We all need to make sacrifices (part II)
Monday, September 10, 2012 at 10:00PM I’ve always believed that a football club chooses you. A club will suck you in and its traditions will slowly mould you into a supporter with traits and characteristics that are synonymous with it, forming part of the majority tribe. Even if you think its you doing the choosing because it's your local club or you like the badge or a player or you were mesmerised by a group of lads singing songs in the street - it's all part of the seduction process that emanates and then entices you in.
But even though, say one set of fans associated with one particular club are known for a collective trait (noisy, quiet, fickle, dreamers, deluded and so on) the experience of the individual still remains unique to that person. Obviously. Only you are you. You support and love your football club as you see fit and although it’s a tribal event every weekend there are no rules and regulations governing how you choose to follow them. Yes, okay, there are in terms of behaviour at games but I’m referring to how you follow from the heart and in the mind. That can never be policed. That should never be policed.
So, from one supporter to the next, their love for Spurs can be unequivocal and yet their opinions and the manner of how they conduct themselves with displays of passion, anger, thought-provoking conversations and analysis can be at complete odds with each other. Individually, it has no impact (one man’s voice on a blog has no far reaching influence) but football is tribal and by virtue of always having two sides it means that the individual will gravitate towards other individuals that think the same way. Hence the splintering of the fanbase and the arguments surrounding the right and wrong way to ‘support’.
Strip it all away, at its purest level, we support Tottenham Hotspur. But to do that we have to support the players in the shirt and the coach on the touchline. Just how you define said support if you are at odds with what is going on falls back to perception as an individual and how big the group of individuals are that agree their way is the right way. Just turning up to sing your heart out no matter the adversity at hand is, in this consumer obsessed generation where experts and pundits tell us what we should be thinking, not an option. You can't be involved and ignore all the politics at hand. Even if you want to you still end up talking about them. Where there is a want, a desire for success, when there is something at stake...the pressures are hard hitting and can weigh you down. Make you uneasy, nervous.
The below quote was posted by a regular reader to the blog (Ronnie), directed at me (not in an argumentative way), in the comments section of another article that involved disagreements on how ‘supporters’ should react and support when the team are not performing.
We are both pro Spurs and pro AVB.
We just happen to have differing opinions on fan behaviour in the stadium. I’m for liberty and communication; you’re for censorship and pretence.
Personally, I've taken the stance that there is no reason to panic and the very idea of it can be detrimental and has no foundation in aiding the team and that because of what’s happened (new coach, overhaul of training and tactics, inherited bad form) there should not even be a question of patience discussed – it’s a given that a new era has to work through transition first. What this means is, you appreciate that the team isn’t firing on all cylinders and you sing your heart out and try to inspire the players (even if that means screaming fiery shouts of encouragement with aggressive chest thumping). You react like this because you want change to occur from a winning mentality on the pitch so that the team goes forward and doesn't take a step back. Sitting back and worrying about the worst case scenario isn't going to help. You or the team.
So, in terms of the quote from Ronnie, do I advocate censorship and pretence? The team is not playing great. If you ignore the fine line between three points and one point that we’ve witnessed so far in our two home games you might accuse the other set of supporters that their decision to boo and want change/admit that we are failing was already switched on before the season had even began. That they don’t want to witness more of something they know will not improve and that change is not a step back, it’s saving us from making that step back. Arguably, these people are realists (pessimists to others) and are not easily blinded by the beating of the drum and fanciful dreams.
But what if you’re a supporter that wants the coach and team to improve and progress but still want to show your dissatisfaction and vocalise your honest reaction to what is playing out before you (like Ronnie)? Does showing your disdain for performance by matching those that are equally unhappy but are baying for blood actually work? Is there a way of classifying vocally what your despondency means when screaming it out from the stands? How can you differentiate between the two? You can't but then you shouldn't place your hand over your mouth if you feel that strongly about it. The issue here is that you can't tell the difference unless you're standing next to them and listening to their complaints. Some are constructive and are based on wanting to see improvement, others are unforgiving and have had enough and don't want to waste time on waiting.
Liberty? I see that. I more or less described it just now. You are Tottenham Hotspur and if you’re unhappy you’re not going to hold back. Love can make you do crazy things. Take the good with the bad but in equal measures when reacting to them. Loud when we win, loud when we don't. The split is on the latter and the ilk of loud that's made.
Communicating? So leading on from liberty - you are doing just that by making it heard that you’re not pleased and as an individual this freedom of expression spreads to others who feel the same way you do, validating the rebellion (or is it freedom fighting?). Defiant singing is the other argument. Sing regardless, can't smile without you, because it's Tottenham. If its aimed at the team, the coach...what would they react best to? Again, we're back to agreeing to disagree on what warrants a reaction to be one of booing or one of song.
