Spurs, Stratford and Sasha Grey
Friday, January 21, 2011 at 10:22PM Oops. I promised I wouldn't. But don't fret. This is not another epic emotive avalanche war cry of sentiment in favour of N17. Just a response to Daniel Levy's Open Letter. I can hardly ignore Mr Chairman considering the love/hate relationship I have for my favourite bald headed champion of economics. Levy, it's in the blog name. And hypocrisy appears to be all the rage so...
I'm now officially depressed. More so, not because of the apparent confidence in moving to East London displayed in the letter but much thanks to the fact that he has simply echoed the previous statements made. Just far more to the point this time, sharp pencil to the back of your head, tap tap tap. And this only serves to solidify his preference above and beyond the original (alleged) promise. It's been hinted before.
If the Stratford move goes ahead then I'm going to look at changing the whole blogging thing. I'm thinking porn. 'Dear Miss Sasha Grey'. I can then talk about getting screwed without a hint of irony in the rhetoric. Maybe, I don't know. We'll see.
Back to his open letter (I'll keep any discussion about open orifices for future potential chat). The quote that sticks out (ooh) for me:
"Concerns we have about the viability and deliverability of the NDP"
Concerns that would not exist if Stratford wasn't an option.
Concerns that might well exist in a couple of weeks time if West Ham win the bid.
Concerns that will need to be dealt with meaning they can be dealt with otherwise the push and hype for the NDP would never have existed in the first place.
"I've made up my mind and we're off".
So basically, it's all reactive, on-the-go decision making rather than any of it retaining a basis in that old dinosaur called football (the emotive stuff many have now parked under the bed in a shoe box).
The AEG partnership, the OS bid. That had to take some planning. The intention was always there, always more favourable. Like I said. Hinted.
In and amongst all the coverage in the press against Spurs winning the bid, there is still something sinister and ominous about it all. Even Pele suddenly has got in on the act. Did we nearly sign him or something?
So thanks for the letter Mr Chairman. More side-footing. Hardly any transparency.
If he was up front with it all, didn't patronise oh so cleverly, most of us anti-Stratford mob would probably stop our ranting and just support the club no matter what, swallowing hard, and accepting the only avenue of progression with black arm-band. But alas, no.
So Tottenham fans who remain irked by it all, back in your box. We go.
PLC. Does what it says on the tin. With a supporting case of numpties from local government.
If we have a plan A and a plan B comes along then take the plan B with its sacrifices and lack of sentimentality and make that your plan A. Just don't say it out loud.
lol
What Levy does say out loud is that he is ever conscious of the feelings of our fans - on all fronts. States the one choice we have is between standing still or moving forward. Then claims his stance is backed up because of the emails he's received. It's progress and nobody can argue with that. But once more, that's not the point is it? If you've been following, you'll know. If you just scoff and look the other way you'll once more throw it back in my face.
Transparency.
Also, any confirmation on the amount of emails you've got there Daniel? Because outside of your inbox, the ones that are vocal are passionately split down the middle. The ones that care will always speak out, for or against. They are the ones who should matter.
Sadly, you know, you know very very well that the majority - the silent ones, the ones too scared or hardly bothered - along with the new generation of 'East London' supporters who will blossom if we move - these fans won't give a hoot other than getting tickets for concerts and Premier League football.
We are not supporters. We are consumers. And you, you pesky you, know this above all else.
The letter, in many ways, is actually the same ilk of emotive sh*t I've been accused of drowning in recently in my defence of remaining in North London.
Something else to cite is the quote: A new stadium is critical to our continued success.
True.
Which brings me onto this:
If you look at the stadium capacities of the top 20 clubs in Europe, they all exceed ours. The new Financial Fair Play rules will mean that we shall only be able to outlay income generated through the activities of the Club – increased match day revenues play a major role in a club’s finances and we need to ensure that we are in a position to thrive and to continue to compete at the highest level.
Fine. But let us know the contingency if we don't get the OS. Because we're still gonna need a new stadium, right?
So I hope, I honestly hand on heart hope, that without the power of hindsight and a flux capacitor, that whatever happens is the right thing and turns out to be the right decision and the people who might disagree with it grow to understand and appreciate it. I do sincerely hope that. Regardless of my opinion. But it will be easier for some to live with than others who will feel betrayed. And some of us will just...sigh...let's not go there.
I guess then we fall into the murky world of what defines hard support. Do you follow the team no matter what no matter where or do you stick by your principles and love the club from afar?
