Making excuses for JJ and Hudd
Thursday, July 9, 2009 at 11:33AM Tom Huddlestone is looking fit. Tight physique, strong powerful legs. It's enough to make my inner-Brüno smash his way through the closet door and reaching for his kugelsack. Ooh.
But alas, we said the same thing last season when Tommy was snapped with the lads, enjoying a swim and lark out in the sea during some frolicsome pre-season antics. It's a fallacy that he's fat. He's a big lad with a round face. He's had moments when he's over-done the mayo and ketchup and piled on some extra pounds.
But when he's in this type of shape (the slim type), there is no arguing he looks the part. Shame looking part isn't enough. And who am I kidding? He might not be fat in the way some of our fans in the Park Lane are, but he's far too big to be able to turn his vision and technique into something consistent and decimating.
Hudd's main problem is agility. He's not mobile enough. His stamina is questionable. He lacks any real acceleration. You know the drill. It's the same textbook excuses that get repeated with each passing year. Against weaker sides he excels, but doesn't do it often enough against the bigger sides (although there was one afternoon against Chelsea where he put in a superb shift). There is something about Tom that doesn't allow us to easily part with him. His passing is exceptional. He has a cracking shot on him. Whether he is a victim of his own build (too big to be a central midfield with any real clout) or whether hard work in the gym and on the training ground can aid him to be more involved in the tussles (rather than get passed by) continue to remain unanswered. With Zoko gone and Spurs needing to sign another CM (for backup at the very least), I can see us holding onto Hudd for another season - but when does one make a decision that the answers we are looking for will never be forthcoming?
In this day and age, CM's are far more versatile and adaptable. They can do a bit of everything. As discussed several times before - he isn't good enough for us to build the team around him and compensate for his deficiencies. But if you're planning to build a team around someone - they should not have deficiencies. Having him sit in the middle of the park with Palacios protecting him wouldn't work - because one player should not have to do the work of two. Modric might well play alongside Wilson in the middle, and even though he's a lickle man, he can handle himself just fine. You have to be qualities that are more than just promises.
Talking of playing well against lesser opposition. Jermaine Jenas is still with us. 26 years of age now. And we'll still waiting for him to defeat his demons. You know. The ones that gag and handcuff his confidence to the bed. The difference between being a decent player and an exceptional player is all in the mind. The great JJ divide is that everyone within the game rate him highly, and the fans in the stands don't. But we persevere. We persist. He's Zokorish in the sense that he's a great athlete. But having a great engine means nothing if you fail to make the trip from one stop to the next. The ride becomes redundant. A wasted journey.
Are we too loyally? Too emotionally attached? Should we be a little more brutal with decision making? In both JJ and Hudd, we have two players that promise so much but fail to deliver consistently enough to warrant a true first team place (although JJ has for a long time cemented his role in the side, much to the confusion of many).
Ironically, when JJ doesn't play - we appear to miss his presence. He must do something then? Something understated to the virgin eyes of the average fan, but imperative to the experienced manager barking orders from his technical box. Yet as much as I want to see what several managers (at national and international level) see, I fail each time. Jenas doesn't have a bit if everything, he just desperately has a go at everything. He tries to defend and he attempts to get involved in a creative manner, but running around the pitch endlessly doesn't equate to a defensive midfielder or an attacking one. He's way too apologetic with his dithering and his much maligned confidence has held him back since the days he swam around in the goldfish bowl. We cling onto hope because now and again he does something special and we see that as some form of preview for what he might be able to achieve every given Saturday.
And with Modric and Palacios now part of the furniture, players of the ilk of Jenas and Tommy suddenly look far more reminiscent of luxury players that need to be accommodated rather than players who can adapt, take the game by the scruff of the neck and lead by example. Players that are for the best part, average most of the time and exceptional on occasion. This has been easily illustrated as fact when you watch the likes of Wilson and Luka play.
Maybe our continued mistake is waiting for the question to be answered, when what we should be doing is replacing the question with a brand new one. The type that comes with a brand new signing.
Reader Comments (43)
I'd sell both of them for the very reasons given: Neither are consistent or good enough. They lack the real backbone and quality that would make either of them Top 4 class. I know,we are not top 4, and outside of the top 4 both are decent squad players to have, but neither can elevate us to better things.