So what of me and other like minded individuals that want to be loud in voice with song? Are we not embracing liberty and communication by deciding that singing and attempting to inspire is a more positive approach to the fatalistic one in direct conflict to us? Am I side-stepping the truth and dressing myself up in pretence and denial? How can I possibly know the future? Even if I retain pragmatism close to home am I still wired up blindly not to see things as ‘crisis’ and ‘turmoil’? Am I avoiding the inevitable? Are they perhaps not fatalistic but simply more robust to the truth?
concluded in part III
Reader Comments (54)
What a load of nazel-gazing drivel
It's the footie mate, not a fucking parenthesis
It's whatever you want it to be.
Nazel-gazing = drivel ?
by the looks of it, Mr. chips hasnt quite understood the theme of the article.
You can sing what you like as long as it doesn't have the Y word in it
And yes I did consider banning that word and the drum a higher priority than top quality signings
Thanks Dan. You're the man.
Can we all group hug, change the subject and agree to disagree?
Jesus, I thought you c*nts lived in a "free" country ...
:)
That was a pretty brilliant piece ah work there dude. Thanks.
I'm really beginning to question who was actually at the Norwich game. The 'booing' was brief and half hearted, I'd even go as far to say a mix of boos, groans and sighs.
Annoyingly we haven't really got any fixtures coming up to get the crowd going. The atmosphere is always flat against the poorer teams and unless we win by 4 the crowd aren't really singing. Away matches are a different matter...
We all love The Spurs !
Yes, - we all have the full right to react on events concerning Spurs in whichever way we the fans think right !
We can boo, - we can sing...
Levy can hire a Coach Levy can sack a Coach !
Spooky, - In my humble opinion it IS all about patience, - if we as fans, do not have the patience to see a new project evolve and at least give AVB, or for that matter any other new coach appointed, the time to employ his way of playing, - then I am afraid that we as a club will continue firing/hiring coaches, - and this for me is not the path to Glory !
Love The Shirt !
Always back the team but a hearty 'you dunno what you're doing' aimed at the clueless muppet in the raincoat is justified if the
football is defensive and boring, you aren't winning and the players look as bored as the fans in the stadium!! Right?
I am happy with the squad, the signings look decent but the manager looks out of his depth managing in England, he lacks experience and has next to no man management skills... Call it cultural, call it what you want but Ramos had a great reputation before he came to us, as did Gross and he even went on to do well with Basle in the years after Spurs but managing in certain cultures, especially here, is not for everyone.
Also, why AVB has this huge amount of reputation when it has only ever been in one country and when he's only 34 is totally beyond me. Those that were so keen to see Harry out had been warned about what to wish for, what we have all ended up with is a manager that will not last beyond January! I hope i'm wrong but i cannot see any other outcome from this terrible appointment.
As long as the team plays like it has at home so far this season, expect the booing to increase. This is an affront to the traditions of the club and the way we like to see the game played, what else do you expect? Just remember to boo the manager, not the players and then just maybe, Levy will kick this irritating little clown out of our beloved club...
I cannot stand his convoluted explanations of the most mundane things and his deep voice and his arrogance. Maybe it's a front by a young man out of his depth, who knows. All i know is, i don't want him as our manager unless we start winning matches quickly and in style!! BOOOOOO!!!!
wottaloadovoldshit im joking i dont think people are booing avb. we had a player who could find a pass, hold on to the ball,usettle a midfield while deciding the best ball to play ....... now we have livermore and sandro who havnt got half a brain together and parkers even worse booooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Our society is based on instant gratification, and soccer is no different. We buy a player and he supposed to be an instant success, and any youngster must know his trade before he is given a run of games to learn it. Maybe we should look at the supporters of some of the lower league clubs who stand every Saturday in shabby surroundings to support their team with the threat of relegation each season. It is about being a true supporter win or lose. My kid once played for an ice hockey team which lost the first seventeen games but they finally got a draw in the eighteenth and final game of the season. We parents who supported and cheered felt proud that we had stood by them all season and the final game gave us a reason to party like no tomorrow. That is what being a real supporter is all about you stand strong and cheer your team on, not boo or denigrate them. Most Spurs supporters are like that --the rest should move on and go support the latest flavour of the month.
kids dont get paid 30000+ a week
agh... yes Liberty and communication very interesting. Liberty as in Freedom? Personal like personal liberty to do ... anything I like sounds good! Doesn't it Till the bigger guy come at you with a bigger fist knife gun or dare i say it COCK!
there is no such thing as persoanl liberty that safegaurds the personal. Liberty like Freedon has to be communial / community based or mabe tribal / team based, I do not knoof any sport where castigating the players /participants during the game has led to sustained winners. Strangely thoughi have heard of togetherness doing so. And yes singing you don't kw what your doing can achieve 'positive results but there is a world maybe even a galaxy of difference between "YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOUR DOING..." TO BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
So please communicate your frustrations in a way that the rest of the tribe cna enjoy and even enjoin. still better just bring up the siege mentality of "OH WHEN THE SPURSSSSS, GO MARCHING IN, OH WHEN THE SPURS GO MARCHING IN I WANNA BE IN THAT NUMBER WHEN THE SPURS GO MARCHING IN!"
