Smile, because it will happen
Tuesday, August 2, 2011 at 10:15AM It's easy to lose yourself in the midst of satire and self deprecation, shrugging despondently at yet another downplayed soundbite from Harry Redknapp already writing off our chances of a top four finish with ample self preservational rhetoric about how impossible it is to compete with the Man City's of this world. As you attempt to cover your ears the echoes of the earlier Kevin Bond bombshell bounces off the walls as a look of disdain collapses your face at the thought that the club are willing to sell Luka Modic because Luka Modric does in fact have an acceptable selling valuation even though the chairman had banged the drums to the beat of 'no chance in hell'.
To compound matters furthers, Mirko Vucinic was never really interested in leaving Italy, preferring an Old Lady rather than a big blue and white cock. It's your fetish Mirko, whatever turns you on. Juan Mata was a bid too far, the player with eyes only for Champions League football. But at least the ambition is there. Elsewhere, people laugh about Joey Barton being made available on a free and conversations implode with 'what ifs' whilst they pollute the social networks and make their obvious journey to Sky Sports News.
We've still not sold Robbie Keane or Alan Hutton. Whilst the rumours that Jermaine Jenas has in his possession photos of a naked Daniel Levy swimming in a hot-tub of melted cream cheese bagels with Chirpy, carries more weight by the day. Elsewhere the most active of the In the Know community 'insiders and those privy to inside information' continue to only provide us with commentary based on pragmatic guess-work and ambiguity aided by the colours of the rainbow.
Blue and yellow says the Phantom of the Lane. As one esteemed friend pointed out, blue + yellow = green. Green is the colour of grass. Football is played on grass, therefore...hold onto ya hats...we're going to sign a footballer! w00t!
Practically every single ITK has mentioned practically every single known target so well done in advance for the sixteen of you that called our first major signing of the summer months back.
If I said we're about to sign Rossi, or Llorente or even ex-gooner Adebayor - does that make me ITK? Does it? Or does it simply make me someone who just reads a lot. What's that? Rossi is no longer on the transfer list? Okay then, stick him in the bin and promote Benzema in his place.
But whilst we can all easily run away with the doom and gloom let's remind ourselves of a few things and allow that sun to shine back in our lives.
We could have finished top four last season, the margin of difference between success and failure was as thin as a strand of hair. Even with our misfiring misfits up front and lack of general formational cohesiveness we failed because we allowed ourselves to fail. We disappointed because we could have and should have been far better over the course of the season. We hardly lose at home but didn't win enough to deserve Champions League for a second successive season. It hurts because if you dare to think of what the consequences might have been for the likes of the big bad scary monster from Eastlands, it warms the cockels. But every glitch we hiccuped is hardly of epic proportions, and not insurmountable if we attempt to correct them and better ourselves.
We still have Dawson, BAE, Huddlestone, Sandro, Bale, Lennon, van der Vaart...hey, even Luka Modric. You know Luka - the meek mulleted kid who never handed in a transfer request who might yet quietly fall back in love with us when the reality of a closed transfer window slaps him across the face. Hey Luka, don't be forgetting that gentleman's agreement you signed with pen and signature.
And as for the top end of the side - it's the area that we must improve without doubt. There's the clue. Without doubt. So light up a cigar, kick back, stick a smile on it and relax. It might seem others are progressing at a faster pace than us but let's remember we finished 4th and then 5th with Redknapp in charge. And he's meant to not have a clue. When we sign our forward we might just fluke another top four placement. Smile, because it will happen so you might as well be wearing the right face for the occasion.
Cometh the Spurs.
If the forward is Zamora obviously discount everything I've just written.
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Reader Comments (93)
There is an altruism in football that 'sometimes you don't have to be a good manager, just a lucky manager'.
Well harry has certainly ridden his luck, and to be fair my only hope is that he has another 10 months worth left in him, because otherwise it's all going to go to rat shit. He can then use his bad luck on the national team, where it won't make the blindest bit of difference.
Don't hate the guy,just never saw him as the long term solution. This season for me is written off already as one of 'stasis', nothing great, nothing terrible, just mediocrity, like the good old days.
It's all about next season, if you can bear to wait that long ;)
btw, nice work ziege.
I cannot believe Redknapp is still in charge, based on this new advertisement bullshit, his column in the Sun and some of the things he has said to the press, which is the opposite to what his chairman is saying. Okay Tottenham need to pay more to attract players, but the last club that let Harry have his way in that department went under. I want him out, he reminds me in George Graham or Terry Venables. He thinks he knows more than his chairman and is old school. England will rue the day he signs on the dotted. He was responsible fo us qualifing for the CL last season, but then he allowed us to slip back into mediocrity. Paul F you might have wet yourself at Eastlands when Crouch scored, but I felt like wetting myself at home against Wigan, when (after 'Young Boys') we collapsed like a team from the marshes on a Sunday. Harry is trying to bully his chairman right now and I accuse him of prompting the Bond statement, as they were travelling together during that disgraceful interview. Mr Levy wasn't long in making Bond retract what he said. Redknapp needs to be kept in check with the media, he should stick to matters he is employed to do and that is motivate and coach the first team to win games and qualify for the CL, not throw 14 points away to teams we should be beating.
Cookiebun, did you hear "that disgraceful interview"?
Yeah, I did. Alan Brazil and his sidekick should've been stopped in mid-stream for putting words in Bond's mouth and the interview terminated. That's why I believe the interview was disgraceful and with a dishonest motive. Tottenham Management have to be smart enough, not get drawn into statements and be alert for the Media's method of looking for a specific answer by the way they ask the question. Neither Harry or Bond have the nouce to control interviews. Why, do you think it was an honest interview, with no attempt made to trip Bond up!!