I don't buy the argument about Hudd's mobility. Xavi Alonso plies his trade as a passer, because he has decent protection around him in the form of Mascherano and Gerrard.
With Palacios, I think Huddlestone wouldn't need to sprint around to hurt teams - just like Alonso or Pirlo.
You can't make your mind up on either can you spooky? Neither can I mate. JJ frustrates the fuck out of me every time he plays. I think all the running around masks the fact that he has not clear direction. There is still something likeable about him and I can't imagine him playing in anything but a Spurs shirt. Which probably says a lot about us and the types of players we attract.
Huddlestone. If he had pace he'd be a dead cert for the first team.
You say we need another CM...
Jenas, O'Hara, Thudd, Modric and Sgt Wilson (others could fill holes King, Corluka, Keane) not enough for you?
Personally I'd be happy for the first two on that list to go in which case.. Yes we do need a back up CM but I'd rather see a big purchase on LM to allow Modric and Wilson boss the middle of the park with Thudd and someone else in reserve.
Sean - the thing is the players you mention have intelligence and awareness of their surroundings and know where to be. By mobility, its more than just the physical nature of running but knowing where to position yourself. I think Huddlestone lacks this quality in abundance. He is young mind, so he might learn to adapt and compensate for his weakness.
Actually would it be possible to meld Thudd and O'Hara and Jenas together.
That would be one hell of a player and we could sell the leftovers (Thudds manuoverability, Jenas' vision and O'hara's skill and ability) to pompey or Sunderland for £8.5M
We will lose Hudd and pay the price. It is up to the coaching staff to get the best out of him. Hudd is still young yet his passing is the best at the club, and he has an incredible shot.
West Ham got rid of Lampard and look what he became.
Huddlestone will be a top player, I just hope its at Spurs.
JJ we should cash in on.
You are wrong. You tend to build a team a player to make the most of their skills and hide their deficiencies.
Huddlestone would work perfectly in a 451/433 where Wilson sits behind and JJ does the box to box thing. Thudd can then control the midfield without excessive defensive requirements and where he can also get to the edge of the opposition area and bring his shooting in to play. If he has too many defensive responsibilities, he does not get forward enough and is less able to control the game from the middle, he needs to be given freedom.
Sadly our striker options do not allow such a formation
Must say you are very rarely wrong Spooky.
Problem with this whole scenario is that just as your ready to give up on them and sell them on to Villa, Sunderland, Fulham etc. they pull something special out the bag and we all think that finally they are coming good, only to prove us wrong again a week later.
I almost get the same feeling with Keane at times but unlike these two would never expect Keane at 28 years old to improve beyond his current (decent) level.
Jenas actually hates me. When we lost to Stoke at Britannia I gave him some serious bother down at the touchline and a couple of months back I saw him out in London. He's marrying my cousin's closest friend now so I thought I'd congragulate him at which point he said 'I remember you, your the prick that gave me stick at Stoke'.
Almost felt bad. Almost.
Thudd needs Angry, like JJ needs more toast.
i think the 4-3-3 shout is a good one. Hudd would work perfectly in that. If you had a midfield of Hudd, Wilson/O'hara, Jenas, you could then have lennon, keane and defoe playing up front and going out wide. But we shouldn't buy or sell players based on how they can fit into certain formations, we should do it on their abilty and how they can make a difference in certain games.
You are right that against the big teams Hudd stuggles because of his awareness. But against the smaller teams (the ones where we so often fail to close out games) he is awesome. He has time and space on the ball and can pick his pass.
We shouldnt build a team around anyone, we should have an adaptable squad that can play against different types of opposistion. And players like Hudd, Jenas, Dos Santos, etc...are players that we need to hang onto if we want to even think about challenging the top 4.
I am so glad we haven't signed anyone yet. It is boring, but at least it isn't the usual merry go round. We need 3 top international players who can hit the ground running. Then we stand a chance of building a team and more importantly, a squad.
I see the Spurs seals are out in force. You know the ones I mean, clapping and yelping mindlessly at another Hollywood ball from the Hudd. Forgetting the fact that another midfielder had just skipped past him as if he wasnt there.
The type that bemoans Jenas for not scoring more goals when he is having to chase back and clear up Thudds mess.
Unfortunatly people are not clever enough to even notice JJs contribution top the team, yet they will pick up every misplaced pass.
They love a good 40 yard pass though.