The most staunch defenders of AVB so far seem to be the ones keenest for Redknapp to leave pre-slump. Whenever a point gets raised about AVB all they have is the Harry stuff to throw back, not constructive debate about the actual incumbent. There are a lot of people who are so desperate to be proven right by wanting Harry out that they simply won't criticise AVB for anything.
Bad transfer window? Redknapp's fault. Wheeler dealer. No ambition in the transfer market. Small club mentality.
Bad transfer window? Not AVB's fault. Levy's fault. Hasn't backed AVB, feel sorry for him.
When a comparison is made, it's always the slump. Never the 12/13 game winning run. You never hear them say they expect top 4/5th from AVB, positions we have had from 5 of the last 7 seasons.
No blame attached for his belief that Adebayor, Defoe and Kane (now the last-minute Dempsey) are ample up front. We play one out-and-out striker ffs, if Ade gets injured then what? Defoe again? One of the four keepers?
His handling of Dawson has been poor. Telling the public he'll be starting the season as captain then looking to ditch him (and keeping Gallas). He needs players like Dawson right now. The most worrying part is that AVB said that if Dawson left we'd be ok for cover at CB! Kaboul, injury-prone old Gallas, an untested Belgian and a rookie with one top-flight campaign under his belt.
His perseverance with Livermore, despite it being obvious that he is a squad player at best. Definitely not a starter with Sandro. Huddlestone largely accepted as being unfit so unavailable for AVB to pick. Well he has been training since the tail end of last season so he's had 3months to get match-fit. He hardly got any game time pre-season, AVB preferring Livermore and JJ. Imagine if we'd let him go to Stoke? You can't just have one option in CM who can play, you need at least a couple.
I'm sure there will be people that have jumped to the conclusion that I wanted Harry to stay.....I didn't, I wanted a new man to push us in. However, the choice wasn't Harry or AVB, it was Harry or lots of choices of manager.
I think we have made the wrong appointment - I thought he was petulant and brattish at Chelsea.
Although I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt when we appointed him (and chose to take the view it was the Chelsea clique who were solely to blame) my gut feeling has slapped me back to reality. Warning signs pre-season, then two of the most dull and turgid displays I have seen since Ramos. The worst first two home games a new manager has had since I can remember.
I'm very very worried. I'd love him to succeed, puck Redknapp, but I can only see this ending up in tears
I will support always and wouldnt think of booing ever ! but i agree with Park Lane in a nutshell we have picked the wrong man
i so hope im wrong on this .I think he wasnt close to being first choice at the start but other managers were getting taken by the time Harry went ,Rodgers might have a nightmare at Liverpool but Spurs would have been the perfect fit his style of football and some money to spend .I must reiterate again i so want A.V.B to be a success and still has areal chance of doing it i can take maybe coming 7th as long as there is continued progress and we start playing Spurs type football .One thing i have noticed already is his lack of personallity he is bland to say the least and has made bad decisions on and off the pitch ,,the subs used in the West Brom game panick panick etc ,he even tried to make a 4th sub before getting told he had made them all ,,another was playing Hudd against Norwich when 2 weeks ago he was going out on loan to get game time as was so unfit .Off the pitch i would highlight after the Norwich game saying the players confidence was hit after the West Brom game ,,what after game 2 fucking hell ! then there is the Llrios talk coming out saying Brad is No 1 .These are all school boy errors which can be avoided and i thought would be when Harry left ,this has nothing to do with systems or players .I hope it all sorts its self out so i can really enjoy watching Spurs games and be so happy after instead of being a miserable cunt as some of my friends have said lately on a Saturday night :). COYS lets destroy Reading pls ,,,or fuck 1-0 is fine :).
Keep up the excellent writing Spooky and sorry about the rant ,to much coffee .
"I’ve always believed that a football club chooses you."
This statement could not be truer for me. I was actually an Inter Milan fan (granted, for a very short period), then one day I watched a Spurs match and it all changed. The fans, the Lane, the shirt... I was in love.
I wanted Moyes, I still want Moyes, but the guy foisted on us by Levy has got to be given a chance.