Totally agree, this summer has seen the media at it's worst...
Looks like Harry will be on his way before the end of the season then reading all the negative posts about him.
He must be clearly incompetent and with many other teams in the Prem strenghthening their squads and the difficult start we have to the season having to play those master tacticians of Everton, Utd and City without Sandro and possibly no strikers again it could be another 2 points from 8 games scenario at which point we all know what happens.
So Harry haters you may not have to wait long.
I'm sure Levy will have a short-list of replacements lined-up as he always does but he must be disappointed that Allardyce has already been taken.
Seriously, with all the conjecture / speculation / assumptions as to what Harry's motives are and how he will ruin Spurs - I feel like I'm reading one of the red-tops, perusing through this comments section.
Spooky calls for optimism, the response from some of you. Is 'NO! WE'RE DOOMED. AND IT'S ALL HARRY'S / LEVY'S / SPOOKY'S FAULT'.
That said, I agree with some of the other points made (i.e. the ones that don't accuse Harry of single-handedly trying to ruin us). Levy's brinkmanship season upon season is tiresome. Man City have exacerbated the financial expectations of many players within the Prem or hoping to come to the Prem. Certain sections of the media do have destructive agendas, and sometimes try to make news off their own back.
The debate regarding Jenas is irrelevant. He hardly touched the first team last season, and only did so when injuries called for his contribution. A few of his appearances were a lot more promising than they have been in previous seasons, but there was signs of the old Jenas, who is next to useless. Let's face it, his time has passed and has been eclipsed by Huddlestone, Sandro, Modric, Palacios and even Kranjcar
Am I probably one of the only people commenting here that actually rates Crouch and that he provides a good foil for the likes of van Der Vaart? Yes he is incredibly wasteful, but the same could have been said of Pavlyuchenko and Defoe last season. He's not that bad... really.
I'm frankly sick of speculating as to who we will sign / won't sign - when we sign someone - it will turn up on the official site, right? ITKs to me are attention seekers that love the apparent glory that comes with spouting shite / poems / haikus under geeky internet monikers. People bang on like they're sick to the back teeth of how things are run at Spurs. If you hate it so damn much - then walk away? All you armchair managers / FM enthusiasts - give up - you're never going to get offered that hallowed position at Spurs.
NO club is perfect, especially not in this league, far from it. With the money involved, the media the way it is, and the ridiculous expectations of the fans - there is always bound to be issues.
I mean by all means moan - but do you have to get so damn angry / venomous? It is, after all, only a game (!). Enjoy the rollercoaster
We were never going down when he came. But he stopped the rot straight away...the 2-0 against Bolton, followed by the epic 4-4 at the DeathStar. Back to basics and woke a few little boys out of their apathy or responsibility for and to our club.
I don't particularly warm to him, but he has changed a fair few things....Remember the subs bench wrapped in fucking blankets? Telling Pav through a translator to 'Fucking run around a bit'. Wins away at Liverpool, Arsenal...never say die attitude in the CL.
OK, so it isn't ALL down to him, it's those that pull on the famous shirt. But that famous shirt obviously meant very little before he came (probably still does to him) and our well paid staff hid behind Ramos' failures.
Regarding the 'idiot' comment, it solely referred AFAIK to those talksport listeners who ring up to have a pop "Probably never been to a game in their lives...Danny"....that's not to say he doesn't irk the fuck out of me with such gems as 'They've had nothing but sweeteners since I arrived'....and the more recent 'As good as it gets' (sic) but I've come to the conclusion that a)He's off soon anyway and b) We're using him as much as he's using us.
Taking the emotive aspect out of it, we've improved under him, I don't think any sane yiddo can deny that.
Excellent article.
It is difficult to know where things went wrong but it was clear last summer that we needed a new striker - someone with a some presence up front and 20 goals a season. We were in an ideal situation - on the cusp of being in the Champions League for the first time and with the bargaining power to therefore be attracting the right type of player. This was a glorious opportunity missed. I know we cannot match the salaries of the money-rich clubs but surely there were strikers who could have improved our goal ration.
In January another opportunity was missed and all we read are negative reports from our manager on how we need to sell before we buy, how we are not a top 4 side etc etc.
Having said which every supporter needs to get behind our team because we are not that short of being able to challenge for that 4th place slot - we just need some inspiration up front.
As far as the younger players are concerned there has to be a reason why the likes of Bostock have not been blooded. The likes of Rose and Walker are now firm squad members so where a youngster is not in the squad we have to realise that perhaps he is not good enough yet. Having said which I would love to see Harry Kane given a chance. We do have deadwood but so do most clubs and I am sure that some more activity in the transfer market as the window draws to an end will see some of them move on.
As for Modric - well I think we should make a stand and reject every approach from Chelsea. If we give in then a year from now it will be Bale and Van der Vaart. What we do need are positive and encouraging words from our Manager and Chairman and not the silence and negativity we constantly hear from Harry.
So Levy - get at least one class striker - show us that the club has ambition and lets well and truly get behind the team. Harry if you cannot say positive things then keep quiet and Modric the supporters love you so show some loyalty in return.
To be fair, as much as some of his comments irritate the shit out of me, i don't care what he says to the press nor us fans, it's what he says on the Training pitch and in the dressing room that counts... just ignore him, take what he says with a pinch of salt.
No matter what you say, Arry has delivered and we have improved under him, to sack him now would be reckless and counter-productive. Anyway, what reasoning do the Arry Aters have to sack him?
What, because we didn't finish in the top 4? That's a very dangerous precedent to set and a laughable reasoning. Yes we should've, could've, would've... all pointless discussions, we didn't, we learn from it, we move on and continue to develop and improve.