SSSSHHHHOOOOOOOTTTTTTTTT!!!!
Idiots.
Bravo Spooky,
You've squarely hit the nail bang on the head with this one.
Trueyid, I too dealt out some very colourful language down in the corner at the end of that game in the hell hole that goes buy the name of 'Stoke'. Good work.
"JJ we should cash in on."
No one wants him, there is no rush by any team, to sign him.
Those that stick up for him are just far too happy to wallow the in mediocrity, happy to play play Where's Wally, oh there he is hiding behind their number 4.
"No one wants him, there is no rush by any team, to sign him."
The fact that Mourinho has shown an interest at Inter? Does that not mean anything to you?
We will be lucky to dispatch Hundredstone to a Championship side.
It's an interesting and clearly devisive issue. For me Hudd has the one thing that the rest don't have, a combination of vision and a range of passing we haven't seen since Carrick left. For me I think Hudd could sit well alongside Wilson for these two very reasons. Yes he needs to work on the mobility side, but his passing can be the incisive defence splitting pass that was lacking in so many games last season when we dominated possession but couldn't make that final ball. He has a couple of things that are more difficult to train into players than simple atheletic ability.
For me Hudd's usefulness deteriorates when we don't have the majority of possession, so for me he's a starter against teams we can dominate, and he'll chip in twith a 'Thudd Scud' a couple of times a season as well. I think he's a keeper and will improve over the next two years.
JJ on the other hand for 90% fo the time appears to be directionless whilst looking busy and industrious, bit like a bee without the added benefit of producing something useful with any sort of regularity. He's 'in his prime' so if this is as good as it gets then it may welll be time to move him on, I actually think he would do better in the Italian League, where his defficiencies will be less exposed.
Just my opinion.
hud and jj arent great players..its true but i think sometimes the gaffer can do things in a game to change the formation or make a couple of smart subs..and i think sometimes our frustration with the players is down to the gaffer after all hr is the only one who can change things on the pitch..unless we want to see mr levy sitting next to hr telling him what to do hahaha...blimey.....but honestly if u woz spurs new manger right now would u be happy with the squad? its not 2 shabby a squad is it?and we got some promising young players aint we? so coys and for gawds sake hr try a little bit of the unknown...
i m glad that i m not the only one that can appreciate JJ as a player , but unfortunately at his age the time has come to give back to back superb performances and lead the team (the lad got loads of skill)... he just seems to be so very fragile mentally - i got to go with L-O-N on this one ...
Got to love the game of football , we are all watching the same in team in the same games (be it from a different angle of the grounds or on tv for the unlucky ones) , whether you rate the hudd or dont has to do with what aspect of the game is dear to you , i guess.
But fortunately we still have some players we all rate ... modric for one
L-O-N...
Exactly Jenas gives us a great deal to the club in CM. No one appreciates the amout of tackles and mileage he puts in. He and Palacios looked to be forming a solid partnership at the end of the seasn.
Huddlestone is just wasting his and our time at the club. He may well become a top player (which I hope he does from an England point of view) he wont do this at spurs, he is stagnating.
The longer he stays the lower his value will go down as he will no longer be a average player with decent potential, just an average player.
Correct me if I'm wrong but at Derby Hudd played as a Centre-Half?
I know he's played there a few times for Spurs (FA Cup defeat against the Mancs springs to mind) but he rarely partners an established player like Woody or Ledders.
What about trying him there or as a "sweeper" in a 3-5-2?
You say we need another CM...
Jenas, O'Hara, Thudd, Modric and Sgt Wilson (others could fill holes King, Corluka, Keane) not enough for you?
Jul 9, 2009 at 12:02 PM | OxSpurs
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We need cover for Wilson and if Modric remains out on the left we need an upgrade on what we have already (JJ or Hudd).
I dont think Huddlestone will ever be a top player, he is more Danny Murphy than Michael Carrick. I could see him take that exact career path - moving slowly downwards from clubs like Villa to West Ham, starting well before slipping, before eventually finding his level and becoming integral to a side like Hull (whose fans would call fruitlessly for an england call up). Toms problem is he needs a game to fall into place for him and if it doesnt he is capable of being 100% completely ineffective. As such he is great to have around to introduce when a game opens up or the opposition are weak, but I dont think he can ever be more than an outstanding squad man.
