In Tottenham we trust
Wednesday, June 22, 2011 at 8:45PM My head is pounding, gut churning. You know how it is with man-flu. Fathers amongst you will appreciate that in the first year or so of having a baby you tend to pick up any cold/virus they pick up. Probably a lack of vitamin c on my part, but I appear to be sick without fail every 5-6 weeks. Or perhaps I’m not sick from a bog standard bug and the baby is just a patsy. Perhaps I’m just depressed and I don’t know it.
Lack of summer sun, lack of summer transfer activity.
Sure, we’ve had the Modric saga slapped down like rolled up newspaper squashing a fly. Luka supposedly said what he said. Levy responded and closed the matter. Whispers of a possible statement from the Croatian, but nothing yet. Perhaps there’s no point in one although it would silence the vultures of the press if he came out and said something pro-Tottenham – ending any further sequels to the first episode of discontent.
New kits out. Love ‘em, hate ‘em. Seems like there’s an unwritten rule which must state something like: We shall not release the perfect kit, instead we’ll retain some imperfections with random streaks of yellow just to make it look like some thought went into it. Sponsor pays money, sponsor has right to include their logo on kit, but would be nice if both sponsor and club found a middle ground where they would share a celebratory drink with style. Style, for the record, does not include yellow or a bold font.
Then there’s the Tottenham Hotspur Supporters Trust. You know who they are, right? Quite a few of you do but it’s always up to someone else to remind you, to give you a poke of encouragement to take a look when you’d have probably missed it altogether.
I had no idea they meet with the club on the 14/06/11. I missed a tweet earlier this afternoon that would have linked me to the minutes made live on their site today and only found out about it because someone gratefully left a comment on my blog. Considering the questions asked and the answers given, its information that should be far more reaching. You know, neon lights and not a candle in the wind.
Blogged earlier here highlighting some of the minute but now I have some available time to run through a couple of things that stand out for me.
If you’re on Twitter, follow @SpursFuture for the latest on the stadium developments. Their website is here. Look out for some news they plan to share tomorrow.
Stadium
“The Club is very busy behind the scenes trying to make the NDP viable”
Pretty much what appears to be a very positive message given in the meeting. Either that or a PR friendly ‘we’ve not dismissed the idea of the NDP’. The issue still remains one concerning public sector grants. The project still weighs in at around £250M - £300M leaving it with that not viable tag currently.
You do have to wonder what the committee discuss every week when it's obvious nothing changes from one to the next.
Have we looked elsewhere? Yes. But the land near Tottenham Hale is equally not viable due to the expense of purchasing it and countless surveys and God knows how much more time would have to be spent on proposing design, affect on the surrounding area etc etc.
We appear to be stuck in limbo in terms of direction. The club are at least investigating an increase in any proposed capacity (along with market research for corporate hospitality) but no movement (as you would expect) on naming rights and the supermarket deal. No stadium means we can hardly have a sponsored name for it.
As for the Olympic Stadium shambles, the legal challenge is in process. End of July is when Levy and co will find out the result of their complaint. I guess this is the back-up plan, be it one rooted deep in fantasy (if Levy honestly thinks he’ll get anything over-turned he’s mad). Then again, it’s not about over-turning a decision, you would think it’s more about making a point in how the decision (recommendation) was made.
The point being, we (the club) we’re used to force the reattainment of the running track and the OS legacy via the publicity of our bid in comparison to the one made by West Ham United. Considering how voting went, it was a blatant stitch up. Not that I have any complaints about it. Say no to Stratford all day long. But from the minutes the following leaves me a little cold: “Uncertainty remains that NDP will ever become viable”.
Add that quote with the following: “DL advised that he has no preference re stadium he just wants a stadium solution whatever that may be” – and we are back to the question of geography and history against revenue and progression.
There’s no time-frame on any of this, which makes me question the whole premise of the NDP and it's contingency plans that would have been in the original discussions the club had when outlining the ground redevelopment. To quote the past, if the OS never existed, if the games were to be played in France next year...thus no OS...where would we be looking towards now?