Or perhaps we should sack him cos he didn't sign a striker last summer or Jan? Not necessarily his fault now is it, and it isn't his fault that Crouch, Defoe and Pav didn't deliver the goods against the many bottom tier sides.
Maybe we should sack him due to his incessant comments to the press, loose lips sink ships and all that? As painful as some of his statements are they're hardly justification to sack him.
Oh just sack him cos he's leaving anyway? What sack him cos he "might" leave to take the England job and even if he does leave i can guarantee you that the team and club will be in a far stronger position then when he started and no matter what all you doom and gloom mongers say, this season we will get better.
However the Arry Out brigade will have you believe that everything positive about the team's rise into the CL and overall improvement to the squad, the character, the football and our continued rise to be a genuine contender for top 4 has little to do with Arry but our inability to retain that position is all Arry's fault... beggars belief!
A few on here have their agenda and that's their right, it's clearly personal... I'm not here to argue with you but some of it is embarrassing.
COYMFS!
DaveK , i burn a candle every day to insure that Allardyce never loses his job around the time that Spurs aren't doing well
He would be the death of what the Spurs way signifies to me.
Other then that , just got back from holiday to find that it is same shit different day , still no big signings , we are still bickering amongst eachother , almost nobody is gone (except for mpoku)
All is well on the Spurs front
DY , while i admire the perspective you add to this discussion ... you forgot to mention that Harry has the best Spurs squad in ages at his disposal and that he got very lucky at times and his favorite transfer targets are almost always has beens (or firmly on the road to that status). I for one know (because of my professional activities) that some agents counsel their (young , foreign and promising) clients against a move to Spurs because of Harry's presence. Yeah he did put Sandro in but he had very few options left at the time.
And let's not forget Bale only got into the team because of injuries , Pav saved our asses after a very long run on the bench and Harry did not even credit the lad , Krancjar scoring and playing very well but ignored etcetera
I for one am sure that a lot of managers could have done the same or even better with this squad. But that's just an opinion , Harry got to 4th and 5 th and those are facts so maybe i am not giving credit where credit is due ...
TMWNN
"Redknapp is like a malignant cancer, the sooner we cut him out of the club the better.
Nothing but a gob shite chancer who got lucky."
Christ Man! If anyone is like a malignant cancer then it is you.....Never ever have i seen you write anything positive about anything THFC. You have explained previously that you use this media to criticise the negative aspects of the club and chose not to comment on anything positive because you are not motivated to do so BUT you seemingly have problems with every aspect of the club - Levy, redknapp, players, stadium, transfer policy etc.
Listening to you anyone would think that we are the worst run club in the world (when in fact we are the biggest earners IN EUROPE outside of the CL), massively underachieving with a squad packed full of overpaid lazy mercanaries.
You are happy to slag off the stadium situaton when the game plan for that is not clear to anyone who isn't in the know - you feel free to jump to conclusions to back up your own prejudice (Levy wants mega Stratford stadium so he can sell and make millions...etc)
You expect us to simply sign a world class striker NOW or weeks ago when anyone with half a brain can see that to get the best (Aguerro, Benzema etc) we have to compete with the best (Utd, Chelsea, City, AC, Real...etc) BUT Spurs are not at their level on the pitch (no CL) or off the pitch (Wages/fees). We have to feed from the crumbs from the top table and we cannot do that until the top clubs have had their fill.
You want us to able to compete, pay the wages, massive transfer kitty. Blow the bank in a fast track to success BUT at the same time you utterly reject the idea of Stratford (which would be a fast track to success). Most fans understand that staying at N17 means slow progress, realistic growth, maybe some backwards steps as we fund a new stadium.....not you, you want the fast track to success, all joy, no pain! Get Real!
As for your criticisms of Harry, Spurs have acheived more in the last 2 seasons than we have since the start of the 90's . Harry had an amazing first season, an even better second one, a decent first half to 10/11 and then faltered in 2011...not the record of a serial failure, rather the chart of a growing club which perhaps came to a point where its squad could not meet the lofty expectations. Our progress stuttered, although not helped by injuries to King, Woodgate, Bale, Huddlestone, Kaboul and VDV through Jan-March.
It became clear that perhaps our strikers were collectively not up to the task and all recognise the need for change in that dept.
However, you have to recognise that to make that next step, we are shopping for very expensive players at the top of their game. They may come to Spurs but only if something bigger/paying more doesn't come along. If we want that sort of talent, a team of Spurs status has to wait until the player makes a decision because seeing as we don't pay £200k a week we have very little to tempt such players with.
It would be very useful if you could set out where the club should be going.....what we should be doing with the stadium, what players we should buy and sell, what manager we should have because you clearly consider yourself to be more suited to running the club than the current incumbents. Then perhaps I will see your constant relentless criticism in a constructive light rather than the pure negative criticism that it appears to be
DY.....you speak total utter sense!
Belgian Spur....every manager needs a bit of luck. You could say that Sir Alex was lucky that Hernandez played so amazingly last season and effectively saved their season.
being a manager is about making decisions. Kranjcar was on the margins and Harry picked him and he won 2 games for us....is that not great management. In the next 2 games he was dropped but vs Blackpool it was not the creativity that let us down, it was the strikers and the defending. Same in the next game after vs Wolves....3 great goals scored, 3 very poor goals conceded.
Same for Pavlyuchenko.....not sure if you go to many games but Pav can be as rubbish as he is good. His attitude does not seem right and if at Utd for example, he would never last because his work ethic & attitude would not be tolerated BUT Harry picked him last March/April and he went on a scoring spree that kept our push for 4th going....surely great management.
