham despite there being a very good chance that he, nor you ever saw him in action.
Your second point is a little silly. Just because you have "money to spunk", you disregard the millions of pounds you plough into the youth system and waste it frivolously on overrated players or those you don't need. That does not sound like a particularly clever or wise business model to me. It does not matter if "every kid is not a superstar." If they come through and become squad players that is more than enough to point to the academy being a success. We brought Mark Noble through. You paid £8 mill for Jenas. We brought James Tomkins through. You paid £8 mill for Bassong. We brought Jack Collison through. You spent £15 mill on David Bentley. None of those players are superstars either yet cost you in excess of £30 mill, have no affiliation to the club and are sitting on £30k plus a week. Jellied eels in the money pot or not, I know which I'd rather have.
@ Tonk - To suggest Spurs fan overrate players because of an official website is ridiculous. I can't believe people actually bother to read these propaganda machines. They were hardly going to come out and say Johnnie Jackson was shit were they.
@ dazza - Four West Ham youth products play integral parts in arguably two of the best teams in world football. Glen Johnson, Rio Ferdinand, Michael Carrick, Frank Lampard, Joe Cole and Jermain Defoe are 6 West Ham youth products who will most likely be going to the World Cup with England. Please let me know, in both instances, whether Manchester United, Arsenal or Man City will be able to proclaim the same from their respective academies.
The reason that you can bring players through is that young lads are more likey to sign for a smaller club as they have a far better chance of making it into the first team, and then leaving in order to improve onto the next level - which is what all of the players you mentioned had to do. Nobody is going to argue against your youth dev.
As for Dixon he was a superb prospect, but let's say he had one or two issues with temperament. Very much head and shoulders above other youngsters of his age and although he's back in football I would be shocked to see him reach the original potential he showed.
If that is the case The Machine, it begs the question why Arsenal have arguably the best transfer of youngsters into their first team in the Premier League. They are not a small club. Nor are Man Utd who produced that wonderful batch of footballers a decade or so ago. It also begs the question why your own club is able to sign so many young players if they have a much better chance of progressing at a smaller club elsewhere.
It's funny as you're theory is in direct conflict with that of dazza's yet you're both wrong.
Arsenal tend to sign them, West Ham tend to bring them up via the youth academy.
I can hardly remember most at the Lane talking about Dixon other than in passing because nobody had actually seen him play. The likes of Jackson and co were over-rated rather than hyped. I guess because we don't see youngsters make it as often as we'd like to see. They make it into the first team and its carnival time. Then 5 months later we're begging for the club to sell them.
We've got a good set up, we just haven't produced any decent academy players and the players we've signed in the past 3/4 years are hardly old enough to break into the first team which is why the reserve team was scrapped and the 'kids' edging towards 18/19 are out on loan - with the rest still in youth football development. We have the best set up we've ever had so if we dont start producing results in the next 3 season I'll be disappointed.
Cant say any of WH's recent finds are at the same level as the group from several years back. And as for Dixon, its one of those rare moments in football that he has managed to come back from oblivion and I applaud him for his determination. Just dont think the lad will avoid picking up another knock.
"We've got a good set up, we just haven't produced any decent academy players"
LMFAO.
I'm talking about the past 2/3 seasons , troll.
Hold up, do Arsenal actually produce any of their own yoof players ?
Yes Kebab, they do. They just tend to disappear after they've turned 22.
LMFAO.
West Ham, proud to produce youth that never win anything for the club because they're sold onto other clubs that do win things and in the mean time the money they've pockets is wasted by one incompetent chairman after another, but it's okay because they gave the world Frank Lampard and Michael Carrick. Magic.
@ Tonk - To suggest Spurs fan overrate players because of an official website is ridiculous. I can't believe people actually bother to read these propaganda machines. They were hardly going to come out and say Johnnie Jackson was shit were they.
What Im saying is that people become aware of some of the youth players from the main site and assume they must be decent because of the reports and coverage of their exploits for the academy and U19/U17s. Some of the recent crop who are still way too young to be loaned out or break into the reserves are looking bright but I'm not about to gloat about it. The likes of Jackson flattered to deceive and believe me, it wasn't long before we all knew he along with one or two others was average at best.
Spurs are finally getting it right at the youth level but theres no way of knowing just how well. My biggest concern is that final step of development necessary to become a first teamer. It's not that we botch it up, its the fact that we've struggled to develop anyone good enough. Like I keep saying its what happens with the current generation. One or two at the very least (academy wise) and two of the signed youth players is a minimum.
(Olive branch), apart from Spence, who else are you (Hammers) looking to promote in the next couple of seasons?
If ammers fans aren't banging on about 66 they're banging on about the 7 or so players they've produced. Talk about desperation.
"Hold up, do Arsenal actually produce any of their own yoof players ?"
You should know mate. Seem to recall your lot spending £15m on one of em. ROFLMAO.
And don't forget Jamie O'Hara and Anton Blackwood. All moved up a level.
In conclusion, rather be a yid than a cheating scum gooner.
I like how the scummer adds text talk to the end of his posts in order to cement his statement in self reassurance. Ah bless.
GFYSGS