If Stratford Hotspur happens, it ends there...
Saturday, January 8, 2011 at 7:10PM Guest blog by Jack aka tehTrunk.
Yes hello, you may remember me, I was the bloke what done them little cartoon things with the voices and stuff. I'm here today in a different capacity, to share my thoughts on the eerily quiet new stadium goings on at Stra...Tottenham Hotspur. I say quiet, but thankfully Karen Brady's constant barking does serve some purpose, if only in reminding us of the fact that we could well, genuinely, be leaving not just White Hart Lane but Tottenham itself.
Yeah, this could actually happen. WTF OMG?!!1! (I'm writing on the internet, it's allowed (lol))
Now, I'm not from Tottenham, I don't even live in North London. My allegiance with Spurs is the age old father son connection familiar with many football fans. You know, when dad creeps into your bedroom at night, gagging you with an Arsenal scarf in order to play hide the magic banana? Since those days, anything bearing the cannon of them lot down the road turns my stomach and reminds me of those mornings where I'd have to swagger into school like a cowboy. This then reminds me of cowboys which I also hate (I always preferred Indians). Suffice to say that sitting through Brokeback Mountain was a nightmare.
Alas, I digress.
Where was I?
Oh yes, I support Tottenham but I'm not from Tottenham, there we go.
These recent mutterings that we could be leaving Tottenham to take up residence in the Millennium Dome (er Olympic Stadium mate?!)have created a strange and uncomfortable conflict within my thoughts, much like when I catch a glimpse of Niko Kranjcar. As I've already covered but will tell you again, Tottenham isn't my home, the team Tottenham Hotspur isn't my local team so why should I care where the team plies it's trade? I don't know really, but I do.
History has always been an important part of this club, given that during the years I've supported them there has been little success, but it's been instilled into me that this is a club with heritage, with tradition. I'm sure most clubs think this way, but we support Spurs, we don't care what myths other clubs supporters perpetuate amongst themselves. We're onto a new chapter now, who knows where it goes. I'm enjoying, while it lasts, us grabbing headlines and having a squad filled with world class players, but this isn't why I support Spurs.
We all know about our cup runs, and double heroics and European glory glory nights so I'll save the maudlin mush.
Football is a business (no sheet Sherlock). It's easy to say, but it's hard to grasp what this actually means. Business' exist to make money. The chairmen, the board, they don't care about you, they don't care about me (they should care about me, I'm awesome. Not you though. D*ckhead) Does the CEO of McDonalds care that your burger doesn't look like it does in the picture on the board?
Daniel Levy is a business man. Don't ever forget that. For all his 'Spurs fan' talk, he's a business man. He's not big Dan from down the pub who wears a Spurs shirt on match days and gets asked to leave the pub when he's had a few too many and is getting loud sweary cross and scaring the couple who just popped in for an ale and glass of house white after finishing shopping, whilst he watches Spurs lose to Wolves at home (all in 3D mind). Levy, and the people surrounding him want to make money. This isn't all a bad thing, money has allowed us to assemble the squad we see before us today. Moving to the Olympic Stadium makes perfect business sense.
It's cheaper than building an entirely new stadium. It has a massive capacity. It looks well nice so will entice new fans. Having a massive, well nice stadium increases the club's prestige both at home and abroad. This will see a rise in the attendance, fan base and the type of investors and players we can attract to the club. Maybe it'll even see us become a more attractive option to a super mega rich foreign owner, who'll buy us Messi and we can win everything and be the best team in the world and even make it onto Sky Sports montages and have our players pictured on the front of the packets of football stickers found on the newsagent's counter.
Spurs, nay, football in general is entering into a dangerously vacuous and shallow era. This potential move to Stratford is a perfect example of that. Forget the history, forget about the locals, forget the name, we're going to move. We'll be Stratford Hotspur, it'll be just the same just we'll make more money and maybe win more stuff and then football will be more better, honest. Yeah, worked well for Wimbledon.