You cannot define all decisions that work as LUCK. I agree maybe we were lucky with Bale and the perhaps he was set to go on loan before BAE was injured but, like Walker, perhaps a loan would have done wonders for Bale and he would have proven himself as he did for us!
Harry is not perfect, god no! I hate his constant chat in the press and his dumbing down of our expectations is necessary but he goes too far! I think he does noeed to shuffle the pack to prevent fatigue & injury like we suffered this season. Hopefully he will learn from that but he has done very little wrong.
As I said above, HR goes too far in dumbing down our expectations and it comes across negative and pessimistic...however, some of the expectations of some of our fans (lets call them the "idiots") are so high and unrealistic that I think HR feels it necessary to be so publically pessimistic, to try and balance the idiots expectations.
As others have said, behind closed doors i am sure that HR and the team have very lofty expectations!
Devonshire , as you guessed i am not one of the fortunates that can watch the games regularly on our holy ground but i do watch as much as i can (television , dodgy livestreams etc) and Pav has not got a very good workrate but neither has Berbatov for that matter (who obviously is a better player i know)
Pav only got a look in because Harry was forced to do so ,you call that great management - i do not agree. He should have had his chance earlier and workrate is something that is overrated anyway , especially for a striker that scores goals. But that's just my opinion , i know Pav goes in and out games and is not running around like crazy. The fact that he went on a scoring spree is the only reason he got some consecutive games, not the other way around. You have seen the images of Harry after Pav scored ... that was very very telling to me at least about what kind of manager he is.
You mention Ferguson but he at least is a manager that helps players develop in to better players and has a long term vision and approach. He also dares to give chances to young guys when needed and can change games with his tactical vision. Things i am afraid Harry rarely does but i know that comparing managers to Fergie might be a bit unfair.
And i repeat that Harry has a lot more talent in his squad than Big MJ had or almost any other spurs manager in the last two decades (give or take) , 4 th was great but 5 th last year was dissapointing , especially because i felt he watched the ship sink ( a bit over the top this metaphore i know) without really trying to counter it .
but as i said , thats just my opinion. I do not believe that he really has an added value to the club.
And i know (this is not my opinion but one of the most influencal agents i work with) that he is a negative influence on some transfer deals. In the rest of Europe he is seen by many as a conservative , English minded manager and even though Spurs is an attractive club for young and upcoming talents , our manager (and our bad track record when it comes to promising youngsters) is seen as a risk to the development of their career.
Belgian Spur, i respect your comments but i take issue with a few of them.
Pav has a poor first touch, poor in the air, isn't aware of others around him, lacks intelligence, lacks pace, he's weak and isn't a natural goalscorer, therefore the least i expect fom him is to put in a decent shift in terms of workrate (which he doesn't do either). Berbatov is in a different league to him so the comparison is void. If i was Redknapp i would only play him when i had to too.
You state Fergie as the benchmark of youth development, exactly how many youth players have come through the Utd ranks in recent years? Actually, i'll open that question up, apart from Arsenal how many of the top 6 have had youth players come through their ranks? Hardly any at all, young players do not get the time to ease into a top 6 side in today's money driven game where the pressure of success is paramount and under these circumstances mistakes made by some of these youngsters at the highest level could come at an enormous price in terms of their long term development. Therefore there's little choice but to loan them out so they can learn, mature and gain first team experience at their own pace.
If my son was to become a great little player and he had a choice in his teens as to where he could ply his footballing trade, I wouldn't advise him to go to an academy at the top 4, i would advise him to go to a professional club lower down the league.
If Arry says they are or aren't ready i trust in his judgement, at some point in his managerial career he has seen some of the best English talent come through the ranks so i think he has a pretty good grasp on the type of character and attitude a young player needs to make it at the top level when even the average player can seemingly earn a fortune.
In terms of comparing the squad now to BMJ's, it's all hyperthetical and an easy argument to state but it's not quantifiable, who's to say BMJ would've got more out of this squad? Arry has his faults, but so did BMJ.
I can imagine Arry being a negative influence on transfer deals... that he doesn't want to happen.
Devonshirespur:
In the past you've struck as a reasonable person, but your recent posts are so desperate to defend 'Arry on all fronts that you seem to have completely lost the plot:
" perhaps a loan would have done wonders for Bale and he would have proven himself as he did for us!"
Excuse me? Loaning Bale to QPR would have been a good thing for Spurs how? Bale proving himself at QPR would have been good for Spurs how? Has Bale not proved himself to your satisfaction at Spurs? You think playing at QPR would have made him better than playing in the first team at Spurs? Seriously? Are you listening to yourself?
The fundamental question about any action by any paid member of the Club, management, players, coaching, staff, tea ladies and groundsmen, should be: "Is it good for Spurs?" NOT "Is it good for Harry." In the past, particularly in his first season with us, there was substantial overlap between the two. At this point in his tenure with us, there seems very little overlap left and a great deal of conflict between what's good for Harry('s long term ambitions) and what's good for Spurs.
BelgianSpur, agreed with practically everything in your last two posts . Great examples of rebutting other's posts without any ad hominem attacks. Was also very interested in getting your professional perspective on how we are viewed as a destination for young players. Doesn't surprise me in the least, but nevertheless disturbing. We can't afford the established players and young players being advised not to come to us. Bit scary.
"You have seen the images of Harry after Pav scored ... that was very very telling to me at least about what kind of manager he is." Precisely.
DY, posted at length about this a few blogs back, but even at Spurs, we used to sign young players and they would break into the first team: Huddlestone, Dawson and Lennon were all signed as promising young (teenagers or just turned twenty in Dawson's case) players. No one is talking about the academies, rather when we sign young, promising players from other clubs. Especially since we're being told that that is all we can afford, so we better be able to develope them, as we have in the past.