Again. I'm praying we do not fragment. Tottenham till we die, right? Audere est facere. Hey, maybe Levy can organise a N17 legacy for us. A five-a-side pitch where once WHL stood.
Modern football. It's only about Champions League and the winning. It's getting stuck in my throat that, difficult to swallow. Where's Sasha Grey when you need her?
So what if - if we're not awarded the OS site? Athletics gets it's legacy. Yeah, remember? There's another sport involved in all this drama.
As for me, if it's not awarded to us, I plan to sit back with a Cuban cigar in mouth with two high class escort girls either side of me and I won't be taking my eyes off the spin coming out of Spurs HQ that will no doubt make me as dizzy as the twin entertainment paid for by platinum card.
In debt. But manageable. And well worth it.
Reader Comments (98)
piri-piri chicken, spooky you've sold it to me, C.O.Y.S.S.
...."don't try to tell me Levy hasn't side footed N17 for reasons that benefit ENIC and him first, THFC fans second".
I look at it in a different way. For me, it's THE CLUB's benefit that I care about, not only now but in the future. I don't give a flying F if someone on that journey makes some money and someone get pissed. My ultimate love is with THE SPURS, whether they stay or they move.
Also, I see great hypocrisy coming from some fans. They uprooted their family or their own asses and moved to wherever they thought life would be better for them, but they come in here and bullshit about “must stay” for Spurs. What kind of character is that? I can, but your fucking cannot? Many companies that were the biggest employers and major contributors in their original communities moved to other places. Like it or not, PL football is a business. Big business. And if it makes business sense to grow the club and to afford and be able to mix it up with the elite by only moving 5-6 miles away – so be it.
Yes, Levy is merciless businessman, and I don’t object to it as long as it benefits the club (and him along the way). As a good paid Nike employee, why would I care how much Phil Knight is profiting from building new facility, where I will be working and be able to bring more money to my family and afford to pay for good education for my kids? I’d rather have him run the club than Mike Ashley, or those two porn clowns. Any day.
"But go on, enjoy your pre-match pint at the Slug and Lettuce just outside the ground in Stratford, squeezing in a cheeky Nandos before taking your seat in the middle tier."
Right. Instead I should eat a greasy doner kebap outside WHL just the way my father did, and his father before him, and his father before him, because things never change. Oh, wait.
Reading some of the comments from those that either aren't bothered about selling out, or even worse, actually for it, has made me realise just how out of touch with a lot of our fans I am.
If the other 24,000 fans (who'll take it up to 60,000) have as little sense of tradition, what hope is there in the NDP or OS? What happens if success doesn't come, what then?
Huge split in the faithfuls. Ouch. The only hope for either side now lies with the OPLC. If there is any realistic way Levy can be convinced to abandon the whole plan, I'll lend my support, but it seems a bit late for that now. If the sharabang moves off site, supporters will either stay and start afresh, or remain embittered forever, or go with them. I'll go myself, adapt, if its rubbish I'll lose interest, start taking psychedelics again, like I did in the 90's. I cant see the OPLC having us though. Too much bad publicity. It would make more sense to give it to the spam, get on with the hysteria of the olympics and then have left town long after it becomes a supermassive money black hole. Thats what I'd do.
Beetle, neither of us are in the wrong. That's what makes this so messy. I guess the one thing to come out of this is how much we - all of us - love the club, even if we're split on opposites side of the Lilywhite spectrum.
Spooky, Levy is looking at this senario with an open mind (biased towards profit, workability and ENIC). We look at it open mindedly with a biase towards, our roots, OUR LEGACY and ownership of our own ground.
If we move to Stratford, we are leasees. If we develope elsewhere we are the owners.
I came from Donegal in Ireland in 1977 to live in Wood Green and was a Spurs fan because my eldest brother was. 3 of my 4 children are Spurs fans (one non-football fan) and 2 of my sons travel 100,s of miles now to watch Spurs and these 2 live in main land Europe.
I don't like Levy putting platitudes down our throats as, although I admire his business acumen, I distrust the little
f--c"ing midget.
So I want Spurs to compete with the Arse, Man U & C, Chelski and the Scousers. I want to play in Europa Champions League and WIN the fucking thing.
But do I want to move from WHL. Whether it be Picketts Louch, Enfield or Stratford, I think there's one good bet. It won't be N17. Levy won't pay the punitive 106 agreement demands. FULL STOP.
