Leave it out
Sunday, February 13, 2011 at 9:15PM Final thoughts on Stratford.
Not that all Hammers fans would agree, but there's certainly a percentage of them that wanted to win the bid just so that Spurs didn't and they could claim some ilk of moral victory over the ethics of moving into their patch (fair enough). However, now the realisation is sinking in that they've got an athletics stadium for a football home with the closest seat 45 meters away and the furtherest over 200 metres. Better hope Gold and Sullivan leave a jazz mag under each seat to keep the ICF busy with their fists.
Spurs were obviously used (you don't lose a vote 14-0) to make certain that the bid that won retained the legacy rather than see North Londoners demolish the stadium and rebuild to fit it's primary footballing objective.
Whether Levy genuinely knew this, p*ssing in the wind or otherwise (on the off chance of winning because our bid was more viable on paper) or simply spent time and effort to make sure Haringey understood his threat of leaving N17 - is all fairly redundant now. I think it's fantasy to think this was about local politics and the non-viable NDP. He wanted the OS. Hoping he wasn't fooled into believing he could actually get it. Because that would suggest weakness rather than Machiavellian traits.
Hindsight, so wonderful. Did we all get a tad too giddy and defensive (whether you were pro or anti?). Did we really need to protest by blog, petition and demonstration? Yes. Of course. Although I found far more people in favour of moving on-line than I have IRL.
We all entertained the idea because of all the rhetoric in the media and the resulting knee-jerks required to work through it all in our minds. It made us question what progression meant and what sacrifices were required if any and whether we would actually accept them. You couldn't ignore the lack of transparency, Brady mouthing off at any given opportunity and the hard sell from Levy. Even with the in-fighting within the Spurs fanbase, the debate (name calling aside) was pretty good - on both sides of the argument.
Sadly, much like if a club wants a manager out and a couple of hundred people turn up for a demo outside the front gates, you find there's always a majority bulk that let the minority do all the complaining. Much like when a bloke on a train doesn't bother getting up for a pregnant lady because he expects someone else to do the right thing. It's a trait this country does very well.
Easier for others to fight the fight than to commit above and beyond. And in addition you'll unlikely to have thousands turn up outside WHL to rally in favour of leaving N17, are you? You would just sit in your seat and wait for it to pan out.
Initially found myself trying to process the potential when it became apparent that the club believed it was the best option to move to East London. Tried to justify it until it was abundantly clear that I had no faith in the move. Was hardly even an epiphany to be honest. I just listened to my heart. It's how I'm built. Others were more pragmatic, logical in terms of the fiscal aspects - all based around the apparent immediate necessity to take advantage of the OS because we were made to believe the club believed it was this or nothing.
Very little, it seems can be taken at face value.
Onwards once more. No other choice. If the whole Stratford argument did not exist, the club would still need to progress (by expanding) so nothing has or should change just because a decision was made a few years back to award London with the Olympic games. The club should retain it's ambition. Onwards.
So here's hoping there is no more in-fighting, sitting on the fence and petitions. Just Tottenham Hotspur.
COYS.
Reader Comments (77)
Related but without the poison: I wonder if Statford is what cost us a striker in the January transfer window?
I know when you're lobbying and pitching big things at high levels it simply soaks inordinate amounts of time. Way more than you ever think a Powerpoint preso could if you've never done it. Late nights re-hashing, second guessing, commiticising. Given Levy would have been balls deep in that, I think it probably cost us in January when he should have been at said depth in squad related stuff: hacking away deals for deadwood for good and bringing in some spritely new saplings.
I wonder if this will be the real Stratford legacy. Not just a failed/hailed move depending on your camp, but a real and immediate impact this season.
Re Top 5 Clashes - don't forget Spurs v Arsenal!
Like someone mentioned earlier its a plus we have to play alot of top five games. Our away forms been decent this season and luckily everyone has written us off again, so the pressure will be on City / Chelsea which is great. Were more then capable of beating both of them. If we can just keep in touch I truly believe our team spirit will get us fourth. That and Van der Vaart, ha ha ha
All the anti-stratfords all got their knickers in a twist. Instead of seeing this as part of a big plan with the ultimate aim of bettering our situation, they all threw their toys out and started protesting and demanding the head of Levy/ENIC. They started calling pro-stratford fans as plastic and not die-hard etc, taking some sort of smug high ground. It was pathetic. As was the behavior of the "Champion of Tottenham", Lammy MP....his negative approach was a disgrace and smacked of someone seeking the headlines, rather than doing what is best for his constituents....ie move Heanven and Earth to ensure Spurs can build in Tottenham, rather than simply attacking & undermining Spurs' options
The world and his dog is now aware of Spurs plight in affording a new stadium. Lammy bleated on about the "betrayal by Levy", but he will have little support from fans if Spurs found a site in neighbouring Enfield, so he should take it very seriously that Spurs could move just one mile and leave his precious borough and leave the area in dire straits.