"If harry doesn't rate them, they must be crap" is not a persuasive argument, given his undeniable failure of judgement with respect to Bale.
Argh, massive correction, Nottingham Forest, not QPR as Bale's loan destination.
Agree with you Ziege, but there's a big difference in the expectations and aspirations of the club and fans between the bringing through of the likes of Hudd, Daws and Lennon in a time of mediocrity and today... we want success, the complete and finished article and we want it now. And talking of developing young, promising players, there are some fans on here that would quite happily sell those 3 players, that's development for you.
I agree that in today's market, under the home grown rule as well as the financial fair play regulations we will have to blood the youngsters, but i fully expect Rose, Walker, Townsend, Kane and Caulker (plus others) to be on the fringes of the 1st team this year anyway and I see a great future for them all at WHL... surely that's progress but we have to be patient.
And as for the "failure of judgement" regarding Bale, i wouldn't quite call it that. At the time Bale was going to be sent out on loan, the issue was more to do with his mindset than his ability, he was a pussy and he needed to man-up. Although he's on the end of some pretty rough treatment game in game out in the Prem, to a degree he still is a bit of a lightweight. In no way am i criticising him, it's just an observation and i fully understand his priority of self-preservation. Anyway, the lad's now one of the most dangerous players in world football, to say that Arry has had no influence on his development is incredibly harsh, but again that criticism possibly fits your agenda.
Well there will soon be an objective test of Harry's capabilities, perhaps modified by Levy's transfer dealings.
If he is such a useless plonker at every level of the game be it youth development, talent spotting, team selection, tactics, communication and motivation (have I missed anything from the above posts?) then we can confidently expect us to rapidly slide down the table this season, providing of course Levy doesn't sack him early and replace him with one of the many touted big-name managers often referred to by Harry's detractors. Could be another round of "well when I tookover etc." from the new guy.
Let's let the performances and the results speak for themselves, but with no new strikers would you want to be playing Everton, City, Utd., Arsenal and Liverpool in the first 6 weeks of the season? Sorry, I forgot, it will be Harry's fault because we didn't sign any new strikers.
Dy , we shall need to agree to disagree i am afraid but you have some valid points although i think your assesment of Pav is a bit harsh
Harry himself does not influence them directly , it's his track record with young foreign players that makes some agents think twice about signing for Spurs. I actually was shocked to learn this. This comes from a Belgian/Italian agent that has links with the top flight clubs and has lots of players in his influential "sphere". We talked about this when the topic of Hazard and Lukaku to Spurs was raised and he advices both of them against signing at Spurs mainly because of Harry.
Belgian....respect your views.
Have to disagree about the perception of Harry abroad....i think after our CL campaign many will look at us and see an exciting, attacking team full of pace and talent. This reflects the manager. Not sure too many players are bothered by anything more than wages and success. A typical continental coach like Ramos/Capello would be more of a scarey thought for players as they are total disciplinarians. Harry is far more human, few players have a bad word to say
I also have to admit to have witnessed many sub standard performances by fan favourites like Pav, Niko and GDS. While they can all have their day, they cannot be relied upon. When quality steps on the pitch, like Modric, VDCV, Bale, you know what you will get from them 8 out of 10 times and it is usually top quality.
When Pav steps on the pitch you have no idea whether it will be good Pav or Lazy totally ineffective Pav.
His problem is that when he is bad, he contributes nothing and is more of a burden than a help.
I therefore see how sometimes it may be hard for HR to pick him all the time. And if HR picks up a vibe in training about Pavs mood/form/attitude, then maybe again he has even greater reason not to start him. In our position it hard to persist with a player who is not performing in the hope that he picks up becuase that can cost points. Its also unfair on those waiting in the wings, who maybe looking good in training. If they get in they then deserve a run of a few games. sadly this season we kept rotating the strikers this season and none stepped up to the plate.
IMO we have too many players like Pav...the sort of player that looks amazing on a utube compliation but in the real world over the course of the season there is as much bad as there is good. In fact look at Pavs goals this season and you'll say WOW what a player. Watch the bits in between his goals and you form a completely different opinion of him.
But isnt it the parts that make you go Wow that count ? And he is not a top striker by far but with the supply that comes in and around the box i am certain he will score more goals than Crouch - Defoe is a more difficult case , cant seem to make my mind up about him - talented yes but achieving his potential , no.
But it is true that we can not see or judge what a players does on the trainingground or how he behaves himself when he is not on the pitch. GDS is another case , very talented but needs to be shown lots of tlc and is not cut out for the English game but that boy can play , no doubt there. A bit 2 gifted and a bit 2 fragile mentally.
and again , the Harry part is related to the young and upcoming players like the two mentioned. The VDV type of player has no fear because they know they come with the experience to demand things. Harry likes experienced players , and he might be on the money but for me he is a bit 2 fascinated by the Parker ilk of player
DaveK,
It's easy to pretend that football is simple, a+b=c when trying to make a point when in reality it's much more complicated. Is Harry responsible for our schedule? No.
Is Harry a contributing factor to our inability to sign a striker? Quite possibly. He's made quite clear that his ambitions go beyond Spurs. He wants England. The press want him for England. Even his supporters on this site acknowledge he's not going to be here next year. He badmouths the team's prospects continuously. Managing expectations? Why? He's made quite clear he doesn't care what the fans think. Who else get's their information through the press? Ah, maybe players on other teams and their agents? His selection policy--benched players who come on and actually perform go right back to the bench, while his non-performing favorites continue to start whenfit(ish). His dismissive mockery of non-English players (even English players in the case of Bent.) The lack of an example of a any recently signed younger player establishing themselves in the first team.