You can scream at me until you're blue faced, the endless clichés that 'we have to do it to compete', 'we want to win stuff what with City getting better now', 'Liverpool will bounce back sooner or later'. I don't care. I didn't support Spurs because they competed, because they were amazing, I support Spurs because they're Spurs. Sacrificing what we are in order to get to what we perceive is a higher level is like the bloke who ditches all his ugly best mates because he wants to be more popular with women. He's a lonely, boring, desperate tool and everyone can see it but him.
I know my thoughts don't represent those of all Spurs fans, and I don't look down on anyone for feeling differently (I really do to be honest). I just see this as one of many examples of how appalling our society is now. It's like saying that I think my mum is fat and ugly and I want a new one with less droopy wangers that way it'll reflect better on me and then I'll be happier. I don't think you're fat and ugly by the way Mummy, Trunky wuvs woo.
If Stratford Hotspur happens, it ends there for me. FC Hotspur of Tottenham or whoever else likely pops up it'll be. You can take your Gareth Bales, VDVs and whoever else and shove them. Along with your reality TV, IKEA furniture, tabloid newspapers, celebrities, Thomas Cook holidays and most of all your Sky Sports.
If all of you told Levy where he could stick his plan, it wouldn't happen, fact. But you won't.
Think on.
Be sure to visit We are N17 for your anti-Stratford fix and latest news. You can also find them on Twitter and Facebook.
Previous Stratford/N17 articles by Spooky:
N17: Home is where the heart is
A nail in the coffin of Stratford?
For some, it's a brutal interrogation...
Reader Comments (559)
I remember when the neighbours opening credits changed. What's happened to phil and Ruth Martin? I'm never watching again, who do these kennedy's think they are? Turns out the kennedy's were more relevant and the show twist-turned toward more epic storylines.
I believe this to be a parallel example.
Unfortunately guys, the writing is on the wall. I will be devastated when Spurs move from the area. I was also devo when Neptune's the chippy shut down on the High Road, but I have found new chips, and Neptunes is now just a happy memory.
The fact that Sticky Knickers can't keep her gob shut in the papers demonstrates that they are now clutching at straws. They are going down this year (again) and the Olympic Commitee aren't going to want a flagship stadium being ruined by Cardiff and Milwall fans in it's first year.
Like I said, I will be gutted when we move, but I have accepted it and are now looking forward to the last few years at the famous old Lane, and then welcoming in a new ear at what will be, lets face it, a fantastic new stadium.
The only consolation I can give myself is that we had to move to WHL in order to grow and progress. We are now at a similar point in our history. Whether we had moved a couple of hundred yards up to the road, or a few miles away, the real shame is the fact either way, that famous old stadium is going to be torn down.
You have put forward a very powerful article. It makes sense. But a question I n eed to ask, one that I haven't seen an answer to is what happens if the stadium is given to the spammers????? What will Levy do then, will he go ahead with the original plan?
Another question, I understand that Ar5ena1 got some community money to help them build their shack. Why haven't we benn offered any?
PL James, it will still be SPURS. Rumour in the club is that the club will be called 'Spurs'.
Managers change, players change, the stadium changes. The kit changes. We play in white and blue as a homage to Preston North End.
Heraclitus said that you never put your foot in the same river twice. It will still be SPURS.
I don't know why exactly, but I am dead against Stratford. The new stadium plans got me geniuinely excited about so many things, apart from the naming rights thing - but that's just the nature of the beast I suppose. You'd think that I'd be all for the Olympic Stadium move then, having a stadium name tied to the (potiental) spectacle celebrating British sport. But I'm not.
I don't know why, and I don't care why. N17 might be a shithole, but it's our shithole.
I was born in North London lived for a while Stratford, but now live on the south coast. I hated Stratford, but wherever you lay your hat and all that.......
spooky remember the big debate over what would you rather; the fa cup or fourth spot.(seem to remember you sat on the fence) it compares to this debate the way forward is stratford , transport links, eurostar, capacity, prestige, and it wont bankrupt us.
also what would be the effect on us if the pamelas take this opportunity
Sorry but it just won't be Spurs or Tottenham to me anymore. All of our tradition, morals and history will have been cut loose for the money.