1 league cup in 11 years Levy should be the target of the Booo's if you got to do it.
"then two of the most dull and turgid displays I have seen since Ramos."
Did you see any of our last 10 games last season?
Villa and QPR away spring to mind. Or Stoke and Norwich if you want home games.
Nothing has changed. I'm in no way AVB's biggest fan but I just can't see the logic in blaming him so early on for performances of a team that was already in such (long term) poor form already.
Add to that he's lost the clubs best player who was available for the last incumbent and, due to the way that our chairman does business (rightly or wrongly -that's for another blog spooky!) he's not even had all his signings available to him yet for any game. Yet people want to judge him right now...and I just don't understand that at all.
If we are still struggling at Christmas when he's had time to mould team and get everyone playing in new state
, then I'll be on here with the rest of you raising my concerns. But at 3 games in when the next game is the 1st one he'll have all signings available and the squad will be settled with window shut...I think voicing negativity in the stadium at this early stage is lunacy.
Good blog Spooky
@petehawkins94
I have to agree with Park Lane & EdinburghSpur. There are 6 points up for grabs in the next two games. I we don't get them all I don't know where any more are going to come from. I have heard an interesting rumor from a friend, of a friend, of a friend who got it from the tea lady who works in a cafe frequented by Chelsea players. So I suppose it is highly suspect. But the rumor is quite interesting, apparently AVB is totally immersed in the THEORY and tactics of football. I agree it will all end in tears. Our tears. We will probably drown in a river of our own tears as we hurtle over the waterfall into the Championship. Lets hope we are all wrong. Oh DL what have you done this time?
"There are 6 points up for grabs in the next two games."
You should be an ESPN pundit with facts like that up your sleeve.
"If we don't get them all I don't know where any more are going to come from."
Ummm, how about the 99 points up for grabs in the next thirty three games after that?
@petehawkins94
@Petehawkins94
I agree with you, - The Doom and Gloom by some of the people on here is frankly unbeliavable, - ready to get rid of our Manager 3 games in. Yes we are about to drown in tears, - but not on account of the results, but rather due to ridiculous remarks like that !
@petehawkins94
If we can't beat WBA & Norwich at home, I don't hold out any hope at Reading and against QPR at home. We are 7 points off the pace after 3 games. So when and where will we start winning? I simply ask the question because in our last two home games our best player was the goalkeeper. It it wasn't for him we would have zero points. With the 99 points from the next 33 games, I would like to see that. Your crystal ball is obviously a lot more pro active than mine.
To Allan
Sorry if you don't like the post but you will have to work very, very hard to convince me that DL made the right choice. I have seen and heard nothing about AVB that inspires me with confidence. Tactics are great, but not if they strangle the heart and soul out of the team.
@Kingdom of Sod
Thanks for your feedback: AVB was suddenly not my first choice to take over from Harry, - however AVB is now The Manager of my/our beloved Spurs. I for one, will always give a newly appointed Manager able time to get his tactics across to our players. I truly believe that AVB must be given a full season to do this. It is my hope that Levy would come out and say that AVB will be given a full season to accomplish just that, - come what may. I am fully aware that some people on here are not prepared to be as patient as I and to them I would like to say keep the faith, - we shall overcome !
@Pete Hawkins
Yes, we played badly for a spell of last season, but that has to be balanced against the winning all bar one of the games in that Autumn/Winter spell - we also finished the season strongly, finished 4th and would have snatched 3rd back if the WBA keeper hadn't had a Gomes.
Even so, people were quick to criticise Redknapp for that bad spell and rightly so. It was down to him to pick the team and set them up to beat the opposition. AVB has to be judged by the same criteria - his supposedly higher tactical knowledge was the reason we replaced Harry in the first place.
What I have seen so far is an almost England manager type strategy from AVB - put runners in midfield. Ground-breaking. Don't get caught up in the new manager trap either - both WBA and Norwich have new managers and have both out-thought AVB so far. He made exactly the same mistakes with his subs in both home games with the same result - Sandro hooked instead of Livermore and taking off Defoe when we are one-up and sitting back.
I'd love this fella to succeed but alarm bells are ringing. Based on 3 games? Partly, yes. Partly because he already has form for it at Chelsea too
Kingdom of sod
I agree with you that if we don't improve then we won't pick up more points. To be honest that's another ESPN quality comment. However what I can't understand is why you and others seem to blame AVB for this when in fact we have been playing poorly since February.
I wasn't saying we will win our next 33 games at all (really thought that was obvious) I was merely pointing out that there will still be 99 points to play for after your two 'must win' games coming up. Think its pretty ridiculous of you to suggest that if we don't get 6pts in our next two, then we won't get any.