So, you're looking at a short term manager, with no expectation/ambition for CL and a pattern of marginalizing players who aren't his core of established PL favorites regardless of their actual on field performance who chooses to loan out and forget young players. How is this an attractive option for an up and coming European prospect? Or even a young British player?
If you're Daniel Levy, do you let your manager, who has a deservedly dodgy reputation in transfer dealings, splash still more cash in what is likely to be his last season with the club? Cause he spent that 50 mm so well, how many games did we get out of Chimbonda?
Grounds for sacking Redknapp now? He's leaving next year anyway. Keeping him for another season is preventing us from moving forward, the stasis that an earlier poster referred to. We can't afford stasis. We will lose our better/ambitious players and then we're on the slippery slope back to mid table mediocrity.
ziegemonster.
Not quite sure where you are coming from.
With 20:20 hindsight loaning Bale out would have been a bad idea because he was vital in the run in. BUT at the time that he came into the team, no one had any idea what a massive impact he would make. There was no big clamour amongst fans demanding he plays. In fact fans speak more highly of GDS now that they did of Bale then! Everyone recognised his potential but Bale surprised everyone with his quality, confidence and consistency.
I agree that maybe HR should take some more risks and give others a chance but he is on a hiding to nothing because if it works he is called lucky and if it fails it is used to hang him.
Your "whats good for Harry" logic makes no sense. Harry's repuation is not furthered by having a bad season with Spurs. The better he does, the bigger his status....if you think he cares only about himself and the future england job then surely you can acknowledge a manager who takes his team to top 4 against the odds will be in a better position to demand wahtever he wants from ENg than someone who ends mid table.
I cannot see how HR is acting only in his own interests, other than in the way that he has throughout his career, which is effectively to want a squad full of experienced quality rather than one half full of youthful potential....I agree he is selfish and probably in his own mind does not commit to anything for more than 1 season, hence his approach of picking his tried and tested favourites to get results rather than taking risks with youth which could cost him points and ultimately his job. But ultimately this is his pragmatic approach to management. It is what got us from bottom to 8th, its what took us from 8th to 4th.
fans want him out on the strength of a quarter of a season of poor form in 2 and a half seasons. Its pathetic. people talk about Ancelotti in his place but even he had a run of 10 games of poor form with a double winning team...these things happen sometimes. Factor our injuries in and really we've done ok.
there are so many positives to take from the last couple seasons. there are clearly some shortcomings in our squad which will hopefull be addressed. You me Harry DL we all know what they are, but there is a process to go through, that process end on 1st Sept and we should wait til then to judge Harry & Levy
As for those Pav photos, havn't seen them. What are they like?....link?
Can't disagree with what you say Belgian Spur, and yes i probably am being a bit harsh on Pav but he's so frustrating.
And as for your Agent contact, call me a cynic but he probably advised those players against coming to Spurs because he wants his cut from a big payday from the neuveau riche plastic clubs and their chop and change management ethic. Agents are hardly the bastion of credibility now are they...
Ziegemonster
Players care little about the manager....bottom line for them is money and success.
Modric wanted to go to Chelsea and they had NO manager....why?? Money and success.
This talk about harry putting off players is BS.
I have said it a million times. Our place in the food chain is like this:
1. Spurs want top quality player A.
2. Top quality player A is also on the radar of AC Milan, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich and Man Utd.
3. Top quality player A gets a serious expression of interest from Spurs. They indicate he would be their top man, marquee signing and as such would earn their top wage £80k a week. Spurs explain their lofty ambitions to reach the CL and challenge for the title im years to come.
4. Top quality player A says thanks very much, I'll be in contact, He then waits to see whether anything better (priorities 1.money 2. success) comes along. If by 27th Aug nothing materialises, Top quality player A gets on the phone to Spurs and tells them how he was a boyhood fan blah blah blah....31st August, deal done!
That is the only way Spurs get top players.....crumbs from the top table when the top teams have finished feeding.
Alternatively:
1. Spurs enquire about Average Player B
2. Average player B thinks wow....Spurs, In Europe, better wages, some great players...where do i sign.
We can get average players in if we want. We could have 5 or 6 done and dusted.
We want top quality players so need to wait and see what is there for us come the end of the window...witness VDV. World class, surplus at Real, no options come the end of the window, happy to sign for Spurs on reduced wages. Real happy to slash price simply to get rid.
If we have not signed a top quality striker, its not because they are concerned about Harry's commitment. That is simply rubbish.
This is precisely the binary simplistic view I was referring to earlier: you're either a top top player on every champions league quarter finalists team 's radar or you're just average and not good enough for Spurs. Nothing in between? Even if we're talking about established players in the mid twenties, there's nothing in between?
You know, maybe if we had a manager who was interested in coaching a football team rather than being a media whore, a manager who would actuallly add some value, we wouldn't be in such desperate need of "finsihed product, top, top striker," desperately hoping/waiting for crumbs falling off the CL teams table. Berbatov wasn't exactly a household name when we signed him. Would he have met your definition of a top quality striker? Had you even heard of him?
Re, players don't care about managers and Luka. When you've got an insane, interfers in team selection owner like Abromovich having you on his yacht, offering you triple wages and medals and cups and other blandishments, maybe even listing out the possible managerial candidates, yeah, probably you don't care that there isn't a manager there right now. Cause we know how long managers last at Chelsea anyway, don't we?
Dy , i know they are not reliable at all , i work with em on a daily basis but this one is different in a certain way. He does know his football and gives sensible advice to his younger players (some of them arent even his) , he knows sometimes a step in between is necessary for young guys to make it big. Not go for the big money right away
He is one of the old style , so he is one of the few people who's opinions on football i take into account.