As for the rest of you anti lot.....if you really care so much then you should all be writing to Lammy. here, let me get you started:
Dear Lammy MP
You have your wish. Spurs will not be moving to the Olympic Stadium. However, now you negative campaign is over i hope you will be doing everything in your powers to ensure Spurs can afford to develop their NDP which will not only maintain their presence in your Borough but will be one of the finest stadiums in Europe, and a force for good in regenerating the area, the burden of which should not solely lie with THFC. Please put your position and power to a Postive use!
From Spurs Supporter.
ps....please don't twitter contents of private meetings with the club, it makes you look like an attention seeking twat, scoring cheap points. While your recent behavior has done nothing to change this perception, you now have a chance to redeem yourself.
Lammy has a lot to prove now. Best not be a dick about it.
The main question is : do you want our club move to next level and become a world level club?
The second question is: can we achieve this without expanding our current number of supporters (if of course you don't have a millionaire who feeds the club with huge amount of money)?
If our answer to second question is positive then to have in the shortest possible time an affordable to finance bigger stadium is an important aspect.
Then the third question is: what can contribute better to that target: to have this stadium in a remote place or in a centrally situated with a lot of facilities place (I am not talking only about Stratford which was a case that had suddenly emerged). If you really want your club to grow bigger then this is inevitable. The glory which it is associated the current site comes from almost fifty years behind. The world is moving forward and in the meanwhile other clubs with a progressive and most intelligent point of few have taken the place of Spurs as top club and they have won many domestic and international titles leaving Spurs with the glory of the past. It is about time Spurs to win titles and championships. To achieve this you need a progressive and intelligent way of thinking and acting. It is a simple as this. It is only a matter of thinking progressively and not backwards. Don't forget that the motto of Spurs is “to dare is to do”. Let's put it into effect.
loanX....well siad. A voice of reason balancing the heart with the head.
The problem with this whole thing was that so many were deciding with only their heart.....but rest assured in 5 years time if Spurs stagnate, struggle to find the investment to make the next step and slip back to also-rans or worse, those same fans will be the ones moaning.
Moving to somewhere like Enfiled will pose all the same problems.....in accessible, expensive, EN postcode, not in Tottenham....for many its N17 or nothing, which is proving to be unsustainable.
still wouldn't trust haringey to run a children services department.
I think alot could depend on our partnership with AEG. Is this now over? It seems like AEG want a piece of the London pie, and Tottenham are there way in. Am I also right in thinking they were the ones willing to pay Beckhams crazy wages to take him to LA galaxy?. If so, it shows they like to have the best of everything. If there still willing to be involved im sure a new stadium plan will happen soon. I just got a funny feeling it will be in north london, but not Harringey.
loanX,
Yes, the motto is 'To Dare Is To Do', but it isn't 'To Dare Is To Do One'.
The opportunity for the Stratford land grab on the cheap has passed. Deal with it! Where do you want to put THFC now, Trafalgar Square? Tottenham will be staying in Tottenham. There is no reason to move now as the cost will be just the same, if not more, to build elsewhere when you consider the time and money it will take to draw up new plans and get permission to build. The quicker Levy swallows his pride (and this goes for you Stratfordites too) the quicker we can build the NDP and 'progress'.
Devonshirespur,
This most be the most elaborate game of poker ever known to man. Do you really think Levy was going to say no to Stratford if offered it?
TMWNN - Yes the opportunity has now passed for Stratford. I am someone who was in favour of the move as I believe we need it to progress. That said if there was any way we could stay in Tottenham that would obviously be my preference. You say there is no reason to move and that we should progress the NDP, I disagree. Taking everything else out the equation like 106 and Heritage etc, if you or any one else can tell me just how we could get 60,000 fans to Tottenham on a matchday and provide the necessary parking and trains to facilitate them then I am willing to accept I am wrong. Unfortunately we have to move. Where to that's anybody's guess.
Fat lady be singin' her heart out!
Bob, ask Mr Levy. He's the one who has already had the plans approved by Haringey and the Mayor. I'm sure if it was that much of a concern permission wouldn't have been granted.
I don't want to appear antagonistic, but the NDP has always been 'viable', it was a lie to say otherwise. Some of the more gullible Spurs' fans took Levy's spiel, hook line and sinker. There's no real shame in that, just as long they learn from it.
Crystal Palace or the area around the dome are our next best bets now.
Dome far more likely than Crystal Palace. If we moved to Crystal Palace can you even begin to imagine the shit storm?
sorry chaps, but if we all put more effort into convincing levy that we dont need a new stadium but increasing the capacity of our exsisting one, we'd be in a much better position. not just financially but in the fact that WHL is our home and we shoud be doing more to embrace everything about our magnificent club. would anybody go through all the pain and grief of moving home if they could simply increase the size of their existing home and keep all the memories they've created and cherished in the past. NO
Watching tottenham means more than a brand spanking new stadium, with all the money that comes from naming rights and sponsorship which would only hold 56,000 ( not enough in my opinion). there is more than enough room to increase the current facillities but its a common theme now, that the answer to everyones prayers is a new stadium. Man utd have proved that you can increase capacity slowly and still be able to invest into the squad.