Take a look at a map. Stratford will have Crossrail, DLR, Central Line, Jubilee Line, London Overground, National Express East Anglia to so many destinations we'll have better transport links than any other UK stadium. The new stadium will be just as approved for WHL but bigger, if you want to sit in it and pretend you're in N17 you can. It will just be a better stadium and a bigger crowd watching our beloved Tottenham Hotspur. A few won't make the move. They will be replaced by thousands who will finally be able to get a seat in a ground with space for a CL club as big as Spurs. £450m for a 56,000 solution at WHL would sap us back into mediocrity.
It'll be beautiful at Stratford.
Same name, same badge, same kit, etc. Same players, same manager, same owner, same fans
It'll be beautiful, a good move. Don't worry about it!
Ham. Yeah, I remember. And I get what you're saying. I wanted the FA Cup, or at least if it was up for grabs because it's something tangible and goes into history as a footnote of worth. And sure, as our club stood up and evolved now, for me, aiming for top spot (even though it's currently beyond us) should be the target.
And I know you're going to say that to do just that, we need to maximise revenue. But you know what? Using WHL as a base, we've still made enough money to get into the top 4. And others around us are debt ridden or tight or spending money crazy, but we are still in the mix of it. You know why?
Because football is played on the pitch. And I'd rather that patch remained in N17.
If...if this is simply the process I'm going through before I come out of the other side with face in hands saying, "you know what, you were right" - then fair enough. If I'm deluded or in denial. I can't see myself changing my opinion. I hope I don't. But I guess if my love for Tottenham is so deep, perhaps that will nullify the pain and I'll detach myself from all the material shit (the emotional attachments) and just care about the football pure and simple, because like I said, that's all that matters.
However - we are back to the beginning again. Tottenham is not just a name. It's the club. And if it was good enough for Bill Nick to live just down the road from it it's good enough for me. We can still reach those giddy heights and aim to be the very best by holding onto our traditions and ethos and philosophy.
But that's just me.
When did the travel become so prominent and issue for the every day fan that would walk over broken glass to watch Spurs at the Lane?
SNAP
While you're at it Spooky, whats with the 'I dont want Arabs taking over the club' comment. I know everyone's a little bit racist, as the song goes, but that's just nasty.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHKIMOgoJoU
Spooky, do you LIVE in Tottenham?? What's it like being surrounded by Gooners for neighbours?
Spooky, do you LIVE in Tottenham?? What's it like being surrounded by Gooners for neighbours?
1. Football is about glory...
2. A club with history and tradition is priceless
3. Would you really swap Arsenal for West Ham?
I did not start supporting Spurs because they were the richest, I don't go to White Hart Lane because it's easy to get to. I went further, I based my life in north London instead of Devon to get closer. No mean feat. No easy journey, for the sake of an easier journey. I know many people who have steered their lives similarly. It's sad, but actually the lengths you go to to follow your club mark the faithful from the fair weather fans.
You want rich? Support Man City. You want constant success? Barcelona. You want easy to get to from Essex? Try Colchester United - nice new ground on the A12.
Tottenham Hotspur FC are not so resource poor as to make delivering the Northumberland Park regen project impossible, we're backed by a billionaire, even if our operational set-up is less reliant on his philanthropic nature than that of other clubs with heavyweight backing. Money shouldn't be the deciding factor here. Yes, such a project is risky but, as someone said, To Dare is To Do.
Or we found a new club.
Racist? Hardly. But I can see how some might misinterpret what I meant. But then again, had I said 'yanks' instead of ''arabs' would you have questioned it? ;)
I just meant the City thing. It's cheap and nasty.
Tom, I hardly live in Tottenham. But I see what you've done there.
How much d'ya reckon it would cost to buy WHL?
Excellent piece. Sums up my feelings exactly.
Spooky -
I know, Americans and Germans are the last acceptable forms of national prejudice in the UK. It used to be alright to have a go at homosexuals too. You're getting squeezed into a corner, mate.
No, I dont mean to have a go, you're a good bloke. Which is why it surprised me when you said it.