Club suggests we lobby DL David Lammy, Boris Johnson, the Sports Minister and the Local Authority 'to constructively point out the benefits that would accrue to the local community from providing some Public Sector grant support to the stadium project'.
Game of tennis.
Transfers
Nothing we don’t know already. We need to ‘trim the existing first team’. No sh*t Sherlock. We’ve got enough deadwood to reconstruct the Great Fire of London. Get the impression Danny boy is always looking to make a profit on a player bought and then sold on. Which might see us getting unstuck with one or two turning away at the thought of paying what our valuation is for the likes of say, Robbie Keane or Wilson Palacios. Selling players who no longer fit into our plans will also aid with the wage bill.
‘There will be activity this summer’.
Set your watches for the final ten minutes on the last day of the transfer window. No, hold up don't fret, it’s just how it all works. Deals only kick-off in domino fashion when everyone gets desperate as time runs out. Levy states he understands why there is a perception but it’s not deliberate.
Phew. I was going to suggest we only have a transfer window of 2 days in the middle of the summer for all clubs to do their deals in. It will be akin to Wall Street with loads of chairman waving their hands around in the air screaming and shouting. Robbie Keane will no doubt be in the thick of it, signing for at least seven boyhood clubs who would share him across the course of a season.
Levy cites wish lists and clubs working through them. Perhaps it’s best to just cross out the ones that are unlikely or just start from the bottom up. Unless Carlton Cole is at the bottom of said list. Let’s be fair, I don’t think it’s an easy job to do. As long as we do have a wish list and we aim to work through it with urgency. Problem can usually sit with the opposing club who might want to hold off for a bigger fee. That’s not to say I will be forgiving if we don’t sign what we need to sign this summer. Have to be decisive.
Interestingly, the manager puts forward recommendations for players and the chairman and board of directors discuss taking into account long term financial implications. Actually, that’s not that interesting. It’s quite traditional. Although obviously Levy does a bit of work on the side (i.e. van der Vaart).
The hypothetical situation outlined (during the meeting) in terms of when the chairman/directors would say no to a proposed deal relates to a big fee for a 30+ player with little chance of re-sale or the possibility of a new manager taking over during the player’s contract who might not see the player as part of his squad.
Hypothetical or perhaps a clue to our not so far off future? I would hope the club look at certain potential players on merit of ability/experience and what they could offer in the way of leadership and that galvanising touch. Now say signing Scott Parker for £8M-£10M would fall into the ‘just say no’ category due to his age and the fact that Harry will probably not be Spurs manager beyond the 2012 season. It’s logical not to splash out such a sum on a player that wouldn’t even be first choice at Spurs (my two cents). But say, just for the hell of it, Drogba was available for £3M-£5M...would that not be a worthwhile investment? You wouldn’t get any money back on re-sell but you’d make your money back on another CL placement. No? That's the risk, gotta speculate to accumulate.
Finally, academy players. Lack of. Club are aware improvements are needed. Caulker gets a special mention, as many of us already hope he will be a special player for us in the future. We need more of this.
Harry and the Press
Brilliant side-stepping here. Harry calling fans idiots, accepted by the club as an inappropriate comment to make but it’s the fault of Sky Sports thus, mitigating circumstances, that Harry was given a leading question to answer. We’ve apparently spoken to Sky about this.
Harry loves the media, media loves Harry. Always the potential for the good and bad. Perhaps if Harry limited himself to only, say, 400 interviews a day...he wouldn’t slip up too often.
Shame the Trust didn’t ask why Harry persists with the disassociation (it’s always ‘them’ never ‘us’). I’m being petty now. We all know his only priority is to himself. I hardly care as long as he produces the goods next season.