Why do some people assume that because they can't think of, or haven't seen, anyone better than we what we have, that it automatically mitigates the failure of a man who is paid millions of pounds to find players to improve the team?
If you're the tea boy in a middle of nowhere planning department (for example), you're hardly qualified to tell others who is and who isn't available, are you? "No one is available, it can't be arry's fault" is an argument that wore thread bare thin two or three windows ago.
Ziegemonster
You make valid points but you talk as if it is the 1st September. We are aiming for the stars with our transfers, to make that happen we need to be patient. We may be able to get a Llorente or similar if we are lucky. If we are not then no doubt we have a back up plan.....but lets not rush to the back up plan 1 month before plan A is dead in the water. I would rather have Llorente in Sept than Gyan now!
I am not the one being simplistic. Your MUST BUY STRIKER NOW mantra is simplistic and fails to have any understanding of the complexities of the transfer market, and the subtleties of negotiation, especially when you are small fish swimming in a big pond working with a limited budget.
Re: Berbatov, every now and then it is possible to identify a player and get a deal done early doors...we also managed it with Modric & Sandro. You name me other clubs that have had such success in identifying talent, getting in there and securing it before anyone else. Berba earned us 300% what we paid for him, Modric could do something similar and Sandro is probably already worth 200% what we paid. That is excellent transfer dealings. Not the money they make us but the fact the value reflects the top quality we have attracted to the club and which is coverted by the very top teams. 1 secured under Harry, 2 under Comolli and all deals closed personally by Levy. Such deals are a rarirty, they cannot be expected every season.
Similarly VDV for £8m on the last day of the window. Thats half what LFC paid for Henderson. A brilliant bit of business!
Pur transfer policy is to be commended, but you must recognise the higher up we aim the tougher it gets. Judge Levy & Co in Spetember!
What is your point re managers.....you seem to be saying that Redknapp possibly leaving for Eng next year puts players off coming.... This is totally unsubstantiated but you are preared to accept it as fact and use it to hang Harry! There is plenty of evidence of players going to clubs which have a frequent turn over of managers. As said before, players don't sign for managers, unless there is some history (eg Big Sam & Nolan), they sign for money and glory.
TMWNN
Like I said to Ziegemonster, there is no doubt we have our plans and our wish list. I think our Plan A is probably Adebayor. We are not going to scrap plan A and move to plan B until we know Paln A is a no-goer.
Plan D maybe Gyan and that is someone we could probably attract now without too many problems BUT why would we do that when Plan A B and C are still possible.
I'd take Plan A in Sept over Plan D now! We want a special plyer, not more of the same.
You expect Harry to unearth a very high quality talented player who will make the difference, someone who will see us step up to the next level, have an instant impact, settle in the club and country over night. You want that player to not be aware of his own value, so that his wage demands are affordable and is prepared to come to a club with Europa League footy. A player that is not attracting the interest of anyone bigger or more attractive than SPurs, and you want Harry to find him and bring him to Spurs NOW to be our saviour.......well its no wonder you are such a miserable negative fan with nothing good to say about your support, because your expectations are so unrealistically high you will never ever be satisfied.
I hop tpo god you don't attend matches. Waste of a good seat!
Just registering my 100% agreement with Devonshirespur. Some people just think it is all too simple. Harry is not doing his job! Harry is not doing his job! Blah blah! Bleat bleat!
@ziegemonster:
Re: Berbatov case. In 2006 when he came to Spurs he was known around Europe having already excelled in the CL with Leverkusen and scored over 30 goals for Bulgaria. He also mentioned at the time that he wanted to play for Man U.
So Devonshirespurs is quite right. He only came to us because a top top club didn't make an offer for him at the time. This will be true of any world classs player we will see at Spurs for years to come. This has an effect on our transfer program. It's only the truth. Kindly accept it.
Nochman, all due respect, but you looked that up on Wiki, didn't you? I follow the Bundesliga so I did know who Berbatov was, but I repeat, he wasn't a household name in England. Wanting to play for ManU isn't the same as being pursued by ManU. You're actually making my point for me. There are quality players, even quality strikers, out there who are not going to be signed by the CL heavyweights in a particular window. That's where our best opportunities are.
Devonshire--where in this, or for that matter any earlier thread did I say "MUST BUY STRIKER NOW"? Yeah, marquee signing on August 31 would be great, but I do not want a repeat of last January when hoping and holding out for perfect meant we got bugger all. You yourself say that re Modric, Berbatov and Sandro were "Such deals are a rarirty" but you also want to stick with plan A, which seems to be the pursuit of just such a rarity, before moving to a more realistic and achievable plan B.
What we've got now in Crouch, Defoe and, though it pains me to say it, Keane is poor. In terms of goals scored in the league, it's utterly pathetic. We would all ideally like to see perfect/excellent replacements but the really urgent need is to upgrade from the poor/pathetic we've got right now. "The perfect can be the enemy of good" might as well be our motto for the last two windows. I hope to god that doesn't stretch to three.
You accuse me failing "to have any understanding of the complexities of the transfer market, and the subtleties of negotiation" but according to you, players only sign for money and glory. So the market is subtle but players are all thick as planks and just go for the most money? Well, some of them certainly are and do, see ManCity's roster. I'm in agreement with your point that we are not an automatic first choice in terms of money and immediate glory, so we are looking at the not quite there yet players, right? The one's the big boys aren't prepared to take a gamble on. So those players will have to be weighing other factors like potential for glory, who is already on the team who could keep me out of the starting line up, and will the manager give me a reasonable chance to replace an established starter and, yes, this manager likes/wants me but how long is he going to be here.
Devonshirespur,
'Be patient', 'You expect players now'
Absolute rubbish. I've been waiting since Berbatov left (3 years) for us to sign a better than mid-table striker. I hardly woke up yesterday and thought we must buy a striker now.