Spooky , i love you man, i really do, for me though, and this is the honest truth, its not about the dough, its about progression of my beautiful life long quest, to see spurs win the league and dominate europe , and most most importantly to achieve it with a style that is remembered through the ages, ala 1961. this option undoubtedly gives us a better chance in my mind.
I'm so tired of all these "fans" saying they'll stop supporting Spurs if we move. Why don't you just fuck off anyway? Think outside your little boxes of N17 and realise that until recently people never really knew who I supported when I said "Tottenham", often I actually have to clarify and say "Spurs" before the spark of recognition would dawn. Shame on you Spooky for posting this article on your blog. But you know what? Even though you as webmaster of your blog chose to post something that I didn't like, I'm still going to keep reading it because I'm a loyal FAN of your blog (yes I went there). That is, at least until I can't handle anymore of this Spurs bashing (that's what it is). The bigger picture is this: We'd have a lot less debt. DEBT. MONEY. Do you know how hard it is to live without money? Well I fucking do, and It's not easy. In these financially uncertain times we have to take these things in to consideration. Sure, I'd still pick N17 as the preferred option, but to all you saying that you'd stop supporting Spurs if we moved to the Olympic Stadium, from the bottom of my heart - fuck you.
History has proved again and again that Luddites whither and die.
Progress, Evolve, Adapt, Develop = Survive
You can read History in a book or watch it on a DVD.
Personally I'm looking to the future and if that means the Olympic site with our Stadium on it then so be it.
If we move I wouldnt withdraw my support at all, but it would certainly taint the whole thing for me. Because it would definitely change the club that we love, all the talk of our proposed ground built to maintain the famous lane atmosphere would go out the window. We cant become a disgusting soulless machine like city just to get a bit more fucking money, come on Spurs for fuck sake.
As a sign of protest i think Spooky should kidnap Chirpy again....COYS
My dad grew up in Tottenham, and 1st took me to Spurs in 64/65 when I was 7. 8 shillings a seat, Greaves, Jones and all that. We also went to Arsenal because we had the use of season tickets, and we had Arsenal players living down our street, but there was never any doubt about who I supported.
I don't KNOW how I'd feel if the club moves but I THINK I'd be interested in how the club does but not much more than that. A relief for my wife who suffers my moods when the results are bad.
I'd rather the club doesn't compete with the Chelseas etc if doing that means becoming a different club
Tottenham is an absolute dump. You cant get there you cant get out of there . You cant park you cant get home on a train.
From a family of four generations of Spurs supporters I hope we get Stratford If we cant get Stratford somewhere on the M25 will do . Alan Sugar was proved right when he said supporters are fickle If we move to Stratford some will moan and whine and throw thier season tickets on the pitch , After a year with a 70k seater stadium with restraunts pubs and easy access itll all be forgoten . The rest of us will enjoy the convenience and the fun.
Enjoy your athletics track and your franchise then you suckers. I prefer the vision of an excellent stadium designed for football, with a Kop and a decent pitch with the added bonus of knowing the club is actually doing something for it's host community other than supporting the Brickies and various fast food joints. Now that's what I call progress.
Spooks you still sound conflicted son.
We'd all obviously love Spurs to stay where we are but I will follow them wherever they end up. To say you couldn't support them if they move 6 miles is akin to not loving your mother because she's overweight. As for the example involving your Dad...
Calm down, calm down. You're beginning to sound like Karen Brady.
We're not moving to the Olympic Stadium and never were. If Mr Levy had wanted to he would have agreed to the athletics track to fit in with the "legacy" argument. He did not and our bid was about ripping it out and starting again.
The Olympic Stadium option is not new. It has been there all along. When Mr Levy went through the whole consultation process it was there then. However he spent a fortune finding out exactly what we, the Spurs fans, wanted. The new stadium was designed with all those things in mind. Stay in N17, put the fans close to the pitch, ensure that the accoustics were top notch so that the atmosphere remained, install a "kop" end so that we could enhance that atmosphere.