How long have you been watching football? Every team has good patches and bad patches in EVERY season. I would rather have our bad patch now and then improve as the teams who finish stronger always secure the better league positions. (ars*nal last year).
I get that you're not happy with AVB and you have every right, he hasn't proved himself to us yet. But in my opinion he needs to be given more than a 3 game chance before fans right him off. As I said before he hasn't even had all his signings available to him yet so let's see what happens. You seem to have no concept of the fact that we can or will improve with time to gel!
3 points on Sunday and all will be rosy. COYS!
@petehawkins94
Leaving aside my views about Levy's serially abysmal managerial appointments, the worst part of this shambles is that I hate the style of football that AVB and his supporters are apparently trying to get the team to play. Football should be about explosive strikers, flying wingers, thunderous tackles - excitement for God's sake, and I find the endless possession played by Spain and (Messi apart!) Barcelona about as thrilling as watching porridge congeal, At the moment we've got dull as well as unsuccessful football at WHL, and I can't see a top four finish materialising under AVB, unless it's in the Championship in two years time.
Park Lane
You are right. AVB should be judged by exactly the same criteria as Redknapp....I just don't think a final verdict is required after 3 games that's all. Ridiculous comments (by others not yourself) that we will be in the championship next year are just stupid at this stage in any season.
I get what you are saying about the tactics we've seen from him so far, they have concerned me too. But I'd mitigate that by saying it is very early days, he's finding his feet with the squad and vice versa. He only learnt what his final squad was going to be the day before our last game. Give him time to get everything in order. We have some creative players, many more than England do, so I am not worried about us lacking creativity once we've settled.
Re: the substitutions, I don't think Redknapp made a tactically astute sub in his entire spurs career and he did pretty well so I wouldn't worry it's obviously not critical. A nice to have, maybe AVB will get better at it as he learns the capabilities of the squad, we'll see.
I do understand your concerns about AVB but I think your fear for the perceived wrong direction we are going in is completed clouding your memory of the end of last season. I really can't agree with your assertation that we 'finished last season strongly'. With the best will in the world it's just not true. Last 10 games of last season we were identical to 1st 3 games of this season. We were dominant in parts, flat creativity wise, on the whole underwhelming and all games could have gone either way. We happened to get a couple of wins in the last 3 games but you and I both know our performances have been of concern since Feburary.
I know you are right when you say that has to be balanced with the amazing run we went on earlier in the season...but my point is, at 3 games in, how does anyone know we won't do that later in the season? They don't. And I dont know for sure that we will. But with my support instead of unneccessary early-season degradation, I hope they will have a better chance of doing so.
COYS!!
@petehawkins94
I can't believe you actually did this Spooky.
I remember watching the Spurs vs. Man U game last season at a pub somewhere far away from WHL. I was the only Spurs fan surrounded by moronic glory hunters in Man United replicas. I sat alone and as the game started I clapped a bit...murmured a "Come on You Spurs" that was unfortunately a bit audible to the morons (It didn't help that I was also wearing a Spurs training jacket)...I was exposed.
We started the game pretty well and I thought there was a chance we would finally end the embarrassing Man U hoodoo. But after a while it was apparent for everyone to see that the hapless Saha just wasn't going to score. Defoe was on the bench. Man U poached a goal before the break and Ashley Young scored against the run of play after the break and I thought, naturally, our Manager would realize that his friendly gesture at Saha was costing us valuable points. But Harry Redknapp just sat there with a glum look on his face (Obviously choosing the best words for the post match interview to explain just how wonderful a team United are and how much respect he has for Sir Fergie). That is when I started getting irritated. It didn't help that the posers were aiming sarcastic comments towards me and claiming Spurs will never win agains "their" team in my lifetime!
It started with a simple "bring on Defoe YOU MORON!". Before I knew it, I was pacing the pub exchanging words with the Man U guys explaining to them that "we have the better team and that if it wasn't for our pathetic manager we would easily defeat them". They scored a third goal. Mobbed me and cheered in my face. I walked out (first time I've ever not watched a Spurs game to its conclusion) and walked home cursing Redknapp. I learnt later that Defoe was brought on in the dying moments of the game and...he scored!
I remember the rage that I had inside me....If I was at the Lane on that day. I would have booed Redknapp uncontrollably. Not because I don't love Spurs as much as the guy cheering and clapping after we conceded the third, but because of how obvious it was that a change was required for us to do well....and Redknapp's reluctance to do the right thing. It may have been uncontructive...but I don't think I would have been able to control myself.
My goodness! I really used to "not like" that Redknapp!