'Beetle, neither of us are in the wrong. That's what makes this so messy. I guess the one thing to come out of this is how much we - all of us - love the club, even if we're split on opposites side of the Lilywhite spectrum.'
Spooky, you're both wrong. Beetle is plain wrong which, in the context above, automatically makes you wrong. ;-)
Well the difference between the two projects is around £200,000,000. the 8000 who have signed the petition should have a whip round. Its only 30K a head lol, you lot should pay it because if I run the club I wouldn't been too keen to pay it for you either.
Between the the two projects I bet there's a difference of 1 Edin Dzeko+5 year contract in Interest alone!
I dont think some of you are taking the cold economics into account enough!
Just so quick to call the people who live in the real world, Mike Lee cocksuckers or arsenal scummers or even traitors! Im shocked, some of you should hang your heads in shame! lol
Sigh.
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_6696572,00.html
LOL - just shows your an idiot. You are indeed all those names. Your the embarresment to the club.
I support Tottenham and also hard cold economics, what a great fan you are.
What you fail to take on board is that we the ludites dont look at it a just 2 options. There are other options. Stratford should never have come into the equation from our perspective as true Tottenham fans.
It'd be great to stay at WHL, good to stay in North London. Anyone want to discuss football at all?
Match report later...ish.
The greatest fallacy in all this is that people think it's over when the preferred bidder is chosen, but preferred bidder is just that---the final choice will be made by the OPLC and Government together, in March.
I dreamed I was asleep and, in my dream-sleep, I dreamed of the Temple Mount in the holy city of Jerusalem. And I was filled with a desire to make a pilgrimage there.
And I wondered at this Temple Mount - sacred to Jews, Muslims and Christians alike - provided to the people as a place of worship; and where, for almost 3000 years, blood, sweat and prayers poured out across generations for self or tribe have consecrated the ground and made hallowed the stones.
And I considered the holiness of the earth there and its transformative power as a locus for lofty thought: for hope and redemption, supplication and praise, and for the myriad human petitions of devotion and exhortation.
'I must go there,' I thought to myself in my dream, 'and drink in that sanctity. I must experience and touch that land and those stones steeped in ineffable holiness.'
But then a voice began talking in the far distance to me. So distant was it that it seemed insignificant, and so absurd was its message that I could not take it seriously at first.
'The Temple Mount you dream of no longer exists,' it said. 'The whole shebang has been relocated from Jerusalem to Tel Aviv. The new Temple Mount (or the 'Naming Rights Mount', as it is currently called) accommodates twice as many tourists and pilgrims, and transport links in and out of the venue are far superior to those of the old Mount in Jerusalem. Furthermore, the new Mount is close to the beach, where the promenade is generously supplied with restaurants, bars and nightclubs for travellers in need of more worldly pleasures. In addition, the new Mount boasts events, ceremonies and sacrifices 365 days-a-year, and the annual turnover far exceeds the revenue of the old Mount - essential for keeping pace with economic change in other holy places elsewhere.
'Granted, the new Mount has nothing of the history of the old Mount. And the land itself - far from being holy - is a former brown-field site. Peeyoo! But a history and culture will develop over time and, of course, with the increasing sales of Moses, Jesus and the Prophet Muhammad icons. The inescapable conclusion is that the relocation to Tel Aviv is the only realistic way forward for a Holy Place which aspires to be globally pre-eminent.'
In my sleep I woke from my sleep-dream with a start. Still asleep, I was tormented by the aftermath. How could the Temple Mount in the holy city of Jerusalem be relocated to Tel Aviv? How was such a thing possible? Surely a place becomes venerable and sacred over time, imbued with the spirit of its people! What is a place without a past, a tribe without a land, a people without an identity?
I began to panic (now merely dreaming in my sleep) and I felt my heart racing. In bed, I twisted and writhed in an agony of awareness that my world-view and values were crumbling. An image of Jesus appeared before me, whipping the money-changers out of the Temple - only this time he was whipping them out onto the promenade of Tel Aviv, and they were carrying football-shirts, key-rings and DVDs. How had it all come to this? My anguish spiralled upwards.
Struggling to find sense, I suddenly woke again, but this time from real sleep and into real wakefulness where reason and logic (although diminishing) still enjoy currency. And I realised I had been dreaming - double-dreaming, in fact. The Temple Mount was still in Jerusalem. It had been ridiculous to think otherwise. Where else would 3000 years of history be? And then I felt like a fool for believing the absurdities of the dream-world - the dream-world in which black is white and everything is turned upside-down and the wrong way round. Yet it had seemed so real!