Finance
We didn’t make as such from the CL as other English clubs due to the limited stadium capacity and restricted corporate hospitality. All links into the search for a NDP solution or a potential agreeable move to a new location that won’t fragment support. Although chairman is simply looking at the club as an entity, a brand and all that matters is that 60k capacity and plenty of boxes for the rich to swim in tubs of caviar whilst drinking unicorn blood from diamond encrusted skulls of baby seals. Because he knows in the CL (gotta get back there) we would sell out and the revenue would make us richer. If we’re 14th now in the world (last time I looked) then it’s scary to think how strong we’d be with a new stadium.
But then, call me soft, call me a romantic...I’d rather it be just under 60K and built in N17. Tottenham is Tottenham after all. Sorry, I want my cake and I want to eat it.
Kit and Sponsorship
Reason for delay in release of kits? To coincide with the shirt sponsors launch of a new product. I honestly don’t think anyone is going to care about the launch of the shirt sponsors new product. Do football fans really take note of what's on a kit other than the badge? I know advertising is just that but I didn't spend the 80s painting the walls because Liverpool were always on tv drunk on Holsten.
Under Armour from next season replacing Puma. Five year contract. Let’s pray they don’t include the random yellow streaks in their début kits.
That’s as much as I can muster.
Join me on Twitter because that's where I live.
Reader Comments (38)
Excellent summary, Spooky - I feel pretty much the same as you. Minutes were well worth a read, but we didn't learn TOO much.
Spooks - totally OT, but what did you think to the last episode of GoT?
Loved it. Gonna go out and buy the book (700 pages), then work through the rest of them until season 2 (in Spring 2012).
Spooky most men get ill when a new baby comes along especially when they need changing and feeding it will go when they are toilet trained and they can feed themselves.You are calling the piss stain but we got fourth with it remember . The new kit is boring and too plain for me and needs the blue flash like the black one has with the yellow stripe. The new rules will stop these teams in there tracks City Oilers Chelsea Siberia and Man Utd Bankers
In conclusion, I need more energy drink?
The "new rules" will only affect the people that don't pay back handers. UEFA is FIFA's (Blatter's) little bitch.
It is better to trust and support Tottenham Hotspur than any individual president, player or manager.
I believe big money clubs will always find ways to bypass the law.
As we have in the past. Teddy Sherringham, anyone?
Fantastic musings, e're very lucky to have fans like you that actually take the time to highlight inside meetings minutes, simply awesome. Regarding your kid and your health, I feel these days it's not a question of IF you take nutritional food supplements, but which ones. Look into Mannatech glyco-nutritional stuff, both my 3 year old daughter and I have only been sick once since she was born 3 years ago. You need to stay healthy so we can keep having these great updates, please investigate Spooky! COYS
"a capital cost of £250-£300m"
i presume the figures of £400m+ quoted (not by the club) during the whole Stratfrod debate are gross of any income from housing & commercial/retail development.
That gives an insight into the Stratford costs because Stratford would not require any transport contributions and the WHL site would be developed in full, thus generating greater income. So maybe a swing of upto £50m of increased income and costs saved.
In addition, much of the ground work of the Stratford stadium (thats the expensive bit) would have been done already, the plan was to build on the footprint of the OS, so you could expect the capital expenditure to drop significantly, maybe upto £100m.
Therefore , using my back of fag packet calculations, it would seem that Stratford could be £150m chepaer, and total capital cost about half of the NDP. Not not even allowing for Stadium sponsorship. Arsenal are believed to have got £150m from Emirates!
You can see why Levy's eyes have lit up about Stratford. he is a businessman, the business case is compelling and it would effectively be a fast track to being on a financial par with the likes of Arsenal, whose income is the 4 highest in Europe and nearly £100m more than Spurs.
the ndp does cost too much and the increased revenue will not necessarily cover the construction cost, in fact a back of the envelope makes it damn clear it wont. the cost of carrying 300 mill of debt (interest and capital to be repaid) is not financed out of increased ticket sales, it just isnt. the increased corp hospitality revenue would be key, very key whether one likes it or not. i have never seen any reason to believe that joe lewis would make a gift to the club, why should he? and he is not allowed to now. so corp hospitality is key but you just wont get the city and canary wharf guys coming up there with important clients. it is too hard and time consuming. and frankly many people do not want to bring impt clients to that neighbourhood. I overheard some americans at a dinner talking about how they had been taken to see to see a premiere league game by some english friends. i was eavesdroping and as soon as one of them said, "it took forever to get there, we drove and drove and frankly the neighbourhoopds made the south bronx look wealthy " i would have bet my last penny on where they were describing, and sure enough one of them then mangled the pronunciation, ossie style.