My point. Fans experience the game from different perspectives. After a week of fighting off comments from Chelsea workmates about how "we have made a mistake appointing AVB and how we are now doomed to be relegated", a fan might be slightly more emotive that the casual observer who doesn't have to face said Chelsea scum in the office the next Monday. His reaction to a display similar to the Norwich game will obviously be quite vocal. If he gets overwhelmed by the disappointing performance and tactics and boos to express his dissatisfaction at half-time, that doesn't make him less of a "true fan" does it?
The calls for fans who voice their dissatisfaction to "f*ck off and go support arse*nal" are actually what made me refer to your approach as censorship. "Pretense" is that I should clap and sing for Redknapp (at the Man U) game while, clearly, all I wanted to do at that moment was to smack his wobbly cheeks as hard as I could.
That said....Come on you AVB!
Keep it up DML.
I hope this answers the comments by Allan and Petehawkins94.
I remember the dark year of 1977. We came back up in 78 by finishing 3rd in the old Div II. I don't think we lost any players when we went down.
Today things are not so easy. The PL is cut throat at its benign best. If we go down we won't come straight back up. We lose our best players, because we can't afford to pay them. We can't bring in top class players for the same reason. I like Allan's loyalty to AVB but if we are trawling the depths of the PL at Xmas can we afford to run the risk of relegation, by keeping him? If we are in the top third, and depending on the way we are playing, then keep him. If DL loosens the purse string next season we may be in with a chance. I note Petehawkins94 thinks I am obsessed with points. I am. If we are not well placed at the next transfer window, is it likely that a top class player would want to join us? I don't think so. I think it is well known around European football that AVB has a certain amount of history. Depending on the tittle tattle doing the rounds will determine who comes in in January.
The main problem is, as I see it, we don't have a full season to plan and implement new tactics. We only have half a season. By Xmas we will all know what is, and what's not working. And if it's not working what do we do? I notice that Cheshuntboy has the same concerns as I do. I don't like the way we are playing. Negative and uninspiring football. I am very uneasy about our tactics, if one part of the tactical setup fails, does the Domino Theory apply. That is if one piece falls does the next? If we are not in a tactical straight jacket then there is plenty of room for someone to pick up the slack on the pitch.
I have had reservations about AVB since the day he was appointed. I would have much preferred Moyes, as he has a proven record with very limited resources. I will however concede that now he is here he should be given time. But only until Xmas. Managers, and supporters, expect and demand that players hit the ground running. It is far more important that the Manager does as well.
Was a big gamble from the Teflon chairman getting such a young and inexperienced manager to take over. It was made even more of gamble when the Teflon chairman idiotically left it so late to complete the squad; giving a manager who was going to find it difficult anyway, no time to get the players working as a unit.
Of course it's too early to judge AVB, but two or three more poor performances will have the players losing belief in a man who has no real personality, nor experience of rallying the troops.
Levy is the true culprit here. Redknapp had to go, but if AVB doesn't get the team together soon, things could quickly spiral out of control. If that were to happen, then surely Levy's position becomes untenable, and the 'ILWT' brigade will finally have to take their heads out the sand and face the reality.
Constantly changing manager is no way to carry on, but constantly choosing the wrong one is the real problem.
@Kingdom of Sod
I will put my head on the block, - that Spurs will not be relagated this yea,r or for that matter ever again !
Please chill, - it is only 3 games in and I truly believe that positive thinking will win us the day...
Also do not misunderstand the above that we should not criticise when warranted, - however as you very well know, because of AVB's early dismise at Chelsea, the journos have smelled blood and they are looking for any disunity among The Spurs fans and are ready to stick the knife into AVB and would like nothing more if he was to be sacked early on!
I think we as fans have to be patient and accept that this is building process and yes longtime project ! I said it before, -it might very well take a full season or perhaps two season,s before we will be able to find ourselves in the top 3.
No doubt every Spurs fan wants us to win everything, - nothing wrong with expectations, - but unrealistc expectations ?
Have no fear we shall overcome ! Love The Shirt Love The Spurs !!
"I note Petehawkins94 thinks I am obsessed with points. I am. If we are not well placed at the next transfer window, is it likely that a top class player would want to join us?"
Agreed kingdom of sod, however the next transfer window is 4 months away. As I said earlier, if come Christmas we have not improved at all then I'll be on the same page as all the doubters are now. However there is SO much time between now and then and SO much can (and will) happen.
My point is, and always has been, that I find the constant negativity from the various harbingers of doom in the press and our own fanbase utterly pointless at 3 games in.
I just think at this early stage, getting behind the team would be far more productive. Just my opinion. Let's see how it plays out and make some conclusions when enough has happened to actually make an informed judgement.
@petehawkins94
Yawn! Still this booing discussion going on?? I say booooooooooooooooo boooooooooooo boooooooooooooo to this discussion!