Fully awake now and in possession of my senses, it all seemed so clear. How could the Temple Mount - provided to the people as a place of worship, and where the blood, sweat and prayers poured out across generations have consecrated the ground and made hallowed the stones - be relocated from its current place to another without any meaning to its worshippers?
In the real world, such a thing doesn't happen.
Yawn
Double-yawn.
Desktop, the new Temple Mount isn't 'viable' in Jerusalem, don't you know?
Just listened to Brady and Levy being interviewed courtesy of the I player. (Levy @16mins)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00xwk54/Sportsweek_23_01_2011/
West Ham have a waiting list of 17k for Season Tickets?? Bullshit - Mrs Brady needs to check her facts.
Also has anybody seen images of the original legacy stadium that was promised? 25'000 capacity with one roof - some legacy.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/davidbond/2011/01/original_stadium_plan_not_an_o.html
Fingers crossed West Ham become preferred bidder and carry on their merry way to the Championship. And if that happens and staying and building isn't viable for now should we put up Season Ticket prices by 25%-50% and get some extra cash in until it becomes more viable? After all we have the demand. We could also offer more multi ticket packages to ensure the ground sells out for the lesser teams.
Would anybody complain if we stayed and prices went up?
I think 25,000 is fine---it's what we're offering them at Crystal Palace. The thing the athletics people want is the transport links and some respect.
I hope that neither bid is accepted and it does go back to being a 25,000 seater bowl. Why not? Crystal Palace would get a new home, Leyton Orient would remain a viable club, and both Spurs and West Ham would retain their history and traditions.
Spooky, keep up the good work. Desktop.....Superb. Glad to see proper Spurs fans on this site. The plain and simple fact is, to move Spurs away from WHL/N London = the death of Tottenham Hotspur FC. As a Spurs fan I can neither advocate or contemplate the death of my club in pursuit of glory. I am 100% Spurs, not Diet Spurs or Spurs Lite (pro stratford), just 100% Spurs.
brady does talk some complete cr*p at times, if they have 17k waiting for season tickets, why can you still buy half season tickets from their website? maybe they get lots of season ticket returns during the season.
Desktop interesting little read. Although nowhere do you mention that the temple mount was competing with 19 other temple mounts for number 1 temple mount. I do suggest joining us in the real world fella
Just to continue above thread I’m stubbornly bringing up the following . Do the alleged 35k from a waiting list not intend to purchase tickets for West Ham game this very beginning of the week? Especially, they are still available on sale. The waiting list supporters - aren’t they in 100 % One Hotspur Members? Therefore forced to wait until their mates buy ticket for them during a guest day on Jan 26?
As a potential season ticket members are they not interested in watching West Ham although this game is commonly considered as category A fixture? Is it possible this game could be less important for genuine Spurs fan than other encounters of the season? Which ones of the remained matches then, may come up as more desired fixtures? Blackpool, Stoke? Or they just want to make sure now, they will have opportunity to attend Millwall or QPR games next season, provided they are promoted? Are Millwall or QPR more important or excited than West Ham? Or, does the possession of the season ticket not necessarily mean one wants to watch all games of the season at all? In that case what do they need those tickets for?
At the moment I’m under impression that increasing the capacity of the stadium doesn’t have much to do with satisfying present members. Demand is considerable all right. However, in most cases can still be satisfied. Provided you’re a Member. But that’s not a big problem, is it. Has anyone (being the Member) experienced any real problem in getting tickets for any PL game excluding Arsenal? Demand bigger than supply in case of such thing as valuable football club – is it wrong?
I may agree that increasing stadium capacity is essential for club’s revenue. However I think in order to make up spare seats it will be followed with board’s desire to gain completely new fans. Perhaps of slightly different kind than the present ones, who knows. Ones, for instance, who would appreciate comfort of Stratford and at the same time not hark back so annoyingly to WHL history made in N17.
Anyway, figures would clear this issue straight away. So far they have not particularly summed up for me. As Pythagoras claimed all is a number. So would anyone come up with theirs on this to convince the unconvinced.
Sad days ahead. But I think we wont end up in Stratford. Can see us holding off and moving just on the out skirts of North London. Although why we haven't just considered that in the first place I don't know. N17 won't happen as long as Haringey try to fuck us over.