stratford? well is it ideally placed for that corp entertaining and that is why levy wants it and why the pronnographers want it. that and the fact that it represents a gift from the governmet that i think levy would use to build the club (the pornographers? well who knows?) someone asked on a prior posting why would a billionaire like lewis get public funding. well to rebuild a terribly poor neighbourhood. arsenal got public funding and the have several billionaires, none english and one who spent 8 years in prison.
wake up guys, it was clear as day that if we did not go to stratford we did not get npd, levy made it cl;ear it does not work financially,. i believed him and i am content with mid -table and staying wherewe are. do not dare to start to whinge and complain because you were proved to be wrong when you thought he was bluffing.
No worries spooky...........I only heard about the meeting after someone linked it to me.....regarding illness, my first question would be to ask you if you're a smoker?
Get well, and nice summary..interesting stuff...
i should add that my rude comment about not whinging is not directed at anyone on this thread, but generally to the many who spoke out loudly aganist stratford. a view i respected and in significant part shared. but as i said at the time, my support was always on the baiss of the realism that stadia do not grow on trees.
Don't smoke. Christ, if I did, I'd be 10 years dead.
Funny you should say about Harry and his disassociation because it's not always the case. When we win it's 'when we win', it's only they 'when they lose'.
spooky, one word 'berocca' that will see you through the first year, and turn your piss a proper bright yellow to match the away top. From memory I don't recall too much about the first six months other than berocca and red bull helped.
As for spurs / DL and the minutes, didn't expect anything less than the responses the questions got. Same old, same old.
cyril
I share your sentiments. Stratford is by far the best option except for the one big factor of the clubs historial location. That for many is too big an obstacle to overcome, outweighing all the benefits of STratford and that is fair enough and an opinion I respect and to a large degree share.
However, those 100% against Stratford have to have a realistic overview that the NDP is unviable and even if we got some more backing, it would be a huge financial burden that would affect our ability to compete on and off the pitch.
So many fans want everything and are critical of Levy&Co. for not pulling a vaible stadium plan out of a hat. It is like you say, they don't grow on trees. The same fans want us to be spending the sort of money Chelsea, City, LFc did in January on a couple strikers to fill the "obvious" gaps in the team (obvious, with the power of 20:20 hindsight).
Right now the times are good. Great squad, money to improve it this summer, decent results on the pitch......if we stay at WHL long term then our ability to compete will diminish. If we can make the NDP float then, like Arsenal, the financial constraints on our spending will be huge. So many are so critical of the club and team. I hear it every other saturday. They forget the bad times of the last 20 years and fail to even consider that any non-Stratford Stadium option will likely see us hampered with debt and we will again be struggling to compete with those in the top 6.
Like you I am prepared to accept mid-table if we achieve the NDP, but I know that the same voices who attacked Levy about Stratford will be the ones attacking him for our failure to be able to compete in the transfer market and/or on the pitch because of Stadium debt.
Mind you, i remember watching Spurs beat Derby 3-0 a few years back and the 2 guys sat next to me whinged all game about the team, how we should have scored 7 etc....some (the majoirty) are never happy!