@Peterhawkins94 & Allan
I am behind the team. If I wasn't I would not care what happens. If I didn't care I would not be writing on this blog. A lot, and I mean a lot of us amateurs, don't fancy the man. Graham Roberts and Jan Molby don't fancy him either. In fact I have just noticed that Molby has made a rather damming statement about AVB and his man management skills. Spurs signed Hugo Loris, at some expense, and he had hardly arrived at the club when AVB publicly stated that Brad was still his number one man. That is the sort of thing you DON'T do. No player likes to be down graded, especially publicly. He should have said something like "I now have a problem, two top class keepers to chose from". That satisfies both players. If AVB is going to down grade his players he will never get the best out of them. He did this at Chelsea, sent players to train on their own, park their cars miles away and banned them from the first team eating area and gym when the first team were about. These banned players have friends in the squad. If you tread on enough toes you will lose the dressing room. What happened to Dawson was disgraceful. Captain, off to QPR and then back again. Same with Hud off to Stoke, back again and then in the team. He doesn't seem to know what he is doing with the players. Does he want them or not? Man management skills are essential for any business. With good skills a decent manager can get a mediocre worker to perform well. But if the players don't know if they are coming or going how can you get the best out of them. When anyone feels that they are not worth anything, they simply withdraw into their shells and don't take part in any discussions. AVB will have the floor and no one will question him. They will probably think it's not worth the effort. I am quite satisfied that AVB believes in his own omnipotence. The imperious leader who knows it all. He that must be obeyed. I DO NOT believe that the Chelsea squad had it in for him. I believe that he simply refused to change. If the facts did not suit his beliefs, then the facts were wrong. Not an uncommon belief amongst those who won't listen or take advice. I know this will not sit well with you but I can't see any reason to change my view of this man. However I will offer my apologies if we have improved significantly by Xmas.
I just posted this on the "Quitting" Piece but felt it was more relevent here.
If I am honest I have to say that I am just as guilty as any other desperate spur, hanging onto any piece of gossip which implies the slightest connection to my beloved Spurs; from the sacking of a manager to the signing of the next "Pele", I'M HOOKED.
However I like to think that I am not alone in the fact that I read, I chuckle, I bin.
The meaningless drivel expounded by the inarticulate 'red-biased' media (Take your pick gooners, united or the scousers) has no effect on my attitude toward my club and my passion, they don't get it they just don't get it!!
Success is nice but not necessary.
It's the way we play that counts, what do you think that Blanchflower, Greaves, Chivers,Peters, Perryman, Hoddle and even Gazza would be thinking when they hear the greatest support of them all BOOING?????
Sections of the crowd acting with a 'Divine Expectation' and chucking the rattle out of the pram when things don't click...YET..
To Do is To Dare.. Think about it!!
Are we not being Daring at the moment?
I have no great love of AVB but I feel his abuse at the hands of chelski wil only make him more determined to succeed, personally I intend to cheer my heart out no matter how frustrating and suicidal we play.
It's either that or start playing defensively/cautiously boringly change our strip to red and sit around muttering discontent (But not too loud) no one likes to be chucked out of a library.
Let's be Daring let's give this manager and his vision a proper chance, or act like a red??
I don't know about you but I am better than that...
I'm all for optimism, but with AVB there seems to be little grounds for it.
No signs in his early results of either points or (more importantly) performance.
Bad vibes about his management of some of our players, not fringe players but ones who have been instrumental in our recent good league positions.
A lack of nous regarding our CB and CF depth.
The way he has set the side up thus far, with two no-frills CMs, and negating Bale and Lennon's threat by pushing them up the pitch and swapping them over.
The preference of Livermore and Gallas.
In fact I can't think of one single positive to take from his early reign at all. He's good at handling the media? These are simply observations from his tenure at Spurs, the only relevant empirical data we have to go back to is his time at Chelsea which was an unmitigated disaster. You can talk Porto all day but that's a club in a different country, in a largely uncompetitive league, where they are the biggest fish (or not far from it).
He has the base to work from here already - a core of young, talented players who will only get better. It is he that needs to adapt his ideas to suit our strengths, a style of football that has earned us many admirers. It is not prudent to throw the baby out with the bath water because it doesn't exactly suit his exact ethos (one that has failed in England once already)
@Kingdom of Sod
I have no doubt that your heart beat for the team and fully understand that your beef is only with AVB being appointed Manager and the way he so far has been conducting himself regarding statements of players as well as his tactics, substitutions in the first 3 games of the season.
Allow me to clarify my position: AVB was not my choice to take over from Harry, - my initial favorite was indeed like yourself Moyes ! However we got AVB, - Now, all Im am saying is, - I am prepared to give AVB or for that matter any other newly appointed Spurs Manager able time to get his ideas across to the players, get them playing his way and if that is good and result are great, he will indeed have proven himself to us the fans.