The hope is Modric will take his rightful place as our midfield talisman and attack can become our first form of defence (rather than the endless sprinting of the Zokora era), but Jenas should be kept around should Luka fail to make the transistion from the relatively calm waters out on the wing to the bustle of central midfield.
Jenas. new partnership in mdfield with palacios,has the abilty to change games when dominant (arsenal 3rd goal emirates).....needs to move up a notch this year..improve consitency....reasons why does he drifts in and out of games ?
the Hudd..great passer ............no tomato sauce
if you actually think about it this is a very talented side ....
Spurs fans who criticise Jenas frustrate the hell out of me. You say he plays well against lesser oppositon, but who regularly scores against the top four from our midfield? Him. Infact he has probably scored more goals against the top four sides in the last four years than any of our strikers. The reason why managers love him and we miss him when he doesn't play is because he sets the tone and speed of our team. Like you say, he defends and attacks, regularly throws himself infront of the ball and is involved in an unbelievable number of our goals - just watch this season's goals DVD. The only criticism you can throw at him is that he does not regularly get 10 to 12 league goals a season, but then niether do our strikers! The only central midfielders that do this season in, season out are Lampard and Gerrard. Let's hope we aren't criticising Modric for a lack of goals next season eh? Or will he be exempt...
newest rumours to replace zokora : Sissoko and Capoue from Toulouse FC... both very young and talented players , question remains if we would not prefer some more experienced defensive mids ...
You cant dispute Modrics ability though can you? It's crystal clear for all to see.
The very fact that people can't agree on JJ proves that what he does is either far too understated for us cavemen supporters to understand or he is frustratingly inconsistent and never looks to strengthen the areas he is weak in. I can Moddle improving with each passing season until he signs for Utd for £35M, but Jenas? I don't think he's ever going to change - unless he suddenly comes into possession of the 'c**t' gene that allows the likes of Lampard and Gerrard to boss games.
Look, he does well in pockets. I've said that and said it many many times over the years - which is why I've sort of always backed him and hoped he progressed. But he hasn't. Against the lesser clubs, he really can dominate a game. Against the bigger clubs, he might pop up and score, but he's left wanting far too often (and by bigger clubs, I mean clubs that are not Derby).
I like JJ. I'm happy when he scores and when he plays well, because he sticks it to the critics, but the fact is he never looks like really pushing himself beyond that required level.
Obviously, I'll be crying into my coco-pops if he left and Harry signed Reo-Coker. You can came back and laugh at me when that happens.
form is form......ask any trainer......subject to how you manage the timing ....support and impact
fortunately it looks like THFC have got the message.....without panic buying circus clowns with a couple of sea lions thrown in.....jaunde ramos flying circus
Interesting that Hayes compares Hudd to more of a Danny Murphy type Player. Danny was one of three players instrumental to Fulham finishing in their highest position. Schwarzer was exceptional, Hangeland was the bargain of the season, but Murphy was their leader on the pitch and pulled the strings in midfield, often when up against other alleged heavywieghts. I know a few Fulham fans (it helps with the moral high ground some times) who would have had Murphy as their player of the season last year. Especially when you consider the limitations of their front line (eg Zamora and Johnson) who are a 'bit one dimensional' in the same way that water is 'a bit wet'.
You don't necessarily have to be mobile if you're in the right position, and that can be taught to someone who has the right vision. In two years time Hudd will be first choice, I just hope he is patient enough. Even Capello sees him as one of the players to take over from Terry and Lampard in the future! Although he hasn't been quoted on JJ yet, so fingers crossed for next summer for him then (!)
Spooky I think I can summarise the JJ thing that I know a few feel:
On his day he can be influential and can score / make surging runs/ track back, however he doesn't do that week in week out. If we're lucky its one game in every four, if unlucky it's one in ten. - Good player but inconsistent, and on a bad day seems to think that he can make up for being incosistent by simply 'covering every blade of grass' as it makes for a great montage or watching the game at 4x speed, but what it doesn't do is make him effective.
Huddlestone has unbelievable talent. If we sell him, we lose in the long run. Give him a good run of games next to Palacios and see how he does against all types of sides. Everyone here talks like hes a dumb stone out on the pitch, but he seems to hold his own in all the games we play. Hes the only person besides Modric thats capable of opening a stubborn defense up. Remember his beautiful lobbed through ball to Defoe? Yea, that was something that nobody else on our team can do.