The East and West stand at WHL are equally inadequate today, and remodernizing would surely be the easier option allround. stuff the talk of transport links, this issue is dead. only one club in the premier league has a major train station within a mile of their ground, newcastle. Its a nightmare geting home from every ground in london so please dont be fooled into thinking ours is the worst, its not. its the same story up and down the country. But we're lagging behind massively in revenue and ground capacity throughout the league. we have the fan base and the money, all thats missing is the will to do it.
Yidio - Arsenal have three stations serving it, Upton Park station is 2 mins walk away from the ground, Chelsea have Fulham Broadway and West Brompton, Fulham have 3 underground stations serving it within a 15-20 min walk. You clearly haven't been to Spurs on a match day if you think that getting close to 60,000 people there isn't going to be a problem. All very well have a nice new stadium, but not ideal if large sections remain empty after kick off as people have trouble getting there.
Whilst, as i said earlier, in an ideal world everyone wants to stay in Tottenham, that isn't likely to happen so you may as well try and embrace change now so it doesn't come as a shock later on.
honestly clubs like spurs and westham dont deserve big stadiums as it doesnt suits their liitle stature and what good is 60000 seater stadium when it would b half empty , but chelsea definately deserves a bigger stadium and may b arsenal also need another 10000 extension due to long season - tickets waiting line they have..
TMWN - I wouldnt waste your energy mate. Stratford aint happening and we can just enjoy the moment. Who knows whats round the corner but this is a welcome break from it.
Come on you Spurs
Naming rights as I understand it are the main point that is making the NDP 'unviable'. By staying in Tottenham it is felt that all fans will retain its name as White Hart Lane, why would anyone want to pump in millions if the name is not used. This would not be the case if we moved into the Stratford 'AEG Stadium'
Mighty Blues - someone I work with is a season ticket holder at Chelsea. He reckons around 15% of people who buy tickets are day trippers and tourists.
You need to look further back than 5 years and remember the attendances you got when you were, let's say, a lesser team. For all of Tottenham's woeful Prem placements in the 1990's - we still retained near capacity attendances. We have a massive fanbase. 60k is probably a tad too much considering how content people are with staying home for category C games. 52 - 55 k would guarantee tickets got sold out.
I think you seem to have fallen for one or two fallacies judging by your opinion.
Let's kill one myth about the West Ham bid and public money. The money they are getting from Newham is a loan not a subsidy. It has to be paid back, with interest. Newham will also get benefits in the form of usage and access to the stadium. The government money going into building the stadium and infrastracture is for the Olympics only, and would benefit whoever takes over the stadium.
I agree that we have to move on, and resolve the issues over the NDP. Regardless of which way we go it's going to cost, and we will incur debts which will take years to pay off.
I believe the NDP was always viable, but the OS was MORE viable....................
Levy now has to readjust his mental state and go back to the original plan. The question is - can he??
To be honest, unless he finds a site in London, access may always be a problem.
There is of course an option of a stadium in the new Earls Court development - Chelsea are looking at this now!!
"Spurs were obviously used (you don't lose a vote 14-0) to make certain that the bid that won retained the legacy rather than see North Londoners demolish the stadium and rebuild to fit it's [ = it is] primary footballing objective."
" The club should retain it's [it is] ambition. Onwards."
Sorry to be so lame. But really sick of poor quality English school writing on these sites.
Canadian English Teacher. Maybe the clue is in the name. Couldn't get a job in England then mate. Get a life
Bob, I never said getting 60,000 in and out wouldn't be a problem. Of course it would I'm not an idiot. All those clubs you mentioned have underground stations feeding them. And I'm sure you seen you don't just walk straight into Fulham Broadway, Upton park or Arsenal station without a long old wait, just like WHL. We also have 4 stations all within a 20 minute walk of the ground but most just use WHL and Northumberland park. If the club made more of an effort to get fans to use Bruce Grove and angel road it would help the congestion at WHL after matches. Also if you all knew that it took a little longer getting into the ground people would leave the pubs earlier rather than 2:50 as the majority of fans do today.
To your other remark I've had a season ticket since 94/95 season so I know first hand how bad it is leaving after the game, which I might add only really affects those who drive to games. If more people used public transport it wouldn't be as bad.
AUTHOR OF COMMENT - I am not saying this will happen but it is possible and at the moment their future is looking a lot more certain than ours.
I like the current situation where we are vying with Chelsea and Arsenal as the best team in London. The prospect of being fourth best after those teams and West Ham is grim by any standards.
Time will tell.