We can agree or disagree how long time he should be given to do just that, - you say come Christmas, - I feel that he should be given at least a full season, - because I see this as a long time project, beside I do not believe that changing Managers mid-season is a good thing.
Anyway, - time will tell if AVB will be able to lead our beloved club to Glory !
Whatever happen I think it important to remember that no one is bigger than The Club, - Not Levy, Nor AVB and neither US the Fans.
Kigdom of Sod I wish you all the very best !
Remember when we used to talk about football?
So, is it time for Bale to move to fullback/wingback? Given how we set up he'd be playing in roughly the same place on the pitch anyway. Of course he'd have to learn how to defend, but currently BAE is so far up the pitch he's not doing a very good job of defending anyway.
International break sucks
Keep going like this Spooky and you'll win the Nobel Prize for Literature, an Honorary Degree at a University of your choosing and a publishing contract with Very Random House. You are moving into a very poorly understood academic area of football; the philosophy of being a fan.
I am in but am also hoping that part III brings forth a tsunami of sarcasm.
Feel like I've covered most of this argument/discussion in previous articles which is why I thought I'd try this (doesn't necessarily mean its going to be good or work but then I have no constraints on this blog, I do as I wish).
I'll hold back on the sarcasm and see what happens on Sunday.
My choice was Martinez, and still would be. He put the groundwork in place for Swansea's ascent, a good deal of which Rodgers took credit for. Always tries to play football, sticks to his principles and has a go despite the disadvantage of having inferior players to call on. Handles the pressure superbly and is a true gentleman. Schooled in Barcelona, with plenty of experience playing and managing in England. When I've seen interviews of him he lives and breathes the game, without coming across as a jargon-junkie. Ticks all my boxes
Definitely not fashionable enough for some though.
"International break sucks"
Certainly does, especially when you've had a bad start to the season.
Banned myself from Twitter until PL starts again to get away from the negativity, which I've managed, but now been drawn in to commenting on blogs!! I don't learn.
@petehawkins94
spooky can we have part 111 please!!
My mum used to smile lovingly, pat me on the head and call me 'Her little monkey'. This was because mum had Glaucoma!!! Like they say: love is blind.
Blind love, is what I beleive affects most yids. But is there something else. Something more hard wired? I beleive there is.(eyebrow slowly rasies) I beleive, we, like smokers, and cannabis users, have specialised receptors that sit dormant deep within the brain of unsuspecting yids. I have named these receptors 'THFC-receptors', (patent pending) they are connected to a labrinth of reward pathways. Pathways to addiction. Rewards are delivered via sight, taste, smell, touch, and sound. The more exposure the non yid gets, the greater the chance of antagonising THFC-receptors. Once antagonised that's your lot, you're nothing but a junkie. Antagonists include, relentless attacking football, the colours white, and blue, spectacular goals, spectacular passes, spectacular tackles, trophies, Europe, and Chaz n Dave.
Like all Receptors, THFC-receptors need rewards, and this explains why I've been less than HApPY of late. If we don't win our next game I fink I may end up eating someone's face. Umm, face & chips
"I have no constraints on this blog, I do as I wish...". Spooky. So can we put the "why I'm quitting" piece on the "moment of madness" shelf?. Satire at its finest...whether the media hacks understand it or not.
Park Lane...I also wanted Martinez to get a chance at Spurs. But once we got AVB...I somehow convinced myself (or some media source brainwashed me...I can't tell the difference) that he is the modern era Brian Clough. I really want him to do well. If he attains 4th..I'll be ecstatic. But he's really had a very poor start. Not the three results but the style of play; especially in the Norwich game. It was simply shocking.
I really really hope he improves. No more subbing off Sandro and leaving Livermore on (actually, the two should never appear on the pitch together ever again. Hope he sorts out the Gareth Bale Conundrum. He plays on the left. Gallas? And most importantly, I hope he asks someone (even Redknapp for goodness sakes!) how to handle the Friedel/Lloris storm that he created. We cant be wasting 12million pounds at this stage of our progression.
Surely zenspurs, part 111?
Ronnie just hoping that everyone will be too tired to argue over the minutest point. I agree that Boas has made mistakes, I wonder if that is a result of his chelsea experience and is him trying to give back up to his defense?? I don't know but i do like the idea that he is DARING to try and change how he works and if the players can do the same then if everyone has an openness to the challenges we will be better placed to deal with the ups and downs of football. I suppose i see the biggest problem to be 2 from 8. If we are in that position then the pressure will be intolorable other than that i think we will at least make the europa cup next yr. But like the doom sayers have been told it is really too early to call.