We have to rely on Redknapp having the clout as a manager to fit in Huddlestone. I can't see him succeeding. Not because of Tommy but because, tactically, I don't think HR is clever enough take advantage.
I'm concerned that Spooky almost considered grabbing Huddlestones kugelsack.
ronaldo didnt do it against the 'big' sides. maybe united shouldnt have made him their main man. maybe fletcher is the player who's actually worth 80million, as he's the most consistent performer in the big games.
i'd rather keep hudd as a flat track bully so long as it meant we gained points against the shitter teams. ie. play the team that best suits us depending on the opposition.
hudd doesnt strike me as the brightest spark, but his awareness isn't going to develop while sitting on the bench, he needs some playing time.
we'd massively regret selling him.
I BET FERGUSON COULD TURN THE BOTH OF THEM INTO WORLD CLASS PLAYERS. THEY BOTH HAVE THE POTENTIAL I JUST FEEL (AS WITH SPURS FOR SO LONG) THAT THEY HAVE NOT BEEN BROUGHT ON PROPPERLY, NOT NURTURED WELL ENOUGH. AND THAT IF YUO ASK ME GOES FOR MOST OF THE SPURS TEAM.
gra , Roanldo gaurantees you over 20 goals a season mate. LON put it poetically " opposition goes by him like he's not there" , maybe Harry should go out on loan to UTD to learn a thing or two from ferguson
Mod and Wilson in the middle is a world class partnership which surely cant fail! Azza on the right... and joe bloggs on the left. Hudd and JJ will be great squad players. keep em.
Spurs are on the cusp of something, have been for about 5 seasons now... but this is how close we get then wham! sell a player or two and right bad to square 1. The almost team. I cant help but think where we would be with Carrick and Berba still playing... this time tho I just think were only missing a left sided player to balance the team out. Dont have to be world class either. Downing would do although I dont really rate him. I can also see us fucking everything up by signing Bellamy, Carew?? Crouch or some other undesirable shit...
For me it could go either way but we are close... just hope its not too late after City spending power now... we will see.
spooky , you can sleep a bit more easily cause i just read that pennant is going to spain ...
Thank god for that.
IF we get so much as near to signing Bellamy, I will be found in the corner of a padded cell banging my head aginst a wall repeating 'why, oh, why, oh, why....' and my Lillywhite membership card will be found the next time Levy goes for a colonic irrigation.
i d go ahead and order a straigtjacket if i were you cause it seems to be a very realistic rumour ... i m going on a pilgrimage to santiago di compostela later on just to ask for a divine intervention , i m not asking for anything fancy , just a crazy russian clubowner somewhere that is madly in love with bellamy and determined to overbid anything we offer the money pool called Man city ...
'realistic rumour' that's just a tiny bit 'american intelligence' for me. Thankfully, the one thing Bellamy isn't is a 'target man' who can 'hold up play'. The only way I can see 'arry going for Bellamy is if we sell Keane first for some reason.......oh nuts, the day gets worse some times when you start to think things through.
Now where did I put that straightjacket?
"Danny was one of three players instrumental to Fulham finishing in their highest position"
A player we dumped because Jenas had to play every game. Can't remember Murphy hiding as well as Jenas did last season.
As for the Mourinho link, did he buy him, has he made an offer or did he just pick him for a fantasy team in a paper.
Speaking of Fulham - and I know, it's slightly off topic but bear with me - I live on the Gold Coast, where Fulham just happened to lose 2-1 to our local A-League side...I was at the game, and I've got to say Just how the fuck did they take 4 points from us? Gold Coast completely bossed it in the second half, while the front half was fairly even...But if they play anything like they did on Wednesday night this coming season - or even in Europe - they will be up shit creek in a barbed wire canoe. Which is surely our gain. But Danny Murphy...scored a pearler of a free kick, but other than that he didn't exactly boss the game...another side-note: Hengerland wasn't there - and with their first European game only 2 weeks away maybe he's not going to be signing a new contract...not with fulham anyway...sorry for the fulham dribble, just thought you guys mught find it as funny as I do (and as frustrating) that this team who took 4 points off us - which is what really cost us seventh - are so piss poor and never looked like beating a brand new A League team that hasn't even played a competitive match yet. Thoughts?