The great achievement of wenger is that he has kept them in the cl every year and has got them into a new stadium and got the debt under control, having subsidised with amazing profits in the transfer market with anelka and overmaars(sp?) etc. i laugh when i hear their fans say they have won nothing. they are in an extraordinarily strong position now, especially with fair play rules comeing in, and they did not do it with a the money of a dodgy russian or wealthy arab. they have a dodgy soviet union guy altho i understand he was pardoned fully after he 8 years in jail (he might have some tips ofr harry on how to survive), wonder what the pardon cost. if arsenal had not had the good fortune to watch spurs get ill on the last day of the season a few years back then they would have been in big trouble. they needed the cl revenue and they especially needed it when they recovered so much less for the flats at highbury after the markets crashed. they have been very very lucky in some ways. and with the fair play rules coming in the possibility of the sugar daddy bankrollling a club to new promience is out the window. that is why the only way to compete with arsenal was to get the gift of the olympic stadium where the lucky winner gets bankrolled by the govt and the little shit that is seb coe. it does annoy me to think of the pornographers getting it it, first because i dont like them, second because i am tax payer and third because while they will probably screw it up is the way with w. ham, the fact is w ham will have basis to be much bigger than spurs.
Cyril
Anyone who thinks that the porno-twins are in WHU for the good of the club are seriously misguided. They saw the potential of the Olympic Stadium and knew that the potential of WHU is much greater when they get handed a 60000 seater £600m facility for free. The £50m or so they spent buying it will be small changed compared to the clubs value with the benefit of the OS.
While that potential still has to be realised, which needs success on the pitch to bring in the punters, it is real potential ....for Spurs to realise similar potential will cost us upwards of £300m and we are still in a location which is about as attractive and accessible as the arse-end of nowhere.
As for Arsenal, even with great potential revenues from the residential development of Highbury, a big stadium sponsor on board, and established presence in the CL, they struggled to get finance in the boom times, finance which had to be re-organised during construction leading to work on the stadium build being stopped tempoarily.
Spurs are in a far worse position, both in terms of income from development and the ability to gain a big sponsor and a finance house to back the project in a depressed economy. It
will be years before THFC can start work on the stadium.
"someone asked on a prior posting why would a billionaire like lewis get public funding. well to rebuild a terribly poor neighbourhood. arsenal got public funding and the have several billionaires, none english and one who spent 8 years in prison."
Isn't it just the stadium and a small area around it that is (was) going to be rebuilt? You make it sound like most of Haringey would be rebuilt.
Can you please tell me how much public funding the scum got?
"Arsenal received public money for their stadium, why can't Haringey Council do the same?"
This is another common misconception, brought on from an insinuation made in a statement from Club Chairman Daniel Levy:
“This is a development with the potential to kickstart regeneration in one of the most deprived boroughs in London, where land values are poor and yet no regeneration monies are available to it. This is in contrast to the stadia developments of Arsenal and Wembley which were both awarded public sector assistance.”
Islington Council have made it quite clear that no public money was given to Arsenal at any point over the building and development process.
Regardng financial "fair play" - I know what the regs are, but does anyone know what the punishments are? Hefty fines? Deducted points? Relegation? Or is it something like a £5k fine and a stern warning rendering the whole thing meaningless?
"Word coming from David Bond that Tottenham have had bid for judicial review of West Ham Olympic Stadium decision rejected by a judge"
Yep - Telegraph are "exclusively" reporting that the review application has been rejected.
Can the club please finally move on now from this embarrassing Stratford debacle and concentrate on signing a striker or two?
Hoping we fight as hard for N17 to be viable once more as 'we' have for the OS.
I just read the article, and I've no doubt Levy will waste more time by appealing against the decision not to let us appeal in the first place.
Levy was more concerned with the OS this year than getting top 4.
Hopefully any appeal will be turned down ASAP so he can move on and the club/business can as well.
I still think it looks as though some sort of work had been done behind the ground at whl -visible on google maps- why do that if plans weren't viable at one point in time.
Fingers crossed, the only way my son will get an ST is either a collapse in current ST holders or a new stadium. 23000 on the list does not bode well.
Unfortunately this season has proved one thing - big signings like CL clubs because CL clubs pay big wages. When a club that doesnt pay big wages and is in the CL (us) bids for a player that a club that does pay big wages but isnt in the CL (Liverpool, City) even when it isnt clear that that wont remain the same in the coming year, the player still picked the big wages over CL. Ultimately bigger stadium means bigger wages means those two strikers you're asking for, otherwise we have to keep taking a chance and turning up diamonds with the risk of waving goodbye when a bigger contract comes along
I understand that we can't compete wage wise for the 'top, top players' until we have a bigger stadium - it's bleeding obvious!