Nthnth, have to agree that this 35k waiting list for season tickets argument is flawed, it's a hyperthetical figure, how many if given the opportunity on 1st July 2011 would actually take up that ticket? Who knows? But you can see why Levy and the boarda are so keen to increase capacity and make the most of that potential 35k's worth of additional season ticket revenue? Even if they sold season tickets to 20k of that 35k, at £1,700 a pop that's an additional £34m revenue every season... how many do they need to sell in order to fill the season ticket quota at either NDP or OS? Add that to the additional corporate box revenue the potential is staggering...
That is exactly what's floating the boat of the board. But surely it's a mutual benefit for the board, the club and the fans? With the Financial Fair Play Regulations coming into place, the higher the revenue the more we can spend on wages, the more we can spend on wages the better squad we will have, the better the squad we have the more chance we have of success, the more success we have, the lesser chance there is of our prized assets having their heads turned.... everyone's happy!
The game against the Spammers will be sold out, although i am surprised there are still tickets available. However, there is no argument that we need a bigger stadium, we do, simple as... the argument is where it'll be.
My biggest fear if NDP becomes our only option, is the financial burden that the development will place upon the club... I hope it doesn't impact our ability to maintain competitiveness on the pitch, without the potential promise of success, our prized assets will inevitably have their heads turned... history has proved this to be the case, the next time it will be in the form of a £100m cheque from the special one :-(
I look back on myself being really happy that we got the Olympics, what a bell-end.
For anyone really believing that the figures quoted for Stratford are "all-in" you are deluded.
West Stand Bagel, the outskirts of North London won't be N17, what's the real difference between an EN postcode and an E postcode... it's still not Tottenham?
If we don't get the OS, it has to be N17! And if it turns out the NDP is simply not viable (as per Levy's commments) then we'll have to start this whole planning process all over again, find another site, revise the plans again, gain approval again, spend another shit load of money in the process and perhaps in four or so year's time we'll be exactly where we are now... waiting on some idiots in that respective London Borough Council to pull their fingers out trying to bend THFC over a barrel, whilst in the meantime the Fair Play rules have battred us into submission and we're back to the mediocrity that it seems a few fans are quite happy to accept as being our lot in life :-(
PLN, that's the problem, no-one's seen any fucking figures? Absolutely no transparency...
'..back to the mediocrity that it seems a few fans are quite happy to accept as being our lot in life..'
I'd rather that, at least it will still be a proper football club.
Some fans want to sell out in return for the vain hope of glory in a corporate theme park.
TMWNN, so you won't be too bothered seeing Bale and Luka in the white colours of Madrid or heaven forbid the red of Manure? It's painful to acknowledge i know but the likelyhood of that happening if we have to redevelop WHL is far greater, this "£450m" has to come from somewhere!
Even if we don't redevelop WHL and keep it as it is, chances are we won't be able to compete financially long term, we're already punching above our weight so the sacrifice will be on the pitch and the quality of squad we can afford, that will affect our ability to compete and it'll be goodbye to the likes of VdV etc... at least we'll still be a proper football club though eh... whatever that means!
BTW, the new WHL will be a corporate theme park...
DY, reason being...... there isnt as big a gap between the 2 projects as Levy wants you to think.
He wants to sell the club, simple as.
Its more attractive to potential buyers in Stratford than in Tottenham.
"Some fans want to sell out in return for the vain hope of glory in a corporate theme park"
Such is the emphasis on winning and dominating. The monster Sky created and such.
PLN if you can prove that that's the case i'll be extremely fucked off... I've been pretty balanced in my posts (apart from the odd post initially :-) ) and have listened to both sides of the argument and at the end of the day i'm prepared to accept that whatever happens it would be in the best interests of the club... but if it turns out that the gap in costs between the 2 projects and the ease at which they can be implemented are similiar, then by choosing the OS Levy is risking taking the heart and soul out of a football club in return for a higher share price... and that my friend is simply not acceptable!
However, I will wait with baited breath to see the facts and figures before passing judgement.
In the meantime, we're still in the dark...
I disagree with you there Spooky, no matter what sport you play, no matter the level, it's not about the taking part, it's all about the glory of winning... although "It is better to be defeated on principle than to win on lies."
DY, I think most fans (me included) are mugs for investing so much time, emotion and money in a game that now exists, in the main, to make businessmen money and/or massage their egos. But at present there is still a link there, however tenuous, to why I started following Tottenham Hotspur in the first place.