Mr Levy asked us what we wanted and he knows the answers. Nothing has changed.
However, he had to have a plan B. Any business model requires a plan B. Bids for the Olympic Stadium had to be in before Haringey Council had made their decision on our new stadium and so we submitted our bid as plan B.
The council passed the plans. Job done. Just about everyone else has approved the plans but it is still undecided who is the "prefered bidder" for the Olympic Stadium. Why would Mr Levy want to withdraw our bid at this stage? There is still work to be done. The goons had help with their stadium and Mr Levy (quite rightly) feels that we should have some too. Our bid remains because he is a business man and feels that we still have some leverage in the whole argument while we remain in the mix.
The reality is that 95% of Spurs fans want our new stadium built to our specifications in N17. Mr Levy went to great lengths to find that out but is fully aware of it because of the consultation process. The whole situation remains in debate because the business man in Mr Levy is still trying to get the best deal for our club and that means a similar contribution from the taxpayer that the goons got. Personally, I think he'll get that contribution but even if he doesn't he'll build it and we will come.
COYS
Spot on matie, haringay council can't even fill the pond in pond park on whl so how they would build a new stadium will never happen, trust me spurs sold there soul along time ago, please someone organise a real club that produce local lads and put back into to the community, mobilize yids with a 30 year plan to regain our soul
Tom - appreciate I meant no slander. Wrong choice of words, that's all.
Paxton - Conflicted? No. Fearful, yes. I'm pro-N17 all the way. It's just that if we moved my love for this club would still be strong and I'll end up in seat (standing) somewhere in Stratford. Possibly. And that's what the club might be hoping for - that in the long run, we are so loyal and passionate that we will follow Spurs no matter what. And deal with it and move on, especially if we get plenty of silverware.
The reason this whole debate is fragmented and complex is because we're all different even though we have the one thing in common and people have different associations with the club and different attachments.
I'm actually quite surprised how many people are so flippantly pro-Stratford.
At the risk of repeating myself, if you have supported a team all your life how do you stop overnight ?
Some seem to suggest that because they have moved grounds, it's a totally different club.
But all that has changed is the ground.
Its the same players, same manager, same owners, same kit and same name, unless forced to drop it by the FA.
So I could pretend the team I have supported for 50 years no longer exists but who would I be kidding ?
There have been plenty of times I wished I did not support them if only to ease the pain of a crap performance or shocking result but my support is unconditional and it cannot be turned on and off like a light switch.
And when push comes to shove, I suspect a lot of the dissenters on here will find it is not so easy to stop their support as they think.
Neil - that's the pragmatic viewpoint some of us share and hope it's all a double bluff. It doesn't seem that way at times, but Levy has a touch of genius about him at times and this could be another one of his strategic movements.
Haringey is taking the piss by the way. They have no money and want us to fund the re-development of N17.
Also, re: Stratford. I get there are 'advantages', I get it. But its the way some of our ilk are so dismissive of our current home.
David - it must be the same light switch being flicked off.
The fact that I've stated, clearly, that my support would be attached to 'FC Hotspur of Tottenham' (as I'm calling them) shows you that my support wouldn't disappear. To me, if we leave Tottenham, lose the name Tottenham Hotspur then the club I've supported all of my life has ceased to exist.
Follow the money and enjoy the shallow glory and I'll enjoy watching Tottenham be shit again, but at least it'll still be Tottenham.
Also if this happens, maybe we'll finally sign Lionel Morgan
Spooky
Haringey are in no position to help. Levy wants the same help from Central Government that our neighbours got but in these difficult times it will not be easy.
All credit to the man for pushing it to the limit though, from my point of view.
I have every faith that he will see through his original plan and am very confident that the Olympic Stadium remains a bargaining tool.
We won't leave N17. And all these people in support of leaving will turn around and state how happy they are to stay put but would not have minded had we left. The hypocrites.