But that doesn't mean that Redknapp and Levy should be excused for hiding behind that fact. They should be (have been) finding and signing strikers whose wages we can afford.
If Redknapp can't find strikers better than what we've got now (and they're not exactly earning peanuts), then he either shouldn't be in the job or a DOF needs to be brought in sharpish (maybe both).
Sick to the back teeth of Redknapp and his disciples using poverty as the reason for his failure to finish 4th or higher.
"Levy was more concerned with the OS this year than getting top 4."
One of the dumbest comments I've ever read on here. Of course he wasn't. Levy is an utter prefessional and exceptionally good at his job. If you think he spent Nov, Dec and Jan wondering about the Stadium and ignoring the transfer window then you are blinkered by your dislike of Levy.
Look at the deals that went through in January - Saurez £23m, Torres £50m, Dzeko £27m, Carrol £35m = £135m for 4 players, who scored 8 goals between them from Jan to May. Crazy money was being paid, Torres was bought for cash by Chelsea and LFC were able to throw that cash around. God knows what wages Dzeko is on, but there is no doubt its a lot more than Defoe who actually scored 4 league goals since Jan compared to Dzekos 1.
People are so critical of Defoe and many cite our failure to buy saurez as a massive error....but look at the stats: since Saurez arrived he started 12, 1 sub and scored 4.
In the same period, Defoe started 10, 3 sub and scored 4.
Time will tell whether Saurez is a successful buy, he has the advatange of teams not being used to him so he has the element of surprise right now.
Buying a striker is not like popping out to buy the paper, or pressing a few keys on your pc while playing championship manager.
Get real!
This is worth a laugh (at the spammer's expense):
http://newsthump.com/2011/02/14/west-ham-fans-demand-to-sit-further-from-the-pitch/
BTW, spooky, it will be at least two years before the germ warfare begins to die down, especially if the nipper goes to nursery.
Devonshirespur, why are you just looking at the January transfer window? We haven't had a decent striker since the Bulgarian rat left.
What shall we do, wait until a new stadium magically appears, before we sign a striker?
It may not be easy, but isn't that what Redknapp is paid handsomely to f ing do?
She goes to nursery. Hence the reason for my constant ill health.
"Sick to the back teeth of Redknapp and his disciples using poverty as the reason for his failure to finish 4th or higher"
So if it isnt lack of top wages thats stopping us what is? you say we haven't got a DoF or Scout system working, but other clubs have and they arent turning up top strikers on low wages either. We had a world Cup not long back and the only unknown striker that left any impression was Gyan, 1! in a whole tournament, none of the under 21 strikers left me awestruck in the recent events either.
Sad to say, a striker is a position that just needs a hint of potential to catapult his wages above our ceiling, get as many scouts and directors as you want, it doesnt change that.
So what do we do, bonse? Stick with what we've got until the new stadium is built, or actually get Redknapp to do his job and find or gamble on a striker who's better than the tat we've got now, and is prepared to slum it at £70,000 a week. We're not paying peanuts, but we've certainly got monkeys.
Redkapp took a gamble on sticking with his players, and lost. Time to use all those years of experience, and take a considerd gamble on other players we can afford to pay.
Devonshire spur
Dumb it may be but the truth it is.
Levy said he would not chase top 4. He said that not me.
He also said he would do everything in his power to move the club forward reference the stadium.
Dumb? In hindsight for levy maybe, but me writing it. I don't think so. I like levy. I think he has done a great job but this year his mind was distracted by the once in a lifetime stadium opportunity. Harry looked at cl more than top 4 as well in my opinion. Another dumb, blinkered comment from myself
Maybe we should all start bombarding Under Armour with ideas for what the kit should be like...i dread to think what type of soccer jersey they may come up with, even if they have heart monitors built inside.