Picking the club up and moving it to Stratford to make businessmen more money would break that link. The proverbial straw that broke the camel's back if you like.
If it happens, go to Stratford, I wish you all the success in the world. For me it would be shallow and emotionless.
I just won't recognise that club as Tottenham.
Sky = cunts
Thats all
nthnth - in response to your question above.
In 2006, 20'000 people over subscribed to become Season Ticket holders, so I would say that a lot of people on the list would buy one today given the chance. Not sure when they put the new official list into place but sometime after this anyway. So safe to say 10'000 people would buy a season ticket today, taking into account the current economic situation?
http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/articles/seasonticketssoldout.html
As for the West Ham game, I'll always aim to sit/stand South Upper or Lower, so once they have gone, I have a choice to make. £68 for East Upper when its on TV and and 12.45 kick off?
I'll save the money for the remaining 4 home games thank you very much. Should not be as much as an issue getting tickets where I want them as they are not glamour games. Don't know what that makes me, loyal or disloyal? Or just sensible with my money?
Most season's I end up watching more CAT C than CAT A games - more loyalty points, less money and the seats I want, and I have been going to the Lane for 30 years so I think I can be classed as a supporter rather than a plastic Johnny come lately.
Also do many people go to sit by themselves? A lot of time when it shows tickets available the system is either lying or only one seat is available.
I fully agree that in terms of increased revenue, some bigger capacity will be an important and efficient way to strengthen the budget as DY mentioned before. No doubt. I read Diaz’s explanation too. So I must say my only intention was to examine whether the present THFC fan base, considered as legendary huge, is sufficient to buy up all the season games with ease. Or does the whole matter requires some marketing action to recruit new fans. Whose motivation, by the way, might be some different from the present ones’ having attended matches at the Lane now. Especially as it used to be so easy to call other clubs’ fans some Muppets while they couldn’t produce any noise until they scored for instance.
I recognise Daniel Levy as a businessman in the first place. And as such, I believe, he knows or rather feel better what’s more profitable for his business. If he didn’t he’d be destined for a bankruptcy. The question remains if Stratford move would entirely fulfil the term profitable.
I don’t want to deny that my biggest problem is WHL herself for I’ve always hoped she’d be developed rather than demolished in the future. All this in such a way that may preserve some taste of architecture designed in the early 20th century by Mr Archibald Leitch. Elements of which we can still admire in the ground mind you. So I’ve been a little bit disappointed over a couple past weeks while looking up certain Spurs forums. I’ve found myself under impression that some of the Spurs fans might be kind of embarrassed about the fact that their team play in the ground that doesn’t comply with what is considered modern and fashionable venue. But despite her present technical condition she remains very atmospheric. With the space between players and fans limited to such a small distance that Spurs would never have back if they left WHL. No matter how talented architects the Chairman would employ.
I confirmed before Daniel Levy was extremely ambitious chairman. However it’d be much bigger pleasure call him like this if he found a way to stay in N17. Take effort to develop the organization in such way that two parts of the club’s name would always remain connected: Tottenham and Hotspur. That’d fulfil the meaning of the word ambitious he named himself by too. Especially he would surely face political snags.
I strongly believe that in spite of their international popularity Spurs as a club always need to be identified by its specific place. Now as the club faces prospective success on European field one may be tempted to underrate this issue. However, one day when Champions League’s dream and tour both finally end up we’ll try to recall the old place which by the time won’t have existed.
Above makes less sense if he really wants to sell. But he denied this once again as recent as yesterday. On the other hand, what kind of business man would he be if he didn’t trade.
TMWNN, fair argument and one i can't disagree with.
Good stuff Nthnth, particularly "Or does the whole matter requires some marketing action to recruit new fans." That's the most depressing part, these new fans will be taking the place of some hardcore Spurs fans that categorically won't follow the club east, that's their prerogative but THFC will be all the more poorer for losing them as fans... maybe not in terms of revenue but you know what i mean.
a move might lose some "hard core" fans, but any new fans, johny come lately's, east londoners or whoever should always be welcomed as long as their support is sincere
http://soccerlens.com/afc-wimbledon-quest-for-league-football-grows-ever-closer/27299/
Absorbing read: AFC Wimbledon quest for league football grows ever closer
By Gary Andrews on April 21st, 2009. As AFC Wimbledon fans took in a post-match pint on Saturday, it’s unlikely the hands raising the pint glass had many fingernails left. But Dons fans can now relax somewhat. Bar their promotion rivals Hampton and Richmond Borough going goal crazy on the final day of the season, the fan-owned club is set for a second successive promotion, taking them just one step away from league football.