Spurs enjoy the freeky rollercoaster because we will crash and burn at some point. I don't even want to win the league in stratford!!! Shoes up for a pitch invasion/ protest very soon, maybe near Mr Beckham so whole world can see were sellouts, not coys
I support Tottenham Hotspur Football Club , not a stadium . I 've been going since my dad took me in 1972-3 season , been a season ticket holder for 23 years. I've followed them everywhere .and will continue to support them WHEREVER they play. To stay exactly where we are now = going backwards ,losing our best players due to financial constraints, Northumberland Project = £450m . Scumirates cost approx. £330m before various subsidies/grants etc , and circa £240m net..... and still they wobbled very seriously financially. IMO WE WILL GO BUST IF WE SPEND £450M. Stratford will cost less than half of that to rebuild because the infrastructure is all there,and we dont have to bung Haringey Council tens of millions in section 106's. It is 6 miles from WHL , 8-9 mins on a train from Northumberland Park station. When you take the emotion out of the equation it is the ONLY viable option we have to expand , to develop into a club that ,just maybe ,will win the title and European trophies again, and it's 50 and 27 years respectively since we've done that.For those of you that harp on about money isn't that important, we smashed the transfer record to bring Jimmy Greaves back from Italy, because we were one of the wealthiest clubs,and he helped make us the first English club to win a European trophy. We smashed the transfer record to buy Gazza from Newcastle. Sadly it was ,is ,and will always be about money because it is professional sport/business, and he who consistently has most will always be at the top table of football. We are miles behind Arsenal and Chelsea in terms of turnover/revenues, only a bigger ground can close that gap long term. "We all follow the Tottenham" ...... ANYWHERE .The fantasy is N17 the reality is Stratford.
Yeah, I know they are in no position. They hardly have the money to fork out for unemployment and other social headaches let alone redevelop the ground. But I think it's naive to believe that the club (and Levy) did not complete detailed forecast work and feasibility studies.
All this extra money that's been stuck on top of the original proposed outlay. Have a word.
North London is ours, North London is ours, fuck off to Stratford, North London is ours.
Local council and corruption. They want us to stay in N17, they want us to redevelop the ground and surround location but they still want us to fork out countless bungs.
Haringey are the cunts that will ruin this for us in the end. Mark my words.
SPOOKY - Wish I could find that switch for the next mega defeat, if only to ease the pain for a few days.
Close to 100 comments in a few hours. Is this a record ?
What a fantastic article and a true representation of real yids.
FC HOTSPUR OF TOTTENHAM would form if levy kills the club and thats where the real spurs will go. judging by the arguments raised by pro stratford people, shfc will have some really scum like fans and it wont just be the club emulating woolich - their fans would be scum too.
We have to start realising that most pro straford posters on here and other sites are arsenal fans hoping to be the new kings of north london and or are people posting on behalf of levy and this pr guru/cunt that the club has recently employed - there's no doubt they would get on sites like this and put names like thfcfan and write a load of bollocks.
i mean how can you defend the indefensible?
how can a club call itself tottenham and play in stratford!?!?!?!? its ridiculous regardless of whether we keep the name or not is irrelevent to us. either way its a joke - a team called tottenham playing in the east end and stratford? hello? or we drop the name, either way its a killing and levy deserves the death penalty if he does it.
North London is ours, North London is ours, fuck off to Stratford, North London is ours.
Jan 8, 2011 at 9:58 PM | Gooner
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Based on:
North London is our, North London is ours, fuck off back to Woolwich, North London is ours
The scummer makes a good point. Do you pro stratford fans place the essence of THFC above and beyond money or value progression and more revenue important even if it devalues rivalries and history?
Fran - your a mixed up person mate who really should leave the country. go to switzerland and see a doctor - he might have a magic injection that can really help you.
Also we have a gooner on here even though this wouldnt be on there NEWSNOW. it shows they are here posting as spurs fans on occassion doing there part to quell the real spurs amongst us.
It would be a dream for them to see us go to stratford and that says it all.
Gooners and this dickhead pr guru mr lee - you WONT win this one cos unlike you lot killing woolich fc in 1913 WE unlike you WILL not stand for levy killing tottenham.
WE are real fans and not scum like the gooner bastards who can all go and fucking burn.