Your defeatist loser mentality and weak acceptance of the sub standard, just like rent-a-gob Redknapp, needs to be eradicated from the club asap.
Enjoyed a bit of feisty reading there. Some of the views are very interesting. I for one am a bit disillusioned with Harry and his need to talk to the world about what is wrong with Spurs, it comes across so, so, negative. With regard to a striker, when we qualified for CL football, I remember Harry being interviewed in South Africa at the World Cup and he said we needed a TOP, TOP STRIKER and that he would find one at the WC. Then in January he was saying the same and we were flying in the CL, but the January window closed and we didn't buy that striker. At the same time all our strikers were impotent in front of goal. How that was allowed to happen is totally beyond me. Harry is currently talking down the Europa Cup competition and saying Thursday/Sunday, Thursday/Sunday will affect our tilt at top four and I do not disagree. Comparing this attitude with last season where, after a midweek game in the CL, the team collapsed like a bunch of part timers (against Wigan for instance) I can only assume that he was so inexperienced with combining CL and League football that he wasn't aware that he needed to blood some of the younger lads and keep them at the club and not loan them out to 'all in sundry' and come up short when injury struck. I absolutely think that the attitude and irk he now shows in interviews, shows he has fallen 'out of love' with the club and, when that happens, there's usually no turning back.
I think Levy will want to try for a top four place this season (whether he's successful or not) and then let Harry go his merry way, because at the moment, I don't think Harry has any concerns about my club. I think he has other things on his mind.
@Ziegemonster, you have a view of Harry and have articulated your points very well.
Some of them I can agree with and others not.
The only point I am making is that to blame Harry for everything is in my view (one of your favourite words) simplistic, but that if you are correct then the League table will reflect our nosedive towards the bottom.
If that happens, then in my opinion Levy will react and sack him...it's par for the course with this, and many other chairmen.
I also would not be too sure that even if Harry survives he will leave for the England job next season as the FA are notoriously picky about employing managers with "interesting" financial pasts. Ask Terry Venables.
It certainly is a spirited debate, but it is irrelevant to what happens this season. Levy will still be in charge and if you believe that Harry is to blame for our current failings then Levy is the man who hired, and has yet to fire, him.
Without new strikers we will be playing 9 vs 11 and if Harry can produce good results during the first 6 weeks with that handicap he will be doing very well. Even with new strikers they will now have no time to gel with the rest of the team so it's still likely to be 9 vs 11 over the critical period. And of course no Sandro.
For me, it's not looking good but unlike you I don't blame Harry.
'Excuse me? Loaning Bale to QPR would have been a good thing for Spurs how? Bale proving himself at QPR would have been good for Spurs how? '
Anyone else read that in Joe Pesci's voice?
WitnerWeekend, yep, that's the tone I was aiming for ; )
TMWNN...i know our need for a quality striker is urgent, but only in respect that we must get one in this window. It doesn't, and is highly unlikely to happen until late in the day for reeasons we all understand.
I want us to progress as much as the next man but lets see what transpires in the window before we (you) begin the assasination of Levy & Harry. If we pulled Llorente of Benzema out the bag on 31st August, with maybe Diarra and a CB between now and then, then 99.9% of fans would be happy how the window went, even if it was a bit lastminute.com. Just because it did not all happen in June is no reason to be critical because it probably didin't happen in June or July for a reason.
Ziegemonster...i don't think we are in the market for players who "are not quite there yet" because that will not have the instant impact necessary if we are to achieve well this season and stand a chance of keeping Bale, VDV and Modric next summer. I think if we have to we will take one but if we can pull off another coup like last summer and get a world class player at 11.59pm 31 August then we will do that.
Said it before and I guess most would agree with me...I'd rather have a chance of getting Llorente/Adebayor/Benzema late in the day than bottling it now and going for Gyan or similar. Some of the subtleties of negotiating is keeping your nerve, staying calm, having a clear structure & plan, a range of fall back options and convinction.....just because Levy hasn't been on spursfc.com detailing his strategy doesn't mean he does not have a plan.....Levy is one of the best negotiators out there. He will have a plan which he is working through....give him a chance to work it through. If nothing comes from it this summer then sure, shoot him!
As my final word on what has been a pretty intense debate, I have been called simplistic and accused of having a defeatist loser mentality...yet all I want is for Spurs to buy the best striker we can possibly afford.
Acknowledging the difficulties of a club of Spurs standing competing for top names, I am prepared to wait until the 11th hour to see if Spurs can meet my lofty aspirations.
If come 1st Sept and we have the same strike force or have simply replaced like for like (Defoe for Gyan, Zamora for Crouch etc) then I will be as disappointed and angry as the next man. However, even in this situation I think it is not right to say "well all we got was Gyan, why didn't we get him for pre-season" because that would have the benefit of 20:20 hindsight. Gyan maybe on our list but lets first aim for the fricking stars and if we miss then maybe something slightly less will have to do!
COYS!
Devonshire,
What world class striker did we sign on the last day of a transfer window? VDV is not a striker.
Hoping for a an 11:59 miracle signing of a world class striker is like having a retirement plan that consists of buying a lottery ticket every week. It might happen, but the odds are against you.
An active scouting program turning up the likes of Berbatov, Modric, Sandro, getting them signed early in the preseason, not three weeks into the season, is far more likely to get us the marginal improvement we desperately need. Look at last year's results against the lower half of the table. Guaranteed 20 goals a season would be great, but if we had two strikers putting in 10 each, instead of Defoe and Crouch's meager tally, we would be in CL right now.
You want great, I just want better. And based on results of the last two windows, chasing great has meant we don't get better.