For fans on non-league, Hampton’s Beveree Stadium was the place to be at the weekend as first traveled to second in the penultimate game of the Blue Square South season. Nothing less than a win would have done for Hampton and for half an hour, after Francis Quarm put the Beavers ahead on 52 minutes, it seemed that the title would go down to the wire.
But with just eight minutes remaining, 33-goal striker Jon Main did what he’s been doing all this season for Wimbledon, and popped up to grab a vital late equaliser to send the traveling support into raptures and, as likely, adding another piece of silverware to the already impressive history of AFC Wimbledon, a club formed out of protest.
Unloved, unwanted and homeless
By now, the story of how Wimbledon were uprooted wholesale to Milton Keynes is written into football folklore and still ranks as one of the most spineless moments in the FA’s history, yet to tell it explains a great deal behind the drive and passion at AFC Wimbledon.
Wimbledon had been homeless since 1991 when then-chairman Sam Hammam moved them out of their old Plough Lane ground and into Selhurst Park as tenants of Crystal Palace. Hammam claimed that this was because the Taylor Report would have reduced Plough Lane’s capacity to 6,000. In reality, the Football League had given them five years to get the ground up to scratch.
Nonetheless, the Dons were now homeless. Hammam again claimed he’d done everything possible to keep the club in Merton but there was nowhere for them to go and the council weren’t willing to help. Needless to say, the Merton Borough Council dispute this version of events.
In 1997, Hammam sold 80% of his stake in Wimbledon to two rich Norwegians, Kjell Inge Rokke and Bjorn Gjelsten. A year later, Hammam sold Plough Lane to supermarket chain Safeway. The exact figure is uncertain, but estimates stand at around £8m, meaning the ex-chairman made a significant profit on the club.
Meanwhile, the Norwegians were coming unstuck. Their original plan had been to tap into the Irish enthusiasm for the Premier League by uprooting the club to Dublin. Fans were up in arms, as were the Irish FA, who blocked the move. The English FA supported their Irish counterparts and the club was left in limbo. A return to Plough Lane was out of the question and there wasn’t enough cash to build a new stadium.
The MK move
Enter, stage left, Pete Winkleman. The music producer had noted that Milton Keynes – a new town born in 1967 – was one of the largest towns in Europe without a professional football club, and had unsuccessfully approached several teams trying to convince them to move to the concrete conurbation (never minding that residents of Milton Keynes had hitherto been uninterested in making a fist of establishing a team in the town).
But for Wimbledon and their new chairman Charles Koppel (appointed by the Norwegians) this presented them with a perfect solution. They had already tried to hawk Wimbledon around as a franchise, so Winkleman’s move made sense.
It took some time for the move to be approved. Fans protested and the Football league initially said no. Koppel appealed and the issue went to an arbitration panel, who handed the problem back to the League, who asked the FA to set up an independent panel to assess the proposed move.
Despite hearing from Merton Borough Council that there was enough space to build a 20,000 seater stadium, the panel voted 2-1 to allow the move, noting that, in their view, it was the only solution to saving Wimbledon. With the deal to move to Milton Keynes done, the club was swiftly dubbed Franchise FC.
Sidenote: As a quick note, Wimbledon weren’t the first club to uproot and move from their community because a chairman scented money. Back in 1913, struggling Woolwich Arsenal were moved from South East London up to Highbury and renamed Arsenal as chairman Henry Norris looked to exploit an the fanbase north of the river.
While preparations were made to move, crowds at Slehurst Park fell drastically for the Wimbledon games, with fans of both Wimbledon and away sides boycotting the games. In 2002 just 849 turned up to watch the Dons play Rotherham.
A year later, the club were playing at the National Hockey Stadium at Milton Keynes and renamed the MK Dons. Wimbledon FC, as a club, was dead.
Rising from the ashes
In South London, meanwhile, the hardcore 4,000 fans had faced up to the prospect of not having a team to support by simply creating their own side: AFC Wimbledon.
Led by Wimbledon Independent Supporters’ Association chair Kris Stewart, the newly formed Wimbledon joined the pyramid at the Combined Counties League level in 2002. Two years after joining, they were promoted to the Isthmian League 1st Division after going the season unbeaten. A year later they were in the Isthmian Premier after a second successive promotion.
The next two seasons saw them push hard for promotion to the Conference South, losing out twice in succession in the playoff semis. Finally, last season, they finished third and finally made it to step two, beating Staines Town in the final.
The difference in quality between the Step Three league and the Conference South isn’t much and AFC Wimbledon, along with big-spending Chelmsford City, who ran away with the Ryman Premier, were expected to push for the playoffs at the very least.
But the two sides went better than the playoffs. Halfway through the season, it seemed it was a two-horse race between the two, but after the Dons defeated Chelmsford in a first vs second clash at Kingsmeadow at the end of January, the Essex side dropped off badly, beset by internal fights. The title, it seemed, was Wimbledon’s to throw away.
Womble wobbles
And throw it away they nearly did (although their wobble has been nowhere near as bad as Burton Albion in the league above). A goalless draw against struggling Havant and Waterlooville set a slight stutter in motion that saw the Dons take just three wins in ten games.
Meanwhile, last season’s defeated playoff finalists Hampton and Richmond Borough hit form at just the right time. Try as they could, Wimbledon just couldn’t make the finish line.
As the season counted down, Hampton moved within three points of AFC, setting the title up for a grandstand finish – the teams were set to play each other in last weekend’s penultimate game of the season.
Wimbledon’s match before that Hampton game – away at Bromley on Easter Monday – came complete with one of those controversial moments that have the potential to win or lose titles.
Leading 2-1 in a tightly fought game, AFC put the ball out of play to treat an injury. From the throw-in, Bromley’s Ryan Hall volleyed the ball back. It was almost certainly unintended but rather than going out for a goal kick, the ball flew into the back of the net. Hall celebrated like he’d socred the goal of his career and the Bromley bench refused to let Wimbledon walk the ball into the back of the net, resulting in angry scenes at the final whistle a few minutes later.
The title decider
The pressure was still on as AFC travelled to Hampton, who were three points behind. The Beavers needed a win to take the title down to the final day, while Wimbledon, who a superior goal difference, needed just a point to be 99% sure of wrapping matters up.
What followed was one of those games full of drama that proves you don’t need the Premier League to get excited about football. Francis Quarm put the home side ahead on 52 minutes and as the minutes ticked by it seemed as if the title could be lost.
And then, with seven minutes left on the clock, another moment of controversy. Two Hampton players collided, one of them, John Scarborough, suffering a serious leg injury in the process.
But the referee waved play on, and Wimbledon threw the ball in close to the stricken Scarborough, the ball’s fizzed across the box and the prolific Jon Main nets the equaliser. Ten minutes later, at full time, AFC fans invaded the pitch in the knowledge that their club had all but sealed promotion to the Conference.
Assuming all goes to plan this weekend, AFC Wimbledon will be one step away from league football, a remarkable achievement in such a short space of time, and ever closer to meeting the MK Dons in a competitive match, although ‘Franchise FC’ could well gain promotion to the Championship this season.
But it’s AFC who have greater claim to the history and connections to the departed original Wimbledon. However, AFC Wimbledon are very much a new club and are already creating their own memories and history. Come 5pm on Saturday, they’ll probably have added another.
Read more: http://soccerlens.com/afc-wimbledon-quest-for-league-football-grows-ever-closer/27299/#ixzz1Bybxoerq
Levy on Sky now stating if we don't move to Stratford we won't be rebuilding WHL?
Is that meant to be a fucking joke or another bluff?
Was that categoric? If so, LEVY OUT!
It's either Stratford or move away from N17. Too expensive to stay there.
If we don't get Stratford, then Levy will have to walk into a meeting with Lammy and Haringey council.
At that point if they think Spurs have no other options, they will politely ask Levy to bend over and then shaft him, and us, with a big smile on their smug "I told you so" faces.
It's just plan C that has been mentioned on here previously................Enfield anybody? How much land have we just bought? 67 acres?
Levy out? Really? Let the man do his job, I think most would agree that since he has been here we have seen improvement on and off the pitch.
I am not going to pretend to know the ins and outs of the Northumberland Project vs. the OS living in the states, but I've been following it as best I can.
I have a question though:
Is Levy's proposal really to completely demolish the OS and build a brand new stadium?
How can that be cheaper than building one right next to WHL?
That seems insane to me.
And why would the local government (i.e. Haringey) get in the way of building a new stadium? How can that not be good for local commerce and economics?
Am